Fwd: Watch Foursquare Lift talk live from NY

[David Pollak]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Dave Briccetti <da...@davebsoft.com>
Date: Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Subject: Watch Foursquare Lift talk live from NY
To: Bay Area Scala Enthusiasts <scala...@googlegroups.com>


http://www.justin.tv/n8han

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[Peter Robinett]

If you missed the talk you can download it from the same link. It's a
good one.

One thing mentioned briefly in the talk that I'd like to know more
about is oAuth Server code. Is anyone working on that? How can I help?

Peter

On Dec 7, 3:16 pm, David Pollak <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Dave Briccetti <da...@davebsoft.com>
> Date: Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:15 PM
> Subject: Watch Foursquare Lift talk live from NY
> To: Bay Area Scala Enthusiasts <scala...@googlegroups.com>
>
> http://www.justin.tv/n8han
>
> --
>
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>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net

> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890

[David Pollak]

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Peter Robinett <pe...@bubblefoundry.com> wrote:

If you missed the talk you can download it from the same link. It's a
good one.

One thing mentioned briefly in the talk that I'd like to know more
about is oAuth Server code. Is anyone working on that?

It's on my to-do list.
 

How can I help?

Once I get the code into the repo, you're welcome/encouraged to make it better.
 

Peter

On Dec 7, 3:16 pm, David Pollak <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> From: Dave Briccetti <da...@davebsoft.com>
> Date: Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:15 PM
> Subject: Watch Foursquare Lift talk live from NY
> To: Bay Area Scala Enthusiasts <scala...@googlegroups.com>
>
> http://www.justin.tv/n8han
>
> --
>
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> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/scala-base?hl=en.

>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net

> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890

> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> Surf the harmonics

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[Mateo Barraza]

I can't seem to be able to download the talk. Anyone else having problems?

M>

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[David Pollak]

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Mateo Barraza <mateo....@gmail.com> wrote:

I can't seem to be able to download the talk. Anyone else having problems?

Yeah...  n8han's uploading the video elsewhere... we'll send around an URL once we get one.
 

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Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net

Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890

[Xuefeng Wu]

6:30 p.m. the time zone is -8:00?

Scala中文社区:  http://groups.google.com/group/scalacn

[harryh]

My slide deck (for any that are interested) can be found here:

http://docs.google.com/present/view?id=dcbpz3ck_24f3v83ggz

-harryh

On Dec 8, 12:19 am, Xuefeng Wu <ben...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 6:30 p.m. the time zone is -8:00?
>

> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:58 PM, David Pollak <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> > wrote:

> >> <scala-base%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<scala-base%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

>
> >> >> .
> >> >> For more options, visit this group athttp://
> >> groups.google.com/group/scala-base?hl=en.
>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> >> >> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> >> >> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> >> >> Surf the harmonics
>
> >> > --
>
> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> >> .

> >> > For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en.
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> >> .

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> >>http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en.
>
> > --

> > Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> > Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
>
> > Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> > Surf the harmonics
>
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[Marius]

Very nice stuff !

[Peter Robinett]

On Dec 7, 7:36 pm, David Pollak <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Peter Robinett <pe...@bubblefoundry.com>wrote:
>
> > One thing mentioned briefly in the talk that I'd like to know more
> > about is oAuth Server code. Is anyone working on that?
>
> It's on my to-do list.

This is something we'll need at EQUAL Networks within a month or two.
Do you think you'll get to it within that time period? I'm happy to
take a stab at it first, though I know it's not trivial (I've only
written oAuth clients, not servers).

Peter

[Mateo Barraza]

Anyone still looking into uploading the video version of this prezo?

