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Dirk
Jun 17, 2013, 11:20:03 AM6/17/13
to
Hello,
my beloved Microsoft reputation management shills \:D/
How is freedesktop reinventing Windows badly today?
I know, right?
:D
Grub 2.00 (unstable) failed me the 2nd time now and resulted in a
unuseable system showing only the grub rescue console that does *nothing*
Grub 2.00 does everything now and nothing right... not even load a kernel..
That is shit.
Dirk
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my beloved Microsoft reputation management shills \:D/
How is freedesktop reinventing Windows badly today?
I know, right?
:D
Grub 2.00 (unstable) failed me the 2nd time now and resulted in a
unuseable system showing only the grub rescue console that does *nothing*
Grub 2.00 does everything now and nothing right... not even load a kernel..
That is shit.
Dirk
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Karl E. Jorgensen
Jun 17, 2013, 11:30:01 AM6/17/13
to
Hi
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 03:58:30PM +0100, Dirk wrote:
> Hello,
>
> my beloved Microsoft reputation management shills \:D/
>
> How is freedesktop reinventing Windows badly today?
>
> I know, right?
>
> :D
? Sounds like you do.
> Grub 2.00 (unstable) failed me the 2nd time now and resulted in a
> unuseable system showing only the grub rescue console that does *nothing*
>
> Grub 2.00 does everything now and nothing right... not even load a kernel..
>
> That is shit.
So... how can we help? Without any more details, we are left in
suspense and can only guess...
--
Karl E. Jorgensen
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On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 03:58:30PM +0100, Dirk wrote:
> Hello,
>
> my beloved Microsoft reputation management shills \:D/
>
> How is freedesktop reinventing Windows badly today?
>
> I know, right?
>
> :D
> Grub 2.00 (unstable) failed me the 2nd time now and resulted in a
> unuseable system showing only the grub rescue console that does *nothing*
>
> Grub 2.00 does everything now and nothing right... not even load a kernel..
>
> That is shit.
suspense and can only guess...
--
Karl E. Jorgensen
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Dirk
Jun 17, 2013, 12:20:02 PM6/17/13
to
>
>
> Hi
you have to reply using my email too since i am not subscribed..
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 03:58:30PM +0100, Dirk wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> my beloved Microsoft reputation management shills \:D/
>>
>> How is freedesktop reinventing Windows badly today?
>>
>> I know, right?
>>
>> :D
>
> ? Sounds like you do.
they would be stupid not to have reputation management shills in the
forums and mailing lists of their competitors.. and pessimists never get
dissapointed...
>> Grub 2.00 (unstable) failed me the 2nd time now and resulted in a
>> unuseable system showing only the grub rescue console that does *nothing*
>>
>> Grub 2.00 does everything now and nothing right... not even load a kernel..
>>
>> That is shit.
>
> So... how can we help? Without any more details, we are left in
> suspense and can only guess...
>
i updated from the old unstable to the new unstable during the last
stable release... everything went smooth except the grub 2.00 update...
after reboot it ended up showing the worthless grub rescue console...
so i downgraded grub to 1.99 from stable... yesterday i tried again with
the same results...
i haven't tried installing unstable from scratch yet... but i guess it
will work then so it would be pointless to do that...
it is bad when linux stops working before the kernel was even loaded...
so i advice to ditch grub in favor of lilo since it does nothing much
except what it is supposed to do... it doesn't even troll users with a
worthless rescue console that doesn't rescue shit...
Thanks,
Dirk
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>
> Hi
you have to reply using my email too since i am not subscribed..
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 03:58:30PM +0100, Dirk wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> my beloved Microsoft reputation management shills \:D/
>>
>> How is freedesktop reinventing Windows badly today?
>>
>> I know, right?
>>
>> :D
>
> ? Sounds like you do.
forums and mailing lists of their competitors.. and pessimists never get
dissapointed...
>> Grub 2.00 (unstable) failed me the 2nd time now and resulted in a
>> unuseable system showing only the grub rescue console that does *nothing*
>>
>> Grub 2.00 does everything now and nothing right... not even load a kernel..
>>
>> That is shit.
>
> So... how can we help? Without any more details, we are left in
> suspense and can only guess...
