Dist-upgrade or upgrade. Which?
Patrick Bartek
This is my personal system, a desktop, and not a server. I intend to stay with Wheezy on this machine for the next 3 to 5 years.
B
[1] http://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting
[2] deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-backports main contrib non-free
deb http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian wheezy contrib
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Jochen Spieker
> I've been using Wheezy 64-bit for several months now, and as
> recommended[1] having been using "dist-upgrade" for upgrading it. My
> sources-list[2] is set to "Wheezy" and not "testing" as per those same
> instructions. When Wheezy is promoted to "Stable" should I switch to
> "apt-get upgrade" instead? Or does it really matter all that much?
will never change the set of installed packages. Ever. It will only
upgrade already installed packages. No removals, no new packages.
As the stable distribution mainly receives security updates, performing
an upgrade is enough most of the time. (Point releases might be
different.)
I am running sid and habitually only run 'apt-get upgrade' because it is
a quite safe thing to do. You can find many threads on debian-user from
people who involuntarily removed half of their Gnome desktop because
they didn't look closely what their dist-upgrade was about to do. This
cannot happen when you only use the upgrade method.
To put it short: irrespective of Debian flavour, my advice is to
habitually perform upgrades and only use dist-upgrade when you see it is
actually necessary in order to upgrade certain packages.
J.
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Gary Dale
upgrades installed packages while dist-upgrade can make more significant
changes. Once Wheezy becomes stable the two should do the same thing.
However, I prefer to stay in the habit of using dist-upgrade (or
full-upgrade for aptitude).
As for staying with Wheezy, why? I normally wait 3 - 6 months then
switch to the new testing. This gives the developers time to fix the
teething problems with all the new stuff that was held from Wheezy while
it was being stabilized. By the time Wheezy becomes "stable", the rest
of the Linux world has moved on.
Testing is what would be released with most other Linux distros. Unless
you need the rock-solid stability of stable, i'd recommend spending most
of your time with testing.
Chris Bannister
> I always use dist-upgrade but there's not a lot a choose. Upgrade
> upgrades installed packages while dist-upgrade can make more
> significant changes. Once Wheezy becomes stable the two should do
> the same thing. However, I prefer to stay in the habit of using
> dist-upgrade (or full-upgrade for aptitude).
remove half your sysytem before you can say OMG!
I recommend that new users follow Jochen's advice.
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Kevin Chadwick
> > upgrades installed packages while dist-upgrade can make more
> > significant changes. Once Wheezy becomes stable the two should do
> > the same thing. However, I prefer to stay in the habit of using
> > dist-upgrade (or full-upgrade for aptitude).
>
> The point is, you are *SAFER* using upgrade. Using dist-upgrade can
> remove half your sysytem before you can say OMG!
>
> I recommend that new users follow Jochen's advice.
as kernels with security related updates that needed dist-upgrade to
install.
So perhaps safer isn't quite the right word.
I usually use dist-upgrade and I wonder if using upgrade will allow me
to install updates without pulling in jockey and so polkit for
steam-launcher.
Of course it is no fix but will allow me to stay secure and ignore the
problem for now until I do need a dist-upgrade or use equiv.
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Chris Bannister
> > > I always use dist-upgrade but there's not a lot a choose. Upgrade
> > > upgrades installed packages while dist-upgrade can make more
> > > significant changes. Once Wheezy becomes stable the two should do
> > > the same thing. However, I prefer to stay in the habit of using
> > > dist-upgrade (or full-upgrade for aptitude).
> >
> > The point is, you are *SAFER* using upgrade. Using dist-upgrade can
> > remove half your sysytem before you can say OMG!
> >
> > I recommend that new users follow Jochen's advice.
>
> This might only apply to Ubuntu but I am sure I have had packages such
> as kernels with security related updates that needed dist-upgrade to
> install.
case it is obvious. But I think you are missing the point as to why it
is better to do an upgrade first *THEN IF NECESSARY* do dist-upgrade.
> So perhaps safer isn't quite the right word.
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Lisi Reisz
> Using dist-upgrade can
> remove half your sysytem before you can say OMG!
full-upgrade" command does nothing without asking first, so there is no
question of it removing "half your system before you can say OMG". I
therefore only use safe upgrade when I want to do at least a partial upgrade
but do not want something specific removed which full-upgrade is threatening
to remove.
Lisi
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Vincent Lefevre
> On Sunday 21 April 2013 17:03:18 Chris Bannister wrote:
> > Using dist-upgrade can
> > remove half your sysytem before you can say OMG!