M>

[Timothy Perrett]

Im sure n8han will put it on blip.tv when he gets a chance. Be patient, im sure it'll come soon :-)

Cheers, Tim

[TylerWeir]

N8han upped it a while ago: http://www.vimeo.com/8057986

On Dec 8, 4:08 pm, Timothy Perrett <timo...@getintheloop.eu> wrote:
> Im sure n8han will put it on blip.tv when he gets a chance. Be patient, im sure it'll come soon :-)
>
> Cheers, Tim
>
> On 8 Dec 2009, at 20:50, Mateo Barraza wrote:
>
>
>
> > Anyone still looking into uploading the video version of this prezo?
>
> > M>
>
> > On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Peter Robinett <pe...@bubblefoundry.com> wrote:
> >> On Dec 7, 7:36 pm, David Pollak <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Peter Robinett <pe...@bubblefoundry.com>wrote:
>
> >>>> One thing mentioned briefly in the talk that I'd like to know more
> >>>> about is oAuth Server code. Is anyone working on that?
>
> >>> It's on my to-do list.
>
> >> This is something we'll need at EQUAL Networks within a month or two.
> >> Do you think you'll get to it within that time period? I'm happy to
> >> take a stab at it first, though I know it's not trivial (I've only
> >> written oAuth clients, not servers).
>
> >> Peter
>
> >> --
>
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lift" group.
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> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to liftweb+u...@googlegroups.com.

> >> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en.

[Mateo Barraza]

that last link works. THanks Tyler!

M>

[DMB]

"I've been with Foursquare for four months, and during this time I've
decided to change their infrastructure to Scala and Lift". LOL.

Good luck hiring devs for this, guys. You will need it.

On Dec 8, 1:49 pm, Mateo Barraza <mateo.barr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> that last link works. THanks  Tyler!
>
> M>
>

[David Pollak]

On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:34 PM, DMB <combu...@gmail.com> wrote:

"I've been with Foursquare for four months, and during this time I've
decided to change their infrastructure to Scala and Lift". LOL.

Good luck hiring devs for this, guys. You will need it.

Why do you say this?  There is an increasing supply of talented Scala developers.  I have nearly a dozen quality developers I know who would rather be doing Scala work than whatever they're doing now... just come to a Scala BASE meeting to meet some of them.

There is also an increasing demand for Scala developers between Twitter, LinkedIn, and KaChing, etc.

Plus, it's a great match... by and large, Scala developers are the intellectually curious sorts who are willing to do extra work in order to get the benefits of Scala... this is an ideal profile for a start-up like FourSquare.  And FourSquare is a wicked hot start-up that offers tremendous upside to anyone who joins now (like Twitter did 2 years ago.)

In fact, Scala is a great filter for FourSquare... they get to cherry-pick from a relatively small, tremendously talented pool of developers.  If I were single and 20 years younger, I'd be updating and sending my resume to FourSquare... and I haven't updated (or had to update) my resume in > 5 years.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en.

[DMB]

>> cherry-pick from a relatively small, tremendously talented pool of developers

Startups never get to "cherry pick" from anything since they don't
have the dough to pay for best work. If I'm a kick ass dev, why would
I trade my six figure salary for a five figure one with a tiny sliver
of equity which may or may not actually be worth anything in the end?

In any startup, I would emphasize readability/maintainability of code,
and broad availability of lower cost workforce. I mean, I would not
LOL if he switched things over to Grails, for instance. Both Java and
RoR devs feel comfortable with that, it's easy as a pie, and it's a
massive improvement over PHP. Sure, it's not as fast as Lift, but I've
found it to be more concise for most things, since the framework does
quite a bit more work for you. More importantly, it's better
documented, it takes far less time to build a site with it, and to
train new devs who are not familiar with the framework. If I were
doing a startup, Scala and Lift would surely not be the top choices.
They could work for an established business with a solid developer
core though (like LinkedIn, for instance).

Don't get me wrong, I like both Lift and Scala (enough to tinker with
both for extended periods of time), but I don't foresee any kind of
mainstream adoption for either of the two. 90% of developers out there
can't grasp even Java fully, and the remaining 10% make enough money
on Java to stick with it.

