[lojban] Re: Alice proofreading
Craig
>> recognize "cerasus" as that's where the word "cherries" comes
>> from.
>OK. How is that pronounced in Latin, because I bet it's not ceraso.
Classical Latin would have "kErasus" if it is a short a and "kerAsus" if it
is a long a. Seeing as the short A results in Spanish "*cierzo" and the long
a in "cerezo", meaning "cherry tree", I'm guessing it's like lojban
"kerasus". That said, many people reading latin use the (worng) tc for c
before i,e. Reconstructive work proves that this cannot have been the
pronunciation, at least before Sardinian split off from other Western
Romance languages.
jjllambias2000
wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 04:07:44PM -0000, jjllambias2000 wrote:
> > la greg cusku di'e
> > > I love {za'uzra}, I'd just got ready to point out a mistake when
> > > I realised it was correct.
> >
> > ki'e ui
>
> za'uzra?
>
> There is no rafsi 'zra', that I can find.
ci-zra, za'u-zra, it is not supposed to be correct lojban,
it's playing with the words: 3zra, >zra.
I had ci-zra, bi-zra originally, which had the additional
bizra-bizarre connection.
mu'o mi'e xorxes
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Pierre Abbat
> la greg cusku di'e
>
> the way?
>
> Typo. {grutrceraso} is "cherry".
Both are valid, but colloquially I'd call a pineapple {bromeli} unless there
was some other kind of bromeli around (like one of those "air plants" that
grows in a seashell) and I needed to be precise.
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Robin Lee Powell
> cu'u la rabn
> >
> > za'uzra?
> >
> > There is no rafsi 'zra', that I can find.
>
> *seems* to be a rafsi for {cizra}
Yeah, I went to the same place.
> (ok, if it's preceded by cizra, that helps). I also know that za'u
> is a cmavo which has something to do with "more" I think the
> original was "peculiar and peculiarlier" ?
"Curiouser and curiouser". Part of the reason I haven't started
posting one of my famed back-translations is that I remember exact
wording for most of the first chapter of Alice in English... 8)
-Robin
--
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** I'm a *male* Robin.
.i le pamoi velru'e zo'u crepu le plibu taxfu
.i le remoi velru'e zo'u mo .i le cimoi velru'e zo'u ba'e prali .uisai
http://www.lojban.org/ *** to sa'a cu'u lei pibyta'u cridrnoma toi
Robin Lee Powell
> At 04:07 PM 3/26/03 +0000, la xorxes wrote:
> >la greg cusku di'e
> >
> >> > either, but I can't find anything better.
> >>
> >> No, call it a kitchen container but not a cup container/box. a
> >cupboard is
> >> not better identified by having cups
> >
> >Maybe {bimdadyta'e}, {bitmu dandu tanxe}? Or just {bimta'e}?
>
> How about selkajnyta'e (se kajna tanxe). I think of a cupboard as
> primarily an enclosed set of shelves.
Ooh, I like that.
Pierre Abbat
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 09:57:01PM -0500, Craig wrote:
> > Classical Latin would have "kErasus" if it is a short a and
> > "kerAsus" if it is a long a.
>
According to the rules for Lojbanizing Latin words given in chapter 4, 'c' is
changed to 'k' before a back vowel. Before a front vowel, it is left alone.
phma
--
.i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do
.ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
.icu'u la ma'atman.
Robin Lee Powell
> la greg cusku di'e
> >jinto is something that is a source of some liquid. It certainly
> >isn't a vertical shaft. How about {rajytu'u}
>
> How about {jintyke'a}? A well is a hole in the ground to reach
> water, to reach a jinto.
That may be, but *jinto* is not a hole necessarily:
jinto well
x1 is a well/spring of fluid x2 at location x3
A spring need not be in the ground. Use zo tubnu .a zo kevna .a zo
sraji, please.
> >I don't know how to translate "cupboard", but I'm not impressed
> >by "kabri tanxe"
>
> {kabri vasru}? I don't particularly like {kabri tanxe} either, but
> I can't find anything better.
Oh, kabri vasru is *much* better. Although for this one I think
it's fu'ivla time, as in my world cupboards rarely hold cups...
What about kajna?
