Demand a citizens' recall

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Trevor Watkins

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Jan 22, 2009, 5:32:59 AM1/22/09
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Who is accountable for the mess South Africa is in today?
Nobody! That’s our problem. We have very limited mechanisms for
holding the incompetents and crooks accountable, so our problems
continue and escalate. Our much touted constitution has let the
people of South Africa down badly in the area of official
accountability.

As a citizen you get ONE chance every FIVE years to hold the current
government responsible for EVERYTHING they have done, good, bad, and
forgotten. That is such a dumb system I am amazed that anyone can be
persuaded to fall for it. Can you imagine if a supplier like Pick 'n
Pay opened its complaints department for ONE complaint per person,
once every 5 years? Can you imagine a business that allowed its
shareholders to vote only once in 5 years?

Accountability is essential for good governance. The success of
America, it has been said, was built on two words - “You’re fired.” In
much the same vein, Dr Samuel Johnson said “Nothing concentrates the
mind like the threat of a good hanging.” If we are even remotely
serious about improving our country, fighting corruption and crime,
delivering services, then we must start holding the officials
responsible for these tasks accountable to the people who elect and
pay them. This is simply done. You don’t need to setup a conference,
or hold a commission of enquiry, or hire extra consultants. Just
implement the concept of a “Citizens’ Recall”.

Many states in the U.S. allow a citizens’ recall, under varying
conditions, although there is no federal equivalent. Arnold
Schwarzenegger became Governor of California after his predecessor was
successfully recalled by popular vote. No politician or civil servant
can feel safe in office, protected for at least 5 years, when faced
with the threat of a citizens’ recall.

In our recent past, the president of South Africa was recalled, not by
popular vote, but by political skulduggery. Nevertheless, the sky did
not fall in, there was no more chaos than usual. A replacement was
found, and the business of government continued. In fact, our
democracy improved as a direct result of this recall. And, by all
accounts, so did our governance.

I propose the following plan for a citizens’ recall in South Africa:

1. Any elected official or civil servant paid from taxes is subject to
recall.

2. In the event of a successful recall, as defined below, the recalled
official is immediately removed from office. A recall is a punishment
for an official judged to be incompetent by a significant number of
the citizens who pay the official’s salary. The official receives one
month’s salary in lieu of notice, only. The official is not placed on
suspension, there is no appeal, no labour or other employment
regulations apply, no prior contractual agreements may be invoked. The
effect, for legal purposes, is as if the official had died in office.

3. For an elected official, a recall succeeds if the number of recall
ballots exceeds 25% of the votes cast for that official in the last
election. A by-election will be called to replace the recalled
official. The recalled official may not stand in this by-election.

4. For an official elected by proportional representation, the number
of votes cast for that official is calculated as the total number of
votes cast for the official’s party divided by the number of officials
actually elected. For example, if party X receives 100,000 votes,
resulting in 10 officials getting elected, then the votes cast per
official is deemed to be 10,000, and the recall target is 25% of
10,000, or 2,500.

5. For an appointed civil servant, the recall succeeds if the number
of recall ballots exceeds 10% of that official’s basic monthly salary
in Rands, before any extras or incentives. The official may not re-
apply for the same position.

6. A recall ballot may be initiated by any South African citizen
against any specific official.

7. Any South African citizen who is eligible to vote (name appears on
the voters roll) may vote on a recall ballot.

8. A citizen may vote on an authorised ballot issued by the initiator
of the ballot, at any state office (Post Office, SARS, Home Affairs,
Police Station, etc), through ATMs managed by participating banks,
through an authorised website, or by cellphone sms to an authorised
service provider.

9. In all votes the voter’s identity will be confirmed and will be
validated against the voters roll, as for any ordinary election.
Thereafter, the vote will be anonymous (i.e no record of the identity
of the voters on a ballot is kept.) Only one vote per citizen per
ballot is allowed.

What would be the effect of instituting a citizen’s recall? The
performance of every government official from the humblest to the
mightiest, would be subject to review, not by a toothless audit
committee, nor a bunch of like-minded cronies, nor loyal members of
the official’s own party, nor an equally incompetent boss, but by an
independent group of citizens interested only in getting value for
their hard-earned tax rands. The civil servants would quake in their
boots. They would wet themselves. They would instantly focus on how to
please their constituents, instead of their boss, or their party. They
would know that corruption and incompetence could actually cost them a
seat on the gravy train. They might even start serving the community
instead of themselves.

