printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN

[Leonard Le-Rey]

Hey guys,

Debian testing (wheezy) has recognized the network printer Kyocera
FSC-5100DN correctly, I have first taken the driver offered by Debian
and then the one offered by Kyocera. If I print I standard text
document created for eg. by Libre Office, it works fine. If I want to
print a PDF produced by pdfLaTex, it might print one page but if I
print a larger amount, I get the following printout error message:

ERROR:
undefined
OFFENDING COMMAND:
m
STACK:
--nostringval--
133

and nothing is printed anymore. KPDL is put on AUTO and I have to say,
that in Ubuntu 11.10, the printer is recognized as well and the native
Ubuntu driver has been install. On this computer, printing of the same
document works without any problems. I can print the docs only if I
generate PS files. Furthermore, I have to mention that there was once
some problem on Ubuntu systems wich might be related:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/foomatic-db/+bug/442451

Attached a PDF where this problem appears. Is there a way to take the
Ubuntu PPD file? And if, how I get it to try on the Debian system?

Thanks!


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[Camaleón]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:29:40 +0200, Leonard Le-Rey wrote:

> Debian testing (wheezy) has recognized the network printer Kyocera
> FSC-5100DN correctly, I have first taken the driver offered by Debian
> and then the one offered by Kyocera. If I print I standard text document
> created for eg. by Libre Office, it works fine. If I want to print a PDF
> produced by pdfLaTex, it might print one page but if I print a larger
> amount, I get the following printout error message:
>
> ERROR:
> undefined
> OFFENDING COMMAND:
> m
> STACK:
> --nostringval--
> 133

(...)

Mmmm, how about using a different printer driver?

Different drivers give different results as they interpret PostScript
files in their "own" way. That say, you could try with (in order of
preference): Postscript-Kyocera, Generic PS, PCL6. You can add as many
printer instances as drivers you want to test :-)

> and nothing is printed anymore.

What's now the status of the printer? Maybe you have to "enable" it
again, AFAIK, the default printer policy is to put the printer in "stop"
mode after any error.

> Attached a PDF where this problem appears.

Can't see it :-?

> Is there a way to take the Ubuntu PPD file? And if, how I get it to try
> on the Debian system?

Yes, just copy/paste from one computer to the other but this will solve
the problem only if the error resides inside the PPD file and not in the
cups package itself.

P.S. Worth noting that there are some issues with cups in wheezy for a
set of PS printers.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón

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[Leonard Le-Rey]

okay, this is one way to take another driver, but often also offering
less printing possibilities (for. eg duplex or so). Attached the file,
sorry :) Ah I see, so if it is in cups, I could probably report a
bug.. but anyway, in Ubuntu it works but does not get back to Debian
:)

After the error, I just can print further with any computer connected
to it.. that's no problem. I mean the printer itself seems not to have
problems..

So, about copying and trying the ubuntu driver, I mean practically,
where do I find this on the Ubuntu system: I have searched for PPD but
did not find something proper...

Thanks!

2012/3/30 Camaleón <noel...@gmail.com>:

Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CA+YwZuD4L6SBngRKK4FfBoY_...@mail.gmail.com

[Camaleón]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:25:42 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:

> Could someone explain me, what are "top- and bottom posting" styles?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style

Greetings,

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[Camaleón]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:53:24 +0200, Leonard Le-Rey wrote:

(pelase, keep a bottom-posting style, thanks :-) )

> 2012/3/30 Camaleón <noel...@gmail.com>:

(...)

>>> Is there a way to take the Ubuntu PPD file? And if, how I get it to
>>> try on the Debian system?
>>
>> Yes, just copy/paste from one computer to the other but this will solve
>> the problem only if the error resides inside the PPD file and not in
>> the cups package itself.
>>
>> P.S. Worth noting that there are some issues with cups in wheezy for a
>> set of PS printers.

> okay, this is one way to take another driver, but often also offering
> less printing possibilities (for. eg duplex or so). Attached the file,
> sorry :) Ah I see, so if it is in cups, I could probably report a bug..
> but anyway, in Ubuntu it works but does not get back to Debian :)

Well, that's the goal. Trying a different driver is not to be a permanent
solution but just for testing purposes to demonstrate where the problem
resides (PPD file and not the whole cups package).

> After the error, I just can print further with any computer connected to
> it.. that's no problem. I mean the printer itself seems not to have
> problems..

Okay, that means the printer has been auto-re-engaged again, good.

> So, about copying and trying the ubuntu driver,

The first I would try is getting the most updated PPD file from Kyocera
(this one says "PSVersion: (3011.103) 1" which seems the latest available).

http://www.openprinting.org/ppd-o-matic.php?driver=Postscript-Kyocera&printer=Kyocera-FS-C5100DN_KPDL&show=0

Or look into Kyocera's site, juts in case:

http://usa.kyoceramita.com/americas/jsp/Kyocera/download_center.jsp?pid=19588&pcat=10563&rcid=10009&rscid=10007#bottom

> I mean practically, where do I find this on the Ubuntu system: I have
> searched for PPD but did not find something proper...

"locate *.ppd" will tell you where those files are though they're usually
go under "/usr/share/ppd/...".

Greetings,

--
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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Could someone explain me, what are "top- and bottom posting" styles?

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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[Allan Wind]

On 2012-03-30 16:29:40, Leonard Le-Rey wrote:
> If I want to
> print a PDF produced by pdfLaTex, it might print one page but if I
> print a larger amount, I get the following printout error message:
>
> ERROR:
> undefined
> OFFENDING COMMAND:
> m
> STACK:
> --nostringval--
> 133
>
> and nothing is printed anymore.

Does the printer actually support PDF input, or do you have a
filter in place that concerts them to postscript? pdf2ps might
come handy. If the printer indeed supports PDF input, then
I would suggest you install the latest firmware so you don't
spend time troubleshooting old issues.


/Allan
--
Allan Wind
Life Integrity, LLC
<http://lifeintegrity.com>

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thanks :).

But some people like top posting, like me. I think that with top
posting the new message is easier to read than, when it's below the quote.

I know that this can be configured in client and I have set Icedove to
use top posting and K9 Mail does it by default, if I recall correctly.

On 30.03.2012 18:28, Camaleón wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:25:42 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>
>> Could someone explain me, what are "top- and bottom posting"
>> styles?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
>
> Greetings,
>

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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[Paul Johnson]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Camaleón <noel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:25:42 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>
>> Could someone explain me, what are "top- and bottom posting" styles?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style

Though it's generally ideal to go with a conversational style,
inserting new text within the quoted material for context. Top
posting almost never meets this, bottom posting only works when the
post you're responding to is very short. Like this.

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[Camaleón]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:36:25 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:

> Thanks :).
>
> But some people like top posting, like me. I think that with top posting
> the new message is easier to read than, when it's below the quote.

That's up to you. And to me ;-)

> I know that this can be configured in client and I have set Icedove to
> use top posting and K9 Mail does it by default, if I recall correctly.

You can use whatever you prefer unless there's some recommendation in
this list for that regard. I still prefer the bottom posting style for
threading messages (like these on mailing lists) and so I say when
someone sends it otherwise. I like keeping the good manners.

Greetings,

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

With phones, it's easier to follow top posting in my opinion.

There are many kinds of people, so everyone has different opinion
about top/bottom posting :)

On 30.03.2012 18:50, Lisi wrote:

> On Friday 30 March 2012 16:34:54 Paul Johnson wrote:
>> Though it's generally ideal to go with a conversational style,
>> inserting new text within the quoted material for context. Top
>> posting almost never meets this, bottom posting only works when
>> the post you're responding to is very short.
>

> So use interleaving. Which is much the best. I find top-posting
> impossible to follow. And trim!!!
>
> Lisi

>
>

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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[Paul Johnson]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Mika Suomalainen
<mika.henr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> With phones, it's easier to follow top posting in my opinion.

I usually read/post from my phone. I'm going to have to strongly
disagree with that. Top posting makes it that much harder to properly
edit a reply for on a mobile device, which due to the small size,
already is hard enough.

> There are many kinds of people, so everyone has different opinion
> about top/bottom posting :)

Sure, but posting everything at one end or the other is usually not
the right answer. Newer material above older material just doesn't
work; people don't read in random order.

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[Lisi]

On Friday 30 March 2012 16:34:54 Paul Johnson wrote:

> Though it's generally ideal to go with a conversational style,
> inserting new text within the quoted material for context.  Top
> posting almost never meets this, bottom posting only works when the
> post you're responding to is very short.

So use interleaving. Which is much the best. I find top-posting impossible
to follow. And trim!!!

Lisi

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[Camaleón]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:34:54 -0700, Paul Johnson wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Camaleón <noel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:25:42 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>>
>>> Could someone explain me, what are "top- and bottom posting" styles?
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
>
> Though it's generally ideal to go with a conversational style, inserting
> new text within the quoted material for context. Top posting almost
> never meets this, bottom posting only works when the post you're
> responding to is very short. Like this.

Bottom posting has been since long the preferred method for newsgroups
and then mailing lists but not for forums nor business communications.

A bottom posting style does not mean "all the stuff goes to the bottom"
but put in chunks between context, replying inline, as Wikipedia article
says ("interleaved style").

Greetings,

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[Camaleón]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:53:09 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:

> With phones, it's easier to follow top posting in my opinion.

<malicious mode on>

People with cell phones shouldn't post to mailing lists unless they keep
the good rules and manners when doing so >>>:-)

</malicious mode off>

Greetings,

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[Kelly Clowers]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 08:55, Paul Johnson <ba...@ursamundi.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Mika Suomalainen
> <mika.henr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> With phones, it's easier to follow top posting in my opinion.
>
> I usually read/post from my phone.  I'm going to have to strongly
> disagree with that.  Top posting makes it that much harder to properly
> edit a reply for on a mobile device, which due to the small size,
> already is hard enough.

I don't post/read from my phone very much, but I agree.

>> There are many kinds of people, so everyone has different opinion
>> about top/bottom posting :)

I have never understood why though, aside from people getting
used it due to Outlook and some others horrible defaults...

>Sure, but posting everything at one end or the other is usually not
>the right answer. Newer material above older material just doesn't
>work; people don't read in random order.

Exactly.


Cheers,
Kelly Clowers

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[Brian]

On Fri 30 Mar 2012 at 16:29:40 +0200, Leonard Le-Rey wrote:

> Debian testing (wheezy) has recognized the network printer Kyocera
> FSC-5100DN correctly, I have first taken the driver offered by Debian
> and then the one offered by Kyocera. If I print I standard text
> document created for eg. by Libre Office, it works fine. If I want to
> print a PDF produced by pdfLaTex, it might print one page but if I
> print a larger amount, I get the following printout error message:
>
> ERROR:
> undefined
> OFFENDING COMMAND:
> m
> STACK:
> --nostringval--
> 133

The reported bugs against the cups-filters package might interest you
sufficiently to see where you get if you installed the version in
unstable. Reading the changelog is advisable.

