RFS: vbackup
Stefanos Harhalakis
I am looking for a sponsor for my package "vbackup".
* Package name : vbackup
Version : 0.1.6pre1-1
Upstream Author : Stefanos Harhalakis (me)
* URL : http://www.it.teithe.gr/~v13/
* License : GPLv3
Section : admin
It builds these (not-so-)binary packages:
vbackup - A modular backup utility
The package appears to be lintian clean.
The package can be found on mentors.debian.net:
- URL: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/v/vbackup
- Source repository: deb-src http://mentors.debian.net/debian unstable main contrib non-free
- dget http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/v/vbackup/vbackup_0.1.6pre1-1.dsc
I'm sending this RFS for the second time (first was at 30 Dec 2007, see:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2007/12/msg00535.html
The reason I'm sending it again is that I've never got the mail of
this response:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2007/12/msg00537.html
I've just discovered it by searching google for "ITP vbackup" and since I don't
have that email I'm replying here:
----------------------
> > vbackup is a modular backup program. It is a set of scripts that can
> > perform full or incremental system backups. Currently it supports:
> > * Filesystem backups using tar
> > * XFS backups using xfsdump
> > * PostgreSQL backups
> > * MySQL backups
> > * dpkg package list backups
> > and can be easily extended to do other things.
>
> AFAIK there's several backup script packages in Debian, which makes yours
> better/different from the others?
AFAIK it is the only modular backup script that:
a) Can be extended by other packages just by adding files in a predefined
location, just like logcheck does.
b) Can backup filessystems, databases and almost everything else (for example:
dpkg --get-selections)
c) Is not graphical and can be used for server backups
d) Can be used as a meta-backup solution by combining other backup
programs (currently it doesn't do that but patches/proposals are welcome).
> Currently your package doesn't build under pbuilder because clean target
> assumes too much: you have to replace your «$(MAKE) distclean» in
> debian/rules by «[ ! -f Makefile ] || $(MAKE) distclean» or similar.
What confused me was the comment:
# Add here commands to clean up after the build process.
the word "after" make me think that this runs only after a build.
Corrected as suggested.
Also, I believe that I've fixed all lintian errors and removed unused
comments from debian/control
----------------------
The current version is 0.1.6pre1 and will be renamed to 0.1.6 after checking
it in production, adding it to the svn repository (server is down for the next
week) and updating the changelog (svn2cl). When 0.1.6 is tagged I'll also
upload this to my homepage and to freshmeat too but until then, the homepage
will list the old (0.1.5) version.
Kind regards
Stefanos Harhalakis
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martin f krafft
> a) Can be extended by other packages just by adding files in a predefined
> location, just like logcheck does.
> b) Can backup filessystems, databases and almost everything else (for example:
> dpkg --get-selections)
> c) Is not graphical and can be used for server backups
> d) Can be used as a meta-backup solution by combining other backup
> programs (currently it doesn't do that but patches/proposals are welcome).
Like backupninja?
--
.''`. martin f. krafft <mad...@debian.org>
: :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user
`. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck - http://debiansystem.info
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
"i always had a repulsive need to be something more than human."
-- david bowie
Stefanos Harhalakis
> also sprach Stefanos Harhalakis <v...@v13.gr> [2008.07.26.1559 +0200]:
> > a) Can be extended by other packages just by adding files in a predefined
> > location, just like logcheck does.
> > b) Can backup filessystems, databases and almost everything else (for
> > example: dpkg --get-selections)
> > c) Is not graphical and can be used for server backups
> > d) Can be used as a meta-backup solution by combining other backup
> > programs (currently it doesn't do that but patches/proposals are
> > welcome).
>
> Like backupninja?
I didn't knew about backupninja.
There are many similarities and the basic idea is almost the same. vbackup is
designed to support multiple types of backups while backupninja (if I
understand it correctly) supports only one kind of backup at a time. In
vbackup there are directories named backup.XXX under /etc/vbackup that
describe different backup strategies - for example level 0 and level 5. You
just run "vbackup 0" and it runs the /etc/vbackup/backup.0 backup
backupninja supports some extra things and I'm going to copy some of them (I
suppose that there is no license problem - with proper credit of course) and
extend vbackup. It also has the very nice ninjahelper configurator - I've
started coding something similar for vbackup some time ago but stopped.
vbackup currently supports tar and xfsdump backups which backupninja doesn't.
vbackup is also meant to act as a whole while in backupninja each individual
script is a backup of its own (they need their own destination directories).
vbackup does not produce reports other than its output and most probably this
will not change soon.
backupninja is 4 years old while about half of vbackup's functionality is less
than 1 year old.