>
> I use aptitude not apt-get, so cannot comment on apt-get, but the
> "aptitude full-upgrade" command does nothing without asking first,
> so there is no question of it removing "half your system before you
> can say OMG".
in addition to those listed on the command line.
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Patrick Bartek
----- Original Message -----
> From: Jochen Spieker <m...@well-adjusted.de>
> To: debia...@lists.debian.org
> Cc:
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 2:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Dist-upgrade or upgrade. Which?
>
> Patrick Bartek:
>>
>> I've been using Wheezy 64-bit for several months now, and as
>> recommended[1] having been using "dist-upgrade" for upgrading it.
> My
>> sources-list[2] is set to "Wheezy" and not "testing" as
> per those same
>> instructions. When Wheezy is promoted to "Stable" should I
> switch to
>> "apt-get upgrade" instead? Or does it really matter all that
> much?
>
> The main difference to keep in mind is that apt-get's upgrade operation
> will never change the set of installed packages. Ever. It will only
> upgrade already installed packages. No removals, no new packages.
Yes. I am aware of this. But it occurred to me: Once Wheezy becomes Stable, the only changes made to its code will be security and bug fixes. So, even a dist-upgrade should have the same effect as upgrade. At least, as far as the Main repository is concerned. Right? Contrib, nonfree or 3rd party repos might have a different effect.
> As the stable distribution mainly receives security updates, performing
> an upgrade is enough most of the time. (Point releases might be
> different.)
>
> [snip]
>
> To put it short: irrespective of Debian flavour, my advice is to
> habitually perform upgrades and only use dist-upgrade when you see it is
> actually necessary in order to upgrade certain packages.
This is something I'd been thinking about. What overall affect would mixing upgrade and dist-upgrade, if even only for select packages, have on a "Stable" system? Could that possibly "break" it? It was one of the reasons for my initial inquiry.
B
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Jochen Spieker
>> From: Jochen Spieker <m...@well-adjusted.de>
>> To: debia...@lists.debian.org
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 2:25 AM
>> Subject: Re: Dist-upgrade or upgrade. Which?
>> The main difference to keep in mind is that apt-get's upgrade
>> operation will never change the set of installed packages. Ever. It
>> will only upgrade already installed packages. No removals, no new
>> packages.
>
> Yes. I am aware of this. But it occurred to me: Once Wheezy becomes
> Stable, the only changes made to its code will be security and bug
> fixes. So, even a dist-upgrade should have the same effect as
> upgrade. At least, as far as the Main repository is concerned.
> Right? Contrib, nonfree or 3rd party repos might have a different
> effect.
>> To put it short: irrespective of Debian flavour, my advice is to
>> habitually perform upgrades and only use dist-upgrade when you see it
>> is actually necessary in order to upgrade certain packages.
>
> This is something I'd been thinking about. What overall affect
> would mixing upgrade and dist-upgrade, if even only for select
> packages, have on a "Stable" system? Could that possibly "break" it?
> It was one of the reasons for my initial inquiry.
dist-upgrade, irrespective of the flavour in use. There is no magic
involved here. Dist-upgrades are potentially harmful if you do not look
closely what apt is about to do before confirming its actions. That's
it.
J.
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Patrick Bartek
----- Original Message -----
> From: Gary Dale <gary...@rogers.com>
> To: debia...@lists.debian.org
> Cc: "debia...@lists.debian.org" <debia...@lists.debian.org>
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 5:03 AM
> Subject: Re: Dist-upgrade or upgrade. Which?
>
> [snip]
>
> As for staying with Wheezy, why? I normally wait 3 - 6 months then switch to the
> new testing. This gives the developers time to fix the teething problems with
> all the new stuff that was held from Wheezy while it was being stabilized. By
> the time Wheezy becomes "stable", the rest of the Linux world has
> moved on.
Why go with Wheezy and not Testing? Already did that. Sort of.
I used to use Fedora (beginning with Core 3 about 8 or 9 years ago), which is pretty much like Testing. I soon tired of Fedora's 6 month release-13 month End of Life cycles, BUT hardware and software were changing fast, and the rapid cycle was needed THEN. On every new version upgrade via clean install (Fedora's in situ upgrade procedure just didn't work--then), it took a couple months tweaking to get everything working well. I use computers in my work, but computers are not my work. I hated the waste of time.
Finally, after putting up with this for a couple of years and to reduce the tweaking time, starting with FC6, I began upgrading only every 3rd release--6 to 9 to 12. This scenerio worked okay, except it lacked a support life longer than 13 months. I needed something with a longer life!
