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First attempt to use preseeding

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Richard Owlett

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Oct 21, 2012, 3:00:02 PM10/21/12
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Why - learn to use preseeding.
Why now - I think I've found an install related bug. Using
preseed.cfg would eliminate human error as cause.
For simplicity and repeatability I'm installing from DVD
with no network connection of any sort.
The DVD is disk 1 of 8 of a commercial copy of Debian 6.0.5
which has been used to do several successful instals.

I've read the appropriate sections of the "d-i Manual", an
assortment of web pages, and searched for related posts on
this list.

I found bits and pieces with too much detail on how to tweak
the example preseed.cfg and very little on how to launch
everything.

What obvious thing am I missing. Is there a "Preseeding for
Newbies" page somewhere?


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Jon Dowland

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Oct 21, 2012, 4:50:03 PM10/21/12
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In my experience, preseeding is pretty awkward. My advice: start
from scratch, try to guess the right thing to put in in order to
answer the first couple of questions, try it. Did those questions
get answered? Then add a few more for the next few questions.
Repeat.


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Richard Owlett

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Oct 21, 2012, 5:20:02 PM10/21/12
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Jon Dowland wrote:
> In my experience, preseeding is pretty awkward. My advice: start
> from scratch, try to guess the right thing to put in in order to
> answer the first couple of questions, try it. Did those questions
> get answered? Then add a few more for the next few questions.
> Repeat.
>
>

I guess I didn't explain my problem to well. I doing some
thing very basic wrong.
There seemed to be a good description of use preseeding in
Brian's post on 9/3/2012 in thread titled "Preseeding from USB".
It appears to me that my preseed.cfg file is not being read
at all. My only changes to the example preseed file were to
physically move some line that were already commented out
and using an alternative value in some lines (I.E. commented
out one line and un-commented its alternate).




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Jon Dowland

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Oct 24, 2012, 10:00:03 AM10/24/12
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On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 04:13:17PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> It appears to me that my preseed.cfg file is not being read at all.

OK. I don't know the nature of the problem you are trying to fix, but could
it be reproduced/triaged in a virtual machine? It might be much quicker/easier
to explore kicking off the installer in a VM, which you can interrupt/throw
away and start again very quickly.


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Richard Owlett

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Oct 25, 2012, 8:30:02 AM10/25/12
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Jon Dowland wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 04:13:17PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> It appears to me that my preseed.cfg file is not being read at all.
>
> OK. I don't know the nature of the problem you are trying to fix,

The nature of the problem is that I have found *NO NONE
NADA* complete explicit instructions of what to do when
handed THREE objects:
1. dedicated laptop capable of running Debian
2. Debian 6.0.5 DVD 1 of 8
3. a USB stick which may be partitioned and formatted as
required on which can be placed a pressed.cfg.
NOTE BENE: The word "network" does not appear in that
description.

What I have found is incomplete and conflicting descriptions
of portions of the procedure(s) required drawn from various
Debian releases.

> but could
> it be reproduced/triaged in a virtual machine? It might be much quicker/easier
> to explore kicking off the installer in a VM, which you can interrupt/throw
> away and start again very quickly.
>

Based on over 50 years of trouble shooting experience I
cannot see the benefit of adding a VM to the mix when the
problem is lack of documentation. When I wrote "Is there a
"Preseeding for Newbies" page somewhere? ", I was indicating
that I was new to Linux not that I did not have background
to draw on.






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Jon Dowland

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Oct 25, 2012, 9:00:01 AM10/25/12
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On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 07:23:27AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> Jon Dowland wrote:
> >On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 04:13:17PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >>It appears to me that my preseed.cfg file is not being read at all.
> >
> >OK. I don't know the nature of the problem you are trying to fix,
>
> The nature of the problem is that I have found *NO NONE NADA*
> complete explicit instructions of what to do when handed THREE
> objects:
> 1. dedicated laptop capable of running Debian
> 2. Debian 6.0.5 DVD 1 of 8
> 3. a USB stick which may be partitioned and formatted as required
> on which can be placed a pressed.cfg.
> NOTE BENE: The word "network" does not appear in that description.