As a conclusion, I don't know if it will offer something different than
backupninja. I'm going to keep developing it and create debian packages for
my own needs. I'm also making it available in freshmeat for other people to
find it. I leave this decision to you without trying to influence you since
currently my opinion is somehow neutral (even though I'd like to see it in
debian).
Thanks for your time.
martin f krafft
> As a conclusion, I don't know if it will offer something different
> than backupninja. I'm going to keep developing it and create
> debian packages for my own needs. I'm also making it available in
> freshmeat for other people to find it. I leave this decision to
> you without trying to influence you since currently my opinion is
> somehow neutral (even though I'd like to see it in debian).
It was a good analysis. All I wanted to do is challenge you a bit.
Since vbackup is not the same as backupninja, it should go to the
archive. Upload the source package and let us know the URL of the
dsc file...
--
.''`. martin f. krafft <mad...@debian.org>
: :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user
`. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck - http://debiansystem.info
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
"the faster i go, the behinder i get."
-- lewis carroll
Stefanos Harhalakis
> > As a conclusion, I don't know if it will offer something different
> > than backupninja. I'm going to keep developing it and create
> > debian packages for my own needs. I'm also making it available in
> > freshmeat for other people to find it. I leave this decision to
> > you without trying to influence you since currently my opinion is
> > somehow neutral (even though I'd like to see it in debian).
>
> It was a good analysis. All I wanted to do is challenge you a bit.
> Since vbackup is not the same as backupninja, it should go to the
> archive. Upload the source package and let us know the URL of the
> dsc file...
Thanks!
This is already available at:
http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/v/vbackup/
dsc url:
http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/v/vbackup/vbackup_0.1.6pre1-1.dsc
As I mentioned in the original e-mail, my svn repository will be down for
(most probably) the next week, so I won't be able to release a proper version
(tagged in svn and with a changelog file) until it is back. I'll also be afk
for the first 2 weeks of August. Should we postpone it until then? Are there
other things that need to be worked?
Also, should I change the status of it in sponsors and mentors sites? Is this
procedure repeated for every released version?
martin f krafft
> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/v/vbackup/vbackup_0.1.6pre1-1.dsc
>
> As I mentioned in the original e-mail, my svn repository will be
> down for (most probably) the next week, so I won't be able to
> release a proper version (tagged in svn and with a changelog file)
> until it is back. I'll also be afk for the first 2 weeks of
> August. Should we postpone it until then? Are there other things
> that need to be worked?
debian/control:
Build-Depends-Indep: autotools-dev
I don't like if packages configure themselves during build. If
you want me to sponsor, then please provide a proper tarball
with a configure script that doesn't need to be rebuilt; then
drop the build-dep.
remove /^Depends:[[:space:]]*/
I would appreciate a short note about how this compares to other
methods, like backupninja.
Also: the short description ("A modular backup utility") is
repeated in the long description; just delete the first sentence
and s/It/vbackup/.
What does *v* stand for?
debian/copyright:
Are you sure you want "either version 2 of the License, or (at
your option) any later version."? I personally don't support GPLv3
and thus limit all my GPL software to v2.
debian/rules:
It says:
# Sample debian/rules that uses debhelper.
but it's not.
Please also remove extraneous comments.
Finally, lintian says:
W: vbackup: doc-base-unknown-section vbackup:6 admin
you should always make sure lintian produces no warnings and/or
errors before asking for sponsorship.
> Also, should I change the status of it in sponsors and mentors
> sites? Is this procedure repeated for every released version?
Usually you get a sponsor and then work with her/him. I am not ready
to say that I will take on sponsorship because I'd need to be using
vbackup for that to happen, and I have not looked at it yet.
--
.''`. martin f. krafft <mad...@debian.org>
: :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user
`. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck - http://debiansystem.info
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
"toleranz heißt, die fehler der anderen entschuldigen.
takt heißt, sie nicht bemerken."
-- arthur schnitzler
Stefanos Harhalakis
> also sprach Stefanos Harhalakis <v...@v13.gr> [2008.07.28.1250 +0200]:
> > http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/v/vbackup/vbackup_0.1.6pre1-1.
> >dsc
> Build-Depends-Indep: autotools-dev
> I don't like if packages configure themselves during build. If
> you want me to sponsor, then please provide a proper tarball
> with a configure script that doesn't need to be rebuilt; then
> drop the build-dep.
>
> remove /^Depends:[[:space:]]*/
That was a mistake. Removed the Build-Depends-Indep and also removed the
Depends line.
> I would appreciate a short note about how this compares to other
> methods, like backupninja.
Include a comparison of vbackup with other software in the package
description? Somehow I don't find this right. I believe that it is a moving
target that may imply false things regarding other packages at some point in
the future if not updated correctly.