> >why does Alice say {*uo* mi na ba xanka sa'a li'o} I don't get
> >what uo means. At first I thought she had reached the end of her
> >fall, but that's not the case.
>
> I don't know, it seemed to me like a completion in the sense that
> she is taking stock of the situation. After the fall so far, and
> what she has seen and done, she 'stops' to think. What would you
> suggest she might say? She says "Well!" in English.
Agreed.
> >After falling like this: {ba lonu farlu tai ti kei} shouldn't it be {tai
> >la'edi'u}?
>
> No, she is not referring to anything that she has just described.
> She is referring to "this situation that I'm in". I think that has
> to be {ti}.
ti is something you point at. You don't point at situations.
What's wrong with lo nu zi farlu?
> >just after there is an {i go'i} which I don't get
>
> "Yes, that was about the right distance."
>
> {i go'i} was meant to translate the "yes". Maybe change
> to {iese'i}, "self-agreement"?
Please.
John Cowan
> > Classical Latin would have "kErasus" if it is a short a and "kerAsus" if it
> > is a long a. Seeing as the short A results in Spanish "*cierzo" and the
>
> my dictionary says it is a short 'a' by nature, and there is no positional
> length either, right?.
>
> > long a in "cerezo", meaning "cherry tree",
In that case, I suppose that "cerezo" is either a fairly direct borrowing
from Latin, or an inherited form that has been reshaped under Latin influence.
Spanish is full of both of these: for an obvious example, inherited "hablar"
vs. Latinate "fabular".
--
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It's all semi-structured, no less. http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
But I'll be carefree jco...@reutershealth.com
Using XSLT http://www.reutershealth.com
In an XML DBMS.
Nora LeChevalier
>la greg cusku di'e
>
> > > {kabri vasru}? I don't particularly like {kabri tanxe} either,
> > > but I can't find anything better.
> >
> > No, call it a kitchen container but not a cup container/box. a
>cupboard is
> > not better identified by having cups
>
>Maybe {bimdadyta'e}, {bitmu dandu tanxe}? Or just {bimta'e}?
How about selkajnyta'e (se kajna tanxe). I think of a cupboard as
primarily an enclosed set of shelves.
--
mi'e noras no...@lojban.org
Nora LeChevalier
Robin Lee Powell
> I've decided the best way for me to learn lojban is to read Alice.
I am also reading it.
> pamo'o Alice falls down a well: la alis farlu fo lo mutce condi
> jinto. A jinto is something that is a source of some liquid. It
> certainly isn't a vertical shaft.
It most certainly is not.
> How about {rajytu'u}
Agreed.
> I don't know how to translate "cupboard", but I'm not impressed by
> "kabri tanxe"
OMFG! I couldn't for the *life* of me figure out what that was
supposed to mean!
> why does Alice say {*uo* mi na ba xanka sa'a li'o} I don't get
> what uo means. At first I thought she had reached the end of her
> fall, but that's not the case.
Satisfaction. Think of her nodding to herself and saying "Yes.".
> After falling like this: {ba lonu farlu tai ti kei} shouldn't it
> be {tai la'edi'u}?
I suggested tai ziku, or just zi farlu in my notes (which I haven't
sent to anyone yet, in case you're wondering, xorxes.).
> {i zu'u le cabna na matrai li'o} what is {matrai} a typo for?
What makes you think that's a typo?
"On the other hand, now's a good time for..."
> just after there is an {i go'i} which I don't get
"Yes.". I think ".i .ie" would be better, myself.
> enough for now, this is tougher than I thought, although I have
> managed to impress a few people (I've printed out the first
> chapter and I've been reading it during boring lectures - with
> little help from wordlists).
Good for you!
jjllambias2000
la noras cusku di'e
> How about selkajnyta'e (se kajna tanxe). I think of a cupboard as
> primarily an enclosed set of shelves.
Ok, I'll use that. The problem was that the text talks of
cupboards and book-shelves, I used {cukta kajna} for the latter,
and I wanted to make more of a distinction between them. After
all, a {se kajna tanxe} could just as well be a bookshelf.
mu'o mi'e xorxes
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Craig
>> >> recognize "cerasus" as that's where the word "cherries" comes
>> >> from.
>> >
>> >OK. How is that pronounced in Latin, because I bet it's not ceraso.
