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Debian is a translation.
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Николай
Feb 1, 2013, 3:50:01 PM2/1/13
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Hello! Your system is translated on the set of languages. Although each user wants to see the system in their own language, but the disk in addition to its native language has many language packs that 99% of users never will be used. Why not share all of the disk images on the languages? For example: if a user wants to have a system in the German language, he is invited to download a disk image with the package only in German. If the user has Russian - only in Russian. So he will be available as a system translated to his native language, and he will not be there to download not translated content systems or programs. I am sure that many of the programs (packages), going to 8 drives with a system not available in my native language! Then why do I download them? I spend time on your system, half of which I later need to be translated? Linux will not be popular, while "not speak" normally in all languages other than English.
Please communicated this message to the entire Linux community. Otherwise, the system will not take or when personal computers in Most of users. Quality and complete translation - the key popularity of any system, whatever it was. Otherwise, even the simplest things are not self-explanatory.
Gary Dale
Feb 1, 2013, 4:10:02 PM2/1/13
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better to just have the various languages available so people can
download a single installer and choose.
Internationalization has moved most of the language-specific items out
from the binary code that makes up the bulk of the downloaded installation.
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berenge...@neutralite.org
Feb 3, 2013, 2:50:01 AM2/3/13
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installation images.
Of course, the first question in installer is to ask user's language,
but every steps before that is in English. I can understand what the OP
means.
The reason I can see to not do one image per language is about space on
servers.
About the will of making linux coming on most computers... All of us
does not share it. In my opinion, well, it would be interesting. But if
it does not happen, it does not matter.
And when you say "Otherwise, even the simplest things are not
self-explanatory." can you objectively say that on the most widely
distributed OS, this goal is achieved?
If so, consider asking to enterprises how many teaching the system
usages to users costs. What I have seen is that many users just randomly
click here and there, and some have problems simply understanding that a
screen needs to be powered-on.
Then, take a look at windows 8. I would never have guessed how to close
a window if I did not see on a forum how to do it before. Just a sample.
Computers, and OSes, are not easy to use correctly. As all tools, in
fact. Ask about digging to someone who does that all the day, and you
may be surprised by all the "obvious" things (for him, at least) you do
not know.
The difference with computing, is that digging is (far) more than 20
centuries old, when "computing for everyone" is less than 20 years old.
OT:
But thinking about that, I remember that each time I do an update with
aptitude (or apt-get), translations for all languages are checked, and
when you do regular updates, you spend most of the time downloading
those translations. Then, to gain space, sometimes several hundreds of
MB (at first run), you will run localepurge.
All of this loss of time and bandwidth (for both server and client,
about bandwidth) could be avoided if it was possible to fully remove all
unused languages of Debian. I have no idea about the fact it is possible
or not...
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Dom
Feb 3, 2013, 3:40:01 AM2/3/13
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On 03/02/13 07:40, berenge...@neutralite.org wrote:
>
>
> OT:
> But thinking about that, I remember that each time I do an update with
> aptitude (or apt-get), translations for all languages are checked, and
> when you do regular updates, you spend most of the time downloading
> those translations. Then, to gain space, sometimes several hundreds of
> MB (at first run), you will run localepurge.
>
> All of this loss of time and bandwidth (for both server and client,
> about bandwidth) could be avoided if it was possible to fully remove all
> unused languages of Debian. I have no idea about the fact it is possible
> or not...
In my /etc/apt/apt.conf, I have:
>
>
> OT:
> But thinking about that, I remember that each time I do an update with
> aptitude (or apt-get), translations for all languages are checked, and
> when you do regular updates, you spend most of the time downloading
> those translations. Then, to gain space, sometimes several hundreds of
> MB (at first run), you will run localepurge.
>
> All of this loss of time and bandwidth (for both server and client,
> about bandwidth) could be avoided if it was possible to fully remove all
> unused languages of Debian. I have no idea about the fact it is possible
> or not...
Acquire::Languages "none";
This seems to prevent downloading all the translations. However, I am
English, speak English as my primary language and my installs are all in
English, so I'm not sure what this option would do if the system's
locale is anything else. I guess change "none" to the local language?
I also use a custom "locales" package which has a pre-built en_GB.UTF-8
only. It saves a *lot* of time when updating my slower systems.
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Nuno Magalhães
Feb 3, 2013, 4:10:02 AM2/3/13
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On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 7:40 AM, <berenge...@neutralite.org> wrote:
> you will run localepurge.
Yup, that plus whichever locales you want usually does the trick,
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> you will run localepurge.
