Stack of hi-res dSLR images of south lunar pole, at end of August 11, 2009, window for LCROSS crater illumination.

[Shore Lab]

Many thanks for the posted information, all.

I just posted a highly cropped stack of hi-res image of south lunar
pole, taken at the end of the August 11, 2009 window for LCROSS Oct 9
impact lighting, based on the table posted by Rick Baldridge
(thanks). Large craters Curtius and Moretus are in middle of this
view. Feel free to label likely targets and reference craters, if
desired.

Foggy conditions here did not quite stop me, though it slowed down me
and my exposures. Info below is in the initial, standard format.

File name of posted image : CKitting_20090811120StackS.jpg
Name of observer : Dr. Christopher Kitting, Cal State U. East Bay,
Email address of observer : chris....@csueastbay.edu
Aperture of telescope : 130 mm (Takahashi triplet ortho apo
refractor)
Focal length of telescope : 1000mm (plus Takahashi varextender at
~2.3x).

Type of camera used : Nikon D300 DSLR (12.3 MP native)
Camera detector dimensions 16mm x 24mm
Image capture software: Photoshop CS4 RAW converter to 25MP,
cropped drastically to ~1 MP from RAW 25 (!) MP.
Exposure information : ~1 fps, 1/4 second at ISO 640, through FOG.
Imaging at ~2300mm focal length, f/18. COLOR here (no chromatic
aberration).
Sharpest 14 frames (of 21) stacked via “Keith’s Image Stacker” Mac
software.

(~0.25 arcsec per pixel after 2x interpolation to 25MP)
Rather mild Laplacian sharpening with Keith’s Image Stacking
software.

Time and date of exposure : 1120, on August 11, 2009 (UT)
(at end of window of similar south polar appearance for recent LCROSS
impact prediction of Oct 9). South is UP.
Observatory location: Hayward Hills, CA , 
East of San Francisco Bay.
37° 38' 48.4" N Latitude 
 122° 02' 09.4" W Longitude
Elevation: 180 m above sea level. Good atmospheric stability, in
fog. Moon ~70 degrees up.

Direct link to this posted image is (long URL):
http://01227941410742638900-a-g.googlegroups.com/web/CKitting_20090811120StackS.tif?hl=en&gda=rZ2fUFAAAACwPjh7SItssvxptLN2TxYMWlnFA11wzNrWowSNcC1fj6sKitRK1ryiwHj-qh58M0EsiI6xpOrp4jaOy5Ig5jvjbcVT3VtYGKLco-_l-8AzjQ&gsc=pRJgUQsAAABeS4VcirV8rBM_ax5b38hC

[Paul Mortfield]

Hi Chris,
for long URL's, you might want to use the TinyURL tool at www.tinyurl.com
you can then copy the URL it generates into your msg and it won't get
chopped, truncated, etc
Glad you're out there getting images with your setup.
...paul.

[Jim Mosher]

Chris,

That's a nice effort. It shows a considerably stronger libration in
latitude, but similar lighting, to that which will be observed at the
currently announced impact time of 2009 Oct 09 11:30 UT.

I'm attaching a comparison of your image with that taken by Kurt
Fisher 2 hours earlier:

http://groups.google.com/group/lcross_observation/msg/cf5d37b9287da695

and one taken by Mario Weigand last October (cropped from a full disk mosaic):

http://www.skytrip.de/monvid241.htm

Unlike most of what I post, these have not been processed with LTVT,
but rather Mario's image has simply been rotated 4.1° clockwise to
make the Moon's rotation axis vertical, and the other two photos have
been enlarged to the same scale (a 7349 pixel diameter lunar disk) and
rotated to match. In addition Kurt's image has also been stretched by
a factor of 4/3 in the direction perpendicular to what appear to be
video scan lines, although I don't know if that is the correct factor.

Each image is labeled with the longitude/latitude of the Sub-observer
("SO") and Sub-solar ("SS") points. The former two numbers are
commonly referred to as the "librations", while the commonly used
"colongitude" of the Sun is (90° - longitude of SS point).

