I'm very proud of everyone involved in this discussion so far for remaining topical, polite, and constructive throughout one of the longer threads we've had in a while; well done everyone.
In general I agree with Adrian in that the best way to address any of these is to carefully observe and then record problems we encounter, and only then to start thinking about solutions. In that respect I really like Sam's idea of running an actual survey of visitors, although he says he won't have the time to actually execute it.
Alternatively we could start collecting the topics and arguments raised in this debate and document them somewhere, along with references to specific experiences. Maybe even on the "Broken" wiki page.
Contrary to what has been stated in this thread I _don't_ think that we currently have a good understanding of our actual problems. There are many discussions spread across various media, but as far as I know there's no good general summary. As a result I think most people only have a partial perspective. (I'm certainly in that group.)
> On 24 October 2012 14:31, SamLR <sam.lindenrat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Charles Yarnold <charlesyarn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 24 October 2012 13:32, Martin (Crypt) <crysi...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I have to disagree with this entirely, we are discussing the reason for the rule change, there has to be a reason for the rule change, which this is. There never has been a requirement to be a member, we just strongly encorage it, and from what I've seen this WORKS. As for opening the door, theres nothing forcing you to open the door if you don't want to. If u'r there alone then let the guy freeze ourside if he wants to. Saying you can't be arsed to open the door is a real bullsh*t reason for changing the rules
> Firstly your attitude and swearing (we all know what letter the * is replacing) is very un-awesome to those in this discussion. Please don't do this again or I will place you on moderation. I would ask others not to rise to this.
> Charles, I like you a lot but in what way is Martin's attitude worthy of moderation? So, he said "bullshit" it's by no means the worst I've seen on here and often without threat of moderation.
> I believe that his reply was very rude and likely to cause this to devolve from a meaningful debate.
> Others have been put on moderation lately for such language and I'm happy to do the same again, I agree its been ignored in the past but as a moderator I will be looking to stop this sort of thing on the ML
After soliciting more opinions it seems that several people feel that
they've answered the door more often than they'd like, and that there
are a number of regular visitors who are apparently not members.
So perhaps we have a specific problem to tackle.
We should obviously encourage those regular visitors to join; that's
always been the policy in the space.
So;
If you have specific examples or anti-examples, please speak up.
Specifics, please, not feelings.
If you know of someone regularly using the space, and you're not sure
they're a member, please tackle them about it or bring it to the
attention of the trustees.
If you open the door, please ask the visitor if they're a member. You
don't need to refuse access or make any further comment - just the
reminder is helpful.
We may want to take that a little further and operate a signing-in
book, largely in order to get concrete data about the use for the
space. Opinions about this are welcome (but please accept that a
compromise may be necessary),
Specific examples of what? Non-members causing an issue? The doobell?
Two that I've experienced/witnessed:
1) I've started coming down on Friday nights to avoid the desk scrum and get some work done. One week I had four seperate gaggles of new members approach me and ask me about the space, and I gave them tours. I don't mind giving tours on Tuesdays, but I'd like to be able to sit down and get work done at other times. I'm not enough of a hard ass to tell them to go away, as they have no idea I've aleady done it X times already that night and I don't want to give them the impression we're hostile to new people.
2) Again, on a Friday night Paddy answered the door constantly throughout the evening, and at one point when he (quite cheerfully) asked someone if they were a member he was grunted at and pushed past. Headphones in. Quiet room. End of discussion.
I don't know how to say this without sounding like I'm being elitist or grumpy, so I'll give up and just put this disclaimer. I'm try to not be either of those, I'd just like to be able to work without disruption sometimes and choose when I put energy back into promoting the space on Tuesday nights.
> After soliciting more opinions it seems that several people feel that
> they've answered the door more often than they'd like, and that there
> are a number of regular visitors who are apparently not members.
> So perhaps we have a specific problem to tackle.
> We should obviously encourage those regular visitors to join; that's
> always been the policy in the space.
> So;
> If you have specific examples or anti-examples, please speak up.
> Specifics, please, not feelings.
> If you know of someone regularly using the space, and you're not sure
> they're a member, please tackle them about it or bring it to the
> attention of the trustees.
> If you open the door, please ask the visitor if they're a member. You
> don't need to refuse access or make any further comment - just the
> reminder is helpful.
> We may want to take that a little further and operate a signing-in
> book, largely in order to get concrete data about the use for the
> space. Opinions about this are welcome (but please accept that a
> compromise may be necessary),
Martin (Crypt) wrote:
> a lot of people who I open the door to while in the space are generally members who
> have popped out to smoke or go to the shop
If they actually ARE members then why aren't they using their card instead of making
someone else get up and open the door for them?
I'm a member of the hackspace for 3 months and I was ringing at the door
when it wasn't already opened since until this discussion about members and
non members happened I wasn't even aware that members were supposed to have
an access card. Nobody told me it, so I just assumed that ringing at the
door was the normal procedure.
Fortunately it didn't happen so many times, as I only went to the 3D
Printers and Arduino meetings, and most times the door was already opened
anyway.
Maybe one should send cards by post to new members, so that this doesn't
happen to others.
On 24 October 2012 15:38, Adrian Godwin <artgod...@gmail.com> wrote:
So if someone had answered the door, asked if you were a member, and
then explained how to use a card, you'd have been delighted,
presumably ?
Do you have a card now ?
In case you don't, the procedure is to use your Oyster card (there are
other methods if you don't have one). There's a simple procedure you
can go through using Lovelace, the public terminal, to enable it to
open the door.
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Ulisses Pinto <pinto.ulis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm a member of the hackspace for 3 months and I was ringing at the door
> when it wasn't already opened since until this discussion about members and
> non members happened I wasn't even aware that members were supposed to have
> an access card. Nobody told me it, so I just assumed that ringing at the
> door was the normal procedure.
> Fortunately it didn't happen so many times, as I only went to the 3D
> Printers and Arduino meetings, and most times the door was already opened
> anyway.
> Maybe one should send cards by post to new members, so that this doesn't
> happen to others.
> On 24 October 2012 15:38, Adrian Godwin <artgod...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Nigel Worsley <nig...@googlemail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Martin (Crypt) wrote:
>> >> a lot of people who I open the door to while in the space are generally
>> >> members who
>> >> have popped out to smoke or go to the shop
>> > If they actually ARE members then why aren't they using their card
>> > instead
>> > of making
>> > someone else get up and open the door for them?
>> > Nigle
>> Yes. Again, a problem that can be easily tackled if we know the facts.
Sure, of course I would prefer to use a card if someone explained how to do
so. I never asked anyone to explain me how to get/register a card since I
didn't know I was supposed to have a card in the first place.
The 2 or 3 times someone answered the door, nobody asked me if I was a
member, nor explained how to use a card; they just looked annoyed that I
was interrupting them by ringing the door, but didn't actually say anything.
I don't have a card yet, but it's great to know that one can use an Oyster
card for that. I'll register it tonight.