OK. I am not familiar with trying it this way. I've only done it by
fetching the preseed file over the web via url=<preseed file> passed
on the kernel command line to the installer.

> What I have found is incomplete and conflicting descriptions of
> portions of the procedure(s) required drawn from various Debian
> releases.

Yes. Me too.

> >but could
> >it be reproduced/triaged in a virtual machine? It might be much quicker/easier
> >to explore kicking off the installer in a VM, which you can interrupt/throw
> >away and start again very quickly.
>
> Based on over 50 years of trouble shooting experience

Let's discount that from before personal computers or virtual machine
technology existed, shall we?

> I cannot see the benefit of adding a VM to the mix when the problem is lack
> of documentation.r

Agreed. I thought, from your first message, you were trying to debug a
bug in the installer, in which case a VM can be very useful. I've just
been doing pretty much exactly this earlier in the week, which is why
I replied to your message.

> When I wrote "Is there a "Preseeding for Newbies" page somewhere? ", I was
> indicating that I was new to Linux not that I did not have background to draw
> on.

I concur that the documentation, as it stands, sucks.


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Richard Owlett

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Oct 25, 2012, 10:20:04 AM10/25/12
to
Successful troubleshooting philosophy for Babbage's
Analytical Engine will have much in common with those for
the computer of tomorrow with a 1024 bit buss width and
terabyte main memory.


>
>> I cannot see the benefit of adding a VM to the mix when the problem is lack
>> of documentation.r
>
> Agreed. I thought, from your first message, you were trying to debug a
> bug in the installer,

Not quite. I was not trying to _debug_ the installer. I was
trying to _document_ that a bug exists. The bug only appears
If a perverse permutation of options are chosen during the
install. Publishing a preseed.cfg that exhibited the problem
seemed a good means.


in which case a VM can be very useful. I've just
> been doing pretty much exactly this earlier in the week, which is why
> I replied to your message.
>
>> When I wrote "Is there a "Preseeding for Newbies" page somewhere? ", I was
>> indicating that I was new to Linux not that I did not have background to draw
>> on.
>
> I concur that the documentation, as it stands, sucks.
>

I don't think it "sucks". It has a more subtle problem. It
is implicitly written for an audience of which the author is
a member. The result may not be useful to a member of a
different audience.



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Tom H

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Oct 25, 2012, 1:10:02 PM10/25/12
to
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Richard Owlett <row...@cloud85.net> wrote:
> Jon Dowland wrote:
>> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 04:13:17PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:


>>> It appears to me that my preseed.cfg file is not being read at all.
>>
>> OK. I don't know the nature of the problem you are trying to fix,
>
> The nature of the problem is that I have found *NO NONE NADA* complete
> explicit instructions of what to do when handed THREE objects:
> 1. dedicated laptop capable of running Debian
> 2. Debian 6.0.5 DVD 1 of 8
> 3. a USB stick which may be partitioned and formatted as required on which
> can be placed a pressed.cfg.

You can add "DEBCONF_DEBUG=5" to the kernel's boot options to see
(hopefully!) on vt4 why your preseed file isn't being read/loaded.


> What I have found is incomplete and conflicting descriptions of portions of
> the procedure(s) required drawn from various Debian releases.

http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.amd64/apbs02.html

Whilst I agree that the actual preseed "verbs"/"options" aren't fully
documented, I don't see what's incomplete or conflicting on the above
page.


>> but could
>> it be reproduced/triaged in a virtual machine? It might be much
>> quicker/easier
>> to explore kicking off the installer in a VM, which you can
>> interrupt/throw
>> away and start again very quickly.
>
> Based on over 50 years of trouble shooting experience I cannot see the
> benefit of adding a VM to the mix when the problem is lack of documentation.

50 years?!