Yup, that plus whichever locales you want usually does the trick,
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berenge...@neutralite.org
Feb 3, 2013, 4:20:01 AM2/3/13
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Le 03.02.2013 10:05, Nuno Magalhães a écrit :
> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 7:40 AM, <berenge...@neutralite.org>
> wrote:
>> you will run localepurge.
>
> Yup, that plus whichever locales you want usually does the trick,
afaik.
So, we: download list of russian, greek, french... translations,
install some package, install it in all languages, and thanks to
localepurge, remove all of them, except the one(s) in which we are
interested.
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Andrei POPESCU
Feb 3, 2013, 4:30:02 AM2/3/13
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On Du, 03 feb 13, 08:32:08, Dom wrote:
>
> In my /etc/apt/apt.conf, I have:
>
> Acquire::Languages "none";
>
> This seems to prevent downloading all the translations.
This applies only to package descriptions.
>
> In my /etc/apt/apt.conf, I have:
>
> Acquire::Languages "none";
>
> This seems to prevent downloading all the translations.
Kind regards,
Andrei
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berenge...@neutralite.org
Feb 3, 2013, 4:40:02 AM2/3/13
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on unstable, only fr and en are downloaded.
Sounds like my memory lied to me... (and I am *sure* that I *had* that
issue... humpf)
However, I tried your line in apt-get, and it sounds to remove all
translations.
Setting it as "french" downloaded from "Translation-fr" and
"Translation-french", using greek (a random peek) "Translation-greek"
and "Translation-fr" and commenting the line "Translation-fr_FR",
"Translation-fr" and "Translation-en".
So, I guess that this line simply download according to your locales if
absent, and if present, only downloads the language you set, plus the
extra locale you could have set (fr for me).
Just some guessing.
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Martin Steigerwald
Feb 3, 2013, 6:20:01 AM2/3/13
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Am Sonntag, 3. Februar 2013 schrieb berenge...@neutralite.org:
> Le 03.02.2013 10:05, Nuno Magalhães a écrit :
> > On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 7:40 AM, <berenge...@neutralite.org>
> >
> > wrote:
> >> you will run localepurge.
> >
> > Yup, that plus whichever locales you want usually does the trick,
>
> Only the trick to clean installed files, not to avoid downloading them,
> afaik.
> So, we: download list of russian, greek, french... translations,
> install some package, install it in all languages, and thanks to
> localepurge, remove all of them, except the one(s) in which we are
> interested.
Yes. I think its a question of effort on the packaging side. For KDE and
> Le 03.02.2013 10:05, Nuno Magalhães a écrit :
> > On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 7:40 AM, <berenge...@neutralite.org>
> >
> > wrote:
> >> you will run localepurge.
> >
> > Yup, that plus whichever locales you want usually does the trick,
>
> Only the trick to clean installed files, not to avoid downloading them,
> afaik.
> So, we: download list of russian, greek, french... translations,
> install some package, install it in all languages, and thanks to
> localepurge, remove all of them, except the one(s) in which we are
> interested.
LibreOffice and Iceweasel you have one package per each language.
But for smaller stuff like coreutils, or smaller single applications it would
mean creating one additional package for each language supported. This could
blow the Debian package out of proportions quite a bit and possibly mean
several ten thousands new packages.
Frankly, I can understand that Debian maintainers do not do the split for
each single little package. Especially as with xz compression which is
introduced to packages these times these translations will likely compress
pretty well.
One could put all the translations for all packages in one package per
language, but then you install translations of packages you didn´t have
installed. So same issue from different angle.
I do think that the current choice is quite good balancing. And would only
be convinced otherwise, if currently needlessly installed translations
exceed a certain treshold of size. Maybe for some further packages with big
translations a split makes sense, but then this I think needs to be decided
on a case by case basis and backed by evidence (thus measuring the
overhead).
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Carl Fink
Feb 3, 2013, 9:50:02 AM2/3/13
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So PulseAudio continues to be buggy to the point of infuriation. Developers,
after years of work, have signally failed to fix it.
Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
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Stupid mistakes you can correct!
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after years of work, have signally failed to fix it.
Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
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Carl Fink nitpi...@nitpicking.com
Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!
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Thierry Chatelet
Feb 3, 2013, 10:00:04 AM2/3/13
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The Sunday 03 February 2013 15:28:35, Carl Fink wrote :
> So PulseAudio continues to be buggy to the point of infuriation.
> Developers, after years of work, have signally failed to fix it.
>
> Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
You are hyjacking a thrad, so audio will be turn off, and you may not get an
> So PulseAudio continues to be buggy to the point of infuriation.
> Developers, after years of work, have signally failed to fix it.