Would this lead to chaos in a civil service already stretched to
breaking point? Would civil servants leave government employ in
droves? Would the unions never allow it? It is the incompetent time-
servers already in government who are responsible for the current
crisis. Getting rid of them could only improve the situation, like
removing poison from your body. South Africa’s problem is
unemployment - there are literally millions waiting for a chance to
prove themselves by taking over the jobs of departing civil servants.
Even if the new guys are useless, at least we now have a mechanism for
sorting the wheat from the chaff. Of course the unions would oppose
such a proposal. They oppose anything that threatens their comfortable
stranglehold on the country and the economy. But nothing worthwhile is
achieved without effort.

As a South African citizen, your one chance in 5 years to make your
voice heard is here now! For a few brief months all the politicians
are actually listening to what you have to say. Use this rare
opportunity to insist that you will only vote for a party that
supports the concept of a citizens’ recall.

Trevor Watkins

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Feb 6, 2009, 5:13:30 AM2/6/09
to LibertarianSA
For those sophisticated libertarians for whom the idea of a citizen's
recall is oh so passe and boring that it is not worthy of even a
single response (who, me, bitter?), have a look at the opinions of the
man-in-the-street on the subject at
http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/readerblog/2009/02/05/demand-a-citizens-recall-now/#comment-70095

Galen Sher

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Aug 23, 2010, 4:32:46 PM8/23/10
to li...@googlegroups.com
FYI: Discussion on citizens recall below

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Trevor Watkins <bas...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Demand a citizens' recall
To: Galen Sher <gale...@gmail.com>


The email must be sent to li...@googlegroups.com to go to all libsa

Trevor Watkins - Base Software
bas...@gmail.com 083 44 11 721 - 042 293 1405 - (fax)0866 532 363
http://sketchesbyboz37.blogspot.com http://libsa.myfreeforum.org
PO Box 3302, Jeffreys Bay, 6330


On 23 August 2010 14:54, Galen Sher <gale...@gmail.com> wrote:
why is this conversation not appearing on LibSA? It would be better if everyone there could follow.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Galen Sher <gale...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: Demand a citizens' recall
To: Trevor Watkins <bas...@gmail.com>


Thanks Trevor. By this interpretation, it seems you agree with my take that a citizens' recall is less necessary than an informed electorate that votes on policies and performance. I believe the latter is the easier goal.


On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Trevor Watkins <bas...@gmail.com> wrote:
'All' we need is for South Africans to get informed and to vote based on policies and performance rather than on devotion to one liberation movement.
Ah, do you mean like all those Afrikaners did for forty years...?

To make it blindingly simple. For over 40 years, white South African Afrikaners voted for one particular "liberation" movement called the National party, irrespective of its policies and performance, dire as these were. Our current bunch of voters still have 24 years to go before they come close to this record. 


Trevor Watkins - Base Software
bas...@gmail.com 083 44 11 721 - 042 293 1405 - (fax)0866 532 363
http://sketchesbyboz37.blogspot.com http://libsa.myfreeforum.org
PO Box 3302, Jeffreys Bay, 6330



On 23 August 2010 13:15, Galen Sher <gale...@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't see the analogy there. Nevertheless, would a citizens' recall have made a difference if it were exclusionary?


On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Trevor Watkins <bas...@gmail.com> wrote:
Ah, do you mean like all those Afrikaners did for forty years...?

Trevor Watkins 


On 20 August 2010 10:51, Galen <gale...@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't even know if a citizen's recall is strictly necessary. 'All'
we need is for South Africans to get informed and to vote based on
policies and performance rather than on devotion to one liberation
movement.

oblever

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Feb 2, 2013, 11:32:35 AM2/2/13
to li...@googlegroups.com, jmha...@acenet.co.za
Ah yes - great system - but in Africa??? Not in our life time. Fight for it by all means - after all, David conquered Goliath.

Trevor wrote:
If we are even remotely 
serious about improving our country, fighting corruption and crime, 
delivering services, then we must start holding the officials 
responsible for these tasks accountable to the people who elect and 
pay them

I agree and we are trying but power corrupts and the ANC has the power now. 
What about the future? How many millions of orphaned and homeless kids are
running around the streets right now - without a family structure to give some
sort of moral background? Without education and a sense of belonging they 
become the next crop of criminals to follow the corrupt example of many of
our politicians. I would be happier if our tax money was being poured into 
free child education and caring accommodation especially for these kids and 
not into pointless and wasteful ANC self indulgence.

