[gentoo-user] Binary Package Repository?
Nicholas Pappas
I'm having a crisis of conscious at the moment. I've been using Gentoo
for a while and I really like it, but the simple truth is I don't need
the granularity that compiling the source for each update provides.
That, and I don't fool myself into pretending I know enough to tune my
USE (and per package USE) variable to make the source version any better
then your average prebuilt P4 package.
Are there mirrors that offer binary versions for the P4 for each
package? I might have a few features built into apps that I might not
need, or maybe have to juggle a few source distributions to make sure I
get what I need, but a "mostly" pre-built repository would just make my
updates so much better. :)
Nick
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Christoph Eckert
> Are there mirrors that offer binary versions for the P4
> for each package? I might have a few features built into
> apps that I might not need, or maybe have to juggle a few
> source distributions to make sure I get what I need, but a
> "mostly" pre-built repository would just make my updates so
> much better. :)
I'm really happy to have installed Gentoo. Yes, I like it.
But, sorry, just like you, certainly not for compiling all
packages by myself. It's such a futile waste of electrical
power... ;-) .
I'd like to say, yes, if there were a binary repository, I'd
immediately use it.
But, I guess, binaries depend on so many aspects of a system
it'll be not that easy to provide well preconfigured
binaries.
Best regards
ce
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Collins Richey
Just pick [ any | your favorite binary distro ]. After [ a few | many
] binary package upgrades you'll reach the desired (<g>) unstable
stage which is why the binary distros typically issue a new release to
keep everything working.
Otherwise, just run your compiles overnight or when you're having fun
browsing the net or ...., and worry less about electricity.
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Alec Warner
Binary Packages Break Gentoo ;) It's not feasable to add them, and
looking at the current state of Linux it probably never will be <g>.
Your toolchain is different from their toolchain, your libraries from
their libraries, your system from their system. Since Binary
Distribution X controls all the binaries on the box, they don't have
these kinds of problems ( or as Rac would point out, much less so ).
Since you have control over your box, perhaps your system decisions were
different from the Binary Creators decision, and boom! -> bugs. The
amount of development and support necessary to facilitate both
is...beyond my comprehension as far as tracking bugs between all manner
of packages...*shudders*
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Valarie and Nick Schmidt
install....bindist.....maybe an option to have emerge -k pull from a
website? There are many times i need a quick system and program to get
up and running.
Nick
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Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
> Why not have something like the package cd from the
> install....bindist.....maybe an option to have emerge -k pull from a
> website? There are many times i need a quick system and program to get
> up and running.
Because, except under fairly controlled circumstances, any precompiled
binary won't work.
For example, there are almost certainly issues with using packages compiled
with CHOST=i386-pc-linux-gnu on a CHOST=i686-pc-linux-gnu system. [Don't
change CHOST after stage 1, IIRC the docs correctly.]
I *know* there are issues running a program compiled with gcc 3.3 on a
system that's gcc 3.4 only. (Throw 2.95 in there and you have a receipe
for disaster.)
When you can control these circumstances, you can set up portage to use
binary packages from a local repositiory. I assume you could even make
your repository public and anyone with a similar enough setup could use
it. [For most packages, it is sufficent to have the same CHOST and
toolchain (compiler, linker, etc.)]
Of course, non-C{++,} packages might not have these restrictions, or others
instead.
Finally, you have to do USE management. I believe the binary packages
contain the USE information, but I don't think the name varies (so it's
hard to have multiple versions) when the USE flags change. So, if even a
single important USE is different that how the binary is compiled, you'll
have to recompile to see the changes anyway.
I do feel the pain of compiling: I'm running a PII 450, but if you want the
flexibility gentoo gives you, you have to put up with it.
[Well, I suppose you don't have to, but there are *a lot* of problems that
have to be solved before we'll see a general-purpose gentoo binary
mirror.]
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Valarie and Nick Schmidt
:) Actually the packages repos would be whatever is on the arch cd.
For example when in a rush on my p4 i download the bindist iso. All
the packages there are compiled for p4. Now i understand that same
package cd wouldnt work on my athlonxp. But here is what i am saying.