>
> Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
answer!!
Please start a new thread for a new help demand
Thierry
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berenge...@neutralite.org
Feb 3, 2013, 11:20:02 AM2/3/13
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Le 03.02.2013 15:28, Carl Fink a écrit :
> So PulseAudio continues to be buggy to the point of infuriation.
> Developers,
> after years of work, have signally failed to fix it.
>
> Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
> --
> Carl Fink nitpi...@nitpicking.com
>
> Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
> Stupid mistakes you can correct!
perfectly here...
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Yaro Kasear
Feb 3, 2013, 11:30:01 AM2/3/13
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On 02/03/13 08:28, Carl Fink wrote:
> So PulseAudio continues to be buggy to the point of infuriation. Developers,
> after years of work, have signally failed to fix it.
>
> Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
Just get rid of PA (Unless you're using GNOME 3) and just use ALSA
> So PulseAudio continues to be buggy to the point of infuriation. Developers,
> after years of work, have signally failed to fix it.
>
> Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
barebones (Or through your DE's audio library or daemon.). Despite
Lennart's claims to the contrary, ALSA works great without sound daemons
telling it what to do.
My experience is that PA causes more problems than it actually solves.
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berenge...@neutralite.org
Feb 3, 2013, 11:30:02 AM2/3/13
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Le 03.02.2013 17:21, Yaro Kasear a écrit :
> On 02/03/13 08:28, Carl Fink wrote:
>> So PulseAudio continues to be buggy to the point of infuriation.
>> Developers,
>> after years of work, have signally failed to fix it.
>>
>> Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
> Just get rid of PA (Unless you're using GNOME 3) and just use ALSA
> barebones (Or through your DE's audio library or daemon.). Despite
> Lennart's claims to the contrary, ALSA works great without sound
> daemons
> telling it what to do.
>
> My experience is that PA causes more problems than it actually
> solves.
And I will say you why: because you can solve any problem by adding a
level of indirection. Including the problem of having no problem ;)
Yes, I know, I am already out of here :D
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dAgeCKo
Feb 3, 2013, 4:00:02 PM2/3/13
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>
> Le 03.02.2013 17:21, Yaro Kasear a écrit :
>> On 02/03/13 08:28, Carl Fink wrote:
>>> So PulseAudio continues to be buggy to the point of infuriation.
>>> Developers,
>>> after years of work, have signally failed to fix it.
>>>
>>> Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
can. Just because pulseaudio makes things very bad with jack, for example.
The big problem with this is that more and more programs tend to use
pulseaudio (Gnome, Kdevelop, other kde apps, VLC, ...)
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Chris Bannister
Feb 4, 2013, 12:10:01 AM2/4/13
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On Sun, Feb 03, 2013 at 05:11:15PM +0100, berenge...@neutralite.org wrote:
>
>
> Le 03.02.2013 15:28, Carl Fink a �crit�:
--
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who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
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>
>
> Le 03.02.2013 15:28, Carl Fink a �crit�:
> >So PulseAudio continues to be buggy to the point of infuriation.
> >Developers,
> >after years of work, have signally failed to fix it.
> >
> >Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
> >--
> >Carl Fink nitpi...@nitpicking.com
> >
> >Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
> >Stupid mistakes you can correct!
>
> I do not understand... for which use alsa does not work? It works
> perfectly here...
He is not saying ALSA doesn't work for him.
> >Developers,
> >after years of work, have signally failed to fix it.
> >
> >Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
> >--
> >Carl Fink nitpi...@nitpicking.com
> >
> >Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
> >Stupid mistakes you can correct!
>
> I do not understand... for which use alsa does not work? It works
> perfectly here...
--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
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berenge...@neutralite.org
Feb 4, 2013, 3:20:01 AM2/4/13
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>> >Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
>>
>>
>> I do not understand... for which use alsa does not work? It works
>> perfectly here...
>
> He is not saying ALSA doesn't work for him.
I understood that phrase like he was saying alsa could not work?
>> perfectly here...
>
> He is not saying ALSA doesn't work for him.
If that was not what he meant, I would be grateful for some
explanations.
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Chris Bannister
Feb 4, 2013, 8:10:03 AM2/4/13
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On Mon, Feb 04, 2013 at 09:09:42AM +0100, berenge...@neutralite.org wrote:
> >>>Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
> >>
> >>I do not understand... for which use alsa does not work? It works
> >>perfectly here...
> >
> >He is not saying ALSA doesn't work for him.
>
> I understood that phrase like he was saying alsa could not work?
It was a question, but more like "alsa could work?"