> and nothing is printed anymore. KPDL is put on AUTO and I have to say,
> that in Ubuntu 11.10, the printer is recognized as well and the native
> Ubuntu driver has been install. On this computer, printing of the same
> document works without any problems. I can print the docs only if I
> generate PS files. Furthermore, I have to mention that there was once
> some problem on Ubuntu systems wich might be related:

CUPS in Ubuntu 11.10 is different from CUPS in Wheezy in ways which do
not involve PPD files.

> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/foomatic-db/+bug/442451
>
> Attached a PDF where this problem appears. Is there a way to take the
> Ubuntu PPD file? And if, how I get it to try on the Debian system?

The PDF file is unlikely to be the problem.

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hint: Look for GPG signatures which mention "VERSION: APG" something,
they are sent from Android phones.

On 30.03.2012 19:09, Camaleón wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:53:09 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>
>> With phones, it's easier to follow top posting in my opinion.
>
> <malicious mode on>
>
> People with cell phones shouldn't post to mailing lists unless
> they keep the good rules and manners when doing so >>>:-)
>
> </malicious mode off>
>
> Greetings,
>

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

So people should edit those quotes and put what they think inside
them, like Kelly just did?

On 30.03.2012 19:38, Kelly Clowers wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 08:55, Paul Johnson <ba...@ursamundi.org>
> wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Mika Suomalainen
>> <mika.henr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> With phones, it's easier to follow top posting in my opinion.
>>
>> I usually read/post from my phone. I'm going to have to
>> strongly disagree with that. Top posting makes it that much
>> harder to properly edit a reply for on a mobile device, which due
>> to the small size, already is hard enough.
>
> I don't post/read from my phone very much, but I agree.

It probably depends on how email client on phone shows inline.

>>> There are many kinds of people, so everyone has different
>>> opinion about top/bottom posting :)
>
> I have never understood why though, aside from people getting used
> it due to Outlook and some others horrible defaults...
>
>> Sure, but posting everything at one end or the other is usually
>> not the right answer. Newer material above older material just
>> doesn't work; people don't read in random order.
>
> Exactly.
>
>
> Cheers, Kelly Clowers
>
>

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPdervAAoJEE21PP6CpGcoR8EP/jaqopGGbx+KT60nrhKyOrMc
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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Can you link me to Debian list policy / code of conduct? I think that
I might have missed that part.

On 30.03.2012 20:22, Jon Dowland wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 06:36:25PM +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>> But some people like top posting, like me. I think that with top
>> posting the new message is easier to read than, when it's below
>> the quote.
>>
>> I know that this can be configured in client and I have set
>> Icedove to use top posting and K9 Mail does it by default, if I
>> recall correctly.
>

> Debian list policy / code of conduct is NOT to top post. Please
> respect it.

>
>

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPde0IAAoJEE21PP6CpGcoNK4P/16mzIjGZZCt/jaZ+9Xjyi7z
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=IVdT

-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


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[Jon Dowland]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 06:36:25PM +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:

> But some people like top posting, like me. I think that with top
> posting the new message is easier to read than, when it's below the quote.
>
> I know that this can be configured in client and I have set Icedove to
> use top posting and K9 Mail does it by default, if I recall correctly.

Debian list policy / code of conduct is NOT to top post. Please respect it.

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[Miles Fidelman]

Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Camaleón<noel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:25:42 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>>
>>> Could someone explain me, what are "top- and bottom posting" styles?
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
> Though it's generally ideal to go with a conversational style,
> inserting new text within the quoted material for context. Top
> posting almost never meets this, bottom posting only works when the
> post you're responding to is very short. Like this.

I'll echo this one. Particularly when a thread gets long (as when
trying to debug a problem).

It gets very difficult to follow a thread when either:
- there's no context kept in a message (you have to go back and sort
through previous messages)
- some people top post, some people bottom post, some people interleave

Really helps when there's a generally agreed upon convention for a list,
and when people quote selectively.

Just one man's opinion, of course.

Miles Fidelman


--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 30.03.2012 20:28, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> Paul Johnson wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Camaleón<noel...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:25:42 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Could someone explain me, what are "top- and bottom posting"
>>>> styles?
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
>> Though it's generally ideal to go with a conversational style,
>> inserting new text within the quoted material for context. Top
>> posting almost never meets this, bottom posting only works when
>> the post you're responding to is very short. Like this.
>
> I'll echo this one. Particularly when a thread gets long (as when
> trying to debug a problem).
>
> It gets very difficult to follow a thread when either: - there's no
> context kept in a message (you have to go back and sort through
> previous messages) - some people top post, some people bottom post,
> some people interleave
>
> Really helps when there's a generally agreed upon convention for a
> list, and when people quote selectively.
>
> Just one man's opinion, of course.
>
> Miles Fidelman
>
>

Thank you for providing explaining to bottom post. I have now
configured Icedove and K9 Mail to do bottom posting instead of top
posting.

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPde7XAAoJEE21PP6CpGcoMNoQAIjzQQVn4EPB7wnSSKhSETgF
d0jTeUmtL0UfRWDuHODu7WXURJZ2kXUw8+qQEiTqx7YNDnVnTV3KoQ52lyemGttB
KPite68xn8+oVHsNov7csfnPrFvFtpmrvlGthiufsXYkXFWeomHgm92CzM459Wtp
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Miles Fidelman]

Mika Suomalainen wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Can you link me to Debian list policy / code of conduct? I think that
> I might have missed that part.
>
> On 30.03.2012 20:22, Jon Dowland wrote:
>> Debian list policy / code of conduct is NOT to top post. Please
>> respect it.

(Illustrating the problems when people intermix top and bottom posting.....)

That's what I thought, too, but then I checked:
http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/

And top vs. bottom posting does NOT seem to be addressed. Sort of
surprised me.

Miles Fidelman



--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra

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[Tony van der Hoff]

On 30/03/12 17:55, Camaleón wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:36:25 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>
>> Thanks :).
>>
>> But some people like top posting, like me. I think that with top posting
>> the new message is easier to read than, when it's below the quote.
>
> That's up to you. And to me ;-)
>

Huh. My god is better than your god, as is my editor, my car, and my
posting style. Anyone who disagrees is unworthy ;)

--
Tony van der Hoff | mailto:to...@vanderhoff.org
Ariège, France |

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Oh, and where is the "Hi," which starts the first message with
topposting put with bottom posting?

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPdfK9AAoJEE21PP6CpGcotEoP/iYVybLSbkc1W634FvYnZqyD
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=pjZu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Leonard Le-Rey]

2012/3/30 Brian <ad...@cityscape.co.uk>:

It is obviously not a driver problem, as the driver from Kyocera is
the most recent and works fine on other systems (such as Ubuntu
11.10). So as you suggested, it is the cups which is affected - as
reported by others. Hence I will have a look there (some took the cups
from Ubuntu 11.10). Here the content of my /var/log/cups/error_log

W [30/Mar/2012:11:03:41 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:11:03:41 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:11:03:41 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:11:03:41 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:11:03:41 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:11:03:41 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:49:22 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:49:22 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:49:22 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:49:22 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:49:22 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:49:22 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:49:22 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:49:22 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:49:22 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:49:22 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:49:22 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:49:22 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:54:10 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:54:10 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:54:10 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:54:10 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:54:10 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:54:10 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:54:10 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:54:10 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:54:10 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:54:10 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:54:10 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:56:35 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:56:35 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:56:35 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:56:35 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:56:35 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:56:35 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:56:35 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:56:35 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:56:35 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:56:35 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:56:35 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:12:56:35 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
E [30/Mar/2012:14:57:24 +0200] Avahi client failed, closing client to
allow a clean restart
W [30/Mar/2012:14:58:04 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:14:58:04 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:14:58:04 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:12:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:12:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:12:38 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:12:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:12:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:12:38 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:12:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:12:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:12:38 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:12:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:12:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:12:38 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:13:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:13:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:13:38 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:13:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:13:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:13:38 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:13:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:13:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:13:38 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:13:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:13:38 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:13:38 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
E [30/Mar/2012:15:13:49 +0200] [Job 24] PDF file is damaged -
attempting to reconstruct xref table...
E [30/Mar/2012:15:15:18 +0200] [Job 25] Invalid printer command "Clean"!
E [30/Mar/2012:15:15:18 +0200] [Job 27] PDF file is damaged -
attempting to reconstruct xref table...
W [30/Mar/2012:15:16:48 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:16:48 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:16:48 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:16:48 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:16:48 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:16:48 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:16:49 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:16:49 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:16:49 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:16:49 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:16:49 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-CMYK..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:15:16:49 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
E [30/Mar/2012:15:16:59 +0200] [Job 29] PDF file is damaged -
attempting to reconstruct xref table...
W [30/Mar/2012:16:12:40 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:12:40 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:12:40 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:12:40 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:12:40 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:12:40 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:12:40 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:12:40 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:12:40 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:12:40 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:12:40 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
E [30/Mar/2012:16:12:47 +0200] [Job 36] PDF file is damaged -
attempting to reconstruct xref table...
W [30/Mar/2012:16:13:10 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:13:10 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:13:10 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:13:10 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:13:10 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:13:10 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
E [30/Mar/2012:16:13:44 +0200] Avahi client failed, closing client to
allow a clean restart
W [30/Mar/2012:16:14:24 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:14:24 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:14:24 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
E [30/Mar/2012:16:14:24 +0200] [Job 36] PDF file is damaged -
attempting to reconstruct xref table...
E [30/Mar/2012:16:34:40 +0200] Avahi client failed, closing client to
allow a clean restart
W [30/Mar/2012:16:35:21 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:35:21 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:16:35:21 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:17:02:18 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Generic-PCL-6-PCL-XL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:17:02:18 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Generic-PCL-6-PCL-XL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:17:02:18 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Generic-PCL-6-PCL-XL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:17:02:18 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Generic-PCL-6-PCL-XL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:17:02:18 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Generic-PCL-6-PCL-XL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:17:02:18 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Generic-PCL-6-PCL-XL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:17:02:18 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Generic-PCL-6-PCL-XL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:17:02:18 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Generic-PCL-6-PCL-XL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:17:02:18 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Generic-PCL-6-PCL-XL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:19:03:18 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Generic-PCL-6-PCL-XL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:19:03:18 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Generic-PCL-6-PCL-XL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:19:03:18 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Generic-PCL-6-PCL-XL' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:19:03:18 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-Gray..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:19:03:18 +0200] failed to CreateProfile:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:profile id
'Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL-RGB..' already exists
W [30/Mar/2012:19:03:18 +0200] failed to CreateDevice:
org.freedesktop.ColorManager.AlreadyExists:device id
'cups-Kyocera-Mita-FS-C5100DN-KPDL' already exists

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[Claudius Hubig]

Hello Mika,

Mika Suomalainen <mika.henr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you for providing explaining to bottom post. I have now
> configured Icedove and K9 Mail to do bottom posting instead of top
> posting.