>>
>> is a long a. Seeing as the short A results in Spanish "*cierzo" and the
>my dictionary says it is a short 'a' by nature, and there is no positional
>length either, right?.
I don't actually speak the language, so I wouldn't know which is correct. However, many of my friends have taken some and taught me the pronunciations. Consequently, I have no dictionaries to check in. If it is a long a, then there ought to be a macron over it; if not it is probably short. But, since I have read quite a bit on historical linguistics and proto-western-romance is one of the standard examples, I am able to give reasonable guesses about Spanish forms of these things - and I would guess from actual Spanish forms that it would be a long A, but I really don't know.
Gregory Dyke
la xorxes spuda be mi cusku di'e
> >pamo'o
> >Alice falls down a well: la alis farlu fo lo mutce condi jinto. A jinto
is
> >something that is a source of some liquid. It certainly isn't a vertical
> >shaft. How about {rajytu'u}
>
> How about {jintyke'a}? A well is a hole in the ground to reach
> water, to reach a jinto.
If you really feel that it's important to keep the idea of "well" in the
lojban then ok.
I don't feel it would be any different if it were "shaft" which is what I
translated.
>
> >I don't know how to translate "cupboard", but I'm not impressed by "kabri
> >tanxe"
>
> {kabri vasru}? I don't particularly like {kabri tanxe} either,
> but I can't find anything better.
No, call it a kitchen container but not a cup container/box. a cupboard is
not better identified by having cups
>
> >why does Alice say {*uo* mi na ba xanka sa'a li'o} I don't get what uo
> >means. At first I thought she had reached the end of her fall, but that's
> >not the case.
>
> I don't know, it seemed to me like a completion in the sense that
> she is taking stock of the situation. After the fall so far, and
> what she has seen and done, she 'stops' to think. What would you
> suggest she might say? She says "Well!" in English.
I don't know {je'u} maybe?
> >After falling like this: {ba lonu farlu tai ti kei} shouldn't it be {tai
> >la'edi'u}?
>
> No, she is not referring to anything that she has just described.
> She is referring to "this situation that I'm in". I think that
> has to be {ti}.
I get it!
> matrai (mapti traji) = most appropriate
My gi'uste must be dying, I couldn't find {mat}
> {i go'i} was meant to translate the "yes". Maybe change
> to {iese'i}, "self-agreement"?
yep
i di'a co'e
{le se vorme noi traji le ka melbi lei purdi} this is missing the kei after
melbi
{le nu denpa fi le cmalu vorme} wouldn't a tu'a be appropriate here?
{gi'e xadba pacna le nu facki} I can't help but feel that lojban's less
"English" devices should be used here {50% pacna} or something similar
{i xamgu fa le nu cusku lu ko mi pinxe li'u} I suppose this should be "It's
all very well saying "drink me!", but..." some statement of
insatisfaction/annoyance/irony should be added or used to replace xamgu
?s/{lei sampu jivni}/{lei sampu jinvi}/
this sumti is then {no'u}d to other sumti which are {le nu co'e}s. Can a lei
be semantically no'ud to le?
{[lenu pinxe le vindu] cu li'o fanza da} Surely it does more than
annoy/irritate ?
In describing the taste as a mixture of things, shouldn't these be "lo'e"
why {grutrxananase} but {rutrceraso} what does the latter mean by the way?
{i abu ta'e sezystidu lo xamgu mutce} shouldn't this be lo'e?
remo'o
I love {za'uzra}, I'd just got ready to point out a mistake when I realised
it was correct.
shouldn't the first {to} have a {sa'a}?
mu'o
Robin Lee Powell
> --- In loj...@yahoogroups.com, Robin Lee Powell <lojban-out@l...>
> wrote:
> > > >it be {tai la'edi'u}?
> > >
> > > No, she is not referring to anything that she has just
> > > described. She is referring to "this situation that I'm in". I
> > > think that has to be {ti}.
> >
> > ti is something you point at. You don't point at situations.
>
> fall", seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to say.
...
I suppose. But Alice certainly wasn't pointing, I think we can
agree. Or if she was, we don't know about it.
> > What's wrong with lo nu zi farlu?
>
> So you want "after this fall" instead of "after a fall like this".