> >>>Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
> >>
> >>I do not understand... for which use alsa does not work? It works
> >>perfectly here...
> >
> >He is not saying ALSA doesn't work for him.
>
> I understood that phrase like he was saying alsa could not work?
> If that was not what he meant, I would be grateful for some
> explanations.
whether it would be usable instead.
But I think the OP will find that ALSA is actually installed.
--
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who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
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Lisi Reisz
Feb 4, 2013, 9:40:02 AM2/4/13
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On Monday 04 February 2013 08:09:42 berenge...@neutralite.org wrote:
> >> >Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
> >>
> >> I do not understand... for which use alsa does not work? It works
> >> perfectly here...
> >
> > He is not saying ALSA doesn't work for him.
>
> I understood that phrase like he was saying alsa could not work?
> If that was not what he meant, I would be grateful for some
> explanations.
I understood it to be a question. Does ALSA work?
> >> >Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
> >>
> >> I do not understand... for which use alsa does not work? It works
> >> perfectly here...
> >
> > He is not saying ALSA doesn't work for him.
>
> I understood that phrase like he was saying alsa could not work?
> If that was not what he meant, I would be grateful for some
> explanations.
Lisi
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Kelly Clowers
Feb 4, 2013, 11:10:02 AM2/4/13
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On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:28 AM, Carl Fink <ca...@finknetwork.com> wrote:
> So PulseAudio continues to be buggy to the point of infuriation. Developers,
> after years of work, have signally failed to fix it.
>
> Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
Esound is (mostly?) unmaintained for a long time AFAIK. Anyway, it was
> So PulseAudio continues to be buggy to the point of infuriation. Developers,
> after years of work, have signally failed to fix it.
>
> Is eSound still usable? Mabye ALSA? Anything?
far buggier than PA ever was.
Pure ALSA works fine if you only need one sound at a time and don't
need/want stuff like per source volume, and don't mind Flash sometimes
messing up and blocking all access to the sound card.
Cheers,
Kelly Clowers.
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"Morel Bérenger"
Feb 4, 2013, 11:30:02 AM2/4/13
to
> Pure ALSA works fine if you only need one sound at a time and don't
> need/want stuff like per source volume, and don't mind Flash sometimes
> messing up and blocking all access to the sound card.
I think you are speaking about OSS here, not about alsa.
> need/want stuff like per source volume, and don't mind Flash sometimes
> messing up and blocking all access to the sound card.
Alsa is able to play more than one soud/music at a time without problem: I
can perfectly play wesnoth with sound+music and have mpd running
background. (of course, I usually disable wesnoth's music, but not it's
sounds)
OSS is deprecated, alsa is the current successor.
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Kelly Clowers
Feb 4, 2013, 11:40:03 AM2/4/13
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On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 8:28 AM, "Morel Bérenger"
<berenge...@neutralite.org> wrote:
>> Pure ALSA works fine if you only need one sound at a time and don't
>> need/want stuff like per source volume, and don't mind Flash sometimes
>> messing up and blocking all access to the sound card.
>
> I think you are speaking about OSS here, not about alsa.
> Alsa is able to play more than one soud/music at a time without problem: I
> can perfectly play wesnoth with sound+music and have mpd running
> background. (of course, I usually disable wesnoth's music, but not it's
> sounds)
Nope, I am talking about ALSA. ALSA can only play more than one source
<berenge...@neutralite.org> wrote:
>> Pure ALSA works fine if you only need one sound at a time and don't
>> need/want stuff like per source volume, and don't mind Flash sometimes
>> messing up and blocking all access to the sound card.
>
> I think you are speaking about OSS here, not about alsa.
> Alsa is able to play more than one soud/music at a time without problem: I
> can perfectly play wesnoth with sound+music and have mpd running
> background. (of course, I usually disable wesnoth's music, but not it's
> sounds)
at a time with its dmix utility (ALSA itself is fundamentally unable
to do mixing) , but I have never, ever seen dmix work at all.
Cheers,
Kelly Clowers
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Darac Marjal
Feb 4, 2013, 11:50:02 AM2/4/13
to
On Mon, Feb 04, 2013 at 08:36:34AM -0800, Kelly Clowers wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 8:28 AM, "Morel Bérenger"
> <berenge...@neutralite.org> wrote:
> >> Pure ALSA works fine if you only need one sound at a time and don't
> >> need/want stuff like per source volume, and don't mind Flash sometimes
> >> messing up and blocking all access to the sound card.
> >
> > I think you are speaking about OSS here, not about alsa.