Take the contents of the bindist cd. Put it on a webserver
export BINDIST_ROOT="http://gentoo.mirrors.pair.com/bindinst/pentium4/"
emerge -k gnome
tadda! (a little sidenote; if any pair.com guys/gals are reading I
love the mirror....very quick all the time....thanks for supporting
this community and the O*Bsd community)
Nick
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Martoni
>
> I'm having a crisis of conscious at the moment. I've been using Gentoo
> for a while and I really like it, but the simple truth is I don't need
> the granularity that compiling the source for each update provides.
> That, and I don't fool myself into pretending I know enough to tune my
> USE (and per package USE) variable to make the source version any better
> then your average prebuilt P4 package.
I am sorry - but these threads almost get me into flame war mode. What
you are saying is "I like Gentoo - but I don't like Gentoo". It makes
no sense what so ever. One of the basic points with using Gentoo,
IMHO, is that it *is* a source based distro. You are supposed to be
able to tweak the packages. Binary packages create more problems than
they solve, again IMHO, in that you will soon get into dependency
hell.
I you want binary packages of everything, then go to RH, Mandrake or
something like that.
Rgds,
Martin s
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Tero Grundström
I agree completively.
What is with these guys who /choose/ to use Gentoo - one of the *few*
source based distros instead of one of the *many* binary distros. And then
they start whining here about the lack of binaries... that's just
senseless, twisted logic.
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Nicholas Pappas
> I am sorry - but these threads almost get me into flame war mode. What
> you are saying is "I like Gentoo - but I don't like Gentoo". It makes
> no sense what so ever.
Since I never said that, I'm not sure why you are having trouble with
"flame war mode". I said I liked Gentoo. I said, for me, I don't need
the granularity that is provided most of the time.
I like Gentoo's philosophy. I like the community, as shown in this
thread that most people can read a post for what it is and realize that
there are all sorts of Linux users out there. I like the package
repository system. I like everything about Gentoo. I *never* said I
don't like compiling packages -- I said I don't require the ability to
do so most of the time.
Why would you get into "flame war mode"? There is nothing in my
original post that should take you there. So what if I don't feel need
to compile everything... you should become angry at that... why? So
what if I believe this, that, or whatever. I asked a question, and got
(for the most part) useful responses back. Nowhere in my post did I try
to push any belief on anybody, insult anyone, or do anything beyond
describe my situation and ask a simple question. Why people feel the
need to flame, for any reason, is beyond me.
Thank you to everyone who did reply to the question at hand. I do
appreciate the feedback and I appreciate those who took the time to
describe why such a situation would not work.
Dave Nebinger
> I said, for me, I don't need the granularity that is provided most
> of the time.
You're not forced into running the emerge --sync followed by emerge -uD
world processes.
If your box is working fine for you, then just leave it alone. Rely on the
old saying "If it's not broke, don't fix it." It goes a long way,
especially in the linux world.
I'll typically only really upgrade kernels and packages with significant
security fixes in them. The box doesn't need to be on the bleeding edge or
even current - it has to work.
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Gregory P. Smith
> security fixes in them. The box doesn't need to be on the bleeding edge or
> even current - it has to work.
This is one of gentoo's flaws that needs fixing. There is no way to
tell emerge to just rebuild security updates only. (unless its been
silently added when i wasn't looking)
For people who want binary packages on an up to date distro i highly
recommend Ubuntu.
-g
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Ciaran McCreesh
<greg-...@electricrain.com> wrote:
| > I'll typically only really upgrade kernels and packages with
| > significant security fixes in them. The box doesn't need to be on
| > the bleeding edge or even current - it has to work.
|
| This is one of gentoo's flaws that needs fixing. There is no way to
| tell emerge to just rebuild security updates only. (unless its been
| silently added when i wasn't looking)
You mean 'glsa-check'?
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Mail : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm
Phil Sexton
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 10:15:59 -0800 "Gregory P. Smith"
> <greg-...@electricrain.com> wrote:
> | > I'll typically only really upgrade kernels and packages with
> | > significant security fixes in them. The box doesn't need to be on
> | > the bleeding edge or even current - it has to work.