Trevor wrote
South Africa’s problem is 
unemployment - there are literally millions waiting for a chance to 
prove themselves by taking over the jobs of departing civil servants. 
Even if the new guys are useless, at least we now have a mechanism for 
sorting the wheat from the chaff.  

Really - I doubt that there is much will in the current culture of entitlement.
Jobs for friends is the order of the day. Yes, kick them out if they don't perform
and again and again - think of the cost of adminstering the ballots each time for 
what could become and endless cycle with collapsing governance inbetween.

Galen wrote:
'All' we need is for South Africans to get informed and to vote based on
policies and performance rather than on devotion to one liberation

movement.
Exactly my point Galen but how do you get a largely uneducated public
to even understand the meaning of being informed and then act with savvy
when it comes to making rational decisions.We are breeding a never ending
crop of incopetence in this country through lack of care and education of all
children and especially the homeless street kids.


On Thursday, 22 January 2009 12:32:59 UTC+2, Trevor Watkins wrote:
Who is accountable for the mess South Africa is in today?
Nobody! That’s our problem...........................

Sasha Hitchner

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Feb 2, 2013, 4:19:08 PM2/2/13
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I became tired of watching the communities around me collapsing in on themselves, tired of waiting for someone to come and sort it out, tired of dreaming of better days, as my ouma used to say, so I found, by divine hand, a pastor in the township, Joe Slovo, willing to work with me.
 
I thought communication skills were important, because if one understands the language, the words people use for politics etc then one can better decide, I thought, who to vote for and, and, and - but, alas, it wasn't long before I realised that, really, the community does not want to learn English.  They want to learn how to live.
 
I mentioned to a friend who works for the same company my husband does that if the company was going to spend any money on the contract in Mossel Bay this time, (as it usually does, giving back to the community work) could he perhaps put in a word for my Joe Slovo Project.  I was hoping for money for paper and pencils at that time - anything really, but instead I got a huge container.  He follows my blogs.  The church moved from a leaking roof and holy walled shack into the container.  The company personnel were inspired to collect funds for the church and they raised enough money at their end of the year function for us to be able to buy the pastor's house so that we can apply for the papers for the container and get electricity to it and and and ... a miracle of putting money where the mouth is.
 
The pastor is an exceptional man, I must say, so this helps.  He reads avidly, even though with difficulty, because English is not his mother tongue, and his education was in Xhosa, but no matter.  He reads. 
 
And, since I have a bookshop, that helps!
 
However, the miracle container smacked us all in the gob.  Its existence has moved us all to step up to it, become worthy of it, and so here we are now, at the beginning of a vision.
 
If any of you follow my blog, "A thin book of Knowledge" you will find the progress, the vision and the intended work.  But for those who have no time, the short version is that we intend to start home gardens.  People need food.  Will need to send suitable fellow to a course of permaculture, which is doing great things in the growing of food business, but this costs R6000.  The plan is that he then will become the teacher for the community and the gardens will begin. It might have to be me.   All the land is basically sea sand so not suitable for growing things. Not yet.  And I know nothing about gardening.
 
The women want to learn to sew and bake items for selling.   So if we grow food, make things, and bake things, we can sell it to the community and feed the nation.
 
Carpenters - we are going to learn how to build a house with wooden pallets.  I know a young man who can do this for me.
 
There is alady in our town that wants to work with young adults, those who have done matric ... looks good there.
 
There are plans for the young adults to come for lectures, create "work" for them to become the guardians of the children (Nigerian/others steal children for sex - sometimes they are found, sometimes not).  Others will be security guards of the township at night.   And generally just the eyes of the community.  I have heard that there is a white woman "doctor" who comes into the shacks as a "doctor" but she operates on people, steals their organs - right here in Mossel Bay - and there is no one to stop them.  I hear these things, but I dont see them.  Tik is rife.  Nigerians and Somalians are the "spasa shops" that supply the alcohol and and and - local people struggle to get permission to start spasa shops - so we will over come this by not having a shop as such, but home industries where people can go to buy vegetables from gardens, bread frrom bakers, etc etc ...  Get the community to work for the community and enrich their own lives in the process.   This is the dream.
 
