* Fantasy Execs are kings, firebots are dragons, maxes are wizards, puffers are puffers, snipeys are archers, miners are dwarves
* "Away Team" Execs are starship captains, everyone else is a redshirt of various specialties (except puffers, who are just puffers): engineering, heavy weapons, security, etc. Execs can be human, Gorn, Vulcan (not really those, but various races for flavor). This would really give it the Zap Brannigan thing I was looking for, and a better reason why EVERYONE DIES when they join the army.
I guess I'll throw my random opinion in on this topic... Perhaps I'm taking a cue from what I've learned at EA, but I would say how you portray the characters should really depend on who your target audience will be. For me personally, I think the current characters and theme are fine. The sort of near-future / sci-fi setting with simple, tongue-in-cheek, hapless-looking characters fits well with how I feel that the game isn't supposed to be played terribly seriously. ...But I have no idea what you should do if you were to, say, target social networking sites.
Depending on how much art you want to make / commission, it might be a fun customization option for players to choose their team's theme -- anything from the current sci-fi-ish, to fantasy, to urban gangsta, to steam punk, or (if you want to be particularly silly) even to prehistoric. You could even make the themes unlockable to provide incentives for continued play. If you did go this route, it'd be important to keep common elements across all members of an archetypes -- like the exec being the only unit with two eyes and the max being a big, chunky guy -- to allow for easy identification.
Anyway, just some random thoughts of mine, with the caveat that I've always had a soft spot for games with a tongue-in-cheek theme to emphasize that it's the mechanics, not the visual flair, that are the interesting bits. :P
-- George
P.S. -- If for some reason it becomes an issue, I may not be able to reply for awhile -- I'm going on a trip for a few days and may not have internet access.
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Wolff Dobson <wo...@zebra.net> wrote:
> * Fantasy > Execs are kings, firebots are dragons, maxes are wizards, puffers > are puffers, snipeys are archers, miners are dwarves
> * "Away Team" > Execs are starship captains, everyone else is a redshirt of various > specialties (except puffers, who are just puffers): engineering, heavy > weapons, security, etc. Execs can be human, Gorn, Vulcan (not really > those, but various races for flavor). This would really give it the > Zap Brannigan thing I was looking for, and a better reason why > EVERYONE DIES when they join the army.
Mostly ditto. "Skinning" to me means user-contributed unit sets
(i.e., user-specified name, damage, armor, range, etc. for each unit)
with user-contributed art.
Alex
On Jun 4, 1:18 am, "G Lu" <merryl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I guess I'll throw my random opinion in on this topic... Perhaps I'm taking
> a cue from what I've learned at EA, but I would say how you portray the
> characters should really depend on who your target audience will be. For me
> personally, I think the current characters and theme are fine. The sort of
> near-future / sci-fi setting with simple, tongue-in-cheek, hapless-looking
> characters fits well with how I feel that the game isn't supposed to be
> played terribly seriously. ...But I have no idea what you should do if you
> were to, say, target social networking sites.
> Depending on how much art you want to make / commission, it might be a fun
> customization option for players to choose their team's theme -- anything
> from the current sci-fi-ish, to fantasy, to urban gangsta, to steam punk, or
> (if you want to be particularly silly) even to prehistoric. You could even
> make the themes unlockable to provide incentives for continued play. If you
> did go this route, it'd be important to keep common elements across all
> members of an archetypes -- like the exec being the only unit with two eyes
> and the max being a big, chunky guy -- to allow for easy identification.
> Anyway, just some random thoughts of mine, with the caveat that I've always
> had a soft spot for games with a tongue-in-cheek theme to emphasize that
> it's the mechanics, not the visual flair, that are the interesting bits. :P
> -- George
> P.S. -- If for some reason it becomes an issue, I may not be able to reply
> for awhile -- I'm going on a trip for a few days and may not have internet
> access.
> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Wolff Dobson <wo...@zebra.net> wrote:
> > * Fantasy
> > Execs are kings, firebots are dragons, maxes are wizards, puffers
> > are puffers, snipeys are archers, miners are dwarves
> > * "Away Team"
> > Execs are starship captains, everyone else is a redshirt of various
> > specialties (except puffers, who are just puffers): engineering, heavy
> > weapons, security, etc. Execs can be human, Gorn, Vulcan (not really
> > those, but various races for flavor). This would really give it the
> > Zap Brannigan thing I was looking for, and a better reason why
> > EVERYONE DIES when they join the army.
I'm with George - I really like the current theme, too, although I guess some of it could use a face lift (the map elements more than the units). I'd love it if you could specify more than one color for your team uniforms - main and trim or something. I really don't need it to be 3D or even fake isometric 3D.