>
stable release... everything went smooth except the grub 2.00 update...
after reboot it ended up showing the worthless grub rescue console...
so i downgraded grub to 1.99 from stable... yesterday i tried again with
the same results...
i haven't tried installing unstable from scratch yet... but i guess it
will work then so it would be pointless to do that...
it is bad when linux stops working before the kernel was even loaded...
so i advice to ditch grub in favor of lilo since it does nothing much
except what it is supposed to do... it doesn't even troll users with a
worthless rescue console that doesn't rescue shit...
Thanks,
Dirk
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Joe
Jun 17, 2013, 2:30:02 PM6/17/13
to
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 18:01:49 +0200
Dirk <noi...@pwnoogle.com> wrote:
>
> i updated from the old unstable to the new unstable during the last
> stable release... everything went smooth except the grub 2.00
> update... after reboot it ended up showing the worthless grub rescue
> console...
>
Here's your first problem: there is no old or new unstable. There is
Dirk <noi...@pwnoogle.com> wrote:
>
> i updated from the old unstable to the new unstable during the last
> stable release... everything went smooth except the grub 2.00
> update... after reboot it ended up showing the worthless grub rescue
> console...
>
just unstable, enduring through the ages...
OK, it's a different unstable every day, but there is no concept of
'version'. It just gets continuously updated. If you have updated it
for the first time in many months, yes, there is a chance of failure,
as such a large amount of software has changed. If you make use of
unstable, you need to update it frequently. I do it nearly every day on
my main workstation, but that isn't really necessary.
There is no carefully researched and planned one-step upgrade as there
is between consecutive stable versions, as a new plan of this kind
would have to be created almost hourly. You just take pot luck and fix
it if it breaks. You're pioneering the next stable upgrade, and
somebody has to be the first to fall down the hidden potholes.
As to grub... yes, I know. Nearly all the (Linux) software trouble I
had over the course of about five years was due to grub. It has been OK
for a couple of years now, and when the grub changes occur in unstable,
they do seem to work.
The bottom line is that if you run unstable, you take what it throws at
you. There is no Windows equivalent: Microsoft wouldn't dare, they
don't release anything earlier than their equivalent of frozen
testing, and they expect their beta testers to do some work in
exchange for their free OS. These beta testers, of course, have no
access to the source code, and they make up only a very tiny fraction
of Windows users. A much higher percentage of Debian users run testing
and/or unstable.
If you don't like the heat, there is testing, or even stable if you
don't want to do any development work at all. Even testing is a little
hairy at the moment, I believe.
--
Joe
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Michael Tsang
Jun 18, 2013, 8:30:03 AM6/18/13
to
On Tuesday 18 June 2013 00:01:49 Dirk wrote:
> >> Grub 2.00 (unstable) failed me the 2nd time now and resulted in a
> >> unuseable system showing only the grub rescue console that does
> >> *nothing*
> >>
> >> Grub 2.00 does everything now and nothing right... not even load a
> >> kernel..
> >>
> >> That is shit.
> >
> > So... how can we help? Without any more details, we are left in
> > suspense and can only guess...
>
> i updated from the old unstable to the new unstable during the last
> stable release... everything went smooth except the grub 2.00 update...
> after reboot it ended up showing the worthless grub rescue console...
>
> so i downgraded grub to 1.99 from stable... yesterday i tried again with
> the same results...
>
> i haven't tried installing unstable from scratch yet... but i guess it
> will work then so it would be pointless to do that...
>
> it is bad when linux stops working before the kernel was even loaded...
>
> so i advice to ditch grub in favor of lilo since it does nothing much
> except what it is supposed to do... it doesn't even troll users with a
> worthless rescue console that doesn't rescue shit...
>
The *only* situation I would consider installing lilo instead of grub is when
> >> Grub 2.00 (unstable) failed me the 2nd time now and resulted in a
> >> unuseable system showing only the grub rescue console that does
> >> *nothing*
> >>
> >> Grub 2.00 does everything now and nothing right... not even load a
> >> kernel..
> >>
> >> That is shit.
> >
> > So... how can we help? Without any more details, we are left in
> > suspense and can only guess...
>
> i updated from the old unstable to the new unstable during the last
> stable release... everything went smooth except the grub 2.00 update...
> after reboot it ended up showing the worthless grub rescue console...
>
> so i downgraded grub to 1.99 from stable... yesterday i tried again with
> the same results...
>
> i haven't tried installing unstable from scratch yet... but i guess it
> will work then so it would be pointless to do that...