> > Alsa is able to play more than one soud/music at a time without problem: I
> > can perfectly play wesnoth with sound+music and have mpd running
> > background. (of course, I usually disable wesnoth's music, but not it's
> > sounds)
>
> Nope, I am talking about ALSA. ALSA can only play more than one source
> at a time with its dmix utility (ALSA itself is fundamentally unable
> to do mixing) , but I have never, ever seen dmix work at all.
Actually, that depends on the hardware. If your hardware can do hardware
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 8:28 AM, "Morel Bérenger"
> <berenge...@neutralite.org> wrote:
> >> Pure ALSA works fine if you only need one sound at a time and don't
> >> need/want stuff like per source volume, and don't mind Flash sometimes
> >> messing up and blocking all access to the sound card.
> >
> > I think you are speaking about OSS here, not about alsa.
> > Alsa is able to play more than one soud/music at a time without problem: I
> > can perfectly play wesnoth with sound+music and have mpd running
> > background. (of course, I usually disable wesnoth's music, but not it's
> > sounds)
>
> Nope, I am talking about ALSA. ALSA can only play more than one source
> at a time with its dmix utility (ALSA itself is fundamentally unable
> to do mixing) , but I have never, ever seen dmix work at all.
mixing (I know of at least one SoundBlaster that can, but I can't
remember which model at the moment), then you can play simultaneous
streams. But for most cards, you have to rely on software mixing (dmix,
pulse, jack etc).
Kelly Clowers
Feb 4, 2013, 12:30:02 PM2/4/13
to
don't, for example...higher end Creatives do, but I personally
wouldn't go Creative for that), and I don't know if any onboard chips
do.
Cheers,
Kelly Clowers
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Paul Johnson
Feb 4, 2013, 2:40:03 PM2/4/13
to
On Monday, February 4, 2013, Kelly Clowers wrote:
Esound is (mostly?) unmaintained for a long time AFAIK. Anyway, it was
far buggier than PA ever was.
Not that either are fun to deal with when all you want to do is be able to get Second Life's voice support to work.
Pure ALSA works fine if you only need one sound at a time and don't
need/want stuff like per source volume, and don't mind Flash sometimes
messing up and blocking all access to the sound card.
Even then, ALSA does quite fine if the hardware you're dealing with isn't single-channel.
Paul Johnson
Feb 4, 2013, 2:50:03 PM2/4/13
to
On Monday, February 4, 2013, Darac Marjal wrote:
Actually, that depends on the hardware. If your hardware can do hardware
mixing (I know of at least one SoundBlaster that can, but I can't
remember which model at the moment), then you can play simultaneous
streams. But for most cards, you have to rely on software mixing (dmix,
pulse, jack etc).
SB Pro 128 did it, I know that one for sure because knowing how much of a pain things like esound and PA are, it was the card I strongly recommended to everyone regardless of what platform they chose. Especially since it was only something like $5 more than the less capable hardware available at the time.
Martin Steigerwald
Feb 4, 2013, 4:00:02 PM2/4/13
to
Am Montag, 4. Februar 2013 schrieb Kelly Clowers:
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 8:28 AM, "Morel Bérenger"
>
> <berenge...@neutralite.org> wrote:
> >> Pure ALSA works fine if you only need one sound at a time and don't
> >> need/want stuff like per source volume, and don't mind Flash sometimes
> >> messing up and blocking all access to the sound card.
> >
> > I think you are speaking about OSS here, not about alsa.
> > Alsa is able to play more than one soud/music at a time without
> > problem: I can perfectly play wesnoth with sound+music and have mpd
> > running background. (of course, I usually disable wesnoth's music, but
> > not it's sounds)
>
> Nope, I am talking about ALSA. ALSA can only play more than one source
> at a time with its dmix utility (ALSA itself is fundamentally unable
> to do mixing) , but I have never, ever seen dmix work at all.
Here it just works out of the box.
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 8:28 AM, "Morel Bérenger"
>
> <berenge...@neutralite.org> wrote:
> >> Pure ALSA works fine if you only need one sound at a time and don't
> >> need/want stuff like per source volume, and don't mind Flash sometimes
> >> messing up and blocking all access to the sound card.
> >
> > I think you are speaking about OSS here, not about alsa.
> > Alsa is able to play more than one soud/music at a time without
> > problem: I can perfectly play wesnoth with sound+music and have mpd
> > running background. (of course, I usually disable wesnoth's music, but
> > not it's sounds)
>
> Nope, I am talking about ALSA. ALSA can only play more than one source
> at a time with its dmix utility (ALSA itself is fundamentally unable
> to do mixing) , but I have never, ever seen dmix work at all.
And since trying to use Pulseaudio created more than three different issues I
did not have *without* Pulseaudio I removed it again.