That information is based on the following data:

Fisher image: 2009 Aug 11 09:37 UT from (-111.867°, +40.767°)
Kitting image: 2009 Aug 11 11:20 UT from (-122.03594°, +37.64678°)
Weigand image: 2008 Oct 20 03:30 UT from (+8.7°, +50.1°)

For comparison, from the IRTF facility in Hawaii (-155.47220°,
19.82612°) at the impact time cited above, observers will see SO =
-2.16°/-3.69° and SS = -68.2°/-1.51°.

The images are registered on Malapert Alpha (the bright peak
bordering, on the left, the top of the large V-shaped indentation on
the limb), have the differences in libration about their point are
quite evident. For example, the large crater under the "-3.46° SS"
label in Mario's image (Simpelius) is shifted to the extreme upper
right in the two images above it. Likewise the limb area to the south
of Malapert Alpha is noticeably stretched in the first two views
relative to its appearance in the third; and undoubtedly features not
visible in the latter have rotated into view in the former.

Looking at the numbers, Mario's image is closest to the expected
impact view in terms of both solar latitude and libration in latitude,
but the libration in longitude will be skewed a bit towards that show
in the two recent photos.

In comparing the images, the two main surprises to me were: (1) that
your version shows faint limb detail that was visible to Kurt's setup
only using his "hyper-exposure" technique; and (2) that Mario's image,
with the Sun 1° higher, shows so little additional sunlit detail
inside the "hole" area. I had formerly imagined that Mario's image
showed most of the detail that was likely to be visible, but this
seems to be saying that (as in Kurt's case) a deeper exposure (or a
different processing routine) might have brought out more.

The next opportunity to see the Moon with the Sun at a longitude of
-68.2° (matching the impact lighting) will be on 2009 Sep 09 at 23:05
UT. The Sun's latitude will be -1.17°, considerably closer to the
-1.51° expected on impact night than were the August observations. The
Moon will not be visible from the United States at that time, however
it could be imaged from Europe, Africa and much of Asia (but not the
Far East). Perhaps some of the excellent Russian astrophotographers
could be encouraged to take a look. From Kiev at that hour the Moon
will be seen with SO = -5.06°/-5.60°. That would be a good supplement
to the Weigand image.

It would also, if possible, be helpful for imagers in that part of the
world to post high resolution photos taken on September 7 and 8. They
would serve as a useful guide to this part of the Moon for observers
in the other half of the world who might be setting up for the October
9 impact, and trying to locate the impact site, on October 7 and 8.

-- Jim

P.S. to Chris:

Labeling at the photos seems premature, at least for potential impact
observers, until the impact target has been announced.

--

P.S. to the group moderators:

It was long ago announced that a new NASA-hosted website was being set
up ("as we speak") to accommodate and organize the flood of amateur
images expected leading up to and during the impact event. With less
than seven weeks to impact, I wonder if any progress has been made on
the development of the new site?

Random postings about LCROSS-related imaging opportunities made by
members of this group on various internet forums have elicited very
little reaction. A call for pre-impact amateur images of the Moon's
south pole from Africa, Asia and Europe on 2009 Sep 09 at 23:05 UT, if
desired by the LCROSS scientists, would seem much more effective, and
the response better organized and more accessible if announced from,
and the results submitted to, such an official NASA site.

--

[cano...@yahoo.com]

Chris, That's the general idea. I recommend sticking another 30mm to
50mm extender in between your camera and the scope to bump up the
focal ratio to f/30. Then practice some more. With the Takahashi and
a 12Mb pixel camera, you've got the gear. Go push your gear's limits.
What's your mount? - Kurt

On Aug 16, 1:25 pm, Shore Lab <chris.kitt...@csueastbay.edu> wrote:
> Many thanks for the posted information, all.
>
> I just posted a highly cropped stack of hi-res image of south lunar
> pole, taken at the end of the August 11, 2009 window for LCROSS Oct 9
> impact lighting, based on the table posted by Rick Baldridge

> (thanks).  . . . .

[Derek C Breit]

"Where are the stars??"

Still no one is practicing imaging the stars near the bright limb..