On 24 October 2012 15:56, Adrian Godwin <artgod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So if someone had answered the door, asked if you were a member, and
> then explained how to use a card, you'd have been delighted,
> presumably ?
> Do you have a card now ?
> In case you don't, the procedure is to use your Oyster card (there are
> other methods if you don't have one). There's a simple procedure you
> can go through using Lovelace, the public terminal, to enable it to
> open the door.
> -adrian
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Ulisses Pinto <pinto.ulis...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I'm a member of the hackspace for 3 months and I was ringing at the door
> > when it wasn't already opened since until this discussion about members
> and
> > non members happened I wasn't even aware that members were supposed to
> have
> > an access card. Nobody told me it, so I just assumed that ringing at the
> > door was the normal procedure.
> > Fortunately it didn't happen so many times, as I only went to the 3D
> > Printers and Arduino meetings, and most times the door was already opened
> > anyway.
> > Maybe one should send cards by post to new members, so that this doesn't
> > happen to others.
> > On 24 October 2012 15:38, Adrian Godwin <artgod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Nigel Worsley <nig...@googlemail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Martin (Crypt) wrote:
> >> >> a lot of people who I open the door to while in the space are
> generally
> >> >> members who
> >> >> have popped out to smoke or go to the shop
> >> > If they actually ARE members then why aren't they using their card
> >> > instead
> >> > of making
> >> > someone else get up and open the door for them?
> >> > Nigle
> >> Yes. Again, a problem that can be easily tackled if we know the facts.
On 24 October 2012 16:10, Ulisses Pinto <pinto.ulis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The 2 or 3 times someone answered the door, nobody asked me if I was a
> member, nor explained how to use a card; they just looked annoyed that I was
> interrupting them by ringing the door, but didn't actually say anything.
I've seen this quite a bit at hackspace whereby the person opening
just walks away, sometimes without saying a word. It is saddening to
wander around and see a lost-looking person just standing around
especially if they've been let in rather than walking in through an
open door. I don't know how to solve this problem, except perhaps for
having a sign on the door telling people how to welcome guests. But
then I've also heard it expressed that there are too many notices
around and so the message is often lost in the noise. Does anyone have
any suggestions? (less flippant than "Learn some social skills!" very
much preferred)
Honestly I would suggest that Tuesday is the day we welcome guests, and
then if you are a member and in the Space you must acknowledge people when
they come in and show them around.
Otherwise we have events and if people are coming to one of those then
again, we welcome them.
The only times other than that people will ring the bell is if an oyster
card is lost or broken as it will be members coming in, or people who have
let us know they are coming by some means or other.
I think that will stop the lost souls and general grump that accompanies
the doorbell!
Simple ways to remedy I think
Noko
On 24 October 2012 16:23, Matt Peperell <mpeper...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 24 October 2012 16:10, Ulisses Pinto <pinto.ulis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The 2 or 3 times someone answered the door, nobody asked me if I was a
> > member, nor explained how to use a card; they just looked annoyed that I
> was
> > interrupting them by ringing the door, but didn't actually say anything.
> I've seen this quite a bit at hackspace whereby the person opening
> just walks away, sometimes without saying a word. It is saddening to
> wander around and see a lost-looking person just standing around
> especially if they've been let in rather than walking in through an
> open door. I don't know how to solve this problem, except perhaps for
> having a sign on the door telling people how to welcome guests. But
> then I've also heard it expressed that there are too many notices
> around and so the message is often lost in the noise. Does anyone have
> any suggestions? (less flippant than "Learn some social skills!" very
> much preferred)
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Ulisses Pinto <pinto.ulis...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Sure, of course I would prefer to use a card if someone explained how to
> do so. I never asked anyone to explain me how to get/register a card since
> I didn't know I was supposed to have a card in the first place.
> The 2 or 3 times someone answered the door, nobody asked me if I was a
> member, nor explained how to use a card; they just looked annoyed that I
> was interrupting them by ringing the door, but didn't actually say anything.
> I don't have a card yet, but it's great to know that one can use an Oyster
> card for that. I'll register it tonight.
this is actually fantastic feedback and exactly why it's good that we
didn't stop at the earlier assertions that "we know the problems"
Actually a short "new members" handbook might be useful, it's great saying
"read the wiki" but unless you know where to look or that there's a page to
find it's not much use.
even just printing out the "Membership" page from the wiki + a few other
things and putting it somewhere clear or handing it out to any new or
prospective members might be good.
> Sure, of course I would prefer to use a card if someone explained how to
> do so. I never asked anyone to explain me how to get/register a card since
> I didn't know I was supposed to have a card in the first place.
> The 2 or 3 times someone answered the door, nobody asked me if I was a
> member, nor explained how to use a card; they just looked annoyed that I
> was interrupting them by ringing the door, but didn't actually say anything.
> I don't have a card yet, but it's great to know that one can use an Oyster
> card for that. I'll register it tonight.
> On 24 October 2012 15:56, Adrian Godwin <artgod...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So if someone had answered the door, asked if you were a member, and
>> then explained how to use a card, you'd have been delighted,
>> presumably ?
>> Do you have a card now ?
>> In case you don't, the procedure is to use your Oyster card (there are
>> other methods if you don't have one). There's a simple procedure you
>> can go through using Lovelace, the public terminal, to enable it to
>> open the door.
>> -adrian
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Ulisses Pinto <pinto.ulis...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I'm a member of the hackspace for 3 months and I was ringing at the door
>> > when it wasn't already opened since until this discussion about members
>> and
>> > non members happened I wasn't even aware that members were supposed to
>> have
>> > an access card. Nobody told me it, so I just assumed that ringing at the
>> > door was the normal procedure.
>> > Fortunately it didn't happen so many times, as I only went to the 3D
>> > Printers and Arduino meetings, and most times the door was already
>> opened
>> > anyway.
>> > Maybe one should send cards by post to new members, so that this doesn't
>> > happen to others.
>> > On 24 October 2012 15:38, Adrian Godwin <artgod...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Nigel Worsley <nig...@googlemail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Martin (Crypt) wrote:
>> >> >> a lot of people who I open the door to while in the space are
>> generally
>> >> >> members who
>> >> >> have popped out to smoke or go to the shop
>> >> > If they actually ARE members then why aren't they using their card
>> >> > instead
>> >> > of making
>> >> > someone else get up and open the door for them?
>> >> > Nigle
>> >> Yes. Again, a problem that can be easily tackled if we know the facts.
On Wednesday, 24 October 2012 16:31:53 UTC+1, David wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Ulisses Pinto <pinto....@gmail.com<javascript:> > > wrote:
>> Sure, of course I would prefer to use a card if someone explained how to >> do so. I never asked anyone to explain me how to get/register a card since >> I didn't know I was supposed to have a card in the first place.