>
> it is bad when linux stops working before the kernel was even loaded...
>
> so i advice to ditch grub in favor of lilo since it does nothing much
> except what it is supposed to do... it doesn't even troll users with a
> worthless rescue console that doesn't rescue shit...
>
building an embedded system. lilo is too primitive and too hard to configure,
grub has so many features! I love it!
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Dirk
Jun 18, 2013, 10:20:02 AM6/18/13
to
>> i updated from the old unstable to the new unstable during the last
>> stable release... everything went smooth except the grub 2.00
>> update... after reboot it ended up showing the worthless grub rescue
>> console...
>>
>
>> stable release... everything went smooth except the grub 2.00
>> update... after reboot it ended up showing the worthless grub rescue
>> console...
>>
>
i /am/ updating unstable at least twice a week for many years now and
the problem occured contemporarily with the last release of stable...
now your nitpicking over the "old"/"new" aside... your email didn't help
at all... please spare me.. i already have the taste of vomit in my mouth..
also did i google for the problem and realized that i am not alone with
it... so i stop caring... it /will/ be fixed...
Dirk
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Dirk
Jun 18, 2013, 10:30:03 AM6/18/13
to
> On Tuesday 18 June 2013 00:01:49 Dirk wrote:
>> >> Grub 2.00 (unstable) failed me the 2nd time now and resulted in a
>> >> unuseable system showing only the grub rescue console that does
>> >> *nothing*
>> >>
>> >> Grub 2.00 does everything now and nothing right... not even load a
>> >> kernel..
>> >>
>> >> That is shit.
>> >
>> > So... how can we help? Without any more details, we are left in
>> > suspense and can only guess...
>>
>> >> Grub 2.00 (unstable) failed me the 2nd time now and resulted in a
>> >> unuseable system showing only the grub rescue console that does
>> >> *nothing*
>> >>
>> >> Grub 2.00 does everything now and nothing right... not even load a
>> >> kernel..
>> >>
>> >> That is shit.
>> >
>> > So... how can we help? Without any more details, we are left in
>> > suspense and can only guess...
>>
>> i updated from the old unstable to the new unstable during the last
>> stable release... everything went smooth except the grub 2.00 update...
>> after reboot it ended up showing the worthless grub rescue console...
>>
>> stable release... everything went smooth except the grub 2.00 update...
>> after reboot it ended up showing the worthless grub rescue console...
>>
>> so i downgraded grub to 1.99 from stable... yesterday i tried again with
>> the same results...
>>
>> i haven't tried installing unstable from scratch yet... but i guess it
>> will work then so it would be pointless to do that...
>>
>> it is bad when linux stops working before the kernel was even loaded...
>>
>> so i advice to ditch grub in favor of lilo since it does nothing much
>> except what it is supposed to do... it doesn't even troll users with a
>> worthless rescue console that doesn't rescue shit...
>>
>
> The *only* situation I would consider installing lilo instead of grub is when
> building an embedded system. lilo is too primitive and too hard to configure,
> grub has so many features! I love it!
you are clearly talking out of your ass... a boot loader doesn't need
>> the same results...
>>
>> i haven't tried installing unstable from scratch yet... but i guess it
>> will work then so it would be pointless to do that...
>>
>> it is bad when linux stops working before the kernel was even loaded...
>>
>> so i advice to ditch grub in favor of lilo since it does nothing much
>> except what it is supposed to do... it doesn't even troll users with a
>> worthless rescue console that doesn't rescue shit...
>>
>
> The *only* situation I would consider installing lilo instead of grub is when
> building an embedded system. lilo is too primitive and too hard to configure,
> grub has so many features! I love it!
features other than loading the kernel...
what crucial work do you do with the features of grub? spreadsheets?
presentations? project managing? or do you play it like a text adventure
figuring out what the grub rescue console actually does?
*primitive is the best thing about lilo*... if you don't realize that
then you don't care if a part as stupid as the boot loader doesn't
work... because you have alternatives to linux..
Dirk
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Lars Noodén
Jun 18, 2013, 10:40:02 AM6/18/13
to
On 06/18/2013 05:03 PM, Dirk wrote:
> you are clearly talking out of your ass... a boot loader doesn't need
> features other than loading the kernel...
>
> what crucial work do you do with the features of grub? spreadsheets?
> presentations? project managing? or do you play it like a text adventure
> figuring out what the grub rescue console actually does?