> Also: the short description ("A modular backup utility") is
> repeated in the long description; just delete the first sentence
> and s/It/vbackup/.
>
> What does *v* stand for?
Nothing related to backup. At first it was named sbackup (simple backup) but
since that name was already used I changed it to vbackup (a letter from my
nick). Does this play any role in debian packaging?
> debian/copyright:
> Are you sure you want "either version 2 of the License, or (at
> your option) any later version."? I personally don't support GPLv3
> and thus limit all my GPL software to v2.
Well, in fact, that was an error and thank you for mentioning it. vbackup is
unter GPLv3 since I really don't want to ever accept any patches that include
patented code. Can you provide me with more information regarding the reasons
you dislike GPLv3? Perhaps there are things that I should be aware of but I'm
not.
> debian/rules:
> It says:
> # Sample debian/rules that uses debhelper.
> but it's not.
>
> Please also remove extraneous comments.
Done.
> Finally, lintian says:
>
> W: vbackup: doc-base-unknown-section vbackup:6 admin
>
> you should always make sure lintian produces no warnings and/or
> errors before asking for sponsorship.
I'm using lintian v1.24.2 and there is no such warning:
$ lintian -i vbackup_0.1.6pre1-1.dsc && echo OK
OK
mentors.debian.net's web interface also says that there are no lintian
warnings:
Section: admin
Priority: optional
Lintian warnings: none
Lintian errors: none
Am I missing something here?
I've not uploaded the corrected version to mentors.deiban.net since there may
be other changes too. I've also added more features to the development
version of vbackup and a proper man page. I will make them available as a
newer version when all debian packaging issues are solved.
martin f krafft
> Include a comparison of vbackup with other software in the package
> description? Somehow I don't find this right. I believe that it is
> a moving target that may imply false things regarding other
> packages at some point in the future if not updated correctly.
Then you ought to update it regularly. This is for users. If you are
a user and want to decide between backupninja and vbackup, then it's
really helpful to have a short statement how they compare.
Once vbackup is a real "competitor" to backupninja, backupninja
should also mention vbackup.
> Nothing related to backup. At first it was named sbackup (simple
> backup) but since that name was already used I changed it to
> vbackup (a letter from my nick). Does this play any role in debian
> packaging?
No, just curious. You could put in the README of package description
that the v is arbitrary. Otherwise people might think this is
a "virtual backup" programme.
> > debian/copyright:
> > Are you sure you want "either version 2 of the License, or (at
> > your option) any later version."? I personally don't support GPLv3
> > and thus limit all my GPL software to v2.
>
> Well, in fact, that was an error and thank you for mentioning it. vbackup is
> unter GPLv3 since I really don't want to ever accept any patches that include
> patented code. Can you provide me with more information regarding the reasons
> you dislike GPLv3? Perhaps there are things that I should be aware of but I'm
> not.
It's probably mostly ideological, but I perceive GPLv3 to be
overzealous and trying to solve problems that a software licence
shouldn't be concerned with.
Patches with patented code are a problem even with GPLv2 and most
other licences. The real issue I have with GPLv3 is that it
disallows use of your code in any product that implements DRM.
That's like saying that all DRM is bad, which is overzealous.
But hey, I am not a friend of the GPL as a whole. I agree it's
largely responsible for the growth of Linux and related software,
but it's not Free in the sense that I understand Freedom. It's
viral. :)
Anyway, I am not a lawyer, this is my perception of things which may
well be wrong and probably doesn't square with everyone else's, and
yet, I am not really interested in a discussion about this; I just
use the Artistic Licence 2.0 for (almost) everything I do.
> > W: vbackup: doc-base-unknown-section vbackup:6 admin
> >
> > you should always make sure lintian produces no warnings and/or
> > errors before asking for sponsorship.
>
> I'm using lintian v1.24.2 and there is no such warning:
Hm, maybe I used an outdated one by accident? Thanks for checking
back.
--
.''`. martin f. krafft <mad...@debian.org>
: :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user
`. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck - http://debiansystem.info
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
die wahrheit ist selten
auf seiten der wahrscheinlichkeit.
-- heinrich v. kleist
Stefanos Harhalakis
> also sprach Stefanos Harhalakis <v...@v13.gr> [2008.07.30.1345 +0200]:
> > Include a comparison of vbackup with other software in the package
> > description? Somehow I don't find this right. I believe that it is
> > a moving target that may imply false things regarding other
> > packages at some point in the future if not updated correctly.
>
> Then you ought to update it regularly. This is for users. If you are
> a user and want to decide between backupninja and vbackup, then it's
> really helpful to have a short statement how they compare.
> Once vbackup is a real "competitor" to backupninja, backupninja
> should also mention vbackup.
