There has been mention of 42 North Road as a possible location for the next Hackspace
I currently rent an office at 39A North Road which is adjacent to 42 so I've taken a few photographs. The post code is N7 9DP and the site is next door to Caledonian Road Underground Station on the Picaddilly line (Zone 2)
Number 42 was formerly used as a commercial garage (think QuickFit or similar), it's a huge space - about 15,000 square feet and not in good condition. Access is very easy and parking is reasonable with pay and display bays outside the building between 9:30 and 4:30 Monday to Friday. Outside these hours parking is free
I think it's a great space but I'm not sure it would be suitable as the next Hackspace without a lot of work
> There has been mention of 42 North Road as a possible location for the
> next Hackspace
> I currently rent an office at 39A North Road which is adjacent to 42 so
> I've taken a few photographs. The post code is N7 9DP and the site is next
> door to Caledonian Road Underground Station on the Picaddilly line (Zone 2)
> Number 42 was formerly used as a commercial garage (think QuickFit or
> similar), it's a huge space - about 15,000 square feet and not in good
> condition. Access is very easy and parking is reasonable with pay and
> display bays outside the building between 9:30 and 4:30 Monday to Friday.
> Outside these hours parking is free
> I think it's a great space but I'm not sure it would be suitable as the
> next Hackspace without a lot of work
It's got generally better communications though - underground, overground,
King's Cross, and leaves the A1 a little north of the worst congestion.
Probably no help to drivers from any other direction but may not be worse.
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Simon Howes
<simonhowes...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> Its pretty far from the current space though...
> On Oct 10, 2012 10:51 AM, "Ian Henderson" <i...@advancedforensics.com>
> wrote:
>> There has been mention of 42 North Road as a possible location for the
>> next Hackspace
>> I currently rent an office at 39A North Road which is adjacent to 42 so
>> I've taken a few photographs. The post code is N7 9DP and the site is next
>> door to Caledonian Road Underground Station on the Picaddilly line (Zone 2)
>> Number 42 was formerly used as a commercial garage (think QuickFit or
>> similar), it's a huge space - about 15,000 square feet and not in good
>> condition. Access is very easy and parking is reasonable with pay and
>> display bays outside the building between 9:30 and 4:30 Monday to Friday.
>> Outside these hours parking is free
>> I think it's a great space but I'm not sure it would be suitable as the
>> next Hackspace without a lot of work
Will say it'll be f**king cold in winter though. Offices don't look huge, so probably need something portacabin-esque arrangement in there to replicate an "indoor" environment like the current main room.
> There has been mention of 42 North Road as a possible location for the
> next Hackspace
> I currently rent an office at 39A North Road which is adjacent to 42 so
> I've taken a few photographs. The post code is N7 9DP and the site is
> next door to Caledonian Road Underground Station on the Picaddilly line
> (Zone 2)
> Number 42 was formerly used as a commercial garage (think QuickFit or
> similar), it's a huge space - about 15,000 square feet and not in good
> condition. Access is very easy and parking is reasonable with pay and
> display bays outside the building between 9:30 and 4:30 Monday to
> Friday. Outside these hours parking is free
> I think it's a great space but I'm not sure it would be suitable as the
> next Hackspace without a lot of work
On 10 October 2012 10:51, Ian Henderson <i...@advancedforensics.com> wrote:
> I think it's a great space but I'm not sure it would be suitable as the
> next Hackspace without a lot of work
> Here are a few photographs:
Thanks!
It does look like an awesome space but I agree it's almost certainly
out of our budget to even start refurbishing unless we can drum up at
least an extra £50k.
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Russ Garrett <r...@garrett.co.uk> wrote:
> On 10 October 2012 10:51, Ian Henderson <i...@advancedforensics.com> wrote:
>> I think it's a great space but I'm not sure it would be suitable as the
>> next Hackspace without a lot of work
>> Here are a few photographs:
> Thanks!
> It does look like an awesome space but I agree it's almost certainly
> out of our budget to even start refurbishing unless we can drum up at
> least an extra £50k.
Maybe that's the sort of thing that would qualify for a grant.
