lack of gnome on squeeze CD #1
Joey Hess
mass-produced Debian CDs, no longer contains the Gnome desktop
environment, or any self-contained working desktop environment. I believe
the multiarch CD [b] also lacks a DE. I wanted to bring this to the
attention of the desktop and gnome team, who presumably might care, since
I have seen mentions of it, but nobody taking action to fix this.
Apparently the desktop task is just too large for the CD now. The minimum
packages that *must* be on the CD for the desktop task to be offered
at all are as follows:
gnome-desktop-environment
xorg
xserver-xorg-video-all
xserver-xorg-input-all
desktop-base
menu
iceweasel
Some of this could be trimmed, but not much. All told, it
comes to 551 MB of packages. Leaving out the last 2 packages
from the list, it's 550 MB of packages. Leaving out Recommends,
405 MB. IIRC, debian-cd currently treats Recommends like Depends,
and always includes them.
So, some options:
1. Ship squeeze with a CD that requires a fast network to be useful.
Sorta like the netinst CD, but bigger. The default choice.
2. Switch the first CD to be the KDE CD [c], or the XFCE+LXDE CD [d].
3. Find a way to make gnome fit. One way would be to make it include
only a subset of the gnome-desktop-environment task. (Full GNOME
would still be downloaded from a mirror if a mirror was available.)
Or try to trim back the recommends either in debian-cd or
otherwise.
4. Find some other creative solution. For example, we could pack CD #1
full of useful text-mode tools, recovery tools, net admin tools etc,
and round it out with the top packages from popcon and make it a sysadmin
dream CD.
(I think #1 is a pretty dreadful choice. Even on a moderatly fast
network, downloading all that stuff was going to use another hour
of my time this evening. If this happens we should IMHO deprecate use
the CD #1 in all documentation and recommend another CD or DVD.)
[a] http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/squeeze_di_beta1/i386/iso-cd/debian-squeeze-di-beta1-i386-CD-1.iso
[b] http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/squeeze_di_beta1/multi-arch/iso-cd/debian-squeeze-di-beta1-amd64-i386-powerpc-netinst.iso
[c] http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/squeeze_di_beta1/i386/iso-cd/debian-squeeze-di-beta1-i386-kde-CD-1.iso
[d] http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/squeeze_di_beta1/i386/iso-cd/debian-squeeze-di-beta1-i386-xfce+lxde-CD-1.iso
--
see shy jo
Sven Hoexter
> The squeeze CD #1 [a], which is probably still one of the most commonly
> mass-produced Debian CDs, no longer contains the Gnome desktop
> environment, or any self-contained working desktop environment. I believe
> the multiarch CD [b] also lacks a DE. I wanted to bring this to the
> attention of the desktop and gnome team, who presumably might care, since
> I have seen mentions of it, but nobody taking action to fix this.
Please don't shoot me but do we really want to produce CD images beside the
netinst iso? I'm not sure if that's still needed in times of usb thumb drives
all around with a multitude of capacity you've on a CD.
Though I've to admit I'm not sure what's the situation on non i386/amd64
architectures like older ppc boxes. For the newer armel and mipsel systems
I looked at I don't remember optical drives at all.
Sven
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Joey Hess
> Please don't shoot me but do we really want to produce CD images beside the
> netinst iso? I'm not sure if that's still needed in times of usb thumb drives
> all around with a multitude of capacity you've on a CD.
CD images are useful specifically on USB thumb drives. Well, you can use
a DVD image if the drive is > 4gb; the one I keep on my keychain is not,
yet.
--
see shy jo
Josselin Mouette
> Apparently the desktop task is just too large for the CD now. The minimum
> packages that *must* be on the CD for the desktop task to be offered
> at all are as follows:
> gnome-desktop-environment
> xorg
> xserver-xorg-video-all
> xserver-xorg-input-all
> desktop-base
> menu
> iceweasel
Where can that list be found? It looks correct, but different from the
one in tasksel.
(Although seriously, WTF menu? It’s not even activated by default.)
> Some of this could be trimmed, but not much. All told, it
> comes to 551 MB of packages. Leaving out the last 2 packages
> from the list, it's 550 MB of packages. Leaving out Recommends,
> 405 MB. IIRC, debian-cd currently treats Recommends like Depends,
> and always includes them.
So one of the solutions would be to ditch Recommends.
> 1. Ship squeeze with a CD that requires a fast network to be useful.
> Sorta like the netinst CD, but bigger. The default choice.
Like Steve asked, I wonder whether there is a need for a CD other than
netinst at all.
> 2. Switch the first CD to be the KDE CD [c], or the XFCE+LXDE CD [d].
> 3. Find a way to make gnome fit. One way would be to make it include
> only a subset of the gnome-desktop-environment task. (Full GNOME
> would still be downloaded from a mirror if a mirror was available.)
> Or try to trim back the recommends either in debian-cd or
> otherwise.
Full GNOME is already not included, since that would be the “gnome”
package, not “gnome-desktop-environment”.