>
> *primitive is the best thing about lilo*... if you don't realize that
> then you don't care if a part as stupid as the boot loader doesn't
> work... because you have alternatives to linux..
Having just involuntarily bumped into the grub rescue console, I can say
> you are clearly talking out of your ass... a boot loader doesn't need
> features other than loading the kernel...
>
> what crucial work do you do with the features of grub? spreadsheets?
> presentations? project managing? or do you play it like a text adventure
> figuring out what the grub rescue console actually does?
>
> *primitive is the best thing about lilo*... if you don't realize that
> then you don't care if a part as stupid as the boot loader doesn't
> work... because you have alternatives to linux..
that LILO was much easier to work with and to figure out. In the case
of grub I eventually had to give up and nuke the MBR from the rescue
mode of the installation CD. grub is complex, grub2 more so.
Regards,
/Lars
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Gary Dale
Jun 18, 2013, 12:40:02 PM6/18/13
to
On 18/06/13 10:35 AM, Lars Nood�n wrote:
> On 06/18/2013 05:03 PM, Dirk wrote:
>> you are clearly talking out of your ass... a boot loader doesn't need
>> features other than loading the kernel...
>>
>> what crucial work do you do with the features of grub? spreadsheets?
>> presentations? project managing? or do you play it like a text adventure
>> figuring out what the grub rescue console actually does?
>>
>> *primitive is the best thing about lilo*... if you don't realize that
>> then you don't care if a part as stupid as the boot loader doesn't
>> work... because you have alternatives to linux..
>
> Having just involuntarily bumped into the grub rescue console, I can say
> that LILO was much easier to work with and to figure out. In the case
> of grub I eventually had to give up and nuke the MBR from the rescue
> mode of the installation CD. grub is complex, grub2 more so.
>
> Regards,
> /Lars
>
>
When GRUB came out, it's best feature was that you didn't need to update
> On 06/18/2013 05:03 PM, Dirk wrote:
>> you are clearly talking out of your ass... a boot loader doesn't need
>> features other than loading the kernel...
>>
>> what crucial work do you do with the features of grub? spreadsheets?
>> presentations? project managing? or do you play it like a text adventure
>> figuring out what the grub rescue console actually does?
>>
>> *primitive is the best thing about lilo*... if you don't realize that
>> then you don't care if a part as stupid as the boot loader doesn't
>> work... because you have alternatives to linux..
>
> Having just involuntarily bumped into the grub rescue console, I can say
> that LILO was much easier to work with and to figure out. In the case
> of grub I eventually had to give up and nuke the MBR from the rescue
> mode of the installation CD. grub is complex, grub2 more so.
>
> Regards,
> /Lars
>
>
it every time you installed a new kernel - something that LILO required.
With GRUB2, we're back to needing to update the boot loader when the
kernel changes.
The other features you need in a boot loader is that it works on
everything, and you need it to fail gracefully into a mode where you can
fix the problems that are preventing the system from booting.
Unfortunately, there is also now the UEFI problem to consider. Now boot
loaders have to contend with security checks enforced by the hardware.
Primitive no longer cuts it. What you need is a boot loader that can
handle all the crap that gets thrown at it. The boot loader that does it
best wins.
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Darac Marjal
Jun 19, 2013, 4:30:03 AM6/19/13
to
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 12:35:23PM -0400, Gary Dale wrote:
> On 18/06/13 10:35 AM, Lars Noodén wrote:
> >On 06/18/2013 05:03 PM, Dirk wrote:
> >>you are clearly talking out of your ass... a boot loader doesn't need
> >>features other than loading the kernel...
> >>
> >>what crucial work do you do with the features of grub? spreadsheets?
> >>presentations? project managing? or do you play it like a text adventure
> >>figuring out what the grub rescue console actually does?
> >>
> >>*primitive is the best thing about lilo*... if you don't realize that
> >>then you don't care if a part as stupid as the boot loader doesn't
> >>work... because you have alternatives to linux..
> >
> >Having just involuntarily bumped into the grub rescue console, I can say
> >that LILO was much easier to work with and to figure out. In the case
> >of grub I eventually had to give up and nuke the MBR from the rescue
> >mode of the installation CD. grub is complex, grub2 more so.