Just to do some more nitpicking: You should also remove everything
you are not referring to.

> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

And is there a specific reason you prefer PGP/Inline over PGP/Mime?
The latter avoids these ugly chunks of code at the end of the
displayed message.

And once messages are trimmed like this, they’re even readable on
mobile phones :-)

Best regards,

Claudius
--
Logic is the chastity belt of the mind!
Please use GPG: ECB0C2C7 4A4C4046 446ADF86 C08112E5 D72CDBA4
http://chubig.net telnet://nightfall.org:4242

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Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120330202...@ares.home.chubig.net

[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Claudius Hubig <debia...@chubig.net> wrote:

>Hello Mika,
>
>Mika Suomalainen <mika.henr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Thank you for providing explaining to bottom post. I have now
>> configured Icedove and K9 Mail to do bottom posting instead of top
>> posting.
>
>Just to do some more nitpicking: You should also remove everything
>you are not referring to.
>
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>And is there a specific reason you prefer PGP/Inline over PGP/Mime?
>The latter avoids these ugly chunks of code at the end of the
>displayed message.
>
>And once messages are trimmed like this, they’re even readable on
>mobile phones :-)
>
>Best regards,
>
>Claudius
>--
>Logic is the chastity belt of the mind!
>Please use GPG: ECB0C2C7 4A4C4046 446ADF86 C08112E5 D72CDBA4
>http://chubig.net telnet://nightfall.org:4242

Hi Cladius,

I think that I understand now.

Yes, there are reasons why I prefer GPG inline to s/mime.
1. K9 Maill can only verify inline signatures.
2. Inline signature is easier to verify when reading mailing list archives.
3. Inline spams people who do not use gpg compatible email client :P

PS. This is email is sent from my phone.

Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys 4DB53CFE82A46728
> Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

Version: APG v1.0.8

iQIuBAEBCAAYBQJPdf6PERxNaWthIFN1b21hbGFpbmVuAAoJEE21PP6CpGcoBTEQ
AIHueiaCoBM2eHaDj1JMRoRisL6anU11YiBQcAUp/VRHnyGTI0M/OsT/8BMzftKS
qet130fP5vuD+XG+vAti3cxlZZfGf6eEe4wuT0zf2DSpbxkxNCEMzXOl67Mr3FfK
gnUBdQ7ZLnBI1REdHYb0G4TMXWFfi9g/kfJjwAwiw8feAmOpoWpDYzHD8T3O8peA
wp+Kt04JspqTp9Cc0S4NOp33jHiDhtHNETEjpmrtKgGwFdvfRrIFt27aGWqmTDEg
s054mKtaMT48lQ1iSmCLCAUNt8xs1SYrwY+PssBet/O7yxu+2leleg5X8GHs36WM
7vws4y+h1JAGw8yjj7XfMeZFx2xYcFEZDqOSQtd6rc8ZGb7AVVi7+o1pu2xHhTOO
ES/ebeAIGId8TAScV6zUgNfdyS5YhP4CS/GH3ThWQb4UbMW4fUi6tDSLnirf2C6/
sfSqEz2N9I6R+LiCAIWF83Rcj5aYQS1UH0ZnL39zcZVFjHjjEt8fv/Ghliqg/bIe
g6XEDJ0zaD/3ktzZpROON9D5mgk30M6dnmHdLbUvRk3LFCqNvGWWw26IJJPrmtBg
xgaxCyiBNPFZo+2AK8GVsdMwZVGA0llEMWyblEL0s8isTyFUnoEujq6sSFbWGhXG
R68YMuVd/QF62pONJM7QdHzUtzcqCkVw/V3gtMh6ZljR
=f9IX
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Claudius Hubig <debia...@chubig.net> wrote:

>Hello Mika,
>
>Mika Suomalainen <mika.henr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 1. K9 Maill can only verify inline signatures.
>

>Hrm. Report a bug? :)

>
>> 2. Inline signature is easier to verify when reading mailing list
>archives.
>

>Most archives have an option to download the ‘plain’ mail including
>all MIME parts. I have to agree, though, that it is easier to have
>the signature inline in this case.

>
>> 3. Inline spams people who do not use gpg compatible email client :P
>

>The signatures are also shown with Claws Mails. Additionally, you do
>not want to spam people, you want them to read questions most easily
>so they can answer quickly.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Claudius
>--
>Consultant, n.:
> An ordinary man a long way from home.

>Please use GPG: ECB0C2C7 4A4C4046 446ADF86 C08112E5 D72CDBA4
>http://chubig.net telnet://nightfall.org:4242

1. It has been reported.

3. Oh, I thought that all clients do like Enigmail. It just shows blue/green banner with valid signatures. Blue for untrusted key and green for signed key.

Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys 4DB53CFE82A46728
> Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: APG v1.0.8

iQIuBAEBCAAYBQJPdgJZERxNaWthIFN1b21hbGFpbmVuAAoJEE21PP6CpGcoWUEP
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[Claudius Hubig]

Hello Mika,

Mika Suomalainen <mika.henr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 1. K9 Maill can only verify inline signatures.

Hrm. Report a bug? :)

> 2. Inline signature is easier to verify when reading mailing list archives.

Most archives have an option to download the ‘plain’ mail including
all MIME parts. I have to agree, though, that it is easier to have
the signature inline in this case.

> 3. Inline spams people who do not use gpg compatible email client :P

The signatures are also shown with Claws Mails. Additionally, you do
not want to spam people, you want them to read questions most easily
so they can answer quickly.

Best regards,

Claudius
--
Consultant, n.:
An ordinary man a long way from home.

Please use GPG: ECB0C2C7 4A4C4046 446ADF86 C08112E5 D72CDBA4
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[Tom H]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Mika Suomalainen
<mika.henr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> But some people like top posting, like me. I think that with top
> posting the new message is easier to read than, when it's below the quote.

http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser#What_is_top-posting_.28and_why_shouldn.27t_I_do_it.29.3F

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[Brian]

On Fri 30 Mar 2012 at 20:00:23 +0200, Leonard Le-Rey wrote:

> It is obviously not a driver problem, as the driver from Kyocera is
> the most recent and works fine on other systems (such as Ubuntu
> 11.10). So as you suggested, it is the cups which is affected - as
> reported by others. Hence I will have a look there (some took the cups
> from Ubuntu 11.10).

Is it CUPS or is it the printer? That is the question.

A way to explore this is:

1. Download cups-filters from unstable.

2. Open the package and go to the README and follow the instructions
which begin with the words 'To extract the Postscript output for'.
The PPD file is the one you have for your printer in /etc/cups/ppd.

3. Install the gv package. As root, 'chmod 777 /tmp/printout'. As a
user 'gv /tmp/printout'.

Post the output of 'ls -l /tmp/printout, and say what happens when you
attempt to open the file with gv.

> Here the content of my /var/log/cups/error_log

There doesn't appear to be anything of great consequence in it.

> E [30/Mar/2012:15:13:49 +0200] [Job 24] PDF file is damaged -
> attempting to reconstruct xref table...

Ghostscript will probably repair the xref table but use another PDF for
your tests if you feel uneasy about it.

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[Camaleón]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:14:33 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:

> Hint: Look for GPG signatures which mention "VERSION: APG" something,
> they are sent from Android phones.

I still prefer to use the old and good e-mail headers, which in your case
returns...

***
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120329 Icedove/10.0.3
***

... that you have no excuse for not bottom-posting ;-)

As per cell phone posters, to bottom-or-not it's just a matter of intention.

Greetings,

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 31.03.2012 11:52, Camaleón wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:14:33 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>
>> Hint: Look for GPG signatures which mention "VERSION: APG"
>> something, they are sent from Android phones.
>
> I still prefer to use the old and good e-mail headers, which in
> your case returns...
>
> *** User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.3)
> Gecko/20120329 Icedove/10.0.3 ***
>
> ... that you have no excuse for not bottom-posting ;-)
>
> As per cell phone posters, to bottom-or-not it's just a matter of
> intention.
>
> Greetings,
>

I think that I sent some emails to this thread from my phone with K9
Mail. Their headers probably mention K9 mail.

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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=OeTX
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Camaleón]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:32:45 -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:

> Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>
>> On 30.03.2012 20:22, Jon Dowland wrote:
>>> Debian list policy / code of conduct is NOT to top post. Please
>>> respect it.

>> Can you link me to Debian list policy / code of conduct? I think that I
>> might have missed that part.
>>
>
> (Illustrating the problems when people intermix top and bottom
> posting.....)
>
> That's what I thought, too, but then I checked:
> http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/
>
> And top vs. bottom posting does NOT seem to be addressed. Sort of
> surprised me.

It is mentioned in this page, which also contains good tips for posting:

http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists#Posting_Rules.2C_Guidelines.2C_and_Tips

***
Respond in Interleaved style. Unnecessary quotes should be trimmed and a
question should precede an answer.
***

Greetings,

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[Mihamina Rakotomandimby]

On Mar 30, 2012 6:36 PM, "Mika Suomalainen" <mika.henr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>

> Thanks :).

>
> But some people like top posting, like me. I think that with top
> posting the new message is easier to read than, when it's below the quote

Selfish.
What about people reading the thread years later?

Especially when inline responding (bottom) and your loosy style is mixed?

Really selfish.

[Camaleón]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:30:07 +0200, Tony van der Hoff wrote:

> On 30/03/12 17:55, Camaleón wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:36:25 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks :).
>>>
>>> But some people like top posting, like me. I think that with top
>>> posting the new message is easier to read than, when it's below the
>>> quote.
>>
>> That's up to you. And to me ;-)
>>
> Huh. My god is better than your god, as is my editor, my car, and my
> posting style. Anyone who disagrees is unworthy ;)

Not "unworthy" but a bit "selfish" for not keeping the mailing list
guidelines :-)

Greetings,

--
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[Miles Fidelman]

Camaleón wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:32:45 -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>
>> That's what I thought, too, but then I checked:
>> http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/
>>
>> And top vs. bottom posting does NOT seem to be addressed. Sort of
>> surprised me.
> It is mentioned in this page, which also contains good tips for posting:
>
> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists#Posting_Rules.2C_Guidelines.2C_and_Tips
>
> ***
> Respond in Interleaved style. Unnecessary quotes should be trimmed and a
> question should precede an answer.
> ***

Ahh missed that. Knew I needed another cup of coffee. And it explains
why I didn't find that when I tried searching the page for "top,"
"bottom," and "posting."

Miles

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 31.03.2012 12:04, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:
>
> On Mar 30, 2012 6:36 PM, "Mika Suomalainen"
> <mika.henr...@hotmail.com

I already changed to bottom posting in Iceweasel and K9 mail. But
isn't posting HTML also forbidden?