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Russ Garrett <r...@garrett.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 10 October 2012 10:51, Ian Henderson <i...@advancedforensics.com> wrote:
>>> I think it's a great space but I'm not sure it would be suitable as the
>>> next Hackspace without a lot of work
>>> Here are a few photographs:
>> Thanks!
>> It does look like an awesome space but I agree it's almost certainly
>> out of our budget to even start refurbishing unless we can drum up at
>> least an extra £50k.
> Maybe that's the sort of thing that would qualify for a grant.
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Benjamin Blundell <onida...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 50k eh? Time for a fundraiser! :D
> B
> On 10 October 2012 11:47, Adrian Godwin <artgod...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Russ Garrett <r...@garrett.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 10 October 2012 10:51, Ian Henderson <i...@advancedforensics.com> wrote:
>>>> I think it's a great space but I'm not sure it would be suitable as the
>>>> next Hackspace without a lot of work
>>>> Here are a few photographs:
>>> Thanks!
>>> It does look like an awesome space but I agree it's almost certainly
>>> out of our budget to even start refurbishing unless we can drum up at
>>> least an extra £50k.
>> Maybe that's the sort of thing that would qualify for a grant.
It doesn't have Borris bikes though. The convenience for me being able to cycle in on a whim with ease, without paying transport, is half the reason I come to the space.
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:21:52 AM UTC+1, artg...@googlemail.com wrote:
> It's got generally better communications though - underground, overground, > King's Cross, and leaves the A1 a little north of the worst congestion. > Probably no help to drivers from any other direction but may not be worse.
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Simon Howes <simonh...@googlemail.com<javascript:> > > wrote:
>> Its pretty far from the current space though... >> On Oct 10, 2012 10:51 AM, "Ian Henderson" <i...@advancedforensics.com<javascript:>> >> wrote:
>>> There has been mention of 42 North Road as a possible location for the >>> next Hackspace
>>> I currently rent an office at 39A North Road which is adjacent to 42 so >>> I've taken a few photographs. The post code is N7 9DP and the site is next >>> door to Caledonian Road Underground Station on the Picaddilly line (Zone 2)
>>> Number 42 was formerly used as a commercial garage (think QuickFit or >>> similar), it's a huge space - about 15,000 square feet and not in good >>> condition. Access is very easy and parking is reasonable with pay and >>> display bays outside the building between 9:30 and 4:30 Monday to Friday. >>> Outside these hours parking is free
>>> I think it's a great space but I'm not sure it would be suitable as the >>> next Hackspace without a lot of work
> >It's got generally better communications though<
> It doesn't have Borris bikes though. The convenience for me being able to
> cycle in on a whim with ease, without paying transport, is half the reason
> I come to the space.
> On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:21:52 AM UTC+1, artg...@googlemail.comwrote:
>> It's got generally better communications though - underground,
>> overground, King's Cross, and leaves the A1 a little north of the worst
>> congestion. Probably no help to drivers from any other direction but may
>> not be worse.
>> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Simon Howes <simonh...@googlemail.com>wrote:
>>> Its pretty far from the current space though...
>>> On Oct 10, 2012 10:51 AM, "Ian Henderson" <i...@advancedforensics.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> There has been mention of 42 North Road as a possible location for the
>>>> next Hackspace
>>>> I currently rent an office at 39A North Road which is adjacent to 42 so
>>>> I've taken a few photographs. The post code is N7 9DP and the site is next
>>>> door to Caledonian Road Underground Station on the Picaddilly line (Zone 2)
>>>> Number 42 was formerly used as a commercial garage (think QuickFit or
>>>> similar), it's a huge space - about 15,000 square feet and not in good
>>>> condition. Access is very easy and parking is reasonable with pay and
>>>> display bays outside the building between 9:30 and 4:30 Monday to Friday.
>>>> Outside these hours parking is free
>>>> I think it's a great space but I'm not sure it would be suitable as the
>>>> next Hackspace without a lot of work
It looks like it could be an awesome hackspace venue, and fund-raising events isn't beyond the 400+ highly intelligent members of the hackspace.