1) Sometimes doesn´t get that USB soundcard is available and I have to
replug it several times.
2) Unless in system mode I can not have two sessions open with one of it
playing music, cause Pulseaudio stops the playing music on session switch.
And no, this is not configurable. And no, Pulseaudio developers do not care
for this use case.
3) When in system mode on search update the start pulseaudio scripts are
replaced again. And consequently they start Pulseaudio even when its already
running system wide.
4) When playing back DVDs with VLC audio starts 5 to 10 seconds after video.
Even with rtkit installed. Purging Pulseaudio made music playback synchron
to video in an instant.
5) When playing back music with my old Amarok machine, a ThinkPad T23, I had
music being stuck for more than 5 seconds. And yes, rtkit also installed
there. This has almost completely gone by just using Phonon VLC with ALSA
directly. There may still be a occassional sound drop of a second or so, but
nowhere as worse as before.
I do not want to become a scientist to just get my audio to work.
All of this issues are fixable by just purging Pulseaudio from my system.
The complete lack of any feedback on my bug reports makes the think that it
does not make sense for my to try out Pulseaudio anytime soon.
I like systemd, it works for me. But for my user experience Pulseaudio is a
"apt-get purge" candidate. I don´t want to mess with it and I do not want to
invest hours to get something as simple as fluent audio playback. (Yes,
Pulseaudio got my piece of crap award at some time. Heck, I had some apt-get
install / apt-get purge cycles with Network Manager cause for some time it
didn´t work either. In the meanwhile Network Manager works just nice for me,
since version 0.9 of it. I still hope that either a future version of
Pulseaudio will work for me or KDE will continue to not require it.)
Is this a rant? Yes it is. But at least I stated what my concrete issues
were.
Ciao,
--
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Celejar
Feb 4, 2013, 8:50:01 PM2/4/13
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out of the box (I'm using raw ALSA).
> Cheers,
> Kelly Clowers
Celejar
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Kelly Clowers
Feb 5, 2013, 12:40:01 AM2/5/13
to
On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Celejar <cel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My ThinkPad T61's onboard 82801H Intel HD audio mixes audio perfectly
> out of the box (I'm using raw ALSA).
Really? For sure no dmix - it is supposed to be out of the box nowadays?
>
> My ThinkPad T61's onboard 82801H Intel HD audio mixes audio perfectly
> out of the box (I'm using raw ALSA).
I guess that is what I get for not having fully tested out my T61 yet.
Huh, hard to tell for sure but looks like the ALC883 does have
hardware mixing and multiple DACs.
Cheers,
Kelly Clowers
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Erwan David
Feb 5, 2013, 1:40:02 AM2/5/13
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On Tue, Feb 05, 2013 at 06:34:24AM CET, Kelly Clowers <kelly....@gmail.com> said:
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Celejar <cel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > My ThinkPad T61's onboard 82801H Intel HD audio mixes audio perfectly
> > out of the box (I'm using raw ALSA).
>
> Really? For sure no dmix - it is supposed to be out of the box nowadays?
> I guess that is what I get for not having fully tested out my T61 yet.
>
> Huh, hard to tell for sure but looks like the ALC883 does have
> hardware mixing and multiple DACs.
>
> Cheers,
> Kelly Clowers
Same thing on my T530 or on the HP desktop I have at work, both with
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Celejar <cel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > My ThinkPad T61's onboard 82801H Intel HD audio mixes audio perfectly
> > out of the box (I'm using raw ALSA).
>
> Really? For sure no dmix - it is supposed to be out of the box nowadays?
> I guess that is what I get for not having fully tested out my T61 yet.
>
> Huh, hard to tell for sure but looks like the ALC883 does have
> hardware mixing and multiple DACs.
>
> Cheers,
> Kelly Clowers
intergrated Intel audio chip.
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darkestkhan
Feb 5, 2013, 7:30:02 AM2/5/13
to
Mixing works out of the box here too - some integrated Intel audio chipset.
darkestkhan
Nate Bargmann
Feb 5, 2013, 11:00:02 AM2/5/13
to
Those of you who don't use PA, how do you do network streaming? That is
my usecase for PA as it's handy to start a stream on my desktop and send
it to the Myth box for playback through the amp. I can do that from the
laptop if I choose as well. The trick is to use the Sid/Wheezy version
of pavucontrol where individual application playback can be selected. I
find PA is useful for directing playback to my set of Logitech portable
USB speakers and my laptop.
At one time I found PA to be maddening. For the past year or so, it has
become quite useful to me.