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPdtGbAAoJEE21PP6CpGcoQAwP/RWD+LeeofeHwpy0hvoidgtI
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zGcx3LObd1DZmdn3H8kI
=1UCr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Camaleón]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:00:23 +0200, Leonard Le-Rey wrote:

> 2012/3/30 Brian <ad...@cityscape.co.uk>:

(...)

>> The PDF file is unlikely to be the problem.
>>

> It is obviously not a driver problem, as the driver from Kyocera is the
> most recent and works fine on other systems (such as Ubuntu 11.10).

(...)

You can't know unless you try with a different driver (either generic PS
or PCL6) ;-)

You can also try to print a different PDF file with the usual PPD to
discard a problem in the pdfLaTex generated file. With a bit of luck
you'll be able to find a failure pattern.

Greetings,

--
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[Claudius Hubig]

Hello Mika,

Mika Suomalainen <mika.henr...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On 31.03.2012 12:04, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:
> > Especially when inline responding (bottom) and your loosy style is
> > mixed?

> I already changed to bottom posting in Iceweasel and K9 mail.

Thanks. Though one should also take the time to trim the previous
mail to the parts one actually responds to.

>But isn't posting HTML also forbidden?

Yes, although it is less of a problem for (most!) people, as their
clients either display the text-only or the HTML version, so adding
an HTML version ‘only’ increases the size of the email (by about
150%). Bad quoting styles, however, are always visible.

Did I mention that asking for a return receipt for a mailing list post
is kind of…strange? That is, do you really want all >30k subscribed
users to acknowledge the receipt of your post?

Best regards,

Claudius
--
I came to MIT to get an education for myself and a diploma for my mother.

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Cladius,

On 31.03.2012 13:02, Claudius Hubig wrote:
> Did I mention that asking for a return receipt for a mailing list
> post is kind of…strange? That is, do you really want all >30k
> subscribed users to acknowledge the receipt of your post?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Claudius

No, you didn't. I just like knowing that my emails are read/received
:). And I am getting maximum of 5 receipts from this list. Try asking
for receipts sometime :).

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPdul9AAoJEE21PP6CpGcoU5sQAKHhcvievK6TUGcY69bQ+HW+
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[PMA]

I've seen passionate debate on this issue, based
mainly on disrupted expectation (as the Bottom
guy opens the Top guy's email).

Seems to me the important thing is for a given
list to adopt one or the other style as standard
*for the list*.

Take a vote, asking, "Which is more important:
seeing the current message immediately (Top),
or keeping the flow in one-direction (Bottom)?"

PMA

P.S. ...unless, of course, a resolution would be
less fun than the debate.

Claudius Hubig wrote:
> Hello Mika,
>
> Mika Suomalainen<mika.henr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 31.03.2012 12:04, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:
>>> Especially when inline responding (bottom) and your loosy style is
>>> mixed?
>> I already changed to bottom posting in Iceweasel and K9 mail.
>
> Thanks. Though one should also take the time to trim the previous
> mail to the parts one actually responds to.
>
>> But isn't posting HTML also forbidden?
>
> Yes, although it is less of a problem for (most!) people, as their
> clients either display the text-only or the HTML version, so adding
> an HTML version ‘only’ increases the size of the email (by about
> 150%). Bad quoting styles, however, are always visible.
>
> Did I mention that asking for a return receipt for a mailing list post
> is kind of…strange? That is, do you really want all>30k subscribed
> users to acknowledge the receipt of your post?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Claudius


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[Claudius Hubig]

Hello Peter,

PMA <PeterAr...@aya.yale.edu> wrote:
> Take a vote,

That vote already happened many years ago.

> asking, "Which is more important:
> seeing the current message immediately (Top),
> or keeping the flow in one-direction (Bottom)?"

Neither. Interleaved style is the way to go.

Best regards,

Claudius
--
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[Tony van der Hoff]

On 31/03/12 16:40, PMA wrote:
> Seems to me the important thing is for a given
> list to adopt one or the other style as standard
> *for the list*.
>
> Take a vote, asking, "Which is more important:
> seeing the current message immediately (Top),
> or keeping the flow in one-direction (Bottom)?"
>

Who needs a vote? The issue was settled many years ago.

Before you started posting here, the polite thing to do would have been
to read the list guidelines, and apply them. Seeing as you appear too
intellectually challenged to find them for yourself, here is the link:

http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists#Posting_Rules.2C_Guidelines.2C_and_Tips

Under the heading "Posting Rules, Guidelines, and Tips" you'll see the
entry:

"Respond in Interleaved style. Unnecessary quotes should be trimmed and
a question should precede an answer."

Isn't that adequately clear? It isn't a question of individual
preferences, or your religious leanings, it's a list rule, to be obeyed
by all correspondents, which exists for the elucication of all.

To quote:
"Why all these rules? Busy people spend valuable time monitoring lists
and responding to questions. The recommended practices make these
activities more efficient and pleasant."

--
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Ariège, France |

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[Leonard Le-Rey]

2012/3/31 Camaleón <noel...@gmail.com>:

Hey guys, thanks for your answers!
So the current state is the following:

1.) With the Generic-PCL-6-PCL-XL, everything works fine and the PDF
is printed without any problems. This is fine for me for the moment,
of course, duplex and some other options are not available.

2.) With the PPD driver offered by Kyocera on their website or with
the driver offered by Debian/Testing, the printing of PDF documents
might fail (especially longer ones). On the other hand, it is no
problem to print a long Libre Office Writer document, with lots of
pictures.

So as you suggested, it is probably a cups problem. I have seen that
someone installed the cups of Ubuntu 11.10 for a similiar problem with
another printer...?

Best wishes,
leo

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[Brian]

On Sat 31 Mar 2012 at 20:28:09 +0200, Leonard Le-Rey wrote:

> Hey guys, thanks for your answers!
> So the current state is the following:
>
> 1.) With the Generic-PCL-6-PCL-XL, everything works fine and the PDF
> is printed without any problems. This is fine for me for the moment,
> of course, duplex and some other options are not available.

Generic PCL/6 PCL XL Printer - CUPS+Gutenprint offers duplex printing.
What are you using?

> 2.) With the PPD driver offered by Kyocera on their website or with
> the driver offered by Debian/Testing, the printing of PDF documents
> might fail (especially longer ones). On the other hand, it is no
> problem to print a long Libre Office Writer document, with lots of
> pictures.

One of life's mysteries! Libre Office's output for printing is (or
should be) in PDF format, so CUPS sees PDF input in either case.

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[Celejar]

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 17:55:31 +0200
Tony van der Hoff <to...@vanderhoff.org> wrote:

...

> Before you started posting here, the polite thing to do would have been
> to read the list guidelines, and apply them. Seeing as you appear too
> intellectually challenged to find them for yourself, here is the link:
>
> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists#Posting_Rules.2C_Guidelines.2C_and_Tips
>
> Under the heading "Posting Rules, Guidelines, and Tips" you'll see the
> entry:
> "Respond in Interleaved style. Unnecessary quotes should be trimmed and
> a question should precede an answer."
>
> Isn't that adequately clear? It isn't a question of individual
> preferences, or your religious leanings, it's a list rule, to be obeyed
> by all correspondents, which exists for the elucication of all.
>
> To quote:
> "Why all these rules? Busy people spend valuable time monitoring lists
> and responding to questions. The recommended practices make these
> activities more efficient and pleasant."

I'm not sure who writes these rules, and what their exact authority is,
but the page itself acknowledges that it does not constitute "official
information", and as others have noted, the official code of conduct
does not specify posting style.

Celejar

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[Camaleón]

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:08:19 -0400, Celejar wrote:

> On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 17:55:31 +0200
> Tony van der Hoff <to...@vanderhoff.org> wrote:
>
> ...
>
>> Before you started posting here, the polite thing to do would have been
>> to read the list guidelines, and apply them. Seeing as you appear too
>> intellectually challenged to find them for yourself, here is the link:
>>
>> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists#Posting_Rules.2C_Guidelines.2C_and_Tips
>>
>> Under the heading "Posting Rules, Guidelines, and Tips" you'll see the
>> entry:
>> "Respond in Interleaved style. Unnecessary quotes should be trimmed and
>> a question should precede an answer."
>>
>> Isn't that adequately clear? It isn't a question of individual
>> preferences, or your religious leanings, it's a list rule, to be obeyed
>> by all correspondents, which exists for the elucication of all.
>>
>> To quote:
>> "Why all these rules? Busy people spend valuable time monitoring lists
>> and responding to questions. The recommended practices make these
>> activities more efficient and pleasant."
>
> I'm not sure who writes these rules, and what their exact authority is,
> but the page itself acknowledges that it does not constitute "official
> information", and as others have noted, the official code of conduct
> does not specify posting style.

Those "rules" (I prefer to see them as "tips for good guidance") are
written by all of us, people like you or me, that is, people who
participate in the mailing lists.

Should someone wants (again) to open the debate about the proper way of
posting in a mailing list, I'd suggest doing a poll to see what the
majority of the participants have to say about the matter. I will be more
than happy to stick to what the most of the people wants.

Greetings,

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[Camaleón]

On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 20:28:09 +0200, Leonard Le-Rey wrote:

> 2012/3/31 Camaleón <noel...@gmail.com>:
>> On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:00:23 +0200, Leonard Le-Rey wrote:
>>
>>> 2012/3/30 Brian <ad...@cityscape.co.uk>:
>>
>> (...)
>>
>>>> The PDF file is unlikely to be the problem.
>>>>
>>> It is obviously not a driver problem, as the driver from Kyocera is
>>> the most recent and works fine on other systems (such as Ubuntu
>>> 11.10).
>>
>> (...)
>>
>> You can't know unless you try with a different driver (either generic
>> PS or PCL6) ;-)
>>
>> You can also try to print a different PDF file with the usual PPD to
>> discard a problem in the pdfLaTex generated file. With a bit of luck
>> you'll be able to find a failure pattern.
>>

> Hey guys, thanks for your answers!
> So the current state is the following:
>
> 1.) With the Generic-PCL-6-PCL-XL, everything works fine and the PDF is
> printed without any problems. This is fine for me for the moment, of
> course, duplex and some other options are not available.

Hey, good :-)

As Brian says, that PPD file should include duplex printing options, if
we carefully look inside we can see the available options:

***
http://www.openprinting.org/ppd-o-matic.php?driver=pxlcolor&printer=Generic-PCL_6_PCL_XL_Printer&show=1

*OpenUI *Duplex/Double-Sided Printing: PickOne
(...)
***

> 2.) With the PPD driver offered by Kyocera on their website or with the
> driver offered by Debian/Testing, the printing of PDF documents might
> fail (especially longer ones). On the other hand, it is no problem to
> print a long Libre Office Writer document, with lots of pictures.