There will be a clean up gang.
There will be recycling projects.
The SPCA is already on board helping me help dogs injured, sick and straying.  I already have a gang of six dogs that know my car and hug me, literally, every time I enter the street where they live.  I deliver dog food for them and the pastor feeds them.  I have had three dogs spayed and one dog's septic foot healed, and confiscated two dogs with the pastor's help and the owner's of the dogs permission.
 
Our vision is to make Joe Slovo so attractive with progress that other townships will follow our lead, and business will become more enthusiastic about donating money to the cause.  I do not allow money to flow down any black holes, into other people's pockets.   I have used my own resources (my husband's really) to strengthen the pastor and his family, and lay out a little extra so that he can assist those in desperate need.  The more we uplift, the stronger the faith in the future becomes.
 
It is early days yet, but I am determined that I will change Joe Slovo so that it becomes a model for all townships and that in time CNN and the rest of the big boys will come with their cameras and we will be on TV.
 
So, if any of you have any desire to help me with this work, please feel free.  I am not a do-gooder.  I love this country and I can think of no other way to fix it except by getting into my car, taking my lily white self into the township, sitting down and talking, being there for those who need advice and help and and and -
 
A friend gave me a title:  Human potential development specialist.  I laughed at the time, but I have adopted the title because that is what I do.  I develop human potential.   If we strengthen the good men and women in this country, we strengthen the possibility of a future.  If we do not, then ... well... fight or flee.  But it is not for the feint hearted.  One cannot just come and go.  One has to come and stay and work and sweat, die with despair, feel as though one is fighting a losing battle, and never give up.  Only if the community sees you are for real will they stand with you.  And being for real costs money and time.
 
I believe the time for theory is over.  It's action now.   At home I feel like the brain. In the township I know I am the pinky.  One does need to find a good man to work with though.
 
I have just given him my last copy of The Fountainhead.  He has The Zohar.  He has my heart and my will.
 
I am also of the opinion that government is redundant.  Forget about them.  Work with the individuals, because, after all, don't we all believe that it is the individual that changes things, invents things, moves the moutnains?
 
I have worked closely with African my whole life and I have found that if you match them in heart, you can move mountains.
It is the "but in africa?" idea that stops us doing things because we dont believe we can change a people so far gone.  They are not that far gone, but Lord knows, they are starving and desperate, dying of isolation, fearful of having things because of "jealousy" the condition that plagues Africa.  I intend to turn that negative into a positive.  I intend to make other townships jealous of Joe Slovo.  Everyone's going to want a Joe Slovo township.  But, I am old - 62 - and my body is not as willing as the spirit. I trust that I will be able to carry on the good fight for a few more years, but I only ever commit one year at a time.
 
"I have one year left of work. Make it count!" I say.
 
Pastor Tshungu counts the days.
 
"One month of the year is already gone, Sasha.  We must hurry!"
 
And so we do.
 
I know. I know.  People are always telling me I am a dreamer and it can't be done.  All I can say is I am going to give it my best shot.   Any help will be welcome.  Advice, money, books, plans, ideas, ANYTHING!
 
If any of you give me any support, I give you my word that it will be well used.  Will supply reports and pictures.
 
If any of you know how to obtain a birth certificate for a woman who has no family so she can get an ID - I will kiss your feet.
 
Happy Sunday.
 
Sasha

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Trevor Watkins

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Feb 3, 2013, 2:42:38 AM2/3/13
to LibertarianSA
I have just noticed that Jim never sent his reply to me on to Libsa, so I share it with you almost 4 years to the day after it was originally posted.

Trevor Watkins - Base Software
bas...@gmail.com 083 44 11 721 - 042 293 1405 - (fax)0866 532 363
PO Box 3302, Jeffreys Bay, 6330
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: JIM HARRIS <jmha...@acenet.co.za>
Date: 22 January 2009 19:35
Subject: RE: Demand a citizens' recall
To: Trevor Watkins <bas...@gmail.com>
Cc: Neil Emerick <ne...@nightsbridge.co.za>, Gareth Williams <gareth.wi...@orange.fr>


Recall - interesting digression.

 

I had an existentialist moment doing the dishes. The absurdity of it all. I had a sudden vision of somewhere in central Asia back in the good old days. Rumours trickling in of a giant unstoppable horse-horde led by that Ginghis Kahn chappie. People unable to absorb the meaning of it all, getting on with their busy lives, enthusiastically planting their veggies, meeting their mates to discuss local politics, devising ways to improve irrigation or fire-watch, writing indignant letters about potholes and housebreakings to the local rag, and so on.