>> The 2 or 3 times someone answered the door, nobody asked me if I was a >> member, nor explained how to use a card; they just looked annoyed that I >> was interrupting them by ringing the door, but didn't actually say anything.
>> I don't have a card yet, but it's great to know that one can use an >> Oyster card for that. I'll register it tonight.
> this is actually fantastic feedback and exactly why it's good that we > didn't stop at the earlier assertions that "we know the problems"
> Actually a short "new members" handbook might be useful, it's great saying > "read the wiki" but unless you know where to look or that there's a page to > find it's not much use.
> even just printing out the "Membership" page from the wiki + a few other > things and putting it somewhere clear or handing it out to any new or > prospective members might be good.
I've been putting off dealing with this thread as I assumed it would
cause me to have some form of embolism, but I have to reiterate
Martind's statement from before: Thank you for a reasoned discussion on
the mailing list. This is actually rather lovely.
The meat of this email is going to address issues brought up in this
thread:
* 1. Making the space members only aside from Tuesdays
As has been brought up by several people in this thread, without stating
exactly the problem it fixes, or how it does so. It can be a few things,
and I suspect they vary amongst the people supporting it:
a) Non-members using the space too much
We're well on the way to implementing access control that limits all the
major facilities to trained members only, or being the direct guest of a member. I have a very strong feeling that this will completely kill any
non-members using the workshop unless they have a member working with
them, which is ideal.
Secondarily we need to be identifying people using the space excessively
and prodding them to become members. Recently people have been getting
in touch with the trustees (thanks!) to let us know about offenders and
they have been warned subsequently. This point is addressed in (c).
b) Non-members are making a mess and not clearing up
AFAIK this is entirely true of members too. Limiting tools prevents
this, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of members seem to like
living in a sty.
c) I hate answering the door all the time
This is three things, firstly we don't channel people towards Tuesday
nights as strongly as a we should, secondly a fair number of members do
not have RFID cards for accessing the space, and thirdly we have some
people who may not be members that need to be encouraged to become
members, either via talking to them directly, or changing the space so
it becomes less useful to non-members.
Note, less useful does not mean members-only. It just means making
elements of the space unavailable without membership or a member who is
feeling generous.
I suspect that this is the primary problem we have right now. It seems
silly, but I totally agree that it can be incredibly irritating.
Without further data this becomes difficult to address, so I am pitching
the idea of attaching a sign-in book to the door. If you let someone in who does not have a card, get them to write their name on the sheet. This allows us to get a rough idea of people making repeat visits, and a rough idea of how many are not members.
* 2. Member tool lockdown (Hey, look, I'm on #2!)
I'm going to outline the current plan for this, as it seems many people
do not understand the situation.
In the very near future we are planning to introduce RFID locks to all
the major tools in the space, starting with the laser cutter and 3-in-1.
These will be linked to your member card, and only members will be able
to use the tools.
- To use a tool, place your card in the RFID box to turn it on.
- When you are done with a tool, take your card out of the RFID box.
By default you will not be allowed to use any of the tools unless you have been trained on it, and your card given access by someone who has
the training bit flipped. This prevents both bad training, and people
who are "really clever" using tools they actually don't know how to
use.
As a secondary, it tells us how often the tool is being used, and if the
tool is damaged (there is a report fault button on the unit) we can ask
the person who was using it before what happened.
I would also like to obtain a small set of lockers to place expensive or
fragile tools/equipment in, mainly to ensure people are using them when
they have been trained. The wood chisels are excellent examples of this.
If you would like to help with this, please get in touch, we need more
people writing code and testing the prototype hardware (which we may
also sell as kits to other spaces).
* 3. New member introductions / Community induction
Right now we are absolutely terrible at bringing new people into the
community and making them aware of how it functions. In this thread we
had a paying member state they didn't know about RFID access, which has
truly hit this home to me.
There is a minimal list of things that need sorting for this:
- A welcome email to be sent to new members, stating how the space runs,
and the rules.
- Ideally a new member manual that can be issued along with this email.
A PDF is fine, but hard-copies in the space would be lovely.
Nottinghack have a beautiful one if you'd like an example of this.
- Every new member should be given a tour of the space by someone, and
this tour should be tailored to the member. Ideally they should be
introduced to people who they share interests with, or people they can
learn from. Right now our tours range from excellent to astonishingly
shocking, I have had to give huge numbers of people a SECOND tour because the first one told them nothing at all and they didn't
understand what was going on.
- So that implies we need an actual tour guide. As in a guide for people
giving tours.
I genuinely think we should limit tour giving to Tuesday nights, unless
the person has made arrangements to come at another time. It's unfair to
impinge on random members when visitors arrive at arbitrary times of the
day. Ideally I'd like to get a list of people up who would like to
introduce people to the space, and get some documentation written up.
Secondly, it is very hard to get help in the space right now. If you're
a new member you have no idea who to approach, and doing so can be a
scary experience. I'd love to get a h...@london.hackspace.org.uk email
address up that fires off to a group of people who are willing to assist
new members.
* 4. Changing the space, talking about the space
I would like to propose monthly state-of-the-space public meetings for
all members, to discuss issues and changes that should be made to the
space. These should possibly not be in the space itself, but that is up
for debate.
We also need to resurrect the weekly news email that goes to every
paying member, it is an excellent way of distributing information about
the space. We need a high-signal communication mechanism with all our
members.
* 5. Moving space
We have plenty of money in the bank to move space, that is not a problem.
The issue is absolutely around finding a suitable space, as we have very
specific requirements. If you can spare time, please help.
* 6. Everything is broken why is nobody fixing it oh god why
Right now we are having serious trouble maintaining the tools and
equipment in the space, mainly because of the sheer amount of use they
get, but secondarily because people don't say anything when the
equipment breaks, and thirdly people don't help to get it repaired.
The space has money to replace equipment, tools and supplies, it just
requires people taking the time to find a suitable replacement and order
it. Sometimes the trustees are incapable of doing this without member
assistance because we lack experience in the area - see the welder
replacement, we're waiting on an OK-GO from the people who use the
welders that the replacement we found is acceptable.
I would really like to see people stepping up and forming small teams
around tools in the space that they use often - we've already seen this
happen with the laser cutter, 3-in-1 and the internet connection.
I would also like to get standing orders in place for consumables that
we burn through each month, such as M4 bolts and welding gas. This just
requires someone taking the time to make a list and find a supplier.
* 7. (Unspoken) The trustees should be banning/warning more people
We agree. We'd really like to be kicking the bottom of anyone who is
causing problems in the space, and we have been frequently doing so in
the last two months.
HOWEVER, we can't do this without members telling us that something is
wrong, or someone is causing problems. We exist to carry out the wishes
of the members, and unless we are informed nothing will happen.
If you see someone abusing the space, or another member, please email
trust...@london.hackspace.org.uk immediately. Do not assume someone else
has done it, they never have.
TL;DR, but please read the email ^^
- I am against making the space members only, as I do not think it will solve any of the problems.