> >
> >Regards,
> >/Lars
> >
> >
>
> When GRUB came out, it's best feature was that you didn't need to
> update it every time you installed a new kernel - something that
> LILO required. With GRUB2, we're back to needing to update the boot
> loader when the kernel changes.
Actually, you don't NEED to update GRUB2 when the kernel changes. If you
> On 18/06/13 10:35 AM, Lars Noodén wrote:
> >On 06/18/2013 05:03 PM, Dirk wrote:
> >>you are clearly talking out of your ass... a boot loader doesn't need
> >>features other than loading the kernel...
> >>
> >>what crucial work do you do with the features of grub? spreadsheets?
> >>presentations? project managing? or do you play it like a text adventure
> >>figuring out what the grub rescue console actually does?
> >>
> >>*primitive is the best thing about lilo*... if you don't realize that
> >>then you don't care if a part as stupid as the boot loader doesn't
> >>work... because you have alternatives to linux..
> >
> >Having just involuntarily bumped into the grub rescue console, I can say
> >that LILO was much easier to work with and to figure out. In the case
> >of grub I eventually had to give up and nuke the MBR from the rescue
> >mode of the installation CD. grub is complex, grub2 more so.
> >
> >Regards,
> >/Lars
> >
> >
>
> When GRUB came out, it's best feature was that you didn't need to
> update it every time you installed a new kernel - something that
> LILO required. With GRUB2, we're back to needing to update the boot
> loader when the kernel changes.
use the /vmlinuz and /vmlinuz.old symlinks you can still have a pair of
menu entries that point to them. However, doing so loses some
user-friendliness (i.e. the ability to see what kernel you're booting.
It could be argued, though, that many users neither care nor know
whether they want to boot "Debian with Linux 3.8.0" or "Debian with
Linux 3.8.0". They want Debian 7.0, with possibly "Debian 7.0, fallback
kernel").
Conrad Nelson
Jun 20, 2013, 10:10:02 AM6/20/13
to
On 06/18/2013 11:35 AM, Gary Dale wrote:
> On 18/06/13 10:35 AM, Lars Nood�n wrote:
>> On 06/18/2013 05:03 PM, Dirk wrote:
>>> you are clearly talking out of your ass... a boot loader doesn't need
>>> features other than loading the kernel...
>>>
>>> what crucial work do you do with the features of grub? spreadsheets?
>>> presentations? project managing? or do you play it like a text
>>> adventure
>>> figuring out what the grub rescue console actually does?
>>>
>>> *primitive is the best thing about lilo*... if you don't realize that
>>> then you don't care if a part as stupid as the boot loader doesn't
>>> work... because you have alternatives to linux..
>>
>> Having just involuntarily bumped into the grub rescue console, I can say
>> that LILO was much easier to work with and to figure out. In the case
>> of grub I eventually had to give up and nuke the MBR from the rescue
>> mode of the installation CD. grub is complex, grub2 more so.
>>
>> Regards,
>> /Lars
>>
>>
>
> When GRUB came out, it's best feature was that you didn't need to
> update it every time you installed a new kernel - something that LILO
> required. With GRUB2, we're back to needing to update the boot loader
> when the kernel changes.
This is not true at all. No need to reinstall GRUB at any point and in
> On 18/06/13 10:35 AM, Lars Nood�n wrote:
>> On 06/18/2013 05:03 PM, Dirk wrote:
>>> you are clearly talking out of your ass... a boot loader doesn't need
>>> features other than loading the kernel...
>>>
>>> what crucial work do you do with the features of grub? spreadsheets?
>>> presentations? project managing? or do you play it like a text
>>> adventure
>>> figuring out what the grub rescue console actually does?
>>>
>>> *primitive is the best thing about lilo*... if you don't realize that
>>> then you don't care if a part as stupid as the boot loader doesn't
>>> work... because you have alternatives to linux..
>>
>> Having just involuntarily bumped into the grub rescue console, I can say
>> that LILO was much easier to work with and to figure out. In the case
>> of grub I eventually had to give up and nuke the MBR from the rescue
>> mode of the installation CD. grub is complex, grub2 more so.
>>
>> Regards,
>> /Lars
>>
>>
>
> When GRUB came out, it's best feature was that you didn't need to
> update it every time you installed a new kernel - something that LILO
> required. With GRUB2, we're back to needing to update the boot loader
> when the kernel changes.
many distributions who simply install a kernel under a single name (In
arch, for example, kernel image filenames aren't versioned. So upgrading
a kernel all you have to do is reboot to use the new kernel.), the
configuration needs no updating either. It's only on systems like DEBIAN
which does things in package management in overly verbose and
complicated ways that GRUB has to be reconfigured just to use a new
kernel. In this case it's less on GRUB and how the distribution installs
its kernel and initramfs images.