 

Here we sit, Trevor, at (in?) a periodic cusp/shift/break in history. I'm not even sure anymore whether Fislam or the Crash is the main threat and there could be others sweeping in like tsunami waves for all anyone knows.

 

And all I know is that nothing - nothing – happening in Southern Africa will make a blind bit of difference to our fates as global citizens-denizens. This hopeless continent is simply wholly irrelevant in the greater scheme of things even if it was producing any significant movers and shakers.

 

Well, I never expect you to respond to the point (probably a compliment?) but I always need someone at whom to aim pondering emails.

 

Here are a couple of today's bearing somewhat on the absurdity of the local game. BTW I comment weekly on FMF articles, generally ending roughly “but where's the possibly-effective change-persuasive argument?”

 

Commenting:

 

 

The key to SA’s chronic and persistently high rates of unemployment

By Jasson Urbach

 

The ANC’s recently released election manifesto places the “Creation of decent work and sustainable livelihoods” as its number one priority and wouldn’t it be luvly to assume they imply their promotion of fast (or any) economic growth as the route … rather than merely the endless racist redistribution of assets and opportunities

 

the grandiose goal of halving this rate by 2014 yes, it was/is a large, ambitious, imposing/impressive (grandiose) and highly desirable (sub-)goal, simply unachievable within assorted constraints out of which the ANC can’t/won’t break as it …continues with its existing policies and strategies.

 

one can easily lose sight of their primary role – to raise the wages and improve the working conditions of their members relative to equally productive workers in an identical, competitive, non-unionised sector. Unionists wouldn’t agree with that rather anti-union ‘mind-reading’!

 

To do this, trade unions have to block potential competition – usually from low-skilled individuals who are willing to accept lower wages rather than face the bleak option of being unemployed with the consequence of starvation for themselves and their dependants.

 

For workers within the unionised sector, wages are (or, can temporarily appear relatively more) secure but inequality in the general population increases because some individuals are earning money whilst others are effectively prevented from entering the market at the lower end. You could of course get such effects with unions not especially privileged by government, through their (human-rights/constitutional) free associations and agreements with uncoerced employers. I guess the part we’re properly against is only the state-privileging of unions and their demands over against employers/others.

 

In order to achieve the ruling party’s stated objective of radically reducing unemployment, we must carefully weigh how labour market policies affect unemployment and hence SA’s prospects for growth and reducing poverty. In this regard, it is important that we do not focus just on the good intentions behind these policies but, perhaps even more importantly, rigorously investigate any unintended consequences.  Considering the role of labour unions (partly to bargain collectively and partly to block the entry of potential competition), it should be clear that they have a vested interest in ensuring that their members are protected, whatever the implications of that protection may be. They are primarily concerned with the interests of their members and the rights of ordinary South Africans come second. Isn’t that true of any/all other sectoral groupings – employers, politicians, public servants, think-tankers, clerics, consumers,  etc.? Isn’t it more a matter of how one views protection and government’s various other roles and ‘services’? Isn’t SA full of pro-government thinking? So doesn’t this whole paragraph speak truth (as we see it) in a manner extremely unlikely to influence local thinking? … Hey I keep conceding I also don’t have the trick, the answer, the words that will work the desired magic. It’s simply the challenge we’re not yet rising to meet effectively. Must try harder. F-   Just kidding. B-   J…j

 

Government, current and post-election, must start to think honestly and sincerely about ordinary, poor South Africans – regardless of colour. It has to weigh up the risks of taking on vested interests problem is, in this premature effectively-unlimited democracy the Xhosa/Nguni/black-black majority rules to further its vested interests in endless redistribution, so much faster-delivering than the faster economic growth we’d prefer.

 

 

 

From George Soros’ Quantum Fund co-founder Jim Rogers:

 

‘The idea that you can fix a period of excessive borrowing and excessive consumption by more borrowing and more consumption to me is just ludicrous.’

 

Something, however, has to be done and I suppose it’s too much to hope that our wise global leaders will do the ‘something’ of doing nothing. Especially Obama/Sarko/Brown. Maybe we should be looking out for places with Reagan/Coolidge-type leaders. When Coolidge was reported dead, Dorothy Parker asked ‘How can they tell?’