- We should stop giving tours on any day except Tuesday unless we have
an arrangement withe the visitor.
- Most tools are becoming members-only, and I think this will get rid of
the few non-member abusers we have.
- We have a lot of MEMBERS who are abusing the space, and are causing
the majority of the trouble. Please tell the trustees when you see
this happening, or they cannot act to resolve it.
- We need to make the introduction to the space significantly better,
and re-induct everyone on the tools when the member locks go in place.
- We need to make sure every member is aware of the rules, and write a
"how to hackspace" handbook as a reference.
- We need to get the equipment in the space back to a minimum usable
level and maintain it.
- I would like monthly public state-of-the-space meetings.
- We need to bring back the hackspace news email to members.
- We really, really need to move to a bigger space.
I've probably missed some things from the thread. Please bring them up
if you think I should address them.
> If you would like to help with this, please get in touch, we need more
> people writing code and testing the prototype hardware (which we may
> also sell as kits to other spaces).
i would pledge for this in a heartbeat, to use at my space in amsterdam.
On Wednesday, 24 October 2012 09:38:17 UTC+1, David wrote:
> this just strikes me as almost worthy of politicians. There's a > vague possible group of others, people not like us, scroungers who we think > must be **taking advantage of us** somehow. thus we must become more closed > and hostile to outsiders, increase the cost and challenege people to prove > that they're not part of this vague group of scroungers.
I didnt say that or suggest that at all, I certainly didnt mention or imply "scrounging" (an emotive word at the best of times) or suggest "hostility" was the answer. Please re read my post, I was merely summarising what i thought some of the arguments were. (like any good politician)
If the problem of opening the door while working is the lack of will to tour, why don't we record a tour and stick a load of numbered labels around the place? This will at the very least provide a consistency to tours given. Upon opening the door and determining they are new, the member can point to a QR code that can be scanned and the audio tour can begin. The member can return to work, while the visitor tours. I'll make a webpage that looks like a keypad so people can punch in 14 and hear about the lasercutter. If I'm in tomorrow, I'll note down what should be toured. Those wishing to help can write what to say for different rooms/machinery.
I'm still in favour of making visitors wear stickers stating as such. At the very least, a trial of this least drastic measure would help gauge the level of the suggested abuse.
> Ideally a new member manual that can be issued along with this email.
A PDF is fine, but hard-copies in the space would be lovely. Nottinghack have a beautiful one if you'd like an example of this.
I'm happy to volunteer to help in the production of a new member manual as a print ready pdf* although I'd love others to help me with suggestions for the content.
If there are no objections, I'll start a second thread dedicated just to this topic.
If you felt lost when you first joined please go to share anecdotes on the new thread of what you found most confusing.
If you have very strong feelings about what needs to be in the document, please jump in as well.
I'll use the Nottinghack manual as a starting point.
On Wednesday, 24 October 2012 17:01:07 UTC+1, Jonty Wareing wrote: > Afternoon all,
> I've been putting off dealing with this thread as I assumed it would > cause me to have some form of embolism, but I have to reiterate > Martind's statement from before: Thank you for a reasoned discussion on > the mailing list. This is actually rather lovely.
> The meat of this email is going to address issues brought up in this > thread:
> * 1. Making the space members only aside from Tuesdays
> As has been brought up by several people in this thread, without stating > exactly the problem it fixes, or how it does so. It can be a few things, > and I suspect they vary amongst the people supporting it:
> a) Non-members using the space too much
> We're well on the way to implementing access control that limits all the > major facilities to trained members only, or being the direct guest of > a member. I have a very strong feeling that this will completely kill any > non-members using the workshop unless they have a member working with > them, which is ideal.
> Secondarily we need to be identifying people using the space excessively > and prodding them to become members. Recently people have been getting > in touch with the trustees (thanks!) to let us know about offenders and > they have been warned subsequently. This point is addressed in (c).
> b) Non-members are making a mess and not clearing up
> AFAIK this is entirely true of members too. Limiting tools prevents > this, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of members seem to like > living in a sty.
> c) I hate answering the door all the time
> This is three things, firstly we don't channel people towards Tuesday > nights as strongly as a we should, secondly a fair number of members do > not have RFID cards for accessing the space, and thirdly we have some > people who may not be members that need to be encouraged to become > members, either via talking to them directly, or changing the space so > it becomes less useful to non-members.
> Note, less useful does not mean members-only. It just means making > elements of the space unavailable without membership or a member who is > feeling generous.
> I suspect that this is the primary problem we have right now. It seems > silly, but I totally agree that it can be incredibly irritating.
> Without further data this becomes difficult to address, so I am pitching > the idea of attaching a sign-in book to the door. If you let someone in > who does not have a card, get them to write their name on the sheet. > This allows us to get a rough idea of people making repeat visits, and > a rough idea of how many are not members.
> * 2. Member tool lockdown (Hey, look, I'm on #2!)
> I'm going to outline the current plan for this, as it seems many people > do not understand the situation.
> In the very near future we are planning to introduce RFID locks to all > the major tools in the space, starting with the laser cutter and 3-in-1. > These will be linked to your member card, and only members will be able > to use the tools.
> - To use a tool, place your card in the RFID box to turn it on. > - When you are done with a tool, take your card out of the RFID box.
> By default you will not be allowed to use any of the tools unless you > have been trained on it, and your card given access by someone who has > the training bit flipped. This prevents both bad training, and people > who are "really clever" using tools they actually don't know how to > use.
> As a secondary, it tells us how often the tool is being used, and if the > tool is damaged (there is a report fault button on the unit) we can ask > the person who was using it before what happened.
> I would also like to obtain a small set of lockers to place expensive or > fragile tools/equipment in, mainly to ensure people are using them when > they have been trained. The wood chisels are excellent examples of this.
> If you would like to help with this, please get in touch, we need more > people writing code and testing the prototype hardware (which we may > also sell as kits to other spaces).
> * 3. New member introductions / Community induction
> Right now we are absolutely terrible at bringing new people into the > community and making them aware of how it functions. In this thread we > had a paying member state they didn't know about RFID access, which has > truly hit this home to me.
> There is a minimal list of things that need sorting for this:
> - A welcome email to be sent to new members, stating how the space runs, > and the rules. > - Ideally a new member manual that can be issued along with this email. > A PDF is fine, but hard-copies in the space would be lovely. > Nottinghack have a beautiful one if you'd like an example of this. > - Every new member should be given a tour of the space by someone, and > this tour should be tailored to the member. Ideally they should be > introduced to people who they share interests with, or people they can > learn from. Right now our tours range from excellent to astonishingly > shocking, I have had to give huge numbers of people a SECOND tour > because the first one told them nothing at all and they didn't > understand what was going on. > - So that implies we need an actual tour guide. As in a guide for people > giving tours.