I also think the original units were far better and more balanced than the new ones, although I can understand a desire for further complexity. I'd played probably hundreds of games with the base units, and I still was enjoying it and discovering new strategies for various maps before everybody quit.
I think a simple veterancy/experience system, maybe like that in Wesnoth, would be much more useful than having these additional unit types. Even better, make some sort of uber map-control game, like Titan, and have the individual battles be for map spaces.
> I guess I'll throw my random opinion in on this topic... Perhaps I'm taking > a cue from what I've learned at EA, but I would say how you portray the > characters should really depend on who your target audience will be. For me > personally, I think the current characters and theme are fine. The sort of > near-future / sci-fi setting with simple, tongue-in-cheek, hapless-looking > characters fits well with how I feel that the game isn't supposed to be > played terribly seriously. ...But I have no idea what you should do if you > were to, say, target social networking sites.
> Depending on how much art you want to make / commission, it might be a fun > customization option for players to choose their team's theme -- anything > from the current sci-fi-ish, to fantasy, to urban gangsta, to steam punk, or > (if you want to be particularly silly) even to prehistoric. You could even > make the themes unlockable to provide incentives for continued play. If you > did go this route, it'd be important to keep common elements across all > members of an archetypes -- like the exec being the only unit with two eyes > and the max being a big, chunky guy -- to allow for easy identification.
> Anyway, just some random thoughts of mine, with the caveat that I've always > had a soft spot for games with a tongue-in-cheek theme to emphasize that > it's the mechanics, not the visual flair, that are the interesting bits. :P
> -- George
> P.S. -- If for some reason it becomes an issue, I may not be able to reply > for awhile -- I'm going on a trip for a few days and may not have internet > access.
> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Wolff Dobson <wo...@zebra.net> wrote:
>> * Fantasy >> Execs are kings, firebots are dragons, maxes are wizards, puffers >> are puffers, snipeys are archers, miners are dwarves
>> * "Away Team" >> Execs are starship captains, everyone else is a redshirt of various >> specialties (except puffers, who are just puffers): engineering, heavy >> weapons, security, etc. Execs can be human, Gorn, Vulcan (not really >> those, but various races for flavor). This would really give it the >> Zap Brannigan thing I was looking for, and a better reason why >> EVERYONE DIES when they join the army.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Dobson d...@snood.com | Note: Please include a copy of any previous WWW: http://snood.com | correspondence if you respond to this mail ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your discussion! I should have known asking a bunch of veterans that they'd like the original art the best. :-)
The art really does need a facelift. The Guys themselves are OK, but there are numerous opportunities for animation that would brighten the whole thing up (like, say, blink cycles or proper explosions and fire), and the interface needs a real brush-up.
I was telling Adam and Josh that I was having trouble coming up with storylines containing these guys---I mean, they are fun little guys, but for a single-player adventure I was coming up blank. I think my best one was having a saucerful of LGG abducting Dana Sculley so she could be their new Executive, but it was pretty weak.
The reason why storylines are important is that it became clear to me that I was losing players because they didn't want to get ground up in the meatgrinder/Alex, but they would have been willing to co-op with their friends. Thus, I think a bunch of quest maps, especially to get people started, would be really good.
Fantasy or near-fantasy settings have the advantage of shortcutting the quest problem---of COURSE you need to go get the Magic Cat. It's the One Cat that you have to throw into Mt. Dog, or whatever.
In re: chrome, the plan is to allow players to buy/earn chrome for their team. So, emblems for flags and stat screens, headgear for your units, tattoos, etc. I'm actually working now on a new animation engine (test movie here:
) which will allow compositing. This means I could actually let players have heavily-customized Executives---glasses, hats, beards, earrings, etc. and they would still be distinctive because of their two eyes.
Multiple colors/team are coming, as well as some organizing reason for fighting beyond just quickie matchups.
Wolff
On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 10:06 AM, David McCullough Dobson
> I'm with George - I really like the current theme, too, although I guess > some of it could use a face lift (the map elements more than the units). > I'd love it if you could specify more than one color for your team > uniforms - main and trim or something. I really don't need it to be 3D or > even fake isometric 3D.
> I also think the original units were far better and more balanced than the > new ones, although I can understand a desire for further complexity. I'd > played probably hundreds of games with the base units, and I still was > enjoying it and discovering new strategies for various maps before > everybody quit.
> I think a simple veterancy/experience system, maybe like that in Wesnoth, > would be much more useful than having these additional unit types. Even > better, make some sort of uber map-control game, like Titan, and have the > individual battles be for map spaces.
> Dave
> On Tue, 3 Jun 2008, G Lu wrote:
>> Hey everyone!