Yes, I know that Debian does this so you can fall back on an older
kernel if you need, but that's a separate issue. I'm just pointing out
the downside of that is GRUB will have to be informed every time the
kernel is upgraded.
>
> The other features you need in a boot loader is that it works on
> everything, and you need it to fail gracefully into a mode where you
> can fix the problems that are preventing the system from booting.
better to use a LiveCD or something, chroot onto your installed system,
and reinstall/reconfigure grub. Last I heard LILO didn't even have much
in the way of recovery tools.
>
> Unfortunately, there is also now the UEFI problem to consider. Now
> boot loaders have to contend with security checks enforced by the
> hardware.
turned off on all Windows8-based x86 systems that have it. If you don't
want to contend with it, then turn it off. Bootloaders don't have to
contend with security at all unless you don't know how to turn off
SecureBoot.
>
> Primitive no longer cuts it. What you need is a boot loader that can
> handle all the crap that gets thrown at it. The boot loader that does
> it best wins.
>
>
directly to boot itself.). On MBR systems GRUB still does it better than
LILO.
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Dirk
Jun 20, 2013, 11:30:02 AM6/20/13
to
> >
> > Primitive no longer cuts it. What you need is a boot loader that can handle all the crap that gets thrown at it. The boot loader that does it best wins.
> >
> >
>
>
> On UEFI systems, use rEFInd (Even better: Use rEFInd to load the kernel directly to boot itself.). On MBR systems GRUB still does it better than LILO.
>
>
how does grub boot a kernel better than lilo?
> > Primitive no longer cuts it. What you need is a boot loader that can handle all the crap that gets thrown at it. The boot loader that does it best wins.
> >
> >
>
>
> On UEFI systems, use rEFInd (Even better: Use rEFInd to load the kernel directly to boot itself.). On MBR systems GRUB still does it better than LILO.
>
>
this is all bullshit... the linux community is now full of people who
speak like some marketing shills...
freedesktop reinvents windows badly..
and now people are talking themselves into that they need features
/before/ the OS kernel has been loaded... so much fucking fail...
if i was younger and still more caring it would really hurt to see this
shit...
we live in the age of aggressive reputation management now... forums and
mailing lists have become cancers..
fuck you all
Dirk
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Ralf Mardorf
Jun 20, 2013, 12:20:02 PM6/20/13
to
On Thu, 2013-06-20 at 17:09 +0200, Dirk wrote:
> fuck you all
Hi Dirk,
why f*!#in' us all? FWIW some, especially advanced Linux users claim
that only Syslinux is a sane bootloader and btw. nobody needs to use
GRUB with the update thingy or even by the used distro. GRUB legacy,
Lilo and tons of others are still available.
Regarding to upstream a lot of people are disgruntled. For the distro I
prefer at the moment, not Debian, I'm missing the independence from
upstream provided by Debian. If Debian isn't independent enough from
upstream for your taste, contribute by fixing what you don't like from
upstream. You hardly want find an alternative to Linux, if you need to
drop it, assumed you're that annoyed. For many tasks FreeBSD is a very
good alternative, but not for all purposes. I can't use it for audio,
Linux already is hard to use for media productions. OTOH FreeBSD soon or
later will reach the state of Linux, with all it's pleasures, but also
with all the steps in a direction, that some of us don't like.
Regards,
Ralf
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Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1371744688.644.28.camel@archlinux
> fuck you all
Hi Dirk,
why f*!#in' us all? FWIW some, especially advanced Linux users claim
that only Syslinux is a sane bootloader and btw. nobody needs to use
GRUB with the update thingy or even by the used distro. GRUB legacy,
Lilo and tons of others are still available.
Regarding to upstream a lot of people are disgruntled. For the distro I
prefer at the moment, not Debian, I'm missing the independence from
upstream provided by Debian. If Debian isn't independent enough from
upstream for your taste, contribute by fixing what you don't like from
upstream. You hardly want find an alternative to Linux, if you need to
drop it, assumed you're that annoyed. For many tasks FreeBSD is a very
good alternative, but not for all purposes. I can't use it for audio,
Linux already is hard to use for media productions. OTOH FreeBSD soon or
later will reach the state of Linux, with all it's pleasures, but also
with all the steps in a direction, that some of us don't like.