> I genuinely think we should limit tour giving to Tuesday nights, unless > the person has made arrangements to come at another time. It's unfair to > impinge on random members when visitors arrive at arbitrary times of the > day. Ideally I'd like to get a list of people up who would like to > introduce people to the space, and get some documentation written up.
> Secondly, it is very hard to get help in the space right now. If you're > a new member you have no idea who to approach, and doing so can be a > scary experience. I'd love to get a he...@london.hackspace.org.uk<javascript:>email > address up that fires off to a group of people who are willing to assist > new members.
> * 4. Changing the space, talking about the space
> I would like to propose monthly state-of-the-space public meetings for > all members, to discuss issues and changes that should be made to the > space. These should possibly not be in the space itself, but that is up > for debate.
> We also need to resurrect the weekly news email that goes to every > paying member, it is an excellent way of distributing information about > the space. We need a high-signal communication mechanism with all our > members.
> * 5. Moving space
> We have plenty of money in the bank to move space, that is not a problem. > The issue is absolutely around finding a suitable space, as we have very > specific requirements. If you can spare time, please help.
> * 6. Everything is broken why is nobody fixing it oh god why
> Right now we are having serious trouble maintaining the tools and > equipment in the space, mainly because of the sheer amount of use they > get, but secondarily because people don't say anything when the > equipment breaks, and thirdly people don't help to get it repaired.
> The space has money to replace equipment, tools and supplies, it just > requires people taking the time to find a suitable replacement and order > it. Sometimes the trustees are incapable of doing this without member > assistance because we lack experience in the area - see the welder > replacement, we're waiting on an OK-GO from the people who use the > welders that the replacement we found is acceptable.
> I would really like to see people stepping up and forming small teams > around tools in the space that they use often - we've already seen this > happen with the laser cutter, 3-in-1 and the internet connection.
> I would also like to get standing orders in place for consumables that > we burn through each month, such as M4 bolts and welding gas. This just > requires someone taking the time to make a list and find a supplier.
> * 7. (Unspoken) The trustees should be banning/warning more people
> We agree. We'd really like to be kicking the bottom of anyone who is > causing problems in the space, and we have been frequently doing so in > the last two months.
> HOWEVER, we can't do this without members telling us that something is > wrong, or someone is causing problems. We exist to carry out the wishes > of the members, and unless we are informed nothing will happen.
> If you see someone abusing the space, or another member, please email > trus...@london.hackspace.org.uk <javascript:> immediately. Do not assume > someone else > has done it, they never have.
> TL;DR, but please read the email ^^
> - I am against making the space members only, as I do not think it will > solve any of the problems.
> - We should stop giving tours on any day except Tuesday unless we have > an arrangement withe the visitor.
> - Most tools are becoming members-only, and I think this will get rid of > the few non-member abusers we have.
Akki, sorry missed your post - I don't want to step on your toes so please don't let me and take this over or invite me to work with you as you prefer :)
On Wednesday, 24 October 2012 20:07:17 UTC+1, Tim Hardy wrote:
> > Ideally a new member manual that can be issued along with this email. > A PDF is fine, but hard-copies in the space would be lovely. > Nottinghack have a beautiful one if you'd like an example of this.
> I'm happy to volunteer to help in the production of a new member manual as > a print ready pdf* although I'd love others to help me with suggestions for > the content.
> If there are no objections, I'll start a second thread dedicated just to > this topic.
> If you felt lost when you first joined please go to share anecdotes on the > new thread of what you found most confusing.
> If you have very strong feelings about what needs to be in the document, > please jump in as well.
> I'll use the Nottinghack manual as a starting point.
> (* happy to use produce formats too like epub)
> On Wednesday, 24 October 2012 17:01:07 UTC+1, Jonty Wareing wrote:
>> Afternoon all,
>> I've been putting off dealing with this thread as I assumed it would >> cause me to have some form of embolism, but I have to reiterate >> Martind's statement from before: Thank you for a reasoned discussion on >> the mailing list. This is actually rather lovely.
>> The meat of this email is going to address issues brought up in this >> thread:
>> * 1. Making the space members only aside from Tuesdays
>> As has been brought up by several people in this thread, without stating >> exactly the problem it fixes, or how it does so. It can be a few things, >> and I suspect they vary amongst the people supporting it:
>> a) Non-members using the space too much
>> We're well on the way to implementing access control that limits all the >> major facilities to trained members only, or being the direct guest of >> a member. I have a very strong feeling that this will completely kill any >> non-members using the workshop unless they have a member working with >> them, which is ideal.
>> Secondarily we need to be identifying people using the space excessively >> and prodding them to become members. Recently people have been getting >> in touch with the trustees (thanks!) to let us know about offenders and >> they have been warned subsequently. This point is addressed in (c).
>> b) Non-members are making a mess and not clearing up
>> AFAIK this is entirely true of members too. Limiting tools prevents >> this, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of members seem to like >> living in a sty.
>> c) I hate answering the door all the time
>> This is three things, firstly we don't channel people towards Tuesday >> nights as strongly as a we should, secondly a fair number of members do >> not have RFID cards for accessing the space, and thirdly we have some >> people who may not be members that need to be encouraged to become >> members, either via talking to them directly, or changing the space so >> it becomes less useful to non-members.
>> Note, less useful does not mean members-only. It just means making >> elements of the space unavailable without membership or a member who is >> feeling generous.
>> I suspect that this is the primary problem we have right now. It seems >> silly, but I totally agree that it can be incredibly irritating.
>> Without further data this becomes difficult to address, so I am pitching >> the idea of attaching a sign-in book to the door. If you let someone in >> who does not have a card, get them to write their name on the sheet. >> This allows us to get a rough idea of people making repeat visits, and >> a rough idea of how many are not members.
>> * 2. Member tool lockdown (Hey, look, I'm on #2!)
>> I'm going to outline the current plan for this, as it seems many people >> do not understand the situation.
>> In the very near future we are planning to introduce RFID locks to all >> the major tools in the space, starting with the laser cutter and 3-in-1. >> These will be linked to your member card, and only members will be able >> to use the tools.
>> - To use a tool, place your card in the RFID box to turn it on. >> - When you are done with a tool, take your card out of the RFID box.
>> By default you will not be allowed to use any of the tools unless you >> have been trained on it, and your card given access by someone who has >> the training bit flipped. This prevents both bad training, and people >> who are "really clever" using tools they actually don't know how to >> use.
>> As a secondary, it tells us how often the tool is being used, and if the >> tool is damaged (there is a report fault button on the unit) we can ask >> the person who was using it before what happened.
>> I would also like to obtain a small set of lockers to place expensive or >> fragile tools/equipment in, mainly to ensure people are using them when >> they have been trained. The wood chisels are excellent examples of this.
>> If you would like to help with this, please get in touch, we need more >> people writing code and testing the prototype hardware (which we may >> also sell as kits to other spaces).
>> * 3. New member introductions / Community induction
>> Right now we are absolutely terrible at bringing new people into the >> community and making them aware of how it functions. In this thread we >> had a paying member state they didn't know about RFID access, which has >> truly hit this home to me.