>> I guess I'll throw my random opinion in on this topic... Perhaps I'm taking >> a cue from what I've learned at EA, but I would say how you portray the >> characters should really depend on who your target audience will be. For me >> personally, I think the current characters and theme are fine. The sort of >> near-future / sci-fi setting with simple, tongue-in-cheek, hapless-looking >> characters fits well with how I feel that the game isn't supposed to be >> played terribly seriously. ...But I have no idea what you should do if you >> were to, say, target social networking sites.
>> Depending on how much art you want to make / commission, it might be a fun >> customization option for players to choose their team's theme -- anything >> from the current sci-fi-ish, to fantasy, to urban gangsta, to steam punk, or >> (if you want to be particularly silly) even to prehistoric. You could even >> make the themes unlockable to provide incentives for continued play. If you >> did go this route, it'd be important to keep common elements across all >> members of an archetypes -- like the exec being the only unit with two eyes >> and the max being a big, chunky guy -- to allow for easy identification.
>> Anyway, just some random thoughts of mine, with the caveat that I've always >> had a soft spot for games with a tongue-in-cheek theme to emphasize that >> it's the mechanics, not the visual flair, that are the interesting bits. :P
>> -- George
>> P.S. -- If for some reason it becomes an issue, I may not be able to reply >> for awhile -- I'm going on a trip for a few days and may not have internet >> access.
>> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Wolff Dobson <wo...@zebra.net> wrote:
>>> * Fantasy >>> Execs are kings, firebots are dragons, maxes are wizards, puffers >>> are puffers, snipeys are archers, miners are dwarves
>>> * "Away Team" >>> Execs are starship captains, everyone else is a redshirt of various >>> specialties (except puffers, who are just puffers): engineering, heavy >>> weapons, security, etc. Execs can be human, Gorn, Vulcan (not really >>> those, but various races for flavor). This would really give it the >>> Zap Brannigan thing I was looking for, and a better reason why >>> EVERYONE DIES when they join the army.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dave Dobson d...@snood.com | Note: Please include a copy of any previous > WWW: http://snood.com | correspondence if you respond to this mail > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coop maps are a great idea! I certainly remember preferring to play Warcraft 3 on the same team with friends rather than against! You could also then introduce a lot of elements that wouldn't work for balance reasons in a free-for-all. Things like units with overpowered attacks, multi-square or multi-part bosses that require coordinated movement or simultaneous attacks to defeat...
For some reason, I think it'd be amusing to recreate a stage from a Shining Force game... In the stage, the player had to bring his units across a narrow bridge, but enemy units were manning a powerful cannon that fired every 3 or 4 turns and would deal about 75% damage to any units caught on the bridge. The trick was that there were small landings scattered along the edge of the bridge where a few units would be safe from the cannon, so the player had to sidle his units along the bridge to avoid getting nuked but also keep the reserves close enough to support the front line once the cannon was neutralized. ...It could either be utterly amusing or utterly frustrating to recreate that in LGGWG with multiple players trying to get their guys around each other and out of harm's way. :P (I'd probably lower the cannon's damage to about 30-45% to account for player collisions.)
As for a story, it might be good to start with something about the LGGs origins, especially if you intend on using it as part of a tutorial. Are they fighting other LGGs or something else and why? Is there a reason why they have the technology for war but seem ill-suited to using it? Equally, is there a reason they're so good at taking orders as long as nothing goes awry with them? Just to throw out some ideas -- Maybe their society had moved beyond using wars to resolve conflicts but then had war thrust upon them by an external force? Or maybe they got dragged into someone else's war due to some cosmic misunderstanding (a la the Spathi in Star Control 2)?
Well, just a few more random thoughts before I head off on vacation. Doing game conceptualizing is fun! ...Implementing not always as much. :P
On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Wolff Dobson <wo...@zebra.net> wrote:
> Thanks for your discussion! I should have known asking a bunch of > veterans that they'd like the original art the best. :-)
> The art really does need a facelift. The Guys themselves are OK, but > there are numerous opportunities for animation that would brighten the > whole thing up (like, say, blink cycles or proper explosions and > fire), and the interface needs a real brush-up.
> I was telling Adam and Josh that I was having trouble coming up with > storylines containing these guys---I mean, they are fun little guys, > but for a single-player adventure I was coming up blank. I think my > best one was having a saucerful of LGG abducting Dana Sculley so she > could be their new Executive, but it was pretty weak.
> The reason why storylines are important is that it became clear to me > that I was losing players because they didn't want to get ground up in > the meatgrinder/Alex, but they would have been willing to co-op with > their friends. Thus, I think a bunch of quest maps, especially to get > people started, would be really good.
> Fantasy or near-fantasy settings have the advantage of shortcutting > the quest problem---of COURSE you need to go get the Magic Cat. It's > the One Cat that you have to throw into Mt. Dog, or whatever.