I'm sure we could run 'prototyping hackathon weekends' where businesses can come and spend money to hire the members to build prototypes quickly, but pay top dollar for the work. This could work for hardware, electronics or software.
North Road has quite a history of hackspace activity...
In 2008 United House ( the big building next to No. 42) hosted "H3: Beginners Arduino Workshop
In 2009 United House was the location of "Makers and Hackers London"
3dprintshow. Ltd - the organisers of http://3dprintshow.com which is running next week are based in Omnibus House - next door to United House
Originally the industrial buildings which comprise 42 North Road, Omnibus and United house were the London General Omnibus Company main workshops where most of London's buses were built in the late 19th century
> events isn't beyond the 400+ highly intelligent members of the hackspace.
> I'm sure we could run 'prototyping hackathon weekends' where businesses > can come and spend money to hire the members to build prototypes quickly, > but pay top dollar for the work. This could work for hardware, electronics > or software.
Plus the King's Cross area is undergoing a period of regeneration. In a few years it'll be hard to find property there at that price.
And: with the new CSN campus so close it would be a great opportunity to invite more artistic projects to our current specialty of engineering/crafts-driven projects. (Pls let's not have a discussion on the relative merits of having more art students around, and simply agree that any specialty we can add to our roaster is an improvement.)
> North Road has quite a history of hackspace activity...
> In 2008 United House ( the big building next to No. 42) hosted "H3: Beginners Arduino Workshop
> In 2009 United House was the location of "Makers and Hackers London"
> 3dprintshow. Ltd - the organisers of http://3dprintshow.com which is running next week are based in Omnibus House - next door to United House
> Originally the industrial buildings which comprise 42 North Road, Omnibus and United house were the London General Omnibus Company main workshops where most of London's buses were built in the late 19th century
> On Wednesday, 10 October 2012 18:40:39 UTC+1, Big Will wrote:
> It looks like it could be an awesome hackspace venue, and fund-raising events isn't beyond the 400+ highly intelligent members of the hackspace.
> I'm sure we could run 'prototyping hackathon weekends' where businesses can come and spend money to hire the members to build prototypes quickly, but pay top dollar for the work. This could work for hardware, electronics or software.
> On 10 October 2012 11:47, Adrian Godwin <artgod...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Russ Garrett <r...@garrett.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 10 October 2012 10:51, Ian Henderson <i...@advancedforensics.com> wrote:
>>>> I think it's a great space but I'm not sure it would be suitable as the
>>>> next Hackspace without a lot of work
>>>> Here are a few photographs:
>>> Thanks!
>>> It does look like an awesome space but I agree it's almost certainly
>>> out of our budget to even start refurbishing unless we can drum up at
>>> least an extra 50k.
>> Maybe that's the sort of thing that would qualify for a grant.
On 10 October 2012 22:42, Peter "Sci" Turpin <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:
> £50k is the same as every member paying an additional £8 a month.
...for a year, yes. But we'd need it immediately, to make this space
happen. In fact, we will have the additional problem that we'd need to
rent our existing space for a certain period to overlap with it.
I was wondering if we could put on an event, like a seminar or discussion where some of us give talks about our areas of expertise, over a weekend to raise some of the required capital.
We have just has Sam give cryptoparty, so we have some experience at this between us.
Would there be the interest and support from members to make something possible?
500 Londoners paying £100 for a weekend of talks, would (minus costs) give us the shot in the arm needed.
That much space might be enough to start a HackerHamlet if not a full-blown HackerT0wn! ;-) See http://www.indiegogo.com/hackert0wn for inspiration and day-dreaming...
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:51:40 AM UTC+1, Ian Henderson wrote:
> There has been mention of 42 North Road as a possible location for the > next Hackspace
> I currently rent an office at 39A North Road which is adjacent to 42 so > I've taken a few photographs. The post code is N7 9DP and the site is next > door to Caledonian Road Underground Station on the Picaddilly line (Zone 2)
> Number 42 was formerly used as a commercial garage (think QuickFit or > similar), it's a huge space - about 15,000 square feet and not in good > condition. Access is very easy and parking is reasonable with pay and > display bays outside the building between 9:30 and 4:30 Monday to Friday. > Outside these hours parking is free
> I think it's a great space but I'm not sure it would be suitable as the > next Hackspace without a lot of work
Okay, just to be sure here, the rent on the place is 50k more than currently budgeted or it'd cost that much to get the place usable?