I stayed with F12 almost 2 and a half years past its EOL. I didn't like F15, my next usual upgrade, or the following releases, or the direction Fedora was going. So, I opted against upgrading, but 12 was having problems. Time for a new OS. So, after some research, I decided on Debian mainly for its stability and 5+ year support life which is about the same interval I tend to build a new system. Squeeze, my initial choice, was about as old as F12, so it was out of the running: If I were going to keep the same OS for 5 years, I would need a much newer kernel among other things.
I installed Wheezy Testing a few months ago as a dual boot with F12 to see if it would suit my needs. It has. And it is now my primary OS. Just waiting for it to become Stable. I'll enjoy having a system that just works, and doesn't need periodic tweaking to keep it so.
> Testing is what would be released with most other Linux distros. Unless you need
> the rock-solid stability of stable, i'd recommend spending most of your time
> with testing.
Been there, done that with Fedora. Never again.
>
> On 21/04/13 12:29 AM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
>> I've been using Wheezy 64-bit for several months now, and as
> recommended[1] having been using "dist-upgrade" for upgrading it. My
> sources-list[2] is set to "Wheezy" and not "testing" as per
> those same instructions. When Wheezy is promoted to "Stable" should I
> switch to "apt-get upgrade" instead? Or does it really matter all
> that much?
>>
>> This is my personal system, a desktop, and not a server. I intend to stay
> with Wheezy on this machine for the next 3 to 5 years.
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ha
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 06:41:43PM +0100, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
>>>> I always use dist-upgrade but there's not a lot a choose. Upgrade
>>>> upgrades installed packages while dist-upgrade can make more
>>>> significant changes. Once Wheezy becomes stable the two should do
>>>> the same thing. However, I prefer to stay in the habit of using
>>>> dist-upgrade (or full-upgrade for aptitude).
>>>
>>> The point is, you are *SAFER* using upgrade. Using dist-upgrade can
>>> remove half your sysytem before you can say OMG!
>>>
>>> I recommend that new users follow Jochen's advice.
>>
>> This might only apply to Ubuntu but I am sure I have had packages such
>> as kernels with security related updates that needed dist-upgrade to
>> install.
>
> I don't use Ubuntu, so wouldn't know. This may happen, sure. In that
> case it is obvious. But I think you are missing the point as to why it
> is better to do an upgrade first *THEN IF NECESSARY* do dist-upgrade.
>
>> So perhaps safer isn't quite the right word.
>
> No. safer is the right word!
>
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Patrick Bartek
----- Original Message -----
>
>
> Patrick Bartek:
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Jochen Spieker <m...@well-adjusted.de>
>>> To: debia...@lists.debian.org
>>> Cc:
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 2:25 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Dist-upgrade or upgrade. Which?
>
> It would be nice if you could trim that to one line.
>
>>> [snip]
Yes, it would, but I use Yahoo mail for this list, and that is Yahoo's reply header. I cannot have my own custom reply header, nor can I opt not to have one at all. At least, not that I've been able to find in the Mail Settings. I can, however, edit or erase it from any reply as I did above, but sometimes I forget.
B
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Anthony Campbell
> >
> > It would be nice if you could trim that to one line.
> >
> >>> [snip]
>
> Yes, it would, but I use Yahoo mail for this list, and that is Yahoo's reply header. �I cannot have my own custom reply header, nor can I opt not to have one at all. �At least, not that I've been able to find in the Mail Settings. �I can, however, edit or erase it from any reply as I did above, but sometimes I forget.
>
make them annoying to read on a text-based email reader like mutt.
Regards,
Anthony
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Vincent Lefevre
> On 22 Apr 2013, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > >
> > > It would be nice if you could trim that to one line.
> > >
> > >>> [snip]
> >
> > Yes, it would, but I use Yahoo mail for this list, and that is Yahoo's reply header. I cannot have my own custom reply header, nor can I opt not to have one at all. At least, not that I've been able to find in the Mail Settings. I can, however, edit or erase it from any reply as I did above, but sometimes I forget.
> >
>
> Another problem is that your posts are peppered with lots of codes which
> make them annoying to read on a text-based email reader like mutt.
problem with Patrick's mail.
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Anthony Campbell
> > Another problem is that your posts are peppered with lots of codes which
> > make them annoying to read on a text-based email reader like mutt.
>
> Strange. I also use Mutt (with various patches) and I don't see any
> problem with Patrick's mail.
>
in my .muttrc that is causing this, since if I don't use the
configuration file the codes disappear. I shall have to look into
this.