> |
> | This is one of gentoo's flaws that needs fixing. There is no way to
> | tell emerge to just rebuild security updates only. (unless its been
> | silently added when i wasn't looking)
>
> You mean 'glsa-check'?
Does that exist?
tinwhistle / # emerge glsa-check
Calculating dependencies
emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "glsa-check".
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Our 2nd CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/naomisfancy
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Nicholas Pappas
> For people who want binary packages on an up to date distro i highly
> recommend Ubuntu.
I actually just got done re-installing Gentoo after trying to get
Ubuntu installed. The current 4.10 release installer locks up when it
tries to load the SATA 'sd_mod' modules, and the next release installer
doesn't even make it to the language selection. :(
I've heard a lot of nice things about Ubuntu, but I guess I'm waiting
until April (next release schedule) to see.
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meax
>
> Does that exist?
>
> tinwhistle / # emerge glsa-check
> Calculating dependencies
> emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "glsa-check".
>
emerge gentoolkit
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Phil Sexton
> emerge gentoolkit
One of my first emerges. I should have used locate....
tinwhistle / # locate glsa-check
/usr/bin/glsa-check
Nick Rout
> Gregory P. Smith wrote:
> > For people who want binary packages on an up to date distro i highly
> > recommend Ubuntu.
>
> I actually just got done re-installing Gentoo after trying to get
> Ubuntu installed. The current 4.10 release installer locks up when it
> tries to load the SATA 'sd_mod' modules, and the next release installer
> doesn't even make it to the language selection. :(
> I've heard a lot of nice things about Ubuntu,
it is nice, but its not the real thing ;-)
>but I guess I'm waiting
> until April (next release schedule) to see.
>
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Nick Rout <ni...@rout.co.nz>
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Nick Rout
http://chinstrap.alternating.net/
"Project Chinstrap aims to provide relatively new binary packages to the Gentoo GNU/Linux distribution.
It is unofficial, experimental, and not supported by Gentoo.
We do not take responsibility for any results of using the binaries provided.
The files are only accessible through http.
It is always in the stage of beta testing.
This means that we would like feedback from the users."
--
Frédéric Grosshans
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:21:22 -0500, Nicholas Pappas
> <npa...@rightstep.org> wrote:
> > Hello all.
> >
> I am sorry - but these threads almost get me into flame war mode. What
> you are saying is "I like Gentoo - but I don't like Gentoo". It makes
> no sense what so ever. One of the basic points with using Gentoo,
> IMHO, is that it *is* a source based distro.
I think that's a common misconception about gentoo. If you read the
"Philosophy of Gentoo", at
http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/philosophy.xml , you can read
We have become known as a "from source" distribution, but the
heart of the Gentoo concept is not "from source." "From source"
is an important and key aspect of Gentoo, and something that was
and will continue to be necessary for Gentoo, but it is not the
only issue or most fundamental issue. The most fundamental issue
is designing a technology that allows us and others to do what
they want to do, without restriction.
and, a little further down
It's important that our tools support binary packages, because
binary packages are widely used and widely in demand in the
Linux community. If our tools don't support binary packages,
then we can't claim that our tools are designed to allow a user
to do anything he or she might want to do.
So Nicholas' demand semmes to be an official objective of the Gentoo
community, and he doesn't deserve to be flamed at all !
--
Frédéric Grosshans <frederic.gr...@polytechnique.org>
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Christoph Eckert
> So Nicholas' demand semmes to be an official objective of
> the Gentoo community, and he doesn't deserve to be flamed
> at all !
Perhaps it would be cool to have something like
for Gentoo, so desktop users can easily download and test
desktop applications.
If someone is interested he can port it for Gentoo, but it's
nothing related to Gentoo directly.
Daevid Vincent
Unsupported Operating System
If you were visiting this site with Linux, you could install thousands of
applications simply with a klik. You can download a free copy of Linux here.
Please come back with a standards compliant operating system and browser.