>> There is a minimal list of things that need sorting for this:
>> - A welcome email to be sent to new members, stating how the space runs, >> and the rules. >> - Ideally a new member manual that can be issued along with this email. >> A PDF is fine, but hard-copies in the space would be lovely. >> Nottinghack have a beautiful one if you'd like an example of this. >> - Every new member should be given a tour of the space by someone, and >> this tour should be tailored to the member. Ideally they should be >> introduced to people who they share interests with, or people they can >> learn from. Right now our tours range from excellent to astonishingly >> shocking, I have had to give huge numbers of people a SECOND tour >> because the first one told them nothing at all and they didn't >> understand what was going on. >> - So that implies we need an actual tour guide. As in a guide for people >> giving tours.
>> I genuinely think we should limit tour giving to Tuesday nights, unless >> the person has made arrangements to come at another time. It's unfair to >> impinge on random members when visitors arrive at arbitrary times of the >> day. Ideally I'd like to get a list of people up who would like to >> introduce people to the space, and get some documentation written up.
>> Secondly, it is very hard to get help in the space right now. If you're >> a new member you have no idea who to approach, and doing so can be a >> scary experience. I'd love to get a he...@london.hackspace.org.uk email >> address up that fires off to a group of people who are willing to assist >> new members.
>> * 4. Changing the space, talking about the space
>> I would like to propose monthly state-of-the-space public meetings for >> all members, to discuss issues and changes that should be made to the >> space. These should possibly not be in the space itself, but that is up >> for debate.
>> We also need to resurrect the weekly news email that goes to every >> paying member, it is an excellent way of distributing information about >> the space. We need a high-signal communication mechanism with all our >> members.
>> * 5. Moving space
>> We have plenty of money in the bank to move space, that is not a problem. >> The issue is absolutely around finding a suitable space, as we have very >> specific requirements. If you can spare time, please help.
>> * 6. Everything is broken why is nobody fixing it oh god why
>> Right now we are having serious trouble maintaining the tools and >> equipment in the space, mainly because of the sheer amount of use they >> get, but secondarily because people don't say anything when the >> equipment breaks, and thirdly people don't help to get it repaired.
>> The space has money to replace equipment, tools and supplies, it just >> requires people taking the time to find a suitable replacement and order >> it. Sometimes the trustees are incapable of doing this without member >> assistance because we lack experience in the area - see the welder >> replacement, we're waiting on an OK-GO from the people who use the >> welders that the replacement we found is acceptable.
>> I would really like to see people stepping up and forming small teams >> around tools in the space that they use often - we've already seen this >> happen with the laser cutter, 3-in-1 and the internet connection.
>> I would also like to get standing orders in place for consumables that >> we burn through each month, such as M4 bolts and welding gas. This just >> requires someone taking the time to make a list and find a supplier.
>> * 7. (Unspoken) The trustees should be banning/warning more people
>> We agree. We'd really like to be kicking the bottom of anyone who is >> causing problems in the space, and we have been frequently doing so in >> the last two months.
>> HOWEVER, we can't do this without members telling us that something is >> wrong, or someone is causing problems. We exist to carry out the wishes >> of the members, and unless we are informed nothing will happen.
>> If you see someone abusing the space, or another member, please email >> trus...@london.hackspace.org.uk immediately. Do not assume someone else >> has done it, they
On 24 October 2012 17:00, Jonty Wareing <jo...@jonty.co.uk> wrote:
> Right now we are absolutely terrible at bringing new people into the
> community and making them aware of how it functions. In this thread we
> had a paying member state they didn't know about RFID access, which has
> truly hit this home to me.
As an aside it may be worth reiterating what a 'member' is in
hackspace terms for those people who may not be aware.
You are NOT (necessarily) a member if:
* You are on this mailing list
* You have signed up for a wiki account/put your profile on the members page
* You have been on the IRC channel
* You have a hackspace.org.uk account
* You have been trained on the laser cutter
* You turn up every week
* You pay money to other groups (biohacking?)
* You really helped someone/the space out on $thing
* And many other things...
You are ONLY a member if:
* You have a hackspace.org.uk account and have set up a standing order
with the correct reference and logging into that site shows your
payments and your name appears in that members list
This isn't meant to pick on anyone. It is purely for clarity.
I put it on the wiki 4-5 months ago in the hopes that people would work on it. That's what wikis are for - to evolve. Please feel free to work on it and make it come to fruition. ~Akki
On Wednesday, 24 October 2012 20:15:08 UTC+1, Tim Hardy wrote:
> Akki, sorry missed your post - I don't want to step on your toes so please > don't let me and take this over or invite me to work with you as you prefer > :)
> On Wednesday, 24 October 2012 20:07:17 UTC+1, Tim Hardy wrote:
>> > Ideally a new member manual that can be issued along with this email. >> A PDF is fine, but hard-copies in the space would be lovely. >> Nottinghack have a beautiful one if you'd like an example of this.
>> I'm happy to volunteer to help in the production of a new member manual >> as a print ready pdf* although I'd love others to help me with suggestions >> for the content.
>> If there are no objections, I'll start a second thread dedicated just to >> this topic.
>> If you felt lost when you first joined please go to share anecdotes on >> the new thread of what you found most confusing.
>> If you have very strong feelings about what needs to be in the document, >> please jump in as well.
>> I'll use the Nottinghack manual as a starting point.
>> (* happy to use produce formats too like epub)
>> On Wednesday, 24 October 2012 17:01:07 UTC+1, Jonty Wareing wrote:
>>> Afternoon all,
>>> I've been putting off dealing with this thread as I assumed it would >>> cause me to have some form of embolism, but I have to reiterate >>> Martind's statement from before: Thank you for a reasoned discussion on >>> the mailing list. This is actually rather lovely.
>>> The meat of this email is going to address issues brought up in this >>> thread:
>>> * 1. Making the space members only aside from Tuesdays
>>> As has been brought up by several people in this thread, without stating >>> exactly the problem it fixes, or how it does so. It can be a few things, >>> and I suspect they vary amongst the people supporting it:
>>> a) Non-members using the space too much
>>> We're well on the way to implementing access control that limits all the >>> major facilities to trained members only, or being the direct guest of >>> a member. I have a very strong feeling that this will completely kill >>> any >>> non-members using the workshop unless they have a member working with >>> them, which is ideal.
>>> Secondarily we need to be identifying people using the space excessively >>> and prodding them to become members. Recently people have been getting >>> in touch with the trustees (thanks!) to let us know about offenders and >>> they have been warned subsequently. This point is addressed in (c).
>>> b) Non-members are making a mess and not clearing up
>>> AFAIK this is entirely true of members too. Limiting tools prevents >>> this, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of members seem to like >>> living in a sty.