Trying to brainstorm additional funding avenues and the additional space provided might be good for them. Example; turning down server donations for resale. If we could dump a secure cabin in there could use it as storage for such things. Or sub-letting. But that is down-the-line funding not up front.
Bigger space would really need extra cash generating channels.
> On 10 October 2012 10:51, Ian Henderson <i...@advancedforensics.com> wrote:
>> I think it's a great space but I'm not sure it would be suitable as the
>> next Hackspace without a lot of work
>> Here are a few photographs:
> Thanks!
> It does look like an awesome space but I agree it's almost certainly
> out of our budget to even start refurbishing unless we can drum up at
> least an extra £50k.
On 11 October 2012 14:39, Peter "Sci" Turpin <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:
> Okay, just to be sure here, the rent on the place is 50k more than currently
> budgeted or it'd cost that much to get the place usable?
I don't actually know what the rent for it is. I contacted the estate
agents a while back and they said "We are not quoting a rent as such,
which will depend on the user and scope of any works to the
building.", which is suitably cryptic. It could be well out of our
price range.
The £50k is my (potentially optimistic) estimate of the up-front costs
we'd need to make at least some of the building usable as a space.
This doesn't include the overlap in rents while we do so.
> Okay, just to be sure here, the rent on the place is 50k more than currently budgeted or it'd cost that much to get the place > usable?
£50k to make it usable. A lot of this would be to create a building within a building so
that desks can be somewhere quiet and capable of being heated properly. Workshop
users will have to get used to the cold in winter, the heating will do little more than
prevent the pipes freezing.
Looking at the building on google maps and judging from the photos, it looks like the building may have a dividing wall down the centre, and the far end of the wedge may be in a poorer state. If so, perhaps we could rent only half the property or sub-let the other half?
I also note the office space (up and down) comes to 908sq/ft per floor, so ~1800sq/ft. Considering the entire current hackspace is 2600, that doesn't sound bad. Building a ceiling-height wall around the stairway mezzanine area would increase it for little cost. But basically, presuming the office space is currently okay, all the current "clean" operations of the space should fit within it.
The wet patches on the floor seem to correlate to the troughs of the roof, so may be blocked guttering or broken windows. Of course that'd need checking. I do have a 16ft scaffolding tower in the family though, so repairs/replacements are within our capability. Likewise building cheap stud-partition walls. Hell, we could do it as a DIY class.
I'd suspect 50k is the absolute upper limit of potential repairs. Andy's willing to come along on a viewing if there is one, since he knows how to get things fixed up at reduced cost.
But you're right, that's very cryptic. It's almost as if they don't want to rent it, maybe considering selling it to developers? How long's it been on the market with them? If it's been a while, then they may be holding it just waiting for land prices to be right to sell.
> On 11 October 2012 14:39, Peter "Sci" Turpin <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:
>> Okay, just to be sure here, the rent on the place is 50k more than currently
>> budgeted or it'd cost that much to get the place usable?
> I don't actually know what the rent for it is. I contacted the estate
> agents a while back and they said "We are not quoting a rent as such,
> which will depend on the user and scope of any works to the
> building.", which is suitably cryptic. It could be well out of our
> price range.
> The £50k is my (potentially optimistic) estimate of the up-front costs
> we'd need to make at least some of the building usable as a space.
> This doesn't include the overlap in rents while we do so.
If they won't give you more than a 2-year lease, then they will
probably be planning on developing.
Standard terms with commercial leases, is with any lease longer than
two years, the tenant has the automatic right of renewal, for a new
lease of the same length of time as the original lease. Still got to
pay for the lease though. If you're renting out property, and you're
planning on developing the building, a standard tactic, is to only
offer a tenancy of two years, less 1 day. Keeps inside the limits.