When you encounter a problematic PDF file that rejects from printing, try
to convert it into PS and print instead the postscript file (you can use
GNOME or KDE embedded virtual printer to get a PS file or use "gs" to make
the conversion).

> So as you suggested, it is probably a cups problem. I have seen that
> someone installed the cups of Ubuntu 11.10 for a similiar problem with
> another printer...?

I would avoid that path. Any problem with Cups package should be reported
to Debian BTS so it can be corrected and all of Debian users benefit of it.

Greetings,

--
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[PMA]

Yes, and I'd suggest sending any future new subscriber a direct link
to the rules/tips agreed to -- or even the actual document -- rather
than insulting his intelligence later for not "finding for himself".

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[Camaleón]

On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 10:19:21 -0400, PMA wrote:

> Camaleón wrote:
>> On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:08:19 -0400, Celejar wrote:

(...)

>>> I'm not sure who writes these rules, and what their exact authority
>>> is, but the page itself acknowledges that it does not constitute
>>> "official information", and as others have noted, the official code of
>>> conduct does not specify posting style.
>>
>> Those "rules" (I prefer to see them as "tips for good guidance") are
>> written by all of us, people like you or me, that is, people who
>> participate in the mailing lists.
>>
>> Should someone wants (again) to open the debate about the proper way of
>> posting in a mailing list, I'd suggest doing a poll to see what the
>> majority of the participants have to say about the matter. I will be
>> more than happy to stick to what the most of the people wants.
>>
>

> Yes, and I'd suggest sending any future new subscriber a direct link to
> the rules/tips agreed to -- or even the actual document -- rather than
> insulting his intelligence later for not "finding for himself".

Nobody has been insulted :-?

I don't know what kind of information a user receives when is subscribed
to the lists because I'm not "subscribed", I just follow them, read and
post (this is an open list, no need for subscription).

Anyway, it's normal for mailing list newcomers to be unaware of these
conventions, that's why I usually "politely" note that html formatted
messages need to be avoided and also top-posting when I see a bad
formatted post.

Worth to remember that common sense is the best of the rules.

Greetings,

--
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[Camaleón]

El 2012-04-01 a las 09:44 -0400, Miles Fidelman escribió:

(sending back to the list)

> The question does raise two interesting points:
>
> - what IS the "official" process for setting rules (presumably, since
> the Debian project hosts these lists, and the servers they run on,
> somebody, through some process, has the authority to set rules for the
> lists, and post those rules to lists.debian.org) - but what are the
> details? anybody know?

I don't know, but the way this workes in other projects I've participated
these conventions are made and developed by their user members, which
includes all of us.

> - it turns out that there are TWO places that list rules of conduct for
> all Debian lists:
>
> http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ - which is silent on posting style
>
> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists - which recommends interleaved posting,
> BUT points to the above as the "official rules of conduct"
>
> Somewhat confusing.
>
> Miles Fidelman

IMO, they both complement each other.

The only difference between "www.debian.org" and "wiki.debian.org" is
that normal users can edit the latter but only users with commit rights
can alter the former.

Greetings,

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[PMA]

Camaleón wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 10:19:21 -0400, PMA wrote:
>
>> Camaleón wrote:
>>> On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:08:19 -0400, Celejar wrote:
>
> (...)
>
>>>> I'm not sure who writes these rules, and what their exact authority
>>>> is, but the page itself acknowledges that it does not constitute
>>>> "official information", and as others have noted, the official code of
>>>> conduct does not specify posting style.
>>>
>>> Those "rules" (I prefer to see them as "tips for good guidance") are
>>> written by all of us, people like you or me, that is, people who
>>> participate in the mailing lists.
>>>
>>> Should someone wants (again) to open the debate about the proper way of
>>> posting in a mailing list, I'd suggest doing a poll to see what the
>>> majority of the participants have to say about the matter. I will be
>>> more than happy to stick to what the most of the people wants.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, and I'd suggest sending any future new subscriber a direct link to
>> the rules/tips agreed to -- or even the actual document -- rather than
>> insulting his intelligence later for not "finding for himself".
>
> Nobody has been insulted :-?

Granted, no-one has screamed. I saw, BTW, only an unattributed quote,
so don't know whose it was.

> I don't know what kind of information a user receives when is subscribed
> to the lists because I'm not "subscribed", I just follow them, read and
> post (this is an open list, no need for subscription).
>
> Anyway, it's normal for mailing list newcomers to be unaware of these
> conventions, that's why I usually "politely" note that html formatted
> messages need to be avoided and also top-posting when I see a bad
> formatted post.
>
> Worth to remember that common sense is the best of the rules.
>
> Greetings,


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[PMA]

Fair enough -- mea culpa.

Lisi wrote:

> On Sunday 01 April 2012 16:41:50 PMA wrote:
>>> Nobody has been insulted :-?
>>
>> Granted, no-one has screamed. I saw, BTW, only an unattributed quote,
>> so don't know whose it was.
>

> In this case (as often!) you needed to have read the thread rather than
> reacting to an out of context quote. We have all, of course, done the
> latter. ;-)
>
> Lisi

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[Lisi]

On Sunday 01 April 2012 16:41:50 PMA wrote:

> > Nobody has been insulted :-?
>
> Granted, no-one has screamed.   I saw, BTW, only an unattributed quote,
> so don't know whose it was.

In this case (as often!) you needed to have read the thread rather than
reacting to an out of context quote. We have all, of course, done the
latter. ;-)

Lisi

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01.04.2012 19:32, PMA wrote:
> Fair enough -- mea culpa.
>
> Lisi wrote:
>> On Sunday 01 April 2012 16:41:50 PMA wrote:

<...>

Didn't this whole thread start, because some people (I) top-posted?

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)

Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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[Brian]

On Sun 01 Apr 2012 at 14:04:05 +0000, Camaleón wrote:

> ***
> http://www.openprinting.org/ppd-o-matic.php?driver=pxlcolor&printer=Generic-PCL_6_PCL_XL_Printer&show=1
>
> *OpenUI *Duplex/Double-Sided Printing: PickOne
> (...)
> ***

Without leaving the comfort of your fireside and with foomatic-db-engine
installed:

/usr/lib/cups/driver/foomatic --help

/usr/lib/cups/driver/foomatic list | grep '6/PCL XL'

/usr/lib/cups/driver/foomatic cat "foomatic:Generic-PCL_6_PCL_XL_Printer-pxlcolor.ppd" | less

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01.04.2012 19:42, Camaleón wrote:

> On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 19:32:47 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>
>> On 01.04.2012 19:32, PMA wrote:
>>> Fair enough -- mea culpa.
>>>
>>> Lisi wrote:
>>>> On Sunday 01 April 2012 16:41:50 PMA wrote:
>> <...>
>>
>> Didn't this whole thread start, because some people (I)
>> top-posted?
>

> To be more precise, it started because someone (you) asked what was
> that ;-)
>
> Greetings,
>

And after that I was taught to bottom post and so on...

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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[Camaleón]

On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 19:32:47 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:

> On 01.04.2012 19:32, PMA wrote:
>> Fair enough -- mea culpa.
>>
>> Lisi wrote:
>>> On Sunday 01 April 2012 16:41:50 PMA wrote:
> <...>
>
> Didn't this whole thread start, because some people (I) top-posted?

To be more precise, it started because someone (you) asked what was
that ;-)

Greetings,

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[Camaleón]

On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 19:45:52 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:

> On 01.04.2012 19:42, Camaleón wrote:
>> On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 19:32:47 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>>
>>> On 01.04.2012 19:32, PMA wrote:
>>>> Fair enough -- mea culpa.
>>>>
>>>> Lisi wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday 01 April 2012 16:41:50 PMA wrote:
>>> <...>
>>>
>>> Didn't this whole thread start, because some people (I) top-posted?
>>
>> To be more precise, it started because someone (you) asked what was
>> that ;-)
>>
>>
>>

> And after that I was taught to bottom post and so on...

That's what happens when someone opens Pandora's Box, you never know how
we'll gonna end.

Greetings,

--
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[Brian]

On Sun 01 Apr 2012 at 19:32:47 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:

> Didn't this whole thread start, because some people (I) top-posted?

It has continued to its present length of nearly fifty posts after you
said:

> Could someone explain me, what are "top- and bottom posting"
> styles?

If Debian had an award for Most Inane Question of the Year yours would
most definitely be well in the running based on the Search Engine Test.
Applying a few of the other criteria the judges might consider:

Does it help the person who started the thread?
Does it add value to the topic in the subject header?
Does having it labelled [OT] make it more acceptable?
Does the poster appear to be wearing a trolling costume?

you can anticipate being a winner.

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01.04.2012 19:55, Brian wrote:
> On Sun 01 Apr 2012 at 19:32:47 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>
>> Didn't this whole thread start, because some people (I)
>> top-posted?
>
> It has continued to its present length of nearly fifty posts after
> you said:
>
>> Could someone explain me, what are "top- and bottom posting"
>> styles?

Which is the most long thread on this list right now? :D

> If Debian had an award for Most Inane Question of the Year yours
> would most definitely be well in the running based on the Search
> Engine Test. Applying a few of the other criteria the judges might
> consider:
>
> Does it help the person who started the thread?

I think that it did.

> Does it add value to the topic in the subject header?

I'm not sure, probably.

> Does having it labelled [OT] make it more acceptable?

I didn't label this. This was some other thread at first :).

> Does the poster appear to be wearing a trolling costume?

I don't think so.

> you can anticipate being a winner.
>
>

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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FLt/wk6/wTDDKFz/eWICjRo5Dtm4xVEHXVsv1cg3uDuBw/XT0SxzUnj+b1jHWuAn
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o1bQyngIVwaV9tWlzExvafTK0uf0j9RgM9u5v9l0jzPwhdlrB/P8UEtOrnywn/IG
YY6q2pePYhEde/Whb9ohC4xL0Ec2qiyScCceveNicsZvWImiwTuejhF+duYh6i+4
aMmwoyhvUVEjCovAAeuw9GpFi0NM6Il5nqKPmcHZFJV12Ot9CMTAaHCCorxn1yW0
4Dun7QnxRnGhevLPsfRAncOAnWN2KXsQZJMsC/0lq2z6yx+VVj8WrXh6vZVAkaGo
izpk1gL+WUQUwpXPmq410tA+3U/9qF2e23A0DOYEK1hm481Jf//m//vNdRIQZnYx
BdY4+EWAyAfDpM5Pt/xk
=59Q+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Doug]

On 04/01/2012 12:21 PM, Lisi wrote:
> On Sunday 01 April 2012 16:41:50 PMA wrote:
>>> Nobody has been insulted :-?
>> Granted, no-one has screamed. I saw, BTW, only an unattributed quote,
>> so don't know whose it was.
> In this case (as often!) you needed to have read the thread rather than
> reacting to an out of context quote. We have all, of course, done the
> latter. ;-)
>
> Lisi
>
>

I thought this topic was thoroughly killed years ago. I am killing it
herewith:
I am filtering out all further mails of this nature. --doug

--
Blessed are the peacekeepers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M. Greeley

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[Miles Fidelman]

Camaleón wrote:
> El 2012-04-01 a las 09:44 -0400, Miles Fidelman escribió:
>
> (sending back to the list)
>
>> Camaleón wrote:
>>> Those "rules" (I prefer to see them as "tips for good guidance") are
>>> written by all of us, people like you or me, that is, people who
>>> participate in the mailing lists.
>> The question does raise two interesting points:
>>
>> - what IS the "official" process for setting rules (presumably, since
>> the Debian project hosts these lists, and the servers they run on,
>> somebody, through some process, has the authority to set rules for the
>> lists, and post those rules to lists.debian.org) - but what are the
>> details? anybody know?
> I don't know, but the way this workes in other projects I've participated
> these conventions are made and developed by their user members, which
> includes all of us.