 

 

 

SAIRR’s 01/2009 Fast Facts assembles some recent leadership quotes.

 

(15/22.10 BD) ANC pres Jacob Zuma: ‘We have to achieve sound economic growth and development’ … ‘We will have to simultaneously accelerate economic growth and transform the quality of that growth – we have made the creation of decent work, poverty eradication, and combating inequality the centre of our economic policies. We are very determined to achieve thses goals to improve the standard of living of the poor and the working class.’

 

(3.10 M&G) SA pres Kgalema Motlanthe was a Manuel-like hint that the welfare state needs shrinking. ‘The fact that 12-million of our (48m) people are recipients of grants is not sustainable; for their own dignity it’s much better if people have decent jobs.’

 

BTW (16.1 FM) NWC planner Jeff Radebe clarifies the ANC election manifesto that ‘decent work’ is ‘the cornerstone of all our efforts’ and will need ‘laws to regulate contract work, subcontracting and outsourcing, steps to reduce the role of labour brokers who rent out labour to large corporations on flexible terms, and punishing employers who don’t provide decent work by refusing them state tenders.’ Also, Reserve Bank’s focus will need to change to include job creation.

 

(12.10 S Ind) imminent (I reckon) finance minister (Mathews Phosa): ‘We (SA’s post-Polokwane ANC leadership) want to direct more funds to create better infrastructure in the health, education, and housing sectors. We also want to accelerate infrastructure creation to alleviate poverty. We understand, however, that we cannot kill the goose that lays the golden eggs, namely the private sector. So we will be doing everything possible in our power to create a policy and regulatory framework within which the private sector can prosper and create tax rands for us with which we can accelerate delivery and expand our network of social services.’

 

So - does the ANC want real GDPpercapita growth?

 

… or only for GDP not to shrink too much?

 

 

 

Hi Vivian. Your homeland’s not so different, eh? So far, two rather sadly stagnating economies. Lots of work for us freemarketers to do! J…j

 

Worldbank showed only a couple of middle years (1990/1995) of Cameroon’s tax%ofGDP, at 9.8% and 8.6% - like China/India rather than SA’s current 29%. I’d be interested to know from you if government’s effective take/share of the economy is really so low – and if so, what else is wholly stifling growth?.

 

Cameroon

EF

$GDPpc

population

life expy.

savings

 

 

const 2000 $

years

% of GDP

1970

 

493.2

6,837,790.00

46.2

7.4

1975

 

594.3

7,824,647.00

 

7.6

1980

5.8

698.3

9,078,130.00

51.5

6.3

1985

5.8

941.9

10,514,988.00

54.2

24.2

1990

5.7

718.4

12,238,909.00

54.6

16.1

1995

5.2

568.4

14,058,403.00

53

13.7

2000

5.7

635.2

15,860,778.00

50.8

16.1

2001

6

648.4

16,240,110.00

 

16.7

2002

5.9

658.7

16,627,376.00

49.8

15.1

2003

5.9

669.5

17,018,907.00

 

15.5

2004

5.9

678.7

17,409,433.00

 

16.9

2005

5.7

677.5

17,795,149.00

50.2

14.5

2006

5.8

688.3

18,174,696.00

50.3

17.3

 

 

 

 

 

 

SA

EF

$GDPpc

population

life expy.

savings

 

 

const 2000 $

years

% of GDP

1970

6.7

3,104.00

22,087,000.00

53.1

20.8

1975

5.9

3,316.50

24,728,000.00

 

24.4

1980

5.8

3,463.20

27,576,000.00

57.1

34.1

1985

5.4

3,262.70

31,307,880.00

59.4

25

1990

5.3

3,151.80

35,200,000.00

61.9

19.5

1995

6.3

2,960.40

39,120,000.00

58

16.5

2000

7

3,019.90

44,000,000.00

48.5

15.8

2001

6.9

3,046.30

44,812,420.90

 

15.6

2002

6.9

3,127.80

45,245,622.00

46.5

16.9

2003

7

3,186.30

45,801,325.00

45.5

15.8

2004

6.9

3,301.10

46,347,516.00

44.6

14.4

2005

7.1

3,429.00

46,892,428.00

47.7

14.2

2006

7

3,562.10

47,391,025.00

50.7

13.9

 

 

 

< I haven't checked this out. If anyone does, please let me know if it's a hoax.>

 

Dunno, Leon, but it’s an illuminating narrative (and isn’t all of history?) and fairly in line with global trends as explored for example in Mark Steyn’s “America Alone”. However I doubt that short twenty years for Britain (unlike say France) and anyway we know how dodgy it can be projecting population or other trends (near or) far into the future. Plus it’s unsurprisingly appearing that not all non-Muslim populations are equally prone to conversion. But no doubt there will be some Muslim-dominated local councils soon enough, as already here and there in Europe. And then, so what?