Might be worth checking with Islington Council. They stopped letting
people do commercial-to-residential zoning conversions. There were too
many pubs being converted by the pub chains. Turning them into flats
was more profitable than running them as a going concern.
If that planning restriction is still in place, then, the odds of a
residential developement is low-to-non-existent.
Gives us a little more leverage in negotiating a better deal, as they
won't be able to do anything else with it, and the commercial property
market is donald at the moment.
On 11 Oct, 15:46, "Peter \"Sci\" Turpin" <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:
> Looking at the building on google maps and judging from the photos, it
> looks like the building may have a dividing wall down the centre, and
> the far end of the wedge may be in a poorer state. If so, perhaps we
> could rent only half the property or sub-let the other half?
> I also note the office space (up and down) comes to 908sq/ft per floor,
> so ~1800sq/ft. Considering the entire current hackspace is 2600, that
> doesn't sound bad. Building a ceiling-height wall around the stairway
> mezzanine area would increase it for little cost. But basically,
> presuming the office space is currently okay, all the current "clean"
> operations of the space should fit within it.
> The wet patches on the floor seem to correlate to the troughs of the
> roof, so may be blocked guttering or broken windows. Of course that'd
> need checking. I do have a 16ft scaffolding tower in the family though,
> so repairs/replacements are within our capability. Likewise building
> cheap stud-partition walls. Hell, we could do it as a DIY class.
> I'd suspect 50k is the absolute upper limit of potential repairs. Andy's
> willing to come along on a viewing if there is one, since he knows how
> to get things fixed up at reduced cost.
> But you're right, that's very cryptic. It's almost as if they don't want
> to rent it, maybe considering selling it to developers? How long's it
> been on the market with them? If it's been a while, then they may be
> holding it just waiting for land prices to be right to sell.
> On 11/10/2012 14:59, Russ Garrett wrote:
> > On 11 October 2012 14:39, Peter "Sci" Turpin <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:
> >> Okay, just to be sure here, the rent on the place is 50k more than currently
> >> budgeted or it'd cost that much to get the place usable?
> > I don't actually know what the rent for it is. I contacted the estate
> > agents a while back and they said "We are not quoting a rent as such,
> > which will depend on the user and scope of any works to the
> > building.", which is suitably cryptic. It could be well out of our
> > price range.
> > The £50k is my (potentially optimistic) estimate of the up-front costs
> > we'd need to make at least some of the building usable as a space.
> > This doesn't include the overlap in rents while we do so.
Well, I just re-read the email I got from the agents and it turns out
I missed the bit where he said it's for long-term let only (in
commercial property parlance that's 10 years plus with no break
clause). I don't think that it would be prudent for us to go for a
long term let, especially with all the other risks on that property. I
can try and ask about a break clause but I get the impression that's
not going to be possible.
> I also note the office space (up and down) comes to 908sq/ft per floor,
For business rates purposes it has 87.5 sq m, which is 942 sq ft, no mention
of two floors.
Unit 24 is listed as 106.88 sq m which is 1150 sq ft (the measurements
used for ratable value ignore things like loos, cupboards, boiler rooms
etc.) so it is only 208 sq ft smaller - pretty much the size of the lobby.
> Building a ceiling-height wall around the stairway > mezzanine area would increase it for little cost.
Unless that is already classed as office space and included in the 900 ish sq ft
figure. I doubt that it is, except maybe for the estate agent's figures.
> presuming the office space is currently okay, all the current "clean" > operations of the space should fit within it.
I suspect it is a bit of a mess, but shouldn't cost much to get it up to a
usable standard.
> But you're right, that's very cryptic. It's almost as if they don't want > to rent it, maybe considering selling it to developers?
That was my thought too.
> How long's it been on the market with them?
Quite a while, the PDF flyer was created in November 2010
That interior photo only shows about half of the building, it would be nice
to see the rest of it.
The issue of creating enough space that can be kept warm enough during
winter wouldn't be all that urgent if we moved in at the end of spring, we
would have up to 6 months to get something built before it gets too cold.
