{se me}

[Ilmen]

coi ro do

I recently discovered that {lo se me ko'a} isn't a valid method for
creating a description sumti from the special sumti slot introduced by
{me}. The reason is, {me} being a syntactically irregular predicate, it
actually has no x2 as such, and {me ko'a} is considered as a unary
predicate, which results in {lo se me ko'a} being semantically undefined.

The best paraphrases I can think of that do not use experimental cmavo
are the following:
• lo ckaji be lo ka ko'a me ce'u (ku)
• zo'e noi ko'a me ke'a (ku'o)

Both of the above are pretty awkward and/or long paraphrases for what
would have simply been {lo selbri be ko'a} with a regular predicate word.

Therefore I'd like to know if any of you can think of a good way to turn
the relation {me} "X is/are among (the referents of) Y" into a regular
predicate word form (brivla).

One possible solution could have been making a lujvo from {me}, but it
turns out that {me} has no rafsi. As for using {zei} (me zei ckaji or
whatever), this doesn't look like a very appealing solution for such a
basic and frequent predicate, as the resulting lexeme would be likely at
least four syllables long.

Another possibility would be making an experimental gismu or a zi'evla.
Running la gimyzba on the translations of "among" in the 8~12 largest
world languages gives me {menre} as the best-scoring gismu form that
doesn't clash with any official gismu. ("menre" mostly comes
etymologically from the Spanish "entre", the Hindi "mem/men", the
English "among" and the Russian "sredi".)

Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o

[Gleki Arxokuna]

or just move {me} to BRIVLA/GOhA whatever you call it.

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[Jorge Llambías]

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Ilmen <ilmen....@gmail.com> wrote:

One possible solution could have been making a lujvo from {me}, but it turns out that {me} has no rafsi. As for using {zei} (me zei ckaji or whatever), this doesn't look like a very appealing solution for such a basic and frequent predicate, as the resulting lexeme would be likely at least four syllables long.

"se zei me" would only be three syllables...

Another possibility would be making an experimental gismu or a zi'evla. Running la gimyzba on the translations of "among" in the 8~12 largest world languages gives me {menre} as the best-scoring gismu form that doesn't clash with any official gismu. ("menre" mostly comes etymologically from the Spanish "entre", the Hindi "mem/men", the English "among" and the Russian "sredi".)

I'm not against it. "se menre" is not shorter than "se zei me", but it may be clearer.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

[Jorge Llambías]

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:

or just move {me} to BRIVLA/GOhA whatever you call it.

One problem with that is that then you would need a lot of "be" that are not needed now.