>>> c) I hate answering the door all the time
>>> This is three things, firstly we don't channel people towards Tuesday >>> nights as strongly as a we should, secondly a fair number of members do >>> not have RFID cards for accessing the space, and thirdly we have some >>> people who may not be members that need to be encouraged to become >>> members, either via talking to them directly, or changing the space so >>> it becomes less useful to non-members.
>>> Note, less useful does not mean members-only. It just means making >>> elements of the space unavailable without membership or a member who is >>> feeling generous.
>>> I suspect that this is the primary problem we have right now. It seems >>> silly, but I totally agree that it can be incredibly irritating.
>>> Without further data this becomes difficult to address, so I am pitching >>> the idea of attaching a sign-in book to the door. If you let someone in >>> who does not have a card, get them to write their name on the sheet. >>> This allows us to get a rough idea of people making repeat visits, and >>> a rough idea of how many are not members.
>>> * 2. Member tool lockdown (Hey, look, I'm on #2!)
>>> I'm going to outline the current plan for this, as it seems many people >>> do not understand the situation.
>>> In the very near future we are planning to introduce RFID locks to all >>> the major tools in the space, starting with the laser cutter and 3-in-1. >>> These will be linked to your member card, and only members will be able >>> to use the tools.
>>> - To use a tool, place your card in the RFID box to turn it on. >>> - When you are done with a tool, take your card out of the RFID box.
>>> By default you will not be allowed to use any of the tools unless you >>> have been trained on it, and your card given access by someone who has >>> the training bit flipped. This prevents both bad training, and people >>> who are "really clever" using tools they actually don't know how to >>> use.
>>> As a secondary, it tells us how often the tool is being used, and if the >>> tool is damaged (there is a report fault button on the unit) we can ask >>> the person who was using it before what happened.
>>> I would also like to obtain a small set of lockers to place expensive or >>> fragile tools/equipment in, mainly to ensure people are using them when >>> they have been trained. The wood chisels are excellent examples of this.
>>> If you would like to help with this, please get in touch, we need more >>> people writing code and testing the prototype hardware (which we may >>> also sell as kits to other spaces).
>>> * 3. New member introductions / Community induction
>>> Right now we are absolutely terrible at bringing new people into the >>> community and making them aware of how it functions. In this thread we >>> had a paying member state they didn't know about RFID access, which has >>> truly hit this home to me.
>>> There is a minimal list of things that need sorting for this:
>>> - A welcome email to be sent to new members, stating how the space runs, >>> and the rules. >>> - Ideally a new member manual that can be issued along with this email. >>> A PDF is fine, but hard-copies in the space would be lovely. >>> Nottinghack have a beautiful one if you'd like an example of this. >>> - Every new member should be given a tour of the space by someone, and >>> this tour should be tailored to the member. Ideally they should be >>> introduced to people who they share interests with, or people they can >>> learn from. Right now our tours range from excellent to astonishingly >>> shocking, I have had to give huge numbers of people a SECOND tour >>> because the first one told them nothing at all and they didn't >>> understand what was going on. >>> - So that implies we need an actual tour guide. As in a guide for people >>> giving tours.
>>> I genuinely think we should limit tour giving to Tuesday nights, unless >>> the person has made arrangements to come at another time. It's unfair to >>> impinge on random members when visitors arrive at arbitrary times of the >>> day. Ideally I'd like to get a list of people up who would like to >>> introduce people to the space, and get some documentation written up.
>>> Secondly, it is very hard to get help in the space right now. If you're >>> a new member you have no idea who to approach, and doing so can be a >>> scary experience. I'd love to get a he...@london.hackspace.org.uk email >>> address up that fires off to a group of people who are willing to assist >>> new members.
>>> * 4. Changing the space, talking about the space
>>> I would like to propose monthly state-of-the-space public meetings for >>> all members, to discuss issues and changes that should be made to the >>> space. These should possibly not be in the space itself, but that is up >>> for debate.
>>> We also need to resurrect the weekly news email that goes to every >>> paying member, it is an excellent way of distributing information about >>> the space. We need a high-signal communication mechanism with all our >>> members.
>>> * 5. Moving space
>>> We have plenty of money in the bank to move space, that is not a >>> problem. >>> The issue is absolutely around finding a suitable space, as we have very >>> specific requirements. If you can spare time, please help.
>>> * 6. Everything is broken why is nobody fixing it oh god why
>>> Right now we are having serious trouble maintaining the tools and >>> equipment in the space, mainly because of the sheer amount of use they >>> get, but secondarily because people don't say anything when the >>> equipment breaks, and thirdly people don't help to get it repaired.
>>> The space has money to replace equipment, tools and supplies, it just >>> requires people taking the time to find a suitable replacement and order >>> it. Sometimes the trustees are incapable of doing this without member >>> assistance because we lack experience in the area - see the welder >>> replacement, we're waiting on an OK-GO from the people who use the >>> welders that the replacement we found is acceptable.
>>> I would really like to see people stepping up and forming small teams >>> around tools in the space that they use often - we've already seen this >>> happen with the laser cutter, 3-in-1 and the internet connection.
>>> I would also like to get standing orders in place for consumables that >>> we burn through each month, such as M4 bolts and welding gas. This just >>> requires someone taking the time to make a list and find a supplier.
>>> * 7. (Unspoken) The trustees should be banning/warning more people
>>> We agree. We'd really like to be kicking the bottom of anyone who is >>> causing problems in the
> I've been putting off dealing with this thread as I assumed it would
> cause me to have some form of embolism, but I have to reiterate
> Martind's statement from before: Thank you for a reasoned discussion on
> the mailing list. This is actually rather lovely.
> The meat of this email is going to address issues brought up in this
> thread:
> * 1. Making the space members only aside from Tuesdays
> As has been brought up by several people in this thread, without stating
> exactly the problem it fixes, or how it does so. It can be a few things,
> and I suspect they vary amongst the people supporting it:
> a) Non-members using the space too much
> We're well on the way to implementing access control that limits all the
> major facilities to trained members only, or being the direct guest of
> a member. I have a very strong feeling that this will completely kill any
> non-members using the workshop unless they have a member working with
> them, which is ideal.
> Secondarily we need to be identifying people using the space excessively
> and prodding them to become members. Recently people have been getting
> in touch with the trustees (thanks!) to let us know about offenders and
> they have been warned subsequently. This point is addressed in (c).
> b) Non-members are making a mess and not clearing up
> AFAIK this is entirely true of members too. Limiting tools prevents
> this, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of members seem to like
> living in a sty.
> c) I hate answering the door all the time
> This is three things, firstly we don't channel people towards Tuesday
> nights as strongly as a we should, secondly a fair number of members do
> not have RFID cards for accessing the space, and thirdly we have some
> people who may not be members that need to be encouraged to become
> members, either via talking to them directly, or changing the space so
> it becomes less useful to non-members.
> Note, less useful does not mean members-only. It just means making
> elements of the space unavailable without membership or a member who is
> feeling generous.