- Nate
--
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possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
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my usecase for PA as it's handy to start a stream on my desktop and send
it to the Myth box for playback through the amp. I can do that from the
laptop if I choose as well. The trick is to use the Sid/Wheezy version
of pavucontrol where individual application playback can be selected. I
find PA is useful for directing playback to my set of Logitech portable
USB speakers and my laptop.
At one time I found PA to be maddening. For the past year or so, it has
become quite useful to me.
- Nate
--
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possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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Andrei POPESCU
Feb 5, 2013, 2:50:02 PM2/5/13
to
On Ma, 05 feb 13, 09:50:09, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> Those of you who don't use PA, how do you do network streaming? That is
> my usecase for PA as it's handy to start a stream on my desktop and send
> it to the Myth box for playback through the amp. I can do that from the
> laptop if I choose as well. The trick is to use the Sid/Wheezy version
> of pavucontrol where individual application playback can be selected. I
> find PA is useful for directing playback to my set of Logitech portable
> USB speakers and my laptop.
I'm using mpd ;)
> Those of you who don't use PA, how do you do network streaming? That is
> my usecase for PA as it's handy to start a stream on my desktop and send
> it to the Myth box for playback through the amp. I can do that from the
> laptop if I choose as well. The trick is to use the Sid/Wheezy version
> of pavucontrol where individual application playback can be selected. I
> find PA is useful for directing playback to my set of Logitech portable
> USB speakers and my laptop.
Kind regards,
Andrei
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Martin Steigerwald
Feb 5, 2013, 2:50:02 PM2/5/13
to
Am Dienstag, 5. Februar 2013 schrieb darkestkhan:
> Mixing works out of the box here too - some integrated Intel audio
> chipset.
AFAIK in recent versions of ALSA / distributions shipping it, by default
> Mixing works out of the box here too - some integrated Intel audio
> chipset.
dmix is automatically configured and used.
On my ThinkPad T530 mixing works out of the box as well, whether via
software or via hardware…
--
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Rob Owens
Feb 5, 2013, 7:20:02 PM2/5/13
to
On Tue, Feb 05, 2013 at 09:50:09AM -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> Those of you who don't use PA, how do you do network streaming? That is
> my usecase for PA as it's handy to start a stream on my desktop and send
> it to the Myth box for playback through the amp. I can do that from the
> laptop if I choose as well. The trick is to use the Sid/Wheezy version
> of pavucontrol where individual application playback can be selected. I
> find PA is useful for directing playback to my set of Logitech portable
> USB speakers and my laptop.
>
I'll jump in with one more good use for pulseaudio: It is needed for
> Those of you who don't use PA, how do you do network streaming? That is
> my usecase for PA as it's handy to start a stream on my desktop and send
> it to the Myth box for playback through the amp. I can do that from the
> laptop if I choose as well. The trick is to use the Sid/Wheezy version
> of pavucontrol where individual application playback can be selected. I
> find PA is useful for directing playback to my set of Logitech portable
> USB speakers and my laptop.
>
sound on LTSP thin clients. Not important to everyone, I know, but it's
important to me.
In general, pulseaudio hasn't caused me any real problems.
-Rob
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"Morel Bérenger"
Feb 6, 2013, 4:10:02 AM2/6/13
to
Le Mer 6 f�vrier 2013 1:12, Rob Owens a �crit :
configure it to have a network output.
I simply think about mpd as an _interactive_ software following UNIX
philosophy: it have an "stdin" and an "stdout", and only plays music from
playlists (but does it very well). (I know that UNIX philosophy says that
input and output should be raw text and that it is not for mpd)
You can use any tool you want to drive the input, and you can redirect
it's output where you want, network included ;)
And no needs for pulseaudio.
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> On Tue, Feb 05, 2013 at 09:50:09AM -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>
>> Those of you who don't use PA, how do you do network streaming? That
>> is my usecase for PA as it's handy to start a stream on my desktop and
>> send it to the Myth box for playback through the amp. I can do that
>> from the laptop if I choose as well. The trick is to use the Sid/Wheezy
>> version of pavucontrol where individual application playback can be
>> selected. I find PA is useful for directing playback to my set of
>> Logitech portable
>> USB speakers and my laptop.
>>
>>
> I'll jump in with one more good use for pulseaudio: It is needed for
> sound on LTSP thin clients. Not important to everyone, I know, but it's
> important to me.
>
> In general, pulseaudio hasn't caused me any real problems.