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Patrick Bartek
> From: Anthony Campbell <a...@acampbell.org.uk>
>
> On 22 Apr 2013, Patrick Bartek wrote:
>> >
>> > It would be nice if you could trim that to one line.
>> >
>> >>> [snip]
>>
>> Yes, it would, but I use Yahoo mail for this list, and that is Yahoo's
> reply header. I cannot have my own custom reply header, nor can I opt not to
> have one at all. At least, not that I've been able to find in the Mail
> Settings. I can, however, edit or erase it from any reply as I did above, but
> sometimes I forget.
>>
>
> Another problem is that your posts are peppered with lots of codes which
> make them annoying to read on a text-based email reader like mutt.
Sorry 'bout that, but there's nothing much I can do about it from my end: It's Yahoo Mail that's the problem.
I have my mail set to "Plain Text" but since this is Web browser-based e-mail I'm sure it's not 100% pure ASCII. I don't even think switching to a "real" e-mail account would solve the problem. With almost everything these days graphic and web-based, smartphone and tablet, the days of pure ASCII e-mail are gone for the most part.
Also, if I reply to a message that is other than plain text, my reply "inherits" their formatting code. I can switch the reply to plain text, that is, Yahoo's version of plain text, but doing so screws up the formatting and quoting of the original message, and I'm left with the daunting task of manually reformatting it. With short messages, this is inconvenient, but not too much of a problem. However, with a long thread with multiple nested layers of quoting, it is almost impossible to manually correct the formatting. So, I just don't switch to plain text in those cases. Sorry.
Hope the problem is solvable from your end.
B
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Ralf Mardorf
> With almost everything these days graphic and web-based, smartphone
> and tablet, the days of pure ASCII e-mail are gone for the most part.
more people switch to plain text nowadays.
Smileys from Windows users easily become cryptic text on other OS, since
not everybody wishes to install Windows fonts. However, there are more
serious issues with HTML emails.
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Robert Holtzman
> On 22 Apr 2013, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > >
> > > It would be nice if you could trim that to one line.
> > >
> > >>> [snip]
> >
> > Yes, it would, but I use Yahoo mail for this list, and that is Yahoo's reply header. I cannot have my own custom reply header, nor can I opt not to have one at all. At least, not that I've been able to find in the Mail Settings. I can, however, edit or erase it from any reply as I did above, but sometimes I forget.
> >
>
> Another problem is that your posts are peppered with lots of codes which
> make them annoying to read on a text-based email reader like mutt.
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Carroll Grigsby
Patrick Bartek <bart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> Snip
> Hope the problem is solvable from your end.
>
>
-- cmg
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staticsafe
> On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 11:37:13 -0700 (PDT)
> Patrick Bartek <bart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Snip
>>
>> Hope the problem is solvable from your end.
>>
>>
>
> Easy solution: Kill file. Bye.
>
> -- cmg
>
>
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Chris Bannister
>
>
>
>
> > From: Anthony Campbell <a...@acampbell.org.uk>
> >
> > On 22 Apr 2013, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >> >
> >> > It would be nice if you could trim that to one line.
> >> >
> >> >>> [snip]
> >>
> >> Yes, it would, but I use Yahoo mail for this list, and that is Yahoo's
> > reply header. I cannot have my own custom reply header, nor can I opt not to
> > have one at all. At least, not that I've been able to find in the Mail
> > Settings. I can, however, edit or erase it from any reply as I did above, but
> > sometimes I forget.
> >>
> >
> > Another problem is that your posts are peppered with lots of codes which
> > make them annoying to read on a text-based email reader like mutt.
>
>
> Sorry 'bout that, but there's nothing much I can do about it from my end: It's Yahoo Mail that's the problem.
Are you *really* forced into using yahoo, it really is horrible (not
sure which is worse hotmail or yahoo.) for communicating on mailing
lists.
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who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
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Patrick Bartek
> From: Chris Bannister <cbann...@slingshot.co.nz>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:37:13AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
>>
>>
>> > From: Anthony Campbell <a...@acampbell.org.uk>
>> >
>> > [snip]
>> >>
>> >
>> > Another problem is that your posts are peppered with lots of codes
> which
>> > make them annoying to read on a text-based email reader like mutt.
>>
>>
>> Sorry 'bout that, but there's nothing much I can do about it from
> my end: It's Yahoo Mail that's the problem.
>
> If it hurts then stop doing it! :-)
>
> Are you *really* forced into using yahoo, it really is horrible (not
> sure which is worse hotmail or yahoo.) for communicating on mailing
> lists.
Forced? No. But circumstances do limit my choices of an e-mail provider to post to public forums. And Yahoo Mail is no worse than the others.