> Isn't {tai ti} closer to the original?
Granted, but I still don't like it very much, sorry.
What about tai le cabna? Or le puzi co'e/fasnu?
Jorge Llambias
la greg cusku di'e
>I've decided the best way for me to learn lojban is to read Alice.
ui Thanks for the comments.
>pamo'o
>Alice falls down a well: la alis farlu fo lo mutce condi jinto. A jinto is
>something that is a source of some liquid. It certainly isn't a vertical
>shaft. How about {rajytu'u}
How about {jintyke'a}? A well is a hole in the ground to reach
water, to reach a jinto.
>I don't know how to translate "cupboard", but I'm not impressed by "kabri
>tanxe"
{kabri vasru}? I don't particularly like {kabri tanxe} either,
but I can't find anything better.
>why does Alice say {*uo* mi na ba xanka sa'a li'o} I don't get what uo
>means. At first I thought she had reached the end of her fall, but that's
>not the case.
I don't know, it seemed to me like a completion in the sense that
she is taking stock of the situation. After the fall so far, and
what she has seen and done, she 'stops' to think. What would you
suggest she might say? She says "Well!" in English.
>After falling like this: {ba lonu farlu tai ti kei} shouldn't it be {tai
>la'edi'u}?
No, she is not referring to anything that she has just described.
She is referring to "this situation that I'm in". I think that
has to be {ti}.
>{i zu'u le cabna na matrai li'o} what is {matrai} a typo for?
matrai (mapti traji) = most appropriate
>just after there is an {i go'i} which I don't get
"Yes, that was about the right distance."
{i go'i} was meant to translate the "yes". Maybe change
to {iese'i}, "self-agreement"?
ki'e mi'e xorxes
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Gregory Dyke
> How about selkajnyta'e (se kajna tanxe). I think of a cupboard as
> primarily an enclosed set of shelves.
iecai ui
cu'u la rabn
>
> za'uzra?
>
> There is no rafsi 'zra', that I can find.
No, but my current "lojban vocabulary space" recognizes that "zra" *seems*
to be a rafsi for {cizra} (ok, if it's preceded by cizra, that helps). I
also know that za'u is a cmavo which has something to do with "more"
I think the original was "peculiar and peculiarlier" ?
Greg
Adam D. Lopresto
> it's playing with the words: 3zra, >zra.
>
> I had ci-zra, bi-zra originally, which had the additional
> bizra-bizarre connection.
I rather like the sound of cizra ci'izra, following the same basic logic.
--
Adam Lopresto
http://cec.wustl.edu/~adam/
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Robin Lee Powell
> Robin Lee Powell scripsit:
>
> > Except not; bookshelves are not normally enclosed.
> >
> > This is, AFAIK, the primary difference between the two.
>
> The cupboards in my house had (until two decades ago) no doors. I
> think cupboards are defined by their contents: eating utensils, if
> not otherwise qualified.
>From dictionary.com:
cupboard
\Cup"board\ (k[u^]b"b[~e]rd), n. [Cup + board.] 1. A board or shelf
for cups and dishes. [Obs.] --Bacon.
2. A small closet in a room, with shelves to receive cups, dishes,
food, etc.; hence, any small closet.
cup�board P Pronunciation Key (kbrd)
n.
A closet or cabinet, usually with shelves for storing food,
crockery, and utensils.
cab�i�net P Pronunciation Key (kb-nt)
n.
An upright, cupboardlike repository with shelves, drawers, or
compartments for the safekeeping or display of objects.
cabinet
adj 1: relating to or used in making cabinets; "cabinet wood" 2:
relating to or being a member of a governmental cabinet; "cabinet
matters"; "a cabinet minister" n 1: a cupboard-like repository or
piece of furniture with doors and shelves and drawers; for storage
or display 2: persons appointed by a head of state to head executive
departments of government and act as official advisers 3: a storage
compartment for clothes and valuables; usually it has a lock [syn:
locker, storage locker] 4: housing for electronic instruments, as
radio or television [syn: console]
Seems like I'm closer to being correct than you are, from that
evidence, but it's hardly clear.
jjllambias2000
be {tai
> > >la'edi'u}?
> >
> > No, she is not referring to anything that she has just described.