> In re: chrome, the plan is to allow players to buy/earn chrome for > their team. So, emblems for flags and stat screens, headgear for your > units, tattoos, etc. I'm actually working now on a new animation > engine (test movie here:
> ) which will allow compositing. This means I could actually let > players have heavily-customized Executives---glasses, hats, beards, > earrings, etc. and they would still be distinctive because of their > two eyes.
> Multiple colors/team are coming, as well as some organizing reason for > fighting beyond just quickie matchups.
> Wolff
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 10:06 AM, David McCullough Dobson > <d...@snood.pair.com> wrote:
> > I'm with George - I really like the current theme, too, although I guess > > some of it could use a face lift (the map elements more than the units). > > I'd love it if you could specify more than one color for your team > > uniforms - main and trim or something. I really don't need it to be 3D > or > > even fake isometric 3D.
> > I also think the original units were far better and more balanced than > the > > new ones, although I can understand a desire for further complexity. I'd > > played probably hundreds of games with the base units, and I still was > > enjoying it and discovering new strategies for various maps before > > everybody quit.
> > I think a simple veterancy/experience system, maybe like that in Wesnoth, > > would be much more useful than having these additional unit types. Even > > better, make some sort of uber map-control game, like Titan, and have the > > individual battles be for map spaces.
> > Dave
> > On Tue, 3 Jun 2008, G Lu wrote:
> >> Hey everyone!
> >> I guess I'll throw my random opinion in on this topic... Perhaps I'm > taking > >> a cue from what I've learned at EA, but I would say how you portray the > >> characters should really depend on who your target audience will be. > For me > >> personally, I think the current characters and theme are fine. The sort > of > >> near-future / sci-fi setting with simple, tongue-in-cheek, > hapless-looking > >> characters fits well with how I feel that the game isn't supposed to be > >> played terribly seriously. ...But I have no idea what you should do if > you > >> were to, say, target social networking sites.
> >> Depending on how much art you want to make / commission, it might be a > fun > >> customization option for players to choose their team's theme -- > anything > >> from the current sci-fi-ish, to fantasy, to urban gangsta, to steam > punk, or > >> (if you want to be particularly silly) even to prehistoric. You could > even > >> make the themes unlockable to provide incentives for continued play. If > you > >> did go this route, it'd be important to keep common elements across all > >> members of an archetypes -- like the exec being the only unit with two > eyes > >> and the max being a big, chunky guy -- to allow for easy identification.
> >> Anyway, just some random thoughts of mine, with the caveat that I've > always > >> had a soft spot for games with a tongue-in-cheek theme to emphasize that > >> it's the mechanics, not the visual flair, that are the interesting bits. > :P
> >> -- George
> >> P.S. -- If for some reason it becomes an issue, I may not be able to > reply > >> for awhile -- I'm going on a trip for a few days and may not have > internet > >> access.
> >> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Wolff Dobson <wo...@zebra.net> wrote:
> >>> * Fantasy > >>> Execs are kings, firebots are dragons, maxes are wizards, puffers > >>> are puffers, snipeys are archers, miners are dwarves
> >>> * "Away Team" > >>> Execs are starship captains, everyone else is a redshirt of various > >>> specialties (except puffers, who are just puffers): engineering, heavy > >>> weapons, security, etc. Execs can be human, Gorn, Vulcan (not really > >>> those, but various races for flavor). This would really give it the > >>> Zap Brannigan thing I was looking for, and a better reason why > >>> EVERYONE DIES when they join the army.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Dave Dobson d...@snood.com | Note: Please include a copy of any > previous > > WWW: http://snood.com | correspondence if you respond to this > mail
> > On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 10:06 AM, David McCullough Dobson
> > <d...@snood.pair.com> wrote:
> > > I also think the original units were far better and more balanced than
> > the
> > > new ones,
Agreed, but part of this is because the original units were tweaked
for years, and the new ones have only been around a few months (of
played game time). How many iterations did it take to decide on the
right range and damage for Snipeys? To decide on Puffer HP/damage/
movement? Whether Maxes did 1 or 1-2 damage? And so on. Any new
unit will suffer by comparison until it's been through the playtesting
wringer.
> > > Even
> > > better, make some sort of uber map-control game, like Titan, and have the
> > > individual battles be for map spaces.
Any time someone mentions Titan, I get the shivers. WOoooooh!
Ideally it would have a storyline** attached to the big board, but
just having a big board to win would be enough for me.
** the surface of this planet in the LGG system has been scorched, and
the LGG are fighting each other initially to prevent a mine shaft gap,
and perhaps later to collect items that will allow them to get back up
onto the surface and to rescuing space ships.
|