Derek
www.poyntsource.com/New/index.htm

[cano...@yahoo.com]

P.S. to Chris -

Also suggset that you work on your focusing. Do you have a Hartmann
mask and motorized focuser? - Clear Skies, Kurt

> > (thanks).  . . . .- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[cano...@yahoo.com]

On Aug 17, 12:25 pm, Jim Mosher <jimmos...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip all... but>

> Random postings about LCROSS-related imaging opportunities made by
> members of this group on various internet forums have elicited very
> little reaction. A call for pre-impact amateur images of the Moon's
> south pole from Africa, Asia and Europe on 2009 Sep 09 at 23:05 UT, if
> desired by the LCROSS scientists, would seem much more effective, and
> the response better organized and more accessible if announced from,
> and the results submitted to, such an official NASA site.

Jim, Another option would be to approach the S&T staff member on the
list work up an S&T website announced competition for September 9. -
Clear Skies, Kurt

[Jim Mosher]

On Aug 18, 2:48 pm, "canopu...@yahoo.com" <canopu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Jim,  Another option would be to approach the S&T staff member on the
> list work up an S&T website announced competition for September 9. -
> Clear Skies, Kurt

Yes that sounds like a good idea, although I am not sure what, if any,
images the LCROSS scientists might be interested in collecting.

In my opinion, 2009 Sep 09 at 23:05 UT is the upcoming time at which
the south polar lighting will most nearly match that to be observed
on 2009 Oct 09 at 11:30 UT (coinciding in colongitude, but not quite
exactly in latitude); but others have presented reasons for thinking a
slightly different date and time (2009 Oct 10 at 07:04 UT) would be
better. There might also might be some interest in photographing the
Moon when the south pole is tipped towards Earth by the same amount as
it will be on October 9th, albeit with different lighting. Exactly
when that would be depends on the observer's location. For example,
from the IRTF site in Hawaii, the Moon could be observed on 2009 Sep
12 at 15:00 UT with a libration in latitude of -3.57° -- quite close
to the -3.69° they will be seeing at the currently announced impact
time.

I suspect the /Sky and Telescope/ webmasters would be much more
interested in sponsoring a LCROSS-related imaging contest if the call
came from the LCROSS team, rather than from us. So perhaps thats
something for them to pursue. It might drum up interest in the event
the month before impact. A contest to find old images matching the
expected conditions at the moment of impact even more closely than is
possible in September might also be of interest.

-- Jim

[Véronique Etienne]

I'm afrait I'm a bit late and not an expert... What is this story with
stars ?
Should people image stars near the bright limb in order to make the
appropriate settings ? What kind of stars (what magnitude) ?
Thanks!
Clear skies
Veronique

On Aug 18, 4:19 am, "Derek C Breit" <breit_id...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>  "Where are thestars??"

[Derek C Breit]

I'm afraid I'm a bit late and not an expert... What is this story with stars

? Should people image stars near the bright limb in order to make the
appropriate settings ? What kind of stars (what magnitude) ? Thanks! Clear
skies Veronique

--------------------------------------------------------

Hello Veronique,

***Should people image stars near the bright limb in order to make the
appropriate settings ?***

Yes..

***What kind of stars (what magnitude) ?***

As deep as you can..

Rumor has it the ejecta plume will be (someone correct me) mag 5 or 6.. But
it will be an extended object and not a point source. My point has been that
to have any hope of seeing this anywhere near a sunlight feature, people
should experiment with just how dim of a star they can see / image / video
near a brightly sunlit feature near the Southern Cusp.. I am certainly not
an imager, but over exposure would be the name of the game in that if you
are not prepared for what it takes to image stars near the bright limb, you
might be shocked come event time. Therefore practicing beforehand is a good
idea.

Lunar Occultations are perfect for this. A lunar graze is ideal.

Lunar occultations and Lunar graze recorded to video.. That's what I do and
it should be well suited for recording the plume, assuming the predictions
for size and brightness of the ejecta curtain are "in the ball park".

I believe if you have never tried this, you might (possibly) be in for a big
shock come crunch time.. I could be mistaken, but practice never hurt and
lack of practice has done in many..

Here is what a magnitude 6.6 graze looks like..
This is 24 MB and you should raise the brightness as needed to "check it
out"
http://www.poyntsource.com/tmp/April_25th_2007_Graze.mpg

Derek

[Véronique Etienne]

Hi Derek,
Many thanks for explaining !
Veronique

2009/8/24 Derek C Breit <breit...@hotmail.com>

--
Veronique Etienne
06 83 89 55 24
veronique...@gmail.com  
veroniqu...@laposte.net