> > She is referring to "this situation that I'm in". I think that has
> > to be {ti}.
>
> ti is something you point at. You don't point at situations.
Why don't you point at situations? {ta nu farlu}, for
"that's a fall", seems like a perfectly reasonable thing
to say.
> What's wrong with lo nu zi farlu?
So you want "after this fall" instead of "after a fall like
this". Isn't {tai ti} closer to the original?
mu'o mi'e xorxes
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G. Dyke
Although I'd like to nitpick the use of each LE+NU, I just can't be
bothered, so here is a list of the mistakes I find. (I also can't be
bothered to read the original, so I may not see some mistakes - or find
some that aren't actually mistakes at all.)
pamo'o
Alice falls down a well: la alis farlu fo lo mutce condi jinto. A jinto is
something that is a source of some liquid. It certainly isn't a vertical
shaft. How about {rajytu'u}
I don't know how to translate "cupboard", but I'm not impressed by "kabri
tanxe"
why does Alice say {*uo* mi na ba xanka sa'a li'o} I don't get what uo
means. At first I thought she had reached the end of her fall, but that's
not the case.
After falling like this: {ba lonu farlu tai ti kei} shouldn't it be {tai
la'edi'u}?
{i zu'u le cabna na matrai li'o} what is {matrai} a typo for?
just after there is an {i go'i} which I don't get
enough for now, this is tougher than I thought, although I have managed to
impress a few people (I've printed out the first chapter and I've been
reading it during boring lectures - with little help from wordlists).
--
http://ic.epfl.ch/~dyke
e'osai ko sarji la lojban - www.lojban.org
"That man is such an ignoramus, Father." [...]
"Stand inside his soul and see the world through his eyes. You will feel
the pain he feels because of his ignorance, and you will not laugh."
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Pierre Abbat
> cu'u la noras
> > za'uzra?
> >
> > There is no rafsi 'zra', that I can find.
>
> No, but my current "lojban vocabulary space" recognizes that "zra" *seems*
> to be a rafsi for {cizra} (ok, if it's preceded by cizra, that helps). I
> also know that za'u is a cmavo which has something to do with "more"
> I think the original was "peculiar and peculiarlier" ?
Curiouser and curiouser. "za'u" as a rafsi actually means "buttock", and the
whole word is a fu'ivla.
Robin Lee Powell
> On Thursday 27 March 2003 02:44, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 04:07:44PM -0000, jjllambias2000 wrote:
> > > > why {grutrxananase} but {rutrceraso} what does the latter
> > > > mean by
> > >
> > > the way?
> > >
> >
> > want to know is where you got ceraso from. Linnean?
>
> Prunus cerasus. There's also P. avium but pe'i more people would
> recognize "cerasus" as that's where the word "cherries" comes
> from.
OK. How is that pronounced in Latin, because I bet it's not ceraso.
> > > > remo'o
> > > >
> > > > I love {za'uzra}, I'd just got ready to point out a mistake
> > > > when I realised it was correct.
> > >
> > > ki'e ui
> >
> > za'uzra?
> >
> > There is no rafsi 'zra', that I can find.
>
> There can't be, as 'zr' isn't valid initial.
Really? Didn't know that.
Björn Gohla
Hash: SHA1
On 2003-03-28 20:09, Pierre Abbat wrote:
> On Friday 28 March 2003 13:05, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 27, 2003 at 09:57:01PM -0500, Craig wrote:
> > > Classical Latin would have "kErasus" if it is a short a and
> > > "kerAsus" if it is a long a.
> >
> > OK, then why are people using ceraso in lojban instead of keraso?
>
> According to the rules for Lojbanizing Latin words given in chapter 4, 'c'
> is changed to 'k' before a back vowel. Before a front vowel, it is left
> alone.
that seems to depend on what kind of latin you are referring to, the cited
rules must be based on some postclassical pronounciation, which i like a lot
less than pronuntiatio restituta. in the latter, being the most likely way
latin sounded in republican times, 'c' is always a lojban 'k'.
- --
In mathematics, it's not enough to read the words
you have to hear the music.
Björn Gohla (Wissenschaftler, Weltbürger) <b.g...@gmx.de>; key id: 834F4976;
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jjllambias2000
> On Wednesday 26 March 2003 11:07, jjllambias2000 wrote:
> > la greg cusku di'e
> > > why {grutrxananase} but {rutrceraso} what does the latter mean
by
> >
> > the way?