If you have any suggestions, I'll consider them. I have no dying loyalty to Yahoo.
B
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Ralf Mardorf
> Are you *really* forced into using yahoo, it really is horrible (not
> sure which is worse hotmail or yahoo.) for communicating on mailing
> lists.
You're free to use Yahoo with a MUA. Take a look at the email address
I'm using right now, it's Rocketmail, aka Yahoo, I'm only limited by the
pain Evolution and Xfce4, IOW the GNOME crap does cause.
I hope I find replacements for Evolution and Xfce4 ASAP, however, Yahoo
doesn't cause issues.
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Ralf Mardorf
> If you have any suggestions, I'll consider them. I have no dying loyalty to Yahoo.
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Anthony Campbell
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 07:57:11AM +0100, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> > On 22 Apr 2013, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It would be nice if you could trim that to one line.
> > > >
> > > >>> [snip]
> > >
> > > Yes, it would, but I use Yahoo mail for this list, and that is Yahoo's reply header. I cannot have my own custom reply header, nor can I opt not to have one at all. At least, not that I've been able to find in the Mail Settings. I can, however, edit or erase it from any reply as I did above, but sometimes I forget.
> > >
> >
> > Another problem is that your posts are peppered with lots of codes which
> > make them annoying to read on a text-based email reader like mutt.
>
> I'm using mutt also but I see no codes.
>
.muttrc which were supposed to eliminate the problem by translating
various codes! I'd put them in about a year ago - don't remember where
they came from. Anyway, after I deleted the lines the codes were no
longer seen.
> --
> Bob Holtzman
> If you think you're getting free lunch,
> check the price of the beer.
> Key ID: 8D549279
http://www.smashwords.com/profile.view/acampbell
https://itunes.apple.com/ca/artist/anthony-campbell/id73235412
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Anthony Campbell
[snip]
> > Another problem is that your posts are peppered with lots of codes which
> > make them annoying to read on a text-based email reader like mutt.
>
>
> Sorry 'bout that, but there's nothing much I can do about it from my end: It's Yahoo Mail that's the problem.
>
> I have my mail set to "Plain Text" but since this is Web browser-based e-mail I'm sure it's not 100% pure ASCII. I don't even think switching to a "real" e-mail account would solve the problem. With almost everything these days graphic and web-based, smartphone and tablet, the days of pure ASCII e-mail are gone for the most part.
>
> Also, if I reply to a message that is other than plain text, my reply "inherits" their formatting code. I can switch the reply to plain text, that is, Yahoo's version of plain text, but doing so screws up the formatting and quoting of the original message, and I'm left with the daunting task of manually reformatting it. With short messages, this is inconvenient, but not too much of a problem. However, with a long thread with multiple nested layers of quoting, it is almost impossible to manually correct the formatting. So, I just don't switch to plain text in those cases. Sorry.
>
>
> Hope the problem is solvable from your end.
.muttrc which were meant, ironically, to translate such codes! Deleting
them has stopped your codes appearing.
http://www.smashwords.com/profile.view/acampbell
https://itunes.apple.com/ca/artist/anthony-campbell/id73235412
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Darac Marjal
>
>
>
>
> >
> > On 22 Apr 2013, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >> >
> >> > It would be nice if you could trim that to one line.
> >> >
> >> >>> [snip]
> >>
> >> Yes, it would, but I use Yahoo mail for this list, and that is Yahoo's
> > reply header. I cannot have my own custom reply header, nor can I opt not to
> > have one at all. At least, not that I've been able to find in the Mail
> > Settings. I can, however, edit or erase it from any reply as I did above, but
> > sometimes I forget.
> >>
> >
> > Another problem is that your posts are peppered with lots of codes which
> > make them annoying to read on a text-based email reader like mutt.
>
>
> Sorry 'bout that, but there's nothing much I can do about it from my end: It's Yahoo Mail that's the problem.
>
> I have my mail set to "Plain Text" but since this is Web browser-based e-mail I'm sure it's not 100% pure ASCII. I don't even think switching to a "real" e-mail account would solve the problem. With almost everything these days graphic and web-based, smartphone and tablet, the days of pure ASCII e-mail are gone for the most part.
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is a way to encode 8-bit data (in your case ISO-8859-1) into a
7-bit (ASCII) form. Where you have characters that aren't "printable
ASCII" they're encoded as "=" followed by the hex code of the character
(so =0D=0A is a new line). It's then up to the MUA to decode those
characters and (if necessary) transcode the characters from ISO-8859-1
to the user's character set (in my case UTF-8).