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Richard Owlett

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Oct 25, 2012, 3:20:02 PM10/25/12
to
Tom H wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Richard Owlett <row...@cloud85.net> wrote:
>> Jon Dowland wrote:
>>> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 04:13:17PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>
>>>> It appears to me that my preseed.cfg file is not being read at all.
>>>
>>> OK. I don't know the nature of the problem you are trying to fix,
>>
>> The nature of the problem is that I have found *NO NONE NADA* complete
>> explicit instructions of what to do when handed THREE objects:
>> 1. dedicated laptop capable of running Debian
>> 2. Debian 6.0.5 DVD 1 of 8
>> 3. a USB stick which may be partitioned and formatted as required on which
>> can be placed a pressed.cfg.
>
> You can add "DEBCONF_DEBUG=5" to the kernel's boot options to see
> (hopefully!) on vt4 why your preseed file isn't being read/loaded.

That's the kind of information I wasn't finding.


>
>
>> What I have found is incomplete and conflicting descriptions of portions of
>> the procedure(s) required drawn from various Debian releases.
>
> http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.amd64/apbs02.html


I've read that section for older releases, but I wouldn't
have looked at that one in detail as I'm still in 32 bit
mode. But in a quick read I saw a couple of things I had
figured out and found an explicit statement that without
setting a specific parameter it would not operate in what I
assumed would be its default mode {I need auto=true ;}.


>
> Whilst I agree that the actual preseed "verbs"/"options" aren't fully
> documented, I don't see what's incomplete or conflicting on the above
> page.

At the moment all I want is to read a preseed.cfg file. ANY
preseed.cfg file ;!
>
>
>>> but could
>>> it be reproduced/triaged in a virtual machine? It might be much
>>> quicker/easier
>>> to explore kicking off the installer in a VM, which you can
>>> interrupt/throw
>>> away and start again very quickly.
>>
>> Based on over 50 years of trouble shooting experience I cannot see the
>> benefit of adding a VM to the mix when the problem is lack of documentation.
>
> 50 years?!

Snicker. I took my first programming course 8 years before
Mr. Torvalds was born. 5U4, 12AX7, 026, CORC and CUPL were
part of our vocabulary. I'm so old, I predate BASIC.




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Tom H

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Oct 25, 2012, 4:50:01 PM10/25/12
to
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Richard Owlett <row...@cloud85.net> wrote:
> Tom H wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Richard Owlett <row...@cloud85.net>
>> wrote:
>>> Jon Dowland wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 04:13:17PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:


>>>>> It appears to me that my preseed.cfg file is not being read at all.
>>>>
>>>> OK. I don't know the nature of the problem you are trying to fix,
>>>
>>> The nature of the problem is that I have found *NO NONE NADA* complete
>>> explicit instructions of what to do when handed THREE objects:
>>> 1. dedicated laptop capable of running Debian
>>> 2. Debian 6.0.5 DVD 1 of 8
>>> 3. a USB stick which may be partitioned and formatted as required on
>>> which can be placed a pressed.cfg.
>>
>> You can add "DEBCONF_DEBUG=5" to the kernel's boot options to see
>> (hopefully!) on vt4 why your preseed file isn't being read/loaded.
>
> That's the kind of information I wasn't finding.

It's on [1]. It's also not a preseed-specific variable.


>>> What I have found is incomplete and conflicting descriptions of portions
>>> of the procedure(s) required drawn from various Debian releases.
>>
>> http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.amd64/apbs02.html
>
> I've read that section for older releases, but I wouldn't have looked at
> that one in detail as I'm still in 32 bit mode. But in a quick read I saw a
> couple of things I had figured out and found an explicit statement that
> without setting a specific parameter it would not operate in what I assumed
> would be its default mode {I need auto=true ;}.