 

Reminds me of when I asked our pleasant Gerhardt’s co-owner the Muslim Indian the same kind of Koranic infidel-killing question and he wisely responded “no comment”. Also reminds me of student days when I used to ask my Irish girlfriend’s Camden pals how they felt about IRA killing of innocent Brits. It’s easier to imagine that such great enemy-groupings predominantly consist of nice family folk like ourselves. And who can access “actual proportions”?

 

 

 

And finally, latest Time mag carries an interesting set of coloured circles proportional to several large $-rescue packages since Rooseveldt’s, in both then-$ and 2009 dollar terms, indicating just how order-of-magnitude larger is the intended Obama package even than Dubya’s.

 

 

 

No doubt – well, 3F - we will all live relatively comfortably through this latest period. Only, like Evron Els (except cabbages) I can’t yet imagine how. So many pricks! J…j


Frances Kendall

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Feb 3, 2013, 3:30:46 AM2/3/13
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Good to hear Jim's voice again.

Sent from my iPad

Frances Kendall

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Feb 3, 2013, 3:34:24 AM2/3/13
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This sounds amazing Sasha - and this is really taking responsibility seriously! Will check out your blog.

Sent from my iPad

Trevor Watkins

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Feb 3, 2013, 4:25:26 AM2/3/13
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Hi Sasha

Thanks for your interesting and thoughtful reply. It motivated me to read some of your blogs, and to comment on 1.

Just a brief comment on door gardens (gardens in townships grown on a piece of ground the size of a door.)  I was motivated to promote these in our local Ocean View township back in 2009. However, I thought it best to do some personal research first, so I built a door garden in my own little garden first.  It was back breaking labour! You need to dig  a BIG hole down to at least half a metre depth, in hard stony ground.  I got it done, but it took about 6 hours and I was knackered at the end. Then you fill it with compost and soil, plant some seeds, and water it daily until you have lots of veggies.  Although a bit of experience quickly accumulates, I had no seeds, and no clue as to what would grow or when,  Finally, I got seeds planted and they started to grow. What delight! Made the whole thing worthwhile, seriously. But we were in the middle of a drought. No hose pipes allowed. Every day I had to shlep 5 or 6 buckets of water to the patch. Then the bugs appeared, the birds came down, the local cats and dogs discovered a new sandpit. I had to make a fence, and get some bug killer. Finally, plants like tomatos grew vigorously, then fell over under their own weight. I had to setup trellises and carefully tie the plants to them. Then the plants ripened. I had to harvest every day, or else the fruits got rotten. I had more tomatos than I knew what to do with.  I was very proud, but somewhat bemused. Have you seen how cheap tomatos and lettuces are at Checkers?

Bottom line, do not underestimate how much work is involved in even a small garden. Do not underestimate how good the market is at supplying basic foodstuffs cheaply. But equally, do not underestimate the pride and pleasure in making something grow out of the earth.

Trevor Watkins - Base Software
bas...@gmail.com 083 44 11 721 - 042 293 1405 - (fax)0866 532 363
PO Box 3302, Jeffreys Bay, 6330


Jaco Strauss

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Feb 3, 2013, 5:14:26 AM2/3/13
to Libertarian SA

Yes, I have to agree with you Trevor as I have also tried it. Hard work, pests such as moles and not to mention the cost of water. Water became very expensive during the last Cape drought when nobody minded the hikes because "something had to be done in order to preserve the water supply".

Of course the price didn't come down again once it started to rain and the dams filled up. Not even after a change of government. The cost of water in Somerset West alone therefore probably makes it economically non-viable.

What I do fine works very well, is a potted herb garden as well as fruit trees in big pots, combined with vermicomposting and water tanks. Most organic waste gets recycled via vermicomposting to produce bumper crops. And pests like moles cannot share in the spoils.