On Dec 8, 7:47 pm, David Pollak <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > liftweb+u...@googlegroups.com<liftweb%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .

> > > >> >> For more options, visit this group athttp://
> > groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en.
>

> > > >> > --
>
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> > .

> > > >> > For more options, visit this group athttp://
> > groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en.
>

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>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net

> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890

[Jeppe Nejsum Madsen]

DMB <combu...@gmail.com> writes:

>>> cherry-pick from a relatively small, tremendously talented pool of developers
>
> Startups never get to "cherry pick" from anything since they don't
> have the dough to pay for best work. If I'm a kick ass dev, why would
> I trade my six figure salary for a five figure one with a tiny sliver
> of equity which may or may not actually be worth anything in the end?

Because you're sick and tired of maintaining other peoples
EJB/Struts/whatever application?

> In any startup, I would emphasize readability/maintainability of code,
> and broad availability of lower cost workforce.

That sounds more like an enterprise mindset to me.

[...]

> Don't get me wrong, I like both Lift and Scala (enough to tinker with
> both for extended periods of time), but I don't foresee any kind of
> mainstream adoption for either of the two.

Me neither, at least in the near future, but while startups get a lot of
press it will never be the majority of people who will work there. But
startups have to pick the best tools for the job to get something going,
fast. For some (myself included) this meant Scala/Lift.

But the choice of implementation platform/language is seldom the cause
of startup failure.....but I guess that's for another forum :-)

/Jeppe

[DMB]

>> Because you're sick and tired of maintaining other peoples EJB/Struts/whatever

You'll be just as sick and tired of maintaining other people's (and
your own) Scala code in six to nine months, except you'll be doing it
for less money and the code will be in flux all the time. The solution
to the "sick and tired" issue is to have a life outside of work. :-)

>> That sounds more like an enterprise mindset to me.

To me this sounds more like common sense. Programming is a social
activity, and things just work better if more than a few devs on the
team understand the language you're coding in. It also helps to give
the developers as little rope as productively possible, otherwise you
will see people using insane combinations of the most obscure features
just to prove to themselves they can use those features. Seen it
happen with C++ in the past quite often. Folks would learn templates,
get excited, and come up with the most complicated design possible.
You'd just sit there staring at the code in the debugger and go "WTF
was he trying to do here?" Sure, it's generic as hell, but no one will
ever use its "genericness", and bugs take much longer to fix all of a
sudden.

That's why e.g. Google uses only C++, Java and Python. Heck, David
mentioned it took him months to really figure out Scala, and I'm
pretty sure he's better than your average dev by a good margin. It
would probably take him all of 20 minutes to figure out Groovy, and a
day to learn Python. OK, maybe a couple of days, at a leisurely pace.

> But the choice of implementation platform/language is seldom the cause
> of startup failure.....but I guess that's for another forum :-)

That's probably because they tend to pick less exotic stuff. PHP, RoR,
Pylons, Grails. This is not to say that you can't build a successful
startup with Lift -- it's 100% feasible, no question about it. I'm
just saying that a lot of the folks you hire will be crushed by the
cognitive load required to learn both a radically new (and rather
complex) language and a web framework that represents a significant
departure from all the imperative stuff they're used to.

[Timothy Perrett]

I simply could not disagree more on this point. You forget that there was a time when RoR was *very* exotic... you might have heard of a little startup called 37 signals? ;-)

Imperative to functional is a shift, but most developers (bar the lazy ones) usually enjoy a mental challenge. All the developers and real-life lift users that I met at Devoxx this year had a serious buzz about both Scala and Lift... I think you underestimate people: given the right support and warm feeling you'll be surprised what your "average" developer can achieve. In essence, thats what we do over here... we don't have as detailed docs as rails (yet!) for instance, but we have a super smart community that is amazingly helpful to everyone. I know if i were a startup, those would certainly be qualities in a tooling community that would carry a lot of weight in my book (not to mention lift and scala are technically awesome)

Cheers, Tim