Zenaan Harkness
> Info:
>
> You're free to use Yahoo with a MUA. Take a look at the email address
> I'm using right now, it's Rocketmail, aka Yahoo, I'm only limited by the
> pain Evolution and Xfce4, IOW the GNOME crap does cause.
I saw a kickstarter project to create a new alternative to Evolution
(or progress some alternative to it), and then, as now, I'm wondering
why they don't enhance Evolution, why start anew?
TIA
Zenaan
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Ralf Mardorf
> On 4/24/13, Ralf Mardorf <info.m...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> > Info:
> >
> > You're free to use Yahoo with a MUA. Take a look at the email address
> > I'm using right now, it's Rocketmail, aka Yahoo, I'm only limited by the
> > pain Evolution and Xfce4, IOW the GNOME crap does cause.
>
> What are the pain points/ problems, with evolution?
>
> I saw a kickstarter project to create a new alternative to Evolution
> (or progress some alternative to it), and then, as now, I'm wondering
> why they don't enhance Evolution, why start anew?
>
> TIA
> Zenaan
It can crash, if a server isn't accessible.
It does mark mails as read, if you switch between folders.
The GUI often is disgusting broken.
It has a very unique maildir, that can't be shared with other MUAs.
Depending to the update, it could happen, that it doesn't "transform"
correctly from ISO to UTF and vice versa.
Etc. pp.
OTOH, I didn't find another mailer that fit halfway to my needs and that
does work with the provider settings I need.
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Chris Bannister
>
> OTOH, I didn't find another mailer that fit halfway to my needs and that
> does work with the provider settings I need.
http://www.yorba.org/projects/geary/
I've never used it, myself, but it is an alternative to consider.
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Luca Cappelletti
On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 03:32:41PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
> OTOH, I didn't find another mailer that fit halfway to my needs and that
> does work with the provider settings I need.
There is geary.
http://www.yorba.org/projects/geary/
I've never used it, myself, but it is an alternative to consider.
Patrick Bartek
> From: Ralf Mardorf <info.m...@rocketmail.com>
>
> On Wed, 2013-04-24 at 10:28 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:
>> Are you *really* forced into using yahoo, it really is horrible (not
>> sure which is worse hotmail or yahoo.) for communicating on mailing
>> lists.
>
> Info:
>
> You're free to use Yahoo with a MUA. Take a look at the email address
> I'm using right now, it's Rocketmail, aka Yahoo, I'm only limited by
> the
> pain Evolution and Xfce4, IOW the GNOME crap does cause.
As far as I understand, with the free Yahoo Mail that I use, you're not able to use a traditional MUA. It's browser-based only. However, if you use the "pay" version, which is IMAP or POP-based, you can use any MUA you want.
B
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Patrick Bartek
> From: Ralf Mardorf <ralf.m...@alice-dsl.net>
>
> On Tue, 2013-04-23 at 21:43 -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
>
>> If you have any suggestions, I'll consider them. I have no dying
> loyalty to Yahoo.
>
> Stay with Yahoo, but use an MUA.
Can't use an MUA with the free version of Yahoo Mail. Browser only. At least, that's what Yahoo said when I set up the account 6 or 7 years ago. Maybe, they've changed it. I'll check.
B
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Patrick Bartek
> From: Anthony Campbell <a...@acampbell.org.uk>
>
> On 23 Apr 2013, Patrick Bartek wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> > Another problem is that your posts are peppered with lots of codes
>
>> [snip]
>>
>> Hope the problem is solvable from your end.
>
> Yes; it wasn't entirely your (or Yahoo's) fault. I had some lines in
> .muttrc which were meant, ironically, to translate such codes! Deleting
> them has stopped your codes appearing.
Glad to hear you've solved your problem.
B
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Brad Rogers
Patrick Bartek <bart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello Patrick,
>As far as I understand, with the free Yahoo Mail that I use, you're not
>able to use a traditional MUA. It's browser-based only. However, if
>you use the "pay" version, which is IMAP or POP-based, you can use any
>MUA you want.
problem.
--
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/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"
Now I found you out, I don't think you're so smart
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Patrick Bartek
> From: Brad Rogers <br...@fineby.me.uk>
>
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 10:33:45 -0700 (PDT)
> Patrick Bartek <bart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Patrick,
>
>> As far as I understand, with the free Yahoo Mail that I use, you're not
>> able to use a traditional MUA. It's browser-based only. However, if
>> you use the "pay" version, which is IMAP or POP-based, you can use
> any
>> MUA you want.