Best of both worlds, you get the pleasure of growing something worthwhile, while reducing your domestic waste and saving money!

But yes, not really applicable to the question of door gardens in townships. So keep up the good work Sasha, I appreciate some of the challenges you must be experiencing.


J


2013/2/3 Trevor Watkins <bas...@gmail.com>



--
Jaco Strauss
Cape Town

Sasha Hitchner

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Feb 3, 2013, 12:46:32 PM2/3/13
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Trevor, you make me laugh.  I can just see the whole thing unfolding. 
 
So, that is why we need to do this permaculture course which is two weeks long and apparently, a recognised accomplishment in the plant growing world.  Anyway, I won't have to dig any holes and and and - have labour - free - if I can convince the lads its worth pursuing.  The abundance is great in the township because trading is then possible.  Even if it's swapping my cabbage for your carrots kind of thing.  The wonderful thing about Africans is that they do not like to eat when they know the neighor next door is hungry.  They share.  If nothing else we will provide occupation for the young fellows, and provide food for the hungry, and hopefully, inspire a little trade for savings and buying new seeds etc.
 
I don't know about the worm thing though.   That's a little creepy. For me.  My friend tells me that chickens are great for fertilising. You get a "hok" and let the chickens live in it for a bit, and then you pick it up and move it to the next piece of land.  So its a mobile floorless cage that accommodates the hens and chicks, of which there are plenty in the township - and it will protect them from dogs - and the dogs from them - the dogs get hung and all manner of other tortures if they eat the chickens or the eggs - and we get to fertilse the land.  How to build the hok is the next thing to find out.   And ... of course, free range chickens don't cost money. They feed themselves. If in a hok they will need feeding.  Sigh!  Anyway, looking into that too.
 
Young Jaryd took one look at my tomato plant  (me, also trying this thing out first from a doffie point of view, being as everyone else is as dof as I am in this) and said,  "Sash ... your tomato plant has ... (some unpronounceable ailment) and it's going to collapse."  He also made a wooden affair to hold it up because, he says," if you don't, it gets the .... "  whatever it was.  Marigolds keep the bugs away.  You have to have some all over the veggie garden. Natural perticide.  He has done this course.  He is now off to Watervalboven where he will be running a backpackers, a nursery, a bookshop and a restaurant - he also cooks.   Poor me - I had such plans for him, but he's young and careers call louder than old women's passions.
 
Thank you all for your responses.
Sasha

Judy Stockill

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Feb 3, 2013, 1:10:39 PM2/3/13
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Where is Joe Slovo? judy



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Stephen vJ (Gmail)

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Feb 3, 2013, 3:52:24 PM2/3/13
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Well, if there were a Heaven, then I am pretty sure Communists would not be allowed into it.

 

S.

Jaco Strauss

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Feb 3, 2013, 4:34:24 PM2/3/13
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RTFLOL

I remember the day he died had been an extremely HOT one..... Somebody joked at the time that it must have beeen the gates opening up for him LOL 


2013/2/3 Stephen vJ (Gmail) <sjaar...@gmail.com>



--
Jaco Strauss
Cape Town

Trevor Watkins

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Feb 4, 2013, 1:37:35 AM2/4/13
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Hi Chuck
Welcome to Libsa. Nice article. 
On the subject of making government irrelevant, here is an article I wrote recently on much the same subject. http://sketchesbyboz37.blogspot.com/2012/12/bypassing-government.html
 
Trevor Watkins 
On 3 February 2013 21:40, Chuckra <chu...@gmail.com> wrote:


On Thursday, 22 January 2009 12:32:59 UTC+2, Trevor Watkins wrote:
Who is accountable for the mess South Africa is in today?
Nobody! That’s our problem....

This is now becoming more and more important, and worth trying to implement, difficult as it is.  But it is only one of a series of key actions we need to take.if we are to turn around the devastating collapses of governance, infrastructure and trust which we now face.

Sasha Hitchner

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Feb 4, 2013, 4:33:02 AM2/4/13
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Hi Judy,
Joe Slovo is a township of Mossel Bay area.  It's not the poorest, but pretty poor.  But it's the only township that I found a man willing to work with me.  I have tried other means, but they always fail.  This time I have hope of some real "action"/ "change."
Sasha

Judy Stockill

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Feb 13, 2013, 1:18:39 PM2/13/13
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Thanks. It was in the news just after I asked. I am in Joburg.



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