>
>
> -Rob
If you are speaking about simply music, then, I simply use mpd, and
>
>> Those of you who don't use PA, how do you do network streaming? That
>> is my usecase for PA as it's handy to start a stream on my desktop and
>> send it to the Myth box for playback through the amp. I can do that
>> from the laptop if I choose as well. The trick is to use the Sid/Wheezy
>> version of pavucontrol where individual application playback can be
>> selected. I find PA is useful for directing playback to my set of
>> Logitech portable
>> USB speakers and my laptop.
>>
>>
> I'll jump in with one more good use for pulseaudio: It is needed for
> sound on LTSP thin clients. Not important to everyone, I know, but it's
> important to me.
>
> In general, pulseaudio hasn't caused me any real problems.
>
>
> -Rob
configure it to have a network output.
I simply think about mpd as an _interactive_ software following UNIX
philosophy: it have an "stdin" and an "stdout", and only plays music from
playlists (but does it very well). (I know that UNIX philosophy says that
input and output should be raw text and that it is not for mpd)
You can use any tool you want to drive the input, and you can redirect
it's output where you want, network included ;)
And no needs for pulseaudio.
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Alex Mestiashvili
Feb 6, 2013, 8:50:02 AM2/6/13
to
On 02/05/2013 08:44 PM, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 5. Februar 2013 schrieb darkestkhan:
>> Mixing works out of the box here too - some integrated Intel audio
>> chipset.
>
> AFAIK in recent versions of ALSA / distributions shipping it, by default
> dmix is automatically configured and used.
>
> On my ThinkPad T530 mixing works out of the box as well, whether via
> software or via hardware…
>
Hi Martin,
> Am Dienstag, 5. Februar 2013 schrieb darkestkhan:
>> Mixing works out of the box here too - some integrated Intel audio
>> chipset.
>
> AFAIK in recent versions of ALSA / distributions shipping it, by default
> dmix is automatically configured and used.
>
> On my ThinkPad T530 mixing works out of the box as well, whether via
> software or via hardware…
>
you are totally right!
just have purged pulse* and both cmus and youtube started to play sound
without blocking each other :)
Thanks,
Alex
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Yaro Kasear
Feb 6, 2013, 10:50:02 AM2/6/13
to
On 02/05/2013 09:50 AM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> Those of you who don't use PA, how do you do network streaming? That is
> my usecase for PA as it's handy to start a stream on my desktop and send
> it to the Myth box for playback through the amp. I can do that from the
> laptop if I choose as well. The trick is to use the Sid/Wheezy version
> of pavucontrol where individual application playback can be selected. I
> find PA is useful for directing playback to my set of Logitech portable
> USB speakers and my laptop.
>
> At one time I found PA to be maddening. For the past year or so, it has
> become quite useful to me.
>
> - Nate
>
Short answer: I have zero use for that feature.
> Those of you who don't use PA, how do you do network streaming? That is
> my usecase for PA as it's handy to start a stream on my desktop and send
> it to the Myth box for playback through the amp. I can do that from the
> laptop if I choose as well. The trick is to use the Sid/Wheezy version
> of pavucontrol where individual application playback can be selected. I
> find PA is useful for directing playback to my set of Logitech portable
> USB speakers and my laptop.
>
> At one time I found PA to be maddening. For the past year or so, it has
> become quite useful to me.
>
> - Nate
>
Long answer: It's a pretty fringe feature to have in exchange for a
sound daemon that frequency breaks sound on a lot of Linux boxes I have
to fix every day. The only sound I stream is HTTPD music through MPD,
which would probably do it a far cry better than Pulseaudio ever would.
Conrad.
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Yaro Kasear
Feb 6, 2013, 10:50:02 AM2/6/13
to
On 02/05/2013 01:44 PM, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 5. Februar 2013 schrieb darkestkhan:
>> Mixing works out of the box here too - some integrated Intel audio
>> chipset.
> AFAIK in recent versions of ALSA / distributions shipping it, by default
> dmix is automatically configured and used.
>
> On my ThinkPad T530 mixing works out of the box as well, whether via
> software or via hardware…
>
ALSA has never given me any problems across the several different
> Am Dienstag, 5. Februar 2013 schrieb darkestkhan:
>> Mixing works out of the box here too - some integrated Intel audio
>> chipset.
> AFAIK in recent versions of ALSA / distributions shipping it, by default
> dmix is automatically configured and used.
>
> On my ThinkPad T530 mixing works out of the box as well, whether via
> software or via hardware…
>
hardware configurations I've had. Never had problems with sound mixing,
and I do agree with you, it does seem dmix seems to be included with the
ALSA packages required to use ALSA in the first place.
Conversely, every hardware configuration I've had Pulseaudio has never
worked properly.
Conrad
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