> I suspect that this is the primary problem we have right now. It seems
> silly, but I totally agree that it can be incredibly irritating.
> Without further data this becomes difficult to address, so I am pitching
> the idea of attaching a sign-in book to the door. If you let someone in
> who does not have a card, get them to write their name on the sheet.
> This allows us to get a rough idea of people making repeat visits, and
> a rough idea of how many are not members.
> * 2. Member tool lockdown (Hey, look, I'm on #2!)
> I'm going to outline the current plan for this, as it seems many people
> do not understand the situation.
> In the very near future we are planning to introduce RFID locks to all
> the major tools in the space, starting with the laser cutter and 3-in-1.
> These will be linked to your member card, and only members will be able
> to use the tools.
> - To use a tool, place your card in the RFID box to turn it on.
> - When you are done with a tool, take your card out of the RFID box.
> By default you will not be allowed to use any of the tools unless you
> have been trained on it, and your card given access by someone who has
> the training bit flipped. This prevents both bad training, and people
> who are "really clever" using tools they actually don't know how to
> use.
> As a secondary, it tells us how often the tool is being used, and if the
> tool is damaged (there is a report fault button on the unit) we can ask
> the person who was using it before what happened.
> I would also like to obtain a small set of lockers to place expensive or
> fragile tools/equipment in, mainly to ensure people are using them when
> they have been trained. The wood chisels are excellent examples of this.
> If you would like to help with this, please get in touch, we need more
> people writing code and testing the prototype hardware (which we may
> also sell as kits to other spaces).
> * 3. New member introductions / Community induction
> Right now we are absolutely terrible at bringing new people into the
> community and making them aware of how it functions. In this thread we
> had a paying member state they didn't know about RFID access, which has
> truly hit this home to me.
> There is a minimal list of things that need sorting for this:
> - A welcome email to be sent to new members, stating how the space runs,
> and the rules.
> - Ideally a new member manual that can be issued along with this email.
> A PDF is fine, but hard-copies in the space would be lovely.
> Nottinghack have a beautiful one if you'd like an example of this.
> - Every new member should be given a tour of the space by someone, and
> this tour should be tailored to the member. Ideally they should be
> introduced to people who they share interests with, or people they can
> learn from. Right now our tours range from excellent to astonishingly
> shocking, I have had to give huge numbers of people a SECOND tour
> because the first one told them nothing at all and they didn't
> understand what was going on.
> - So that implies we need an actual tour guide. As in a guide for people
> giving tours.
> I genuinely think we should limit tour giving to Tuesday nights, unless
> the person has made arrangements to come at another time. It's unfair to
> impinge on random members when visitors arrive at arbitrary times of the
> day. Ideally I'd like to get a list of people up who would like to
> introduce people to the space, and get some documentation written up.
> Secondly, it is very hard to get help in the space right now. If you're
> a new member you have no idea who to approach, and doing so can be a
> scary experience. I'd love to get a h...@london.hackspace.org.uk email
> address up that fires off to a group of people who are willing to assist
> new members.
> * 4. Changing the space, talking about the space
> I would like to propose monthly state-of-the-space public meetings for
> all members, to discuss issues and changes that should be made to the
> space. These should possibly not be in the space itself, but that is up
> for debate.
> We also need to resurrect the weekly news email that goes to every
> paying member, it is an excellent way of distributing information about
> the space. We need a high-signal communication mechanism with all our
> members.
> * 5. Moving space
> We have plenty of money in the bank to move space, that is not a problem.
> The issue is absolutely around finding a suitable space, as we have very
> specific requirements. If you can spare time, please help.
> * 6. Everything is broken why is nobody fixing it oh god why
> Right now we are having serious trouble maintaining the tools and
> equipment in the space, mainly because of the sheer amount of use they
> get, but secondarily because people don't say anything when the
> equipment breaks, and thirdly people don't help to get it repaired.
> The space has money to replace equipment, tools and supplies, it just
> requires people taking the time to find a suitable replacement and order
> it. Sometimes the trustees are incapable of doing this without member
> assistance because we lack experience in the area - see the welder
> replacement, we're waiting on an OK-GO from the people who use the
> welders that the replacement we found is acceptable.
> I would really like to see people stepping up and forming small teams
> around tools in the space that they use often - we've already seen this
> happen with the laser cutter, 3-in-1 and the internet connection.
> I would also like to get standing orders in place for consumables that
> we burn through each month, such as M4 bolts and welding gas. This just
> requires someone taking the time to make a list and find a supplier.
> * 7. (Unspoken) The trustees should be banning/warning more people
> We agree. We'd really like to be kicking the bottom of anyone who is
> causing problems in the space, and we have been frequently doing so in
> the last two months.
> HOWEVER, we can't do this without members telling us that something is
> wrong, or someone is causing problems. We exist to carry out the wishes
> of the members, and unless we are informed nothing will happen.
> If you see someone abusing the space, or another member, please email
> trust...@london.hackspace.org.uk immediately. Do not assume someone else
> has done it, they never have.
> TL;DR, but please read the email ^^
> - I am against making the space members only, as I do not think it will
> solve any of the problems.
> - We should stop giving tours on any day except Tuesday unless we have
> an arrangement withe the visitor.
> - Most tools are becoming members-only, and I think this will get rid of
> the few non-member abusers we have.
> - We have a lot of MEMBERS who are abusing the space, and are causing
> the majority of the trouble. Please tell the trustees when you see
> this happening, or they cannot act to resolve it.
> - We need to make the introduction to the space significantly better,
> and re-induct everyone on the tools when the member locks go in place.
> - We need to make sure every member is aware of the rules, and write a
> "how to hackspace" handbook as a reference.
> - We need to get the equipment in the space back to a minimum usable
> level and maintain it.
> - I would like monthly public state-of-the-space meetings.
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 5:55 PM, Geekinesis <geekine...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> I didnt say that or suggest that at all, I certainly didnt mention or
> imply "scrounging" (an emotive word at the best of times) or suggest
> "hostility" was the answer. Please re read my post, I was merely
> summarising what i thought some of the arguments were. (like any good
> politician)
Sorry, I wasn't aiming it at you, I did recognise yours as a summary. I
just didn't like the way the thread was going and your post did summarise
well. I was getting the same feeling reading some of the longer messages as
I do when reading newspaper quotes from certain politicians.
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 5:55 PM, Geekinesis <geekine...@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>> I didnt say that or suggest that at all, I certainly didnt mention or
>> imply "scrounging" (an emotive word at the best of times) or suggest
>> "hostility" was the answer. Please re read my post, I was merely
>> summarising what i thought some of the arguments were. (like any good
>> politician)
> Sorry, I wasn't aiming it at you, I did recognise yours as a summary. I just
> didn't like the way the thread was going and your post did summarise well. I
> was getting the same feeling reading some of the longer messages as I do
> when reading newspaper quotes from certain politicians.