> >
> > Typo. {grutrceraso} is "cherry".
>
> Both are valid,
I don't like using short rafsi for this because it can lead
to ambiguities. Things like {CVCrnC...} or {CCVnrC...} etc
could come from a short or long rafsi. Even though such
words are unlikely, even simple things like {rutrceraso}
could be misleading if {rutrV} was a gismu.
Would {rutnrzberi} be understood as rut-n-rzberi or
rutn-r-zberi?
Type 3 fu'ivla are clumsy in any case, so I don't see
much advantage in adding to the confusion with 3-letter
rafsi.
mu'o mi'e xorxes
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Robin Lee Powell
> la noras cusku di'e
> > How about selkajnyta'e (se kajna tanxe). I think of a cupboard
> > as primarily an enclosed set of shelves.
>
> Ok, I'll use that. The problem was that the text talks of
> cupboards and book-shelves, I used {cukta kajna} for the latter,
> and I wanted to make more of a distinction between them. After
> all, a {se kajna tanxe} could just as well be a bookshelf.
Except not; bookshelves are not normally enclosed.
This is, AFAIK, the primary difference between the two.
-Robin
Lionel Vidal
>
>Classical Latin would have "kErasus" if it is a short a and "kerAsus"
>
greek word kerasos (where the initial 'k' is actually a khi, hence
the initial latin 'c'). So the accent falls on the antepenultiem
syllable 'KE'.
Best wishes,
Lionel
Robin Lee Powell
> la greg cusku di'e
> > here?
>
Yay, I get to take that out of *my* notes. 8)
> > {gi'e xadba pacna le nu facki} I can't help but feel that
> > lojban's less "English" devices should be used here {50% pacna}
> > or something similar
>
> What's the difference between xadba and 50%? Maybe {milxe} instead
> of {xadba}, but I'm not sure {xadba} is wrong.
<pedantic and silly>
Because she's not half of a hoper?
</pedantic and silly>
> > {i xamgu fa le nu cusku lu ko mi pinxe li'u} I suppose this
> > should be "It's all very well saying "drink me!", but..." some
> > statement of insatisfaction/annoyance/irony should be added or
> > used to replace xamgu
>
> "o'ocu'i"?
Sure, but I like it as is. Just add the emotive, pe'u.
> > ?s/{lei sampu jivni}/{lei sampu jinvi}/
>
> Actually, {lei samu javni}.
I assume you meant {lei sampu javni}.
> > {[lenu pinxe le vindu] cu li'o fanza da} Surely it does more
> > than annoy/irritate ?
>
> "[...] it is almost certain to disagree with you, sooner or
> later".
Yep. 8)
Although in my notes I suggested 'bilma fanza'.
> > why {grutrxananase} but {rutrceraso} what does the latter mean
> > by
> the way?
>
> Typo. {grutrceraso} is "cherry".
Actually, rut is a rafsi of grute, the original is fine. What I
want to know is where you got ceraso from. Linnean?
> > remo'o
> >
> > I love {za'uzra}, I'd just got ready to point out a mistake when
> > I realised it was correct.
>
> ki'e ui
za'uzra?
There is no rafsi 'zra', that I can find.
-Robin
Craig
if it
>> > is a long a. Seeing as the short A results in Spanish "*cierzo" and the
>>
>> my dictionary says it is a short 'a' by nature, and there is no
positional
>> length either, right?.
>>
>> > long a in "cerezo", meaning "cherry tree",
>In that case, I suppose that "cerezo" is either a fairly direct borrowing
>from Latin, or an inherited form that has been reshaped under Latin
influence.
>Spanish is full of both of these: for an obvious example, inherited
"hablar"
>vs. Latinate "fabular".
Things like this are one reason why you can't reall tell for sure from just
the Spanish form (and I don't speak any other Romance languages, so they
won't help in my case.) In looking at things diachronically, guessing is
usually the best you can do with only one language.
Björn Gohla
Hash: SHA1
On 2003-03-28 03:57, Craig wrote:
> >> Prunus cerasus. There's also P. avium but pe'i more people would
> >> recognize "cerasus" as that's where the word "cherries" comes
> >> from.