[2] has exactly the same para:

But in both cases, "auto=true" is definitely needed. :)

1. http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Preseed

2. http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.i386/apbs02.html


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Richard Owlett

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Nov 4, 2012, 8:00:03 AM11/4/12
to
Richard Owlett wrote:
> Why - learn to use preseeding.
> Why now - I think I've found an install related bug. Using
> preseed.cfg would eliminate human error as cause.
> For simplicity and repeatability I'm installing from DVD
> with no network connection of any sort.
> The DVD is disk 1 of 8 of a commercial copy of Debian 6.0.5
> which has been used to do several successful instals.
>
> I've read the appropriate sections of the "d-i Manual", an
> assortment of web pages, and searched for related posts on
> this list.
>
> I found bits and pieces with too much detail on how to tweak
> the example preseed.cfg and very little on how to launch
> everything.
>
> What obvious thing am I missing. Is there a "Preseeding for
> Newbies" page somewhere?
>
>

I have now succeeded to the point of a red screen with a
message box stating "The file needed for preconfiguration
could not be retrieved from file:///devd/sdb1/preseed.cfg."

This is a *MAJOR* improvement. Previously the installer
would go on its merry fully manual way. I'm not sure what
changed - perhaps the act of slowing down to manually record
each step slowed me down enough to prevent typographical
error(s)?

*My procedure*
1. Partition/format a 16 GB USB stick as single primary
partition formatted as ext2 using Gparted.
2. Copy a sample preseed.cfg to it (some answers had been
changed to match my needs).
3. Boot from DVD 1 of 8 of Debian 6.0.5
4. From the menu choose "Automated install"
5. Press <Tab> to edit
6. Backspace to remove "Quiet" leaving "--" as last thing on
the line.
7. Append "preseed/file=/sdb1/preseed.cfg" to the line
8. Press <Enter>.

If it's not in that list, IT WAS NOT DONE.
What's wrong?
Help please.






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Brian

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Nov 4, 2012, 10:10:02 AM11/4/12
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On Sun 04 Nov 2012 at 06:55:41 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:

> *My procedure*
> 1. Partition/format a 16 GB USB stick as single primary partition
> formatted as ext2 using Gparted.

At this stage of the installer's operation it is very happy to deal with
FAT16. I'd suggest you fall in with its wishes rather than having to
persuade it to use ext2.

> 2. Copy a sample preseed.cfg to it (some answers had been changed to
> match my needs).
> 3. Boot from DVD 1 of 8 of Debian 6.0.5
> 4. From the menu choose "Automated install"
> 5. Press <Tab> to edit
> 6. Backspace to remove "Quiet" leaving "--" as last thing on the
> line.
> 7. Append "preseed/file=/sdb1/preseed.cfg" to the line

This tells the installer the preseed file is at /<directory>/preseed.cfg.
If the directory does not exist the installer will not find the file. If
the file system on the USB stick is not mounted on <directory> the
installer will still not find the file.

I'd not choose sdb1 as the directory name, but if you choose to keep it:

mkdir sdb1

mount -t vfat /dev/sdX1 /sdb1

Both done after getting a terminal with ALT-F2.


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Richard Owlett

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Nov 5, 2012, 9:00:02 AM11/5/12
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Brian wrote:
> On Sun 04 Nov 2012 at 06:55:41 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> *My procedure*
>> 1. Partition/format a 16 GB USB stick as single primary partition
>> formatted as ext2 using Gparted.
>
> At this stage of the installer's operation it is very happy to deal with
> FAT16. I'd suggest you fall in with its wishes rather than having to
> persuade it to use ext2.

And this is documented where?
Just to be safe ;> I grabbed another USB stick and
formatted it to FAT16 with Gparted.

>
>> 2. Copy a sample preseed.cfg to it (some answers had been changed to
>> match my needs).
>> 3. Boot from DVD 1 of 8 of Debian 6.0.5
>> 4. From the menu choose "Automated install"
>> 5. Press <Tab> to edit
>> 6. Backspace to remove "Quiet" leaving "--" as last thing on the
>> line.
>> 7. Append "preseed/file=/sdb1/preseed.cfg" to the line
>
> This tells the installer the preseed file is at /<directory>/preseed.cfg.
> If the directory does not exist the installer will not find the file. If
> the file system on the USB stick is not mounted on <directory> the
> installer will still not find the file.
>
> I'd not choose sdb1 as the directory name, but if you choose to keep it:

I hope it's obvious that I thought I was designating a
"physical device" *NOT* a "logical device".
Sorry, but in a lot of ways I still show my CPM-80 heritage ;)

>
> mkdir sdb1
>
> mount -t vfat /dev/sdX1 /sdb1
>
> Both done after getting a terminal with ALT-F2.