If you really want to make it fit on a CD, we could use the following
list instead of the one above:
gnome-core
dmz-cursor-theme
epiphany-browser (or iceweasel, but epiphany should be smaller)
gdm3
desktop-base
evince
file-roller
gnome-about
gnome-keyring
gnome-screensaver
gnome-themes
gnome-user-guide
gtk2-engines
gvfs-backends
libgnome2-perl (unless someone finally fixes #542175)
policykit-1-gnome
gnome-disk-utility
And if possible:
gstreamer0.10-alsa
gstreamer0.10-plugins-base
gstreamer0.10-plugins-good
totem
evolution
I can make a metapackage out of this list if it can help.
Cheers,
--
.''`. Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `' “If you behave this way because you are blackmailed by someone,
`- […] I will see what I can do for you.” -- Jörg Schilling
Joey Hess
> Where can that list be found? It looks correct, but different from the
> one in tasksel.
That is the Key packages from the gnome-desktop and desktop tasks in
tasksel.
> So one of the solutions would be to ditch Recommends.
I was wrong about recommends being included currently.
> Full GNOME is already not included, since that would be the “gnome”
> package, not “gnome-desktop-environment”.
Well, that is included in the task as a non-key package, so is
downloaded if possible. (And should be included on the DVD, assuming all
of gnome fits on a DVD :)
We should probably do that. That's enough of gnome not to be laughable?
(network-manager-gnome seems to not be included in that, but then it's
recommended by the gnome-metapackage so would not be included from the
current gnome-desktop-enviromnent using task either, if installing w/o
a network, I think..)
Rough size numbers (probably 20 mb or more off in some direction):
i386 amd64
available space on CD #1 for gnome 372 mb 392 mb
-----------------------------------------------------
gnome-desktop-environment with recommends 543 mb 584 mb
gnome-desktop-environment no recommends 366 mb 394 mb
list 1+2 with recommends 411 mb 436 mb
list 1+2 no recommends 257 mb 279 mb
list 1 with recommends 307 mb 332 mb
list 1 no recommends 214 mb 236 mb
--
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Josselin Mouette
> Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > Where can that list be found? It looks correct, but different from the
> > one in tasksel.
>
> That is the Key packages from the gnome-desktop and desktop tasks in
> tasksel.
Oh, I see.
> > So one of the solutions would be to ditch Recommends.
>
> I was wrong about recommends being included currently.
OK, so we’re left with the need for a smaller metapackage then.
> > Full GNOME is already not included, since that would be the “gnome”
> > package, not “gnome-desktop-environment”.
>
> Well, that is included in the task as a non-key package, so is
> downloaded if possible. (And should be included on the DVD, assuming all
> of gnome fits on a DVD :)
That looks alright.
Yes. Actually gnome-core alone is launchable, but you won’t do much with
it. I’ve added the base theming and enough applications to actually do
something.
> (network-manager-gnome seems to not be included in that, but then it's
> recommended by the gnome-metapackage so would not be included from the
> current gnome-desktop-enviromnent using task either, if installing w/o
> a network, I think..)
Yup, NM is only in the full task.
> Rough size numbers (probably 20 mb or more off in some direction):
>
> i386 amd64
> available space on CD #1 for gnome 372 mb 392 mb
> -----------------------------------------------------
> gnome-desktop-environment with recommends 543 mb 584 mb
> gnome-desktop-environment no recommends 366 mb 394 mb
> list 1+2 with recommends 411 mb 436 mb
> list 1+2 no recommends 257 mb 279 mb
> list 1 with recommends 307 mb 332 mb
> list 1 no recommends 214 mb 236 mb
This would need to be tested, but 1+2 without recommends sounds like the
good thing to add. We could remove the mail client (evolution) if it
turns out too big, nowadays the media player looks more important.
How should I name the new metapackage? My first thought is just to move
these packages from gnome-desktop-environment to gnome-core, and to make
gnome-core the key package.
I’m adding -release to the CC list to see if this suits them.
Joey Hess
> This would need to be tested, but 1+2 without recommends sounds like the
> good thing to add. We could remove the mail client (evolution) if it
> turns out too big, nowadays the media player looks more important.
I'm testing 1+2 in tasksel 2.87 and we can move the list back into a
metapackage if it works. (Uploaded; hopefully the next build of the CD
will have the change.)
> How should I name the new metapackage? My first thought is just to move
> these packages from gnome-desktop-environment to gnome-core, and to make
> gnome-core the key package.
Sounds ok to me.
--
see shy jo
Josselin Mouette
> > How should I name the new metapackage? My first thought is just to move
> > these packages from gnome-desktop-environment to gnome-core, and to make
> > gnome-core the key package.
>
> Sounds ok to me.
I’ve uploaded meta-gnome2 1:2.30+7 with the proposed changes, except
for:
* gdm3: you’ll still have to add it in tasksel
* libgnome2-perl, which on second thought is mostly useless
without synaptic
Please unblock.
Adam D. Barratt
> Le dimanche 05 décembre 2010 à 14:02 -0400, Joey Hess a écrit :
> > > How should I name the new metapackage? My first thought is just to move
> > > these packages from gnome-desktop-environment to gnome-core, and to make
> > > gnome-core the key package.
> >
> > Sounds ok to me.
>
> I’ve uploaded meta-gnome2 1:2.30+7 with the proposed changes, except
> for:
> * gdm3: you’ll still have to add it in tasksel
> * libgnome2-perl, which on second thought is mostly useless
> without synaptic
>
> Please unblock.
Unblocked by Mehdi.
Regards,
Adam
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