A suggestion of a new 漢字-based writing system for Lojban (please, translate this post into Japanese)

[gleki]

pe'u do fanva ti fi lo ponbau 

.i pe'u do casnu lo ti notci ku .i xu mi'o ka'e pilno lo ti se ciska ciste

The number of Esperanto speakers has dropped in China considerably in the last decades.

Esperanto leaders say it's all because it's hard for native Chinese speakers to learn Latin alphabet and understand that each symbol doesn't represent any semantic element but rather just a (usually) meaningless sound.

Here is a draft of  漢字-based Lojbanic writing method.

1. Every gismu and it's corresponding rafsi are represented using one symbol usually taken from hànzì table.

e.g. {melbi} is 美  (pronounced as melbi, but in the original Chinese script it's mei3 that means "beautiful")

更 - zmadu (in hanzi it means "more" or "to change")

1a. Rafsi are written with exactly the same symbols but may be pronounced in a short form (not only {melb}, but {mle}, {mle} too)

2. Lujvo are written by joining several gismu together using simple character. For now I suggest caret (^) but it might be changed.

e.g. 

美^更 - mlemau

3. Personal names are written using jbopomofo or standard Chinese methods or adapted katakana (using rare symbols with predefined sounding to represent certain sounds instead of meaning)

[guskant]

coi fi'i gleki

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:59 PM, gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
> pe'u do fanva ti fi lo ponbau

a'o ru'e xai go'i

> .i pe'u do casnu lo ti notci ku .i xu mi'o ka'e pilno lo ti se ciska ciste
>
> The number of Esperanto speakers has dropped in China considerably in the
> last decades.
> Esperanto leaders say it's all because it's hard for native Chinese speakers
> to learn Latin alphabet and understand that each symbol doesn't represent
> any semantic element but rather just a (usually) meaningless sound.
>

The statement "it's hard for native Chinese speakers to learn Latin

alphabet and understand that each symbol doesn't represent any

semantic element but rather just a (usually) meaningless sound." is
false for Chinese people today.

Children in PRC learn first pinyin, for example:
http://www.thn21.com/xiao/yice/24732.html

Children in Taiwan learn first bopomofo, for example:
http://blog.ifeng.com/article/1482773.html
They learn also English sooner or later, naturally including Latin alphabet.

There is no reason that they have difficulties with Latin alphabet.

Anyhow, we can discuss your idea.

>
> Here is a draft of  漢字-based Lojbanic writing method.
>
> 1. Every gismu and it's corresponding rafsi are represented using one symbol
> usually taken from hànzì table.
> e.g. {melbi} is 美  (pronounced as melbi, but in the original Chinese script
> it's mei3 that means "beautiful")
> 更 - zmadu (in hanzi it means "more" or "to change")
> 1a. Rafsi are written with exactly the same symbols but may be pronounced in
> a short form (not only {melb}, but {mle}, {mle} too)
> 2. Lujvo are written by joining several gismu together using simple
> character. For now I suggest caret (^) but it might be changed.
> e.g.
> 美^更 - mlemau
> 3. Personal names are written using jbopomofo or standard Chinese methods or
> adapted katakana (using rare symbols with predefined sounding to represent
> certain sounds instead of meaning)

A table of gismu-Hanzi one-to-one correspondence was already created
by baisong. You can download the spreadsheet files:
http://lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=%E9%A6%96%E9%A1%B5
This table is useful for Hanzi-cultural people to catch and memorize
easily the meaning of gismu. However, Latin alphabet is still
necessary to memorize the sounds.

It seems to me that your idea works well only for gismu, but Step-1a
does not satisfy the rule
"The symbols used to record the language — the spoken language that is
— ought to be clearly related to the sounds used,"
described in
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Proper+Lojban+Orthography
because readers cannot identify the phonemes from the sequence of
characters based on Step-1a.
To avoid this problem, you may create additional signs to be attached
to each character of gismu, denoting which rafsi is used.

As for Step-3, there is no reasonable common way for all
Hanzi-cultural people. Generally speaking, people from PRC cannot read
(j)bopomofo nor katakana, people from Taiwan cannot read katakana,
people from Japan cannot read (j)bopomofo nor Hanzi in Chinese
pronunciation. As a result, Latin alphabet is the easiest common way
of describing cmene, as well as fu'ivla (though you did not mention
the latter). If you restrict the set of users to a proper subset of
Hanzi-cultural people, you may select one of your ways. In fact, some
people created their own orthography in hiragana or katakana, as well
as (j)bopomofo.

Moreover, it is also necessary to create a rule to denote cmavo that
is not conflict with the other rules.

In my opinion, I don't desire Hanzi orthography for Lojban, but Latin
alphabet is not at all suitable for Lojban, because Latin letters are
not legible because of their forms. For example,
"rn" and "m",
"d" and "cl",
"i" and "l",
"." and ","
and even "a" and "o" in some fonts
are not very distinctive.
I wish therefore Latin alphabet were replaced with an alphabet
designed based on ergonomics, not only in Lojban but also in any
environments.

mi'e .guskant. mu'o

[guskant]

ji'a

gleki さんは英語のメーリングリストでも同じ話題で投稿なさっていて、こちらと違う見解の返信が見られますので、一応そちらへのリンクを張っておきます。
http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/6545568624f75df7

[guskant]

On Mar 7, 8:17 am, guskant <gusni.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A table of gismu-Hanzi one-to-one correspondence was already created
> by baisong. You can download the spreadsheet files:http://lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=%E9%A6%96%E9%A1%B5
> This table is useful for Hanzi-cultural people to catch and memorize
> easily the meaning of gismu. However, Latin alphabet is still
> necessary to memorize the sounds.
>

I realized that you should select the language "中文(简体字)" on that page
to
view the download links to the spreadsheet files.