>
> I never paid yahoo a penny, and was able to use a real MUA without
> problem.
How? What MUA did you use? When I initially set up my Yahoo Mail accounts (I have several)--this was years ago--there was no option with the free accounts for POP3 or IMAP. It was specifically said that if you wanted it, you could, for a small yearly fee--I think it was $20 or $25 US--get it.
I've just been to one of my Yahoo accounts and I can't find any info on POP or SMTP server names, etc. Maybe, Yahoo is different in the UK. I'll continue to investigate.
B
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Dave Thayer
>
> How? What MUA did you use? When I initially set up my Yahoo Mail accounts (I have several)--this was years ago--there was no option with the free accounts for POP3 or IMAP. It was specifically said that if you wanted it, you could, for a small yearly fee--I think it was $20 or $25 US--get it.
>
> I've just been to one of my Yahoo accounts and I can't find any info on POP or SMTP server names, etc. Maybe, Yahoo is different in the UK. I'll continue to investigate.
>
access on the free accounts. I'm guessing that's for mobile device
support. Icedove knows the right thing to do, or look up the
instructions on the Yahoo! help pages.
dt
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Denver, Colorado USA | author is right there, in the room talking to
da...@thayer-boyle.com | you, which is why I don't like to read
| good books. - Jack Handey "Deep Thoughts"
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Patrick Bartek
> From: Dave Thayer <debian13114...@recursor.net>
>
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 07:44:29PM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
>>
>> How? What MUA did you use? When I initially set up my Yahoo Mail accounts
> (I have several)--this was years ago--there was no option with the free accounts
> for POP3 or IMAP. It was specifically said that if you wanted it, you could,
>> [snip]
>
> Oddly enough, while Yahoo! charges for POP access, they enable IMAP
> access on the free accounts. I'm guessing that's for mobile device
> support. Icedove knows the right thing to do, or look up the
> instructions on the Yahoo! help pages.
Okay. I found the Yahoo IMAP help page. The POP help still states you need a "for pay" Yahoo Mail Plus account, but no mention of that for IMAP. I'll run a test. I already have Sylpheed on this system, and it is both POP or IMAP compatible. SSL, too.
Thanks.
B
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Ralf Mardorf
On Thu, 2013-04-25 at 03:27 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:
> http://www.yorba.org/projects/geary/
On Wed, 2013-04-24 at 17:38 +0200, Luca Cappelletti wrote:
> http://trojita.flaska.net/
Thank you, I'll take a look, assumed they are available by the Debian,
Ubuntu and Arch repositories.
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Brian
> Okay. I found the Yahoo IMAP help page. The POP help still states
> you need a "for pay" Yahoo Mail Plus account, but no mention of that
> for IMAP. I'll run a test. I already have Sylpheed on this system,
> and it is both POP or IMAP compatible. SSL, too.
Collecting:
brian@desktop:~$ telnet pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk 110
Trying 188.125.69.223...
Connected to pop1.mail.vip.ir2.yahoo.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
+OK hello from popgate-0.8.0.357900 pop010.mail.ir2.yahoo.com
user debian-user
+OK password required.
pass FreeSoftware
+OK maildrop ready, 25 messages (206988 octets) (267884)
list
+OK 25 messages (206988 octets)
1 10887
2 6730
3 5826
etc
.
Sending:
brian@desktop:~$ telnet smtp.mail.yahoo.co.uk 25
Trying 46.228.39.190...
Connected to smtp.mail.eu.am0.yahoodns.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 smtp166.mail.ir2.yahoo.com ESMTP
helo example.com
250 smtp166.mail.ir2.yahoo.com
mail from: any...@example.com
530 authentication required - for help go to http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/pop/pop-11.html
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Ralf Mardorf
> When I set up my Rocketmail accounts, Evolution automatically wanted to
> use IMAP, but I forced to use POP.
>
> This are my Rocketmail settings:
>
> Server: pop.mail.yahoo.com
> Port: 995
> Security: SSL on a dedicated port
> Authentication: Password
>
> Server: smtp.mail.yahoo.com
> Port: 465
> Security: SSL on a dedicated port
> Authentication: Login
>
> While I can use my Alice account with all MUAs I tested, I didn't get my
> Rocketmail accounts working with all MUAs.
>
> If you'll google, you'll find loads of websites, such as
> http://email.about.com/od/accessingyahoomail/f/What_Are_the_Yahoo_Mail_POP_Settings.htm
>
> At least Rocketmail in Germany is for free as in beer and Rocketmail is
> Yahoo.