This site is optimized for Konqueror and Firefox.
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Christoph Eckert
> Is this really necessary? Grow up.
>
> Unsupported Operating System
> If you were visiting this site with Linux, you could
> install thousands of applications simply with a klik. You
> can download a free copy of Linux here. Please come back
> with a standards compliant operating system and browser.
>
> This site is optimized for Konqueror and Firefox.
What browser did you use? I really dislike pages with messages
like this. I tried lynx and I could read it without
limitations.
Douglas James Dunn
Douglas James Dunn
cell: (724) 316-8266
Secretary Phi Mu Delta Mu Theta chapter
Indiana University of Pennsylvania
() The ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against HTML Email,
/\ vCards, and proprietary formats.
.
.vir. d$b
.d$$$$$$b. .cd$$b. .d$$b. d$$$$$$$$$$$b .d$$b. .d$$b.
$$$$( )$$$b d$$$()$$$. d$$$$$$$b Q$$$$$$$P$$$P.$$$$$$$b. .$$$$$$$b.
Q$$$$$$$$$$B$$$$$$$$P" d$$$PQ$$$$b. $$$$. .$$$P' `$$$ .$$$P' `$$$
"$$$$$$$P Q$$$$$$$b d$$$P Q$$$$b $$$$b $$$$b..d$$$ $$$$b..d$$$
d$$$$$$P" "$$$$$$$$ Q$$$ Q$$$$ $$$$$ `Q$$$$$$$P `Q$$$$$$$P
$$$$$$$P `""""" "" "" Q$$$P "Q$$$P" "Q$$$P"
`Q$$P" """
Holly Bostick
the site is for installing Linux pre-compiled binaries, I would think
that you only get such a message if your UA is some Windows browser
string, and since Linux pre-compiled binaries are useless to what
appears to be a Windows user, I don't see the message as objectionable
per se.
The tone is a bit of a dig, but I've seen enough "optimized for IE"
pages that wouldn't display properly (and even some that refused to load
on purpose) under Netscape/Mozilla (Windows), that I can see why one
might enjoy the shoe being on the other foot a bit too much.
Holly
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Nick Rout
from chinstrap.alternating.net, i'll report back after its finished.
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Billy Holmes
> What browser did you use? I really dislike pages with messages
> like this. I tried lynx and I could read it without
> limitations.
if you have the useragent plugin for firefox, set it to Internet
Explorer, and open the page.
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Bastian Balthazar Bux
I was thinking at something similar for gentoo, with a mysql portage
tree database as backend, not limited to desktop app and with support
for the various use-flags
That boy has done a grat job IMHO
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Nick Rout
spend a lot of time compiling on. It dual boots and i only occasionally use
linux on it..
anyway it has a base (text) gentoo install on it.
On Friday I set it to install kde from the binary repository at
chinstrap.alternating.net.
I simply set PORTAGE_BINDIR in /etc/make and went emerge -gk kde
It downloaded a large volume of binary files and installed them. I
didn't come in over the weekend but was able to view the whole process
over ssh/screen. On Monday morning I ran X -configure, moved the config
file to the correct place, changed /etc/rc.conf to use kdm as the login
manager and started /etc/init.d/xdm
everything just worked.
portage in fact compiled two of the dependencies - presumably the
chinstrap people are a day or so behind the portage tree. it was no big
drama. the rest was installed via the binaries.
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:21:22 -0500
Nicholas Pappas <npa...@rightstep.org> wrote:
> Hello all.
>
> I'm having a crisis of conscious at the moment. I've been using Gentoo
> for a while and I really like it, but the simple truth is I don't need
> the granularity that compiling the source for each update provides.
> That, and I don't fool myself into pretending I know enough to tune my
> USE (and per package USE) variable to make the source version any better
> then your average prebuilt P4 package.
> Are there mirrors that offer binary versions for the P4 for each
> package? I might have a few features built into apps that I might not
> need, or maybe have to juggle a few source distributions to make sure I
> get what I need, but a "mostly" pre-built repository would just make my
> updates so much better. :)
>
> Nick
>
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