> >
> >OK. How is that pronounced in Latin, because I bet it's not ceraso.
>
> Classical Latin would have "kErasus" if it is a short a and "kerAsus" if it
> is a long a. Seeing as the short A results in Spanish "*cierzo" and the
my dictionary says it is a short 'a' by nature, and there is no positional
length either, right?.
> long a in "cerezo", meaning "cherry tree", I'm guessing it's like lojban
> "kerasus". That said, many people reading latin use the (worng) tc for c
> before i,e. Reconstructive work proves that this cannot have been the
> pronunciation, at least before Sardinian split off from other Western
> Romance languages.
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Pierre Abbat
> > la greg cusku di'e
> > > why {grutrxananase} but {rutrceraso} what does the latter mean
> > > by
> >
> > the way?
> >
> > Typo. {grutrceraso} is "cherry".
>
> Actually, rut is a rafsi of grute, the original is fine. What I
> want to know is where you got ceraso from. Linnean?
Prunus cerasus. There's also P. avium but pe'i more people would recognize
"cerasus" as that's where the word "cherries" comes from.
> > > remo'o
> > >
> > > I love {za'uzra}, I'd just got ready to point out a mistake when
> > > I realised it was correct.
> >
> > ki'e ui
>
> za'uzra?
>
> There is no rafsi 'zra', that I can find.
There can't be, as 'zr' isn't valid initial.
phma
jjllambias2000
la greg cusku di'e
> > {kabri vasru}? I don't particularly like {kabri tanxe} either,
> > but I can't find anything better.
>
> No, call it a kitchen container but not a cup container/box. a
cupboard is
> not better identified by having cups
Maybe {bimdadyta'e}, {bitmu dandu tanxe}? Or just {bimta'e}?
> i di'a co'e
>
> {le se vorme noi traji le ka melbi lei purdi} this is missing the
kei after
> melbi
Right.
> {le nu denpa fi le cmalu vorme} wouldn't a tu'a be appropriate here?
Ok.
> {gi'e xadba pacna le nu facki} I can't help but feel that lojban's
less
> "English" devices should be used here {50% pacna} or something
similar
What's the difference between xadba and 50%?
Maybe {milxe} instead of {xadba}, but I'm not sure {xadba} is wrong.
> {i xamgu fa le nu cusku lu ko mi pinxe li'u} I suppose this should
be "It's
> all very well saying "drink me!", but..." some statement of
> insatisfaction/annoyance/irony should be added or used to replace
xamgu
"o'ocu'i"?
> ?s/{lei sampu jivni}/{lei sampu jinvi}/
Actually, {lei samu javni}.
> this sumti is then {no'u}d to other sumti which are {le nu co'e}s.
Can a lei
> be semantically no'ud to le?
In general, yes: {lei stagi ku no'u le salta}: The vegetables,
which constitute the salad. In this particular case, it does
seem wrong. I think it should be {lo'e sampu javni}.
> {[lenu pinxe le vindu] cu li'o fanza da} Surely it does more than
> annoy/irritate ?
"[...] it is almost certain to disagree with you, sooner or later".
> In describing the taste as a mixture of things, shouldn't these
be "lo'e"
Yes.
> why {grutrxananase} but {rutrceraso} what does the latter mean by
the way?
Typo. {grutrceraso} is "cherry".
> {i abu ta'e sezystidu lo xamgu mutce} shouldn't this be lo'e?
Yes.
> remo'o
>
> I love {za'uzra}, I'd just got ready to point out a mistake when I
realised
> it was correct.
ki'e ui
> shouldn't the first {to} have a {sa'a}?
Not really, it is a parenthetical remark by the same person
(the author) that says the main sentence. {sa'a} is needed when
it is the author inserting a comment within one of the characters'
speech.
i mi do mutce ckire le nu ca'o pinka
mu'o mi'e xorxes
Robin Lee Powell
> >> would recognize "cerasus" as that's where the word "cherries"
> >> comes from.
>
> >OK. How is that pronounced in Latin, because I bet it's not
> >ceraso.
>
> "kerAsus" if it is a long a.
OK, then why are people using ceraso in lojban instead of keraso?
-Robin