Regards,
Ralf
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Joe
Jun 20, 2013, 7:10:02 PM6/20/13
to
On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 09:06:07 -0500
Conrad Nelson <ya...@marupa.net> wrote:
>
> GRUB 2 does this... but its recovery console is next to unusable.
> It's better to use a LiveCD or something, chroot onto your installed
> system, and reinstall/reconfigure grub. Last I heard LILO didn't even
> have much in the way of recovery tools.
>
In the heyday of LILO, a tomsrtbt floppy was all you needed. It used to
Conrad Nelson <ya...@marupa.net> wrote:
>
> GRUB 2 does this... but its recovery console is next to unusable.
> It's better to use a LiveCD or something, chroot onto your installed
> system, and reinstall/reconfigure grub. Last I heard LILO didn't even
> have much in the way of recovery tools.
>
take me ten minutes to fix a LILO problem, and eight minutes of that
was getting my Unix For Dummies book down and re-learning a few vi
commands.
--
Joe
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Stephen Powell
Jun 20, 2013, 7:20:02 PM6/20/13
to
On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 11:09:27 -0400 (EDT), Dirk wrote:
>
> how does grub boot a kernel better than lilo?
>
> this is all [expletive deleted]... the linux community is now full of people who
>
> how does grub boot a kernel better than lilo?
>
> speak like some marketing shills...
>
> freedesktop reinvents windows badly..
>
> and now people are talking themselves into that they need features
> /before/ the OS kernel has been loaded... so much [expletive deleted] fail...
>
> freedesktop reinvents windows badly..
>
> and now people are talking themselves into that they need features
>
> if i was younger and still more caring it would really hurt to see this
> [expletive deleted]...
> if i was younger and still more caring it would really hurt to see this
>
> we live in the age of aggressive reputation management now... forums and
> mailing lists have become cancers..
>
> [expletive deleted] you all
> we live in the age of aggressive reputation management now... forums and
> mailing lists have become cancers..
>
I understand your frustration. However, the use of foul language on
Debian mailing lists is prohibited. Please refrain from using it. See
http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
If you have had it with grub2 and wish to switch back to lilo, see
my lilo web page at
http://users.wowway.com/~zlinuxman/lilo.htm
--
.''`. Stephen Powell
: :' :
`. `'`
`-
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Dirk
Jun 21, 2013, 8:20:01 AM6/21/13
to
On 06/21/13 01:15, Stephen Powell wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 11:09:27 -0400 (EDT), Dirk wrote:
>>
>> how does grub boot a kernel better than lilo?
>>
>> this is all [expletive deleted]... the linux community is now full of people who
>> speak like some marketing shills...
>>
>> freedesktop reinvents windows badly..
>>
>> and now people are talking themselves into that they need features
>> /before/ the OS kernel has been loaded... so much [expletive deleted] fail...
>>
>> if i was younger and still more caring it would really hurt to see this
>> [expletive deleted]...
>>
>> we live in the age of aggressive reputation management now... forums and
>> mailing lists have become cancers..
>>
>> [expletive deleted] you all
>
> I understand your frustration. However, the use of foul language on
> Debian mailing lists is prohibited. Please refrain from using it. See
>
> http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
i have seen enough
> On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 11:09:27 -0400 (EDT), Dirk wrote:
>>
>> how does grub boot a kernel better than lilo?
>>
>> this is all [expletive deleted]... the linux community is now full of people who
>> speak like some marketing shills...
>>
>> freedesktop reinvents windows badly..
>>
>> and now people are talking themselves into that they need features
>> /before/ the OS kernel has been loaded... so much [expletive deleted] fail...
>>
>> if i was younger and still more caring it would really hurt to see this
>> [expletive deleted]...
>>
>> we live in the age of aggressive reputation management now... forums and
>> mailing lists have become cancers..
>>
>> [expletive deleted] you all
>
> I understand your frustration. However, the use of foul language on
> Debian mailing lists is prohibited. Please refrain from using it. See
>
> http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
>
> If you have had it with grub2 and wish to switch back to lilo, see
> my lilo web page at
>
> http://users.wowway.com/~zlinuxman/lilo.htm
>
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