I still don't agree with that. Using debian for some time now, I don't believe
that most descriptions follow this. Konqueror doesn't compare itself to
Firefox, vim to emacs, alpine to mutt, lighttpd to apache, sbackup, kdat,
bacula and backupninja to each other, etc...
Also, I find it very inefficient to have to update a debian package whenever
another package (that the first one doesn't depend on or suggests or
recommends) adds features. That inefficiency affects not only the maintainer
but also the sponsor, the debian-related servers and all debian users.
After all, I'm not developing vbackup as a replacement for another backup
solution. I'm doing it because I couldn't find another opensource program
that fits my needs and may be extended in every way (most probably I
overlooked backupninja). I just happen to have experience from server backups
as a sysadmin and from home backups as an individual user for about 10 years
(even though I don't consider myself an expert or even an advanced user on
backups) and decided to code a custom solution for my needs and make it
available as an opensource project. I very much prefer to mention what
vbackup does and leave any comparison to others.
> > Nothing related to backup. At first it was named sbackup (simple
> > backup) but since that name was already used I changed it to
> > vbackup (a letter from my nick). Does this play any role in debian
> > packaging?
>
> No, just curious. You could put in the README of package description
> that the v is arbitrary. Otherwise people might think this is
> a "virtual backup" programme.
Most of the time i prefer to focus on the actual thing and not consider titles
at all, but since we're talking about this, what "virtual backup" may
actually stand for? Isn't the description the actual point of reference for
what a program does? One could have used a name like "jupiter" that wouldn't
describe the program at all.
But it seems that you're right on a broader scale and the short description
needs to be extended a bit to better describe what vbackup does. I'll attempt
to fix this.
> > I'm using lintian v1.24.2 and there is no such warning:
>
> Hm, maybe I used an outdated one by accident? Thanks for checking
> back.
Actually AFAICS you're right and there should be a warning.
debian/vbackup.doc-base had the line:
Section: admin
and admin is not a valid section name for doc-base as they are listed at [1].
Either 'admin' works as an alias for 'Administration' or this is actually a
problem (?)... Anyway, being -pedantic, I changed that to "Section:
Administration"
[1] http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/menu-policy/ch2.html
martin f krafft
> I still don't agree with that. Using debian for some time now,
> I don't believe that most descriptions follow this. Konqueror
> doesn't compare itself to Firefox, vim to emacs, alpine to mutt,
> lighttpd to apache, sbackup, kdat, bacula and backupninja to each
> other, etc...
Fair enough.
> > No, just curious. You could put in the README of package description
> > that the v is arbitrary. Otherwise people might think this is
> > a "virtual backup" programme.
>
> Most of the time i prefer to focus on the actual thing and not consider titles
> at all, but since we're talking about this, what "virtual backup" may
> actually stand for? Isn't the description the actual point of reference for
> what a program does?
Sure. But when I saw vbackup, I wondered why it's v*.
--
.''`. martin f. krafft <mad...@debian.org>
: :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user
`. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck - http://debiansystem.info
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
people with narrow minds usually have broad tongues.
Vincent Bernat
15:59, Stefanos Harhalakis <v...@v13.gr> disait :
> I am looking for a sponsor for my package "vbackup".
> * Package name : vbackup
> Version : 0.1.6pre1-1
> Upstream Author : Stefanos Harhalakis (me)
> * URL : http://www.it.teithe.gr/~v13/
> * License : GPLv3
> Section : admin
> It builds these (not-so-)binary packages:
> vbackup - A modular backup utility
Hi Stefanos!
Your GPG key is signed by nobody. You should try to get some people
(preferably related to Debian) to sign your key.
Put the manual page in the debian/ directory. This ensures that all
modifications for Debian are constrained into this directory. And use
dh_installman to install it. This avoids to modify Makefile.am and
Makefile.in.
Your Depends line in debian/control is empty. Are you sure you don't
need any non essential package? From the description, I suppose that you
need something to do MySQL and PostgreSQL database.
It seems that debian/watch is not able to catch the latest version.
debian/copyright says GPLv2 while COPYING says GPLv3. Most files say
GPLv2, so debian/copyright seems to be correct.
You should also correct those lintian warnings:
I: vbackup: hyphen-used-as-minus-sign usr/share/man/man8/vbackup.8.gz:32
W: vbackup: doc-base-unknown-section vbackup:6 admin
Maybe you should ship a minimal configuration like saving /etc and dpkg
database. Usualy, it is better to have a package that is directly
usable. But it is up to you to see if this is revelant here.
--
I WILL NOT FILE FRIVOLOUS LAWSUITS
I WILL NOT FILE FRIVOLOUS LAWSUITS
I WILL NOT FILE FRIVOLOUS LAWSUITS
-+- Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 5F21