Right... but in this case, the Debian project is a pretty big one, with
some formal governance, and the rules are written to govern a whole
bunch of lists. So I kind of wonder if there's any formality somewhere
along the chain, like there is with committing things to the Debian repos.

Just sort of curious at this point.

Cheers,

Miles

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra

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[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 01 apr 12, 16:49:34, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>
> Right... but in this case, the Debian project is a pretty big one,
> with some formal governance, and the rules are written to govern a
> whole bunch of lists. So I kind of wonder if there's any formality
> somewhere along the chain, like there is with committing things to
> the Debian repos.

This seems like an interesting question for people not following Debian
very closely so I think it deserves to be discussed here (but I'm
changing the subject).

By default Debian works as a do-ocracy. That means that whoever is
(currently) in charge over an area, in our case the mailing lists,
(a.k.a. the listmasters) are responsible for amending the rules.

Problems or wishes can be reported against the pseudo-package
lists.debian.org[1], but do (as usual) check existing bug reports and it
helps a lot if you include a patch as well.

Assuming the listmasters, or any other Debian Developer (DD), have done
something that others do not agree with the issue is usually brought
before a larger audience (typically debian-devel for technical issues,
debian-project for things such as the lists' CoC). Most issues are then
solved after (sometimes lengthy) discussions.

If a consensus can still not be reached there are two options: 1) a
General Resolution (GR) to override a DD decision or 2) the Technical
Committee.

While a GR can be proposed only by Debian Developers anyone can bring a
matter before the Technical Committee[2]. Please note that both options
are seldom used as they are considered very disrupting, demotivating,
etc. etc.

At any point during the above one may involve also the DPL (Debian
Project Leader), assuming s/he may have missed the issue. The DPL may
then act as a mediator, but could (in extreme cases) also revoke a
delegation[3].

For all the gory details read the Constitution.

[1] most if not all non-packaging areas have pseudo-packages in the BTS,
the one notable exception being DSA (Debian System Administrators) who
use RT (for security/privacy reasons?).
[2] issues brought to the Technical Committee are, of course, of a
technical nature. See the bugs for the corresponding pseudo-package for
more insight
[3] some non-packaging jobs in Debian are done by DPL Delegates, e.g.
the ftpmasters or DSA.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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[Camaleón]

On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 16:49:34 -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:

> Camaleón wrote:
>> El 2012-04-01 a las 09:44 -0400, Miles Fidelman escribió:
>>
>> (sending back to the list)
>>
>>> Camaleón wrote:
>>>> Those "rules" (I prefer to see them as "tips for good guidance") are
>>>> written by all of us, people like you or me, that is, people who
>>>> participate in the mailing lists.
>>> The question does raise two interesting points:
>>>
>>> - what IS the "official" process for setting rules (presumably, since
>>> the Debian project hosts these lists, and the servers they run on,
>>> somebody, through some process, has the authority to set rules for the
>>> lists, and post those rules to lists.debian.org) - but what are the
>>> details? anybody know?
>> I don't know, but the way this workes in other projects I've
>> participated these conventions are made and developed by their user
>> members, which includes all of us.
>
> Right... but in this case, the Debian project is a pretty big one, with
> some formal governance, and the rules are written to govern a whole
> bunch of lists. So I kind of wonder if there's any formality somewhere
> along the chain, like there is with committing things to the Debian
> repos.
>
> Just sort of curious at this point.

Though I know this won't fill up your thirst for knowledge, in the
absence of more information on this regard (on this "policy") I keep as
good what is written at Debian website and their wiki.

For a deep look inside this, I would ask into Debian project mailing
list, or another mailing list that suits for this question.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón

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[Miles Fidelman]

Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Du, 01 apr 12, 16:49:34, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>> Right... but in this case, the Debian project is a pretty big one,
>> with some formal governance, and the rules are written to govern a
>> whole bunch of lists. So I kind of wonder if there's any formality
>> somewhere along the chain, like there is with committing things to
>> the Debian repos.
> This seems like an interesting question for people not following Debian
> very closely so I think it deserves to be discussed here (but I'm
> changing the subject).
>

<details snipped>

Andrei, Most informative. Thanks, Miles

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra



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[Jon Dowland]

On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 12:02:21PM +0200, Claudius Hubig wrote:
> Did I mention that asking for a return receipt for a mailing list post
> is kind of…strange? That is, do you really want all >30k subscribed
> users to acknowledge the receipt of your post?

I am luckily insulated from a lot of these things, as my client does not
honour return receipts and opts for the text portion. But, have we really
had return receipts, HTML mail and top-posting all in the same thread? ☹

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[Mika Suomalainen]

On 03.04.2012 17:42, Jon Dowland wrote:
> But, have we really
> had return receipts, HTML mail and top-posting all in the same thread? ☹

Yes we did, but you are forgetting GPG clearsigning vs GPG S/MIME and
was there something else... ☺

--
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys 4DB53CFE82A46728
> Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728

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[Jon Dowland]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 09:58:34PM +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
> 3. Oh, I thought that all clients do like Enigmail. It just shows blue/green
> banner with valid signatures. Blue for untrusted key and green for signed
> key.

Some may be interested in 't-prot', which (with a willing mail client) can be
configured to strip out inline PGP and replace with a summary instead.

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[Jon Dowland]

On 03/04/12 17:06, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
> Yes we did, but you are forgetting GPG clearsigning vs GPG S/MIME and
> was there something else... ☺

I missed that part of the discussion (but that has reminded me to
re-setup my mailer to sign ☺)

[Chris Bannister]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 09:38:30AM -0700, Kelly Clowers wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 08:55, Paul Johnson <ba...@ursamundi.org> wrote:
> >> There are many kinds of people, so everyone has different opinion
> >> about top/bottom posting :)
>
> I have never understood why though, aside from people getting
> used it due to Outlook and some others horrible defaults...

AIUI, corporates like it because each email has *all* the messages and
hence a complete record for audit/"witch hunting" etc.

--
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
-- Napoleon Bonaparte

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[Chris Bannister]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 04:03:05PM +0000, Camaleón wrote:
> Bottom posting has been since long the preferred method for newsgroups
> and then mailing lists but not for forums nor business communications.
>
> A bottom posting style does not mean "all the stuff goes to the bottom"

Yes it does! That is what bottom posting is.

> but put in chunks between context, replying inline, as Wikipedia article
> says ("interleaved style").

There is also "conversation style" or "interleaved style" which is the
tried and proven preferred way for mailing lists; i.e the style you and
many others use.

If I was using "bottom posting" I'd have just dumped everything at the
bottom regardless.

--
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
-- Napoleon Bonaparte


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[Chris Bannister]

On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 12:42:53PM +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
> I already changed to bottom posting in Iceweasel and K9 mail. But
> isn't posting HTML also forbidden?

It isn't a matter of whether it's forbidden or not, its a matter of
whether you want someone to bother taking time out to help you. If you
post in a style that pisses people off then they are not going to bother
reading any posts by that said person, pure and simple. Ok, there seems
to be the odd masochist around, but in general, if you don't take time
to prepare an easy to read post why should anybody take time to help
you?

--
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
-- Napoleon Bonaparte


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[Chris Bannister]

On Tue, Apr 03, 2012 at 07:06:03PM +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
> On 03.04.2012 17:42, Jon Dowland wrote:
> > But, have we really
> > had return receipts, HTML mail and top-posting all in the same thread? ☹
>
> Yes we did, but you are forgetting GPG clearsigning vs GPG S/MIME and
> was there something else... ☺

Wow, you trimmed your post! Well done. ;) And you also got rid of that
*awwwfulll* GPG rubbish at the end of your post. Please keep it up.

--
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-- Napoleon Bonaparte

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

No, I had problem in Icedove that it did not sign messages. That issue is fixed now :)

Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys 4DB53CFE82A46728
> Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728

>> NOTE: The old key (62FE66853913CB03) expires on 03.04.2012!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

Version: APG v1.0.8

iQIuBAEBCAAYBQJPf0KXERxNaWthIFN1b21hbGFpbmVuAAoJEE21PP6CpGcoycAP
/iZU6Cdm8buOgsIT0LQEekvpC+ryn00/bUX9Xxcs9VvvBcMeXghr8TMnvbMnRLz1
bzlo/hYvQh1EX62oT9JW8NkKz6ydq3QBecdPAGtYdaMVm1pNPkPITA8VF3GQHAvr
IMntClybbUIQU05GouahlZH0rMwxkHz5fx84Uwi5EPnxQ2D3pW74VYFtXSBdbRVz
qhCQNOXg43G8mHlu3B7rE96VS49taSyZVU8Ro5AcifbvKsjO789Bb+iiaxhJe/WF
0ysTAYmiS4HWCF0xVPgrZZjMMPJQmSGWi8aWAIA8Bi+jyauxsOcjci5/oBqInqn+
41RmFmalE7GRnEDRXBiPyrBUqopn6B974ZKQXzkqrMK8l97mgrPjgwcdIaOnYZwu
1j5cCvep2jy6Otu72Vx9oeojBXjZ1x5GkDqrcxLFJSb/fDM19OpQ1JwJv+vg1QQX
ovU0PPkXWye12HDSINaAnUa1SiYpKVDEJdsdcNDNsXZJC3WeRWDs2S7VlLm5DG96
kXMcXp6HdhEUQxClgTc7vEQSkIFtmbYKspi0MoKRtN+f12jTcfBMZMv3k5hQVaOH
iDxYENBYIzIrn/QvtgiJ9KRD71EJDdVL8V6Rd0he2sbnXtk5Dq/3dyCN9VzhIOhb
YQ//Ph5VfeS73JOJV2jAMbqakwqeNZx1TvaEEsRS08IK
=iPZG
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Walter Hurry]