That procedure does not AND (i suspect) *CANNOT* work.
REMEMBER, I have a "virgin" machine and DVD 1 of 8.
I insert DVD and instruct BIOS to boot from it.
When menu appears. ALT-F2 does ABSOLUTELY _NOTHING_ ;<

HOWEVER, after performing Step 7 above pressing <Enter> and
allowing install to proceed to the error screen one may then
a. access terminal with ALT-F2
b. enter commands
mkdir sdb1
mount -t vfat /dev/sdX1 /sdb1
c. return to the error screen with ALT-F2
d. press <Enter> twice
e. Choose "Load debconf preconfiguation file" from menu
f. Enjoy your Debian machine

Now to go tweak the example preseed.cfg file to create the
system I want :}


>
>


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Brian

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Nov 5, 2012, 1:30:02 PM11/5/12
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On Mon 05 Nov 2012 at 07:49:29 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:

> Brian wrote:
> >On Sun 04 Nov 2012 at 06:55:41 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >
> >>*My procedure*
> >>1. Partition/format a 16 GB USB stick as single primary partition
> >>formatted as ext2 using Gparted.
> >
> >At this stage of the installer's operation it is very happy to deal with
> >FAT16. I'd suggest you fall in with its wishes rather than having to
> >persuade it to use ext2.
>
> And this is documented where?

The installer has a Manual.

> Just to be safe ;> I grabbed another USB stick and formatted it to
> FAT16 with Gparted.

Doing the right thing is being "safe"?

> >>2. Copy a sample preseed.cfg to it (some answers had been changed to
> >>match my needs).
> >>3. Boot from DVD 1 of 8 of Debian 6.0.5
> >>4. From the menu choose "Automated install"
> >>5. Press <Tab> to edit
> >>6. Backspace to remove "Quiet" leaving "--" as last thing on the
> >>line.
> >>7. Append "preseed/file=/sdb1/preseed.cfg" to the line
> >
> >This tells the installer the preseed file is at /<directory>/preseed.cfg.
> >If the directory does not exist the installer will not find the file. If
> >the file system on the USB stick is not mounted on <directory> the
> >installer will still not find the file.
> >
> >I'd not choose sdb1 as the directory name, but if you choose to keep it:
>
> I hope it's obvious that I thought I was designating a "physical
> device" *NOT* a "logical device".

Whatever you meant to be obvious, wasn't. Which is why I added detail,
to indicate you were heading the wrong way. But you knew that anyway
because d-i got uppity.

> Sorry, but in a lot of ways I still show my CPM-80 heritage ;)
>
> >
> > mkdir sdb1
> >
> > mount -t vfat /dev/sdX1 /sdb1
> >
> >Both done after getting a terminal with ALT-F2.
>
> That procedure does not AND (i suspect) *CANNOT* work.
> REMEMBER, I have a "virgin" machine and DVD 1 of 8.
> I insert DVD and instruct BIOS to boot from it.
> When menu appears. ALT-F2 does ABSOLUTELY _NOTHING_ ;<

Correct. I'm glad I didn't advise it.

> HOWEVER, after performing Step 7 above pressing <Enter> and allowing
> install to proceed to the error screen one may then
> a. access terminal with ALT-F2
> b. enter commands
> mkdir sdb1
> mount -t vfat /dev/sdX1 /sdb1
> c. return to the error screen with ALT-F2
> d. press <Enter> twice
> e. Choose "Load debconf preconfiguation file" from menu
> f. Enjoy your Debian machine

This is what I advised you do. It appears to have worked.

Incidentally, you do not have to create a directory. The installer has
/media and /mnt available for you to use.

preseed/file=/mnt/preseed.cfg"

mount -t vfat /dev/sdX1 /mnt


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