PS: IIRC I had to enable something for my accounts on the
Rocketmail/Yahoo website. If Yahoo shouldn't be for free as in beer, why
not switching to Rocketmail, the name anyway does sound hotter ;).
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Ralf Mardorf
use IMAP, but I forced to use POP.
This are my Rocketmail settings:
Server: pop.mail.yahoo.com
Port: 995
Security: SSL on a dedicated port
Authentication: Password
Server: smtp.mail.yahoo.com
Port: 465
Security: SSL on a dedicated port
Authentication: Login
While I can use my Alice account with all MUAs I tested, I didn't get my
Rocketmail accounts working with all MUAs.
If you'll google, you'll find loads of websites, such as
http://email.about.com/od/accessingyahoomail/f/What_Are_the_Yahoo_Mail_POP_Settings.htm
At least Rocketmail in Germany is for free as in beer and Rocketmail is
Yahoo.
Ralf
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Brad Rogers
>accounts (I have
Sylpheed.
Others have listed the settings required and also said that you may well
have to enable POP access via your yahoo account's settings pages.
Hopefully, you'll be well on the way to sorting things out by the time
you see this message.
Good luck.
--
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/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"
Public Image - Public Image Ltd
David Guntner
>
>> From: Dave Thayer <debian13114...@recursor.net>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 07:44:29PM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
>>>
>>> How? What MUA did you use? When I initially set up my Yahoo
>>> Mail accounts (I have several)--this was years ago--there was no
>>> option with the free accounts for POP3 or IMAP. It was
>>> specifically said that if you wanted it, you could, [snip]
>>
>> Oddly enough, while Yahoo! charges for POP access, they enable
>> IMAP access on the free accounts. I'm guessing that's for mobile
>> device support. Icedove knows the right thing to do, or look up
>> the instructions on the Yahoo! help pages.
of us using Thunderbird or other MUAs. :-)
> Okay. I found the Yahoo IMAP help page. The POP help still states
> you need a "for pay" Yahoo Mail Plus account, but no mention of that
> for IMAP. I'll run a test. I already have Sylpheed on this system,
> and it is both POP or IMAP compatible. SSL, too.
imap.mail.yahoo.com on port 993 for SSL/TLS incoming and
smtp.mail.yahoo.com on port 465 for SSL/TLS outgoing. Works like a champ.
--Dave
Peter Tynan
> > When I set up my Rocketmail accounts, Evolution automatically wanted to
> > use IMAP, but I forced to use POP.
> >
> > This are my Rocketmail settings:
> >
> > Server: pop.mail.yahoo.com
> > Port: 995
> > Security: SSL on a dedicated port
> > Authentication: Password
> >
> > Server: smtp.mail.yahoo.com
> > Port: 465
> > Security: SSL on a dedicated port
> > Authentication: Login
>
it finally prompted me to set up my old talk21 email address in my MUA
of choice - heirloom-mailx, (talk21 was a email service provided by
British Telecom and is now farmed out to Yahoo).
IMAP with SSL is working fine but much to my disappointment I could
only get SMTP working without SSL (note: I have SSL working fine on
other accounts so I think this is a talk21 thing (and a quick google
search seems to back me up on this)).
Peter
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Celejar
account and try to clean it up.
> --Dave
Celejar
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Andrei POPESCU
>
> I stayed with F12 almost 2 and a half years past its EOL. I didn't
> like F15, my next usual upgrade, or the following releases, or the
> direction Fedora was going. So, I opted against upgrading, but 12 was
> having problems. Time for a new OS. So, after some research, I
> decided on Debian mainly for its stability and 5+ year support life
A Debian release has security support for approximately 3 years: 2 years
as stable and one additional year as oldstable. You can extend that a
bit if you switch to testing when it's frozen, but that requires an
upgrade oldstable -> stable -> testing (skipping releases is not
supported).
Kind regards,
Andrei
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Patrick Bartek
<andreim...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Lu, 22 apr 13, 01:03:41, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> >
> > I stayed with F12 almost 2 and a half years past its EOL. I didn't
> > like F15, my next usual upgrade, or the following releases, or the
> > direction Fedora was going. So, I opted against upgrading, but 12
> > was having problems. Time for a new OS. So, after some research,
> > I decided on Debian mainly for its stability and 5+ year support
> > life
>
> A Debian release has security support for approximately 3 years: 2
> years as stable and one additional year as oldstable. You can extend
> that a bit if you switch to testing when it's frozen, but that
> requires an upgrade oldstable -> stable -> testing (skipping releases
> is not supported).
years will work, too. That will be about the time to decide whether
this system needs replacing, and along with it a newer OS.
B
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