On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 22:23:07 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:

> iQIuBAEBCAAYBQJPf0KXERxNaWthIFN1b21hbGFpbmVuAAoJEE21PP6CpGcoycAP
> /iZU6Cdm8buOgsIT0LQEekvpC+ryn00/bUX9Xxcs9VvvBcMeXghr8TMnvbMnRLz1
> bzlo/hYvQh1EX62oT9JW8NkKz6ydq3QBecdPAGtYdaMVm1pNPkPITA8VF3GQHAvr
> IMntClybbUIQU05GouahlZH0rMwxkHz5fx84Uwi5EPnxQ2D3pW74VYFtXSBdbRVz
> qhCQNOXg43G8mHlu3B7rE96VS49taSyZVU8Ro5AcifbvKsjO789Bb+iiaxhJe/WF
> 0ysTAYmiS4HWCF0xVPgrZZjMMPJQmSGWi8aWAIA8Bi+jyauxsOcjci5/oBqInqn+
> 41RmFmalE7GRnEDRXBiPyrBUqopn6B974ZKQXzkqrMK8l97mgrPjgwcdIaOnYZwu
> 1j5cCvep2jy6Otu72Vx9oeojBXjZ1x5GkDqrcxLFJSb/fDM19OpQ1JwJv+vg1QQX
> ovU0PPkXWye12HDSINaAnUa1SiYpKVDEJdsdcNDNsXZJC3WeRWDs2S7VlLm5DG96
> kXMcXp6HdhEUQxClgTc7vEQSkIFtmbYKspi0MoKRtN+f12jTcfBMZMv3k5hQVaOH
> iDxYENBYIzIrn/QvtgiJ9KRD71EJDdVL8V6Rd0he2sbnXtk5Dq/3dyCN9VzhIOhb
> YQ//Ph5VfeS73JOJV2jAMbqakwqeNZx1TvaEEsRS08IK =iPZG -----END PGP
> SIGNATURE-----

How utterly ridiculous and pointless to sign messages posted to mailing
lists. I agree with Chris Bannister.

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 07.04.2012 01:02, Walter Hurry wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 22:23:07 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>
>> iQIuBAEBCAAYBQJPf0KXERxNaWthIFN1b21hbGFpbmVuAAoJEE21PP6CpGcoycAP
>> /iZU6Cdm8buOgsIT0LQEekvpC+ryn00/bUX9Xxcs9VvvBcMeXghr8TMnvbMnRLz1
>> bzlo/hYvQh1EX62oT9JW8NkKz6ydq3QBecdPAGtYdaMVm1pNPkPITA8VF3GQHAvr
>> IMntClybbUIQU05GouahlZH0rMwxkHz5fx84Uwi5EPnxQ2D3pW74VYFtXSBdbRVz
>> qhCQNOXg43G8mHlu3B7rE96VS49taSyZVU8Ro5AcifbvKsjO789Bb+iiaxhJe/WF
>> 0ysTAYmiS4HWCF0xVPgrZZjMMPJQmSGWi8aWAIA8Bi+jyauxsOcjci5/oBqInqn+
>> 41RmFmalE7GRnEDRXBiPyrBUqopn6B974ZKQXzkqrMK8l97mgrPjgwcdIaOnYZwu
>> 1j5cCvep2jy6Otu72Vx9oeojBXjZ1x5GkDqrcxLFJSb/fDM19OpQ1JwJv+vg1QQX
>> ovU0PPkXWye12HDSINaAnUa1SiYpKVDEJdsdcNDNsXZJC3WeRWDs2S7VlLm5DG96
>> kXMcXp6HdhEUQxClgTc7vEQSkIFtmbYKspi0MoKRtN+f12jTcfBMZMv3k5hQVaOH
>> iDxYENBYIzIrn/QvtgiJ9KRD71EJDdVL8V6Rd0he2sbnXtk5Dq/3dyCN9VzhIOhb
>> YQ//Ph5VfeS73JOJV2jAMbqakwqeNZx1TvaEEsRS08IK =iPZG -----END PGP
>> SIGNATURE-----
>
> How utterly ridiculous and pointless to sign messages posted to
> mailing lists. I agree with Chris Bannister.
>
>

In case you haven't noticed, there are other people who are signing
messages, which are sent to mailing lists.
Do you think that it would be better if people spoofed my email and
sent offensive messages to the list and noone had any way to check did
I really sent those messages?

- --

Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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=XFDi
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 07.04.2012 02:28, Paul Johnson wrote:
>
> On Apr 6, 2012 12:24 PM, "Mika Suomalainen" <s.mi...@gmail.com

> <mailto:s.mi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> No, I had problem in Icedove that it did not sign messages. That
>> issue
> is fixed now :)
>

> Would you mind using MIME for that instead of including it in the
> message? Makes MIME handling a lot easier and it's largely
> ignorable if someone doesn't have PGP support available.
>

GPG Inline signature is easier to verify if you copy-paste that email
from mailing list archive.

I cannot use S/MIME, because it's not supported by APG nor K9 Mail.

- --

Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPf/mDAAoJEE21PP6CpGcoP3IP/0b/XuiUiONEArBHCWTQjheI
9iBYgkHhhDx9MrBcfubbf5pPE7m2eySgMgRZReAP7bLbL2sLo09RF8VNFQ2g/eCr
z9mMUu9t0LIn7Hffw/t6nSuYJdOVWwAIgZQD2RkhImhNwladyJUpBldHB44UxwLE
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iV5+c5KrWESDuG6/94tV
=pN4z

-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


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[Wayne Topa]

On 04/07/2012 04:16 AM, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1

<---snip -- >

>>
>> How utterly ridiculous and pointless to sign messages posted to
>> mailing lists. I agree with Chris Bannister.

As do I,

>>
>
> In case you haven't noticed, there are other people who are signing
> messages, which are sent to mailing lists.
> Do you think that it would be better if people spoofed my email and
> sent offensive messages to the list and noone had any way to check did
> I really sent those messages?
>

Who would want to spoof YOUR Mail.

I have been on this list for 19 years now and do not recall anyone being
spoofed. From the tenor of your mails, I doubt anyone would gain
anything from it.

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Teach a man to fish, feed him for life

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 07.04.2012 12:11, Wayne Topa wrote:
> On 04/07/2012 04:16 AM, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
> <---snip -- >
>>>
>>> How utterly ridiculous and pointless to sign messages posted
>>> to mailing lists. I agree with Chris Bannister.
>
> As do I,
>>>
>>
>> In case you haven't noticed, there are other people who are
>> signing messages, which are sent to mailing lists. Do you think
>> that it would be better if people spoofed my email and sent
>> offensive messages to the list and noone had any way to check
>> did I really sent those messages?
>>
>
> Who would want to spoof YOUR Mail.
>
> I have been on this list for 19 years now and do not recall anyone
> being spoofed. From the tenor of your mails, I doubt anyone would
> gain anything from it.
>

Wanting to spoof and being able to spoof are two different things.

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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=2zdT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Scott Ferguson]

On 07/04/12 18:16, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
> On 07.04.2012 01:02, Walter Hurry wrote:
>> On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 22:23:07 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:

<snipped>

>>> SIGNATURE-----
>
>> How utterly ridiculous and pointless to sign messages posted to
>> mailing lists. I agree with Chris Bannister.

Likewise :-(

>
>
>
> In case you haven't noticed, there are other people who are signing
> messages, which are sent to mailing lists.

Some of those people do so to authenticate that they have the authority
they claim, others are w*nkers and/or just ill-informed.

> Do you think that it would be better if people spoofed my email

Is that something you expect? That's a rhetorical question :-)

For the purposes of intelligent discussion let's pretend that a spoofed
email *could* be published:-


PGP won't stop that - *even if you knew how to sign post properly*[*1].
It's maths not magic. All it guarantees is that the message has not been
altered.

How do we know who you are? Without a chain of trust your key is
worthless in establishing your identification. The real Mika Suomalainen
may be someone whose reputation you wish to tarnish. No more unlikely
than the scenario that you propose your *invalid* digital signatures
would protect against.

What's to stop you, or someone claiming to be you, from posting unsigned
messages - then claiming it's not you because it wasn't signed with the
same key?

How do we know you control your computer and your private key?


[*1] if you believe people should copy, paste and edit your post, and
download you key - in the misguided belief it'll validate something...
you're mistaken.


Note that Thunderbird and Enigmail are available for Android - and they
will correctly sign posts so that they will validate.



Kind regards (and Happy Religious Festival)

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[Scott Ferguson]

On 07/04/12 19:28, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
> On 07.04.2012 12:11, Wayne Topa wrote:
>> On 04/07/2012 04:16 AM, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
>> <---snip -- >
>>>>
>>>> How utterly ridiculous and pointless to sign messages posted
>>>> to mailing lists. I agree with Chris Bannister.
>
>> As do I,
>>>>
>>>
>>> In case you haven't noticed, there are other people who are
>>> signing messages, which are sent to mailing lists. Do you think
>>> that it would be better if people spoofed my email and sent
>>> offensive messages to the list and noone had any way to check
>>> did I really sent those messages?
>>>
>
>> Who would want to spoof YOUR Mail.
>
>> I have been on this list for 19 years now and do not recall anyone
>> being spoofed.

Likewise

>> From the tenor of your mails, I doubt anyone would
>> gain anything from it.

Apart from Mika... in which case he's best to not sign his posts and
claim his account was hijacked by an idiot.

>
>
> Wanting to spoof and being able to spoof are two different things.

A giraffe and a zebra are two different things also. So what?


Do you even know what spoofing is?
What makes you think a spoofed email address is going to get published
and why haven't you filed a bug report?



Kind regards

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 07.04.2012 12:48, Scott Ferguson wrote:
> On 07/04/12 19:28, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>> On 07.04.2012 12:11, Wayne Topa wrote:
>>> On 04/07/2012 04:16 AM, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
>>> <---snip -- >
>>>>>
>>>>> How utterly ridiculous and pointless to sign messages
>>>>> posted to mailing lists. I agree with Chris Bannister.
>>
>>> As do I,
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In case you haven't noticed, there are other people who are
>>>> signing messages, which are sent to mailing lists. Do you
>>>> think that it would be better if people spoofed my email and
>>>> sent offensive messages to the list and noone had any way to
>>>> check did I really sent those messages?
>>>>
>>
>>> Who would want to spoof YOUR Mail.
>>
>>> I have been on this list for 19 years now and do not recall
>>> anyone being spoofed.
>
> Likewise
>
>>> From the tenor of your mails, I doubt anyone would gain
>>> anything from it.
>
> Apart from Mika... in which case he's best to not sign his posts
> and claim his account was hijacked by an idiot.

http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct

>>
>>
>> Wanting to spoof and being able to spoof are two different
>> things.
>
> A giraffe and a zebra are two different things also. So what?
>
>
> Do you even know what spoofing is?

Forging email to look like being send from another address unless it
has got a different meaning lately.

> What makes you think a spoofed email address is going to get
> published and why haven't you filed a bug report?

As far as I know, this list is unmoderated and everyone can post here.
If I understood correctly, it also means that there is no checking is
email address spoofed or not.

>
>
> Kind regards

>


- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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=BBss
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Scott Ferguson]

On 07/04/12 20:25, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
> On 07.04.2012 12:48, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>> On 07/04/12 19:28, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>>> On 07.04.2012 12:11, Wayne Topa wrote:
>>>> On 04/07/2012 04:16 AM, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
>>>> <---snip -- >
>>>>>>

<snipped>
>
> http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct

Pay particular attention to the last point two points and consider how
many people endorse your line of reasoning.

<snipped>

> If I understood correctly, it also means that there is no checking is
> email address spoofed or not.

Spam control using SPF maybe??

ie. not requiring people subscribe has nothing to do with checking that
messages come from valid mailers.

Unmoderated means no official moderator/s, not that the list isn't
self-moderating. ;-)

NOTE: I'm not telling you *not* to sign your mails - just your
justification for doing so is false, and your signature is invalid.

If the signature was valid, those of us that do use Engimail *wouldn't*
see that chunk of text.

Kind regards

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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

As far as I know, I have valid signature. That block which was pasted
here is shown as invalid, because the one who first started
complaining about it didn't use Enigmail and/or pasted only the
signature block without message which it belongs to.

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPgB6xAAoJEE21PP6CpGcoQcMP/R0t9t1kUx1eZpCdscqQEWJu
3sDcECYZcuGvtQkuhceTjcNT/7BmYPA1d5ywiritaZRlQjVVzn4kRA1t3vOmREi3
6hY+xfoPhymtkMzCQWQOhfQCPNOi+M5pB6csYZqonsKdvEFih4VTVU9MFwVQy+mm
eA92fUHEL69/aLB01Bgfk2h4wQh+qC8CqCCdS5uO3JE1w7gP/y4yyriWgw3G8Xb7
YsoIeg++ny+ha29m4zfbdggE1i9ObTHpiU6NU799PPPLCPD3Daj4DbLVYxNx24JL
M6d+Nj8u9zic2ZGtOsms6woZY5xZ+mNGfqrwpCxLF2p6ouChyREZmKbMcKrtP0P1
QoJfe3Igug1BRkvPHDd2z3bLtsJSECbfvjKsW5A0MnQ5WNgCvDZXM3hYMZOsbjPL
JkPYBbgtvGUuTsjTU743VxEM6IV1MiDIlExlz5/osBMg+gWz75ykbsHR9Y+uE6qJ
L1ee1iHXKrYAfTjFhjMtGqjHr+XdMyeYdtEOuUWvvlKnXBjfl6Rqs4TJgSdqBT4l
pyNkSgOuJMJsVmPMfAoUY5QJwnCIy2/4ZxrsYCLqV8KFj8jJblnrRWvCU5jI163R
rF7Z1BrKxW7mMm1AhIp0A/6EKvgqSN3QuGoYMN04Wab8BlZmqxyWMGUeZtSUFs6F
OAtuOPlhEWUpc3gWvES6
=Ao+i
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[richard]

The other thing Mika, apart from that huge chunk of signature, why on
earth ask for a return receipt.
Thats crazy on a mailing list unless you want to see how mant actually
read your postings.
I use Claws mail ans I can read mail without sending a receipt,pretty
sure Evo does the same, nearly all the linux mail clients are able to
read mail without sending a receipt.
Its only MS based mail clients that will send a receipt on opening a
mail, and this is NOT a windows list.
mail

--

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Richard Bown

e-mail: ric...@g8jvm.com




Escaped for gmail, Now hosted by SimplyMailSolutions :) ;)
Please avoid using old e-mail address of richar...@blueyonder.co.uk

nil carborundum a illegitemis
##################################################################################
Ham Call G8JVM . OS Fedora FC16 x86_64 on a Dell Insiron N5030 laptop
Maidenhead QRA: IO82SP38, LAT. 52 39.720' N LONG. 2 28.171 W ( degs
mins ) QRV HF + VHF Microwave 23 cms:140W,13 cms:100W,6 cms:10W & 3
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[Mika Suomalainen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

<...>

> The other thing Mika, apart from that huge chunk of signature, why
> on earth ask for a return receipt. Thats crazy on a mailing list
> unless you want to see how mant actually read your postings. I use
> Claws mail ans I can read mail without sending a receipt,pretty
> sure Evo does the same, nearly all the linux mail clients are able
> to read mail without sending a receipt. Its only MS based mail
> clients that will send a receipt on opening a mail, and this is NOT
> a windows list. mail
>

I have now disabled in case it annoys you. I answered that question
one time before in this same thread.

- --
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
> 4DB53CFE82A46728 Key fingerprint = 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65
> 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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=FcBe
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[PMA]

I'm not sure "utterly" is quite the word.
Nobody in signing thinks a signature is
needed to identify him.

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[Indulekha]

In linux.debian.user, Richard <ric...@g8jvm.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Apr 2012 14:02:12 +0300
> Mika Suomalainen <mika.henr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>

> The other thing Mika, apart from that huge chunk of signature, why on
> earth ask for a return receipt.

It does tend to announce to the recipient that the sender has
a wildly exaggerated sense of self-importance, which I suppose
could be construed as useful. :)

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[Lisi]

On Saturday 07 April 2012 15:21:44 Indulekha wrote:
> In linux.debian.user, Richard <ric...@g8jvm.com> wrote:
> > The other thing Mika, apart from that huge chunk of signature, why on
> > earth ask for a return receipt.

> It does tend to announce to the recipient that the sender has
> a wildly exaggerated sense of self-importance, which I suppose
> could be construed as useful. :)

I am very wary of requests for return receipts: it is/would be a very good
way for a bot to identify which of the email addresses it had generated were
valid. I never (I hope!) send them.

Lisi

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[Indulekha]

In linux.debian.user, PMA <PeterAr...@aya.yale.edu>
wrote:

>
> Nobody in signing thinks a signature is
> needed to identify him.
>

Do you haff any papers to prove zeese are your papers?

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[Camaleón]

On Sat, 07 Apr 2012 06:11:19 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 04:03:05PM +0000, Camaleón wrote:
>> Bottom posting has been since long the preferred method for newsgroups
>> and then mailing lists but not for forums nor business communications.
>>
>> A bottom posting style does not mean "all the stuff goes to the bottom"
>
> Yes it does! That is what bottom posting is.

No sir, is just the name what is misleading. "Bottom posting" also
applies for an inline style. Regardless its name, the main idea remains
the same: the reply goes below of the text you are responding.

>> but put in chunks between context, replying inline, as Wikipedia
>> article says ("interleaved style").
>
> There is also "conversation style" or "interleaved style" which is the
> tried and proven preferred way for mailing lists; i.e the style you and
> many others use.

(...)

That's also bottom posting ;-)

Greetings,

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[Joey Hess]

Mika Suomalainen wrote:
> As far as I know, I have valid signature. That block which was pasted
> here is shown as invalid, because the one who first started
> complaining about it didn't use Enigmail and/or pasted only the
> signature block without message which it belongs to.

You may have a valid signature, but the way you have Icedove
configured to post your signature inline both means that it clutters up
viewing and replying, and prevents automatic signature validation (at
least in mutt) from working. While there's a well known procmail recipe
to convert clearsigned signatures to detached signatures, I personally
stopped using it, as clearsigned signatures are rare and deprecated.
I'd recommend switching to a detached signature.

--
see shy jo

[Joey Hess]

Wayne Topa wrote:
> Who would want to spoof YOUR Mail.
>
> I have been on this list for 19 years now and do not recall anyone being
> spoofed. From the tenor of your mails, I doubt anyone would gain
> anything from it.

This is fallacious, dangerous, and probably insulting thinking.

I'm sure that many people on this list are eg, sysadmins for large or
important installations. Or perhaps they are researchers,
decision-makers, free software developers, or any of a myriad of
other important things.

If you're at least some of the time sending mail that is important to be
reliably attributed to you, it *absolutely* makes sense to sign that
mail. If you're signing some mail, you might as well sign all of it, as
this will habituate people to expect your mail to be signed, and avoid
you needing to decide what's important enough to sign. It also acts as a
nice signal that you can handle encrypted mail, which needs to be used
more widely.

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[Lisi]

On Saturday 07 April 2012 20:44:43 Joey Hess wrote:
> If you're at least some of the time sending mail that is important to be
> reliably attributed to you, it *absolutely* makes sense to sign that
> mail. If you're signing some mail, you might as well sign all of it, as
> this will habituate people to expect your mail to be signed, and avoid
> you needing to decide what's important enough to sign. It also acts as a
> nice signal that you can handle encrypted mail, which needs to be used
> more widely.

Yes, but not everyone signs in-line. You don't, for example.

Lisi

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[PMA]

Does signing "in-line" specifically mean typing my name into a given email,
or does it include also whatever signature text I've told my email program
to append automatically?

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[Indulekha]

In linux.debian.user, Joey Hess <jo...@debian.org> wrote:
>
> Wayne Topa wrote:
>> Who would want to spoof YOUR Mail.

>>=20

>> I have been on this list for 19 years now and do not recall anyone being
>> spoofed. From the tenor of your mails, I doubt anyone would gain
>> anything from it.
>
> This is fallacious, dangerous, and probably insulting thinking.
>
> I'm sure that many people on this list are eg, sysadmins for large or
> important installations. Or perhaps they are researchers,
> decision-makers, free software developers, or any of a myriad of
> other important things.
>

> If you're at least some of the time sending mail that is important to be
> reliably attributed to you, it *absolutely* makes sense to sign that
> mail.

Yeah, but to a *mailing* *list* ??? I think not...

> If you're signing some mail, you might as well sign all of it, as
> this will habituate people to expect your mail to be signed, and avoid
> you needing to decide what's important enough to sign. It also acts as a
> nice signal that you can handle encrypted mail, which needs to be used
> more widely.
>

So, since I sometimes need big, thigh high rubber boots to keep my feet and
legs dry and clean, I should just wear my big rubber boots everywhere all
time then, right? That way whether I'm at the grocery store, the office, or
the barn there'll be no worries. :D

Seriously, when people sign every mail with a key (or request email return
receipts) they're either saying "look how cool *I* am", or "my desire to
$[express my geekiness | indulge my paranoia] trumps your wish to simply
read email".

Besides, if everyone signed all mail it'd be a very short matter of time
til the means to spoof any gpg/pgp key would appear.
If you and I work together on a secret project for a defense contractor,
or in banking or something it makes senseto sign business-related emails
to one another. For casual communication it's just madness.

Of course, that's merely my opinion. :)
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