beyond.io lasersaur build v12.11

[Kevin]

Hi all,

We're really excited to have started the building process (v12.11) but as we'll probably be running into some problems/question we'll keep our personal log here.

Suggestions:

For future reference it might be a good idea to adjust the overal dimensions on the system overview page as we build a solid wooden table based on those (1700x1080x350mm) to find out our table was too short for v12.11, major bummer!

First questions:

• Frame table: as we installed the long beams from back to front with the dimensions from the building instructions, it turned out we had a spare? 4 long beams between the shorter beams, but the BOM lists 5.

• Frame outer: in 12.11 there are 4 small 190mm beams (2x rear middle top, bottom, 2x laser psu mount), is the PSU still located on the same spot as 12.08 (back left)? So we just add one of the 190mm beams on the left side of the one in the middle?

Thanks,

Kevin

[Stefan Hechenberger]

> Suggestions:
> For future reference it might be a good idea to adjust the overal
> dimensions on the system overview page as we build a solid wooden table
> based on those (1700x1080x350mm) to find out our table was too short for
> v12.11, major bummer!

Updated! Sorry about that. We failed to update this to the v12.11.

> • Frame table: as we installed the long beams from back to front with
> the dimensions from the building instructions, it turned out we had a
> spare? 4 long beams between the shorter beams, but the BOM lists 5.

Correct, you can see all the spare parts in the BOM listed under the
"extra" section.

> • Frame outer: in 12.11 there are 4 small 190mm beams (2x rear middle
> top, bottom, 2x laser psu mount), is the PSU still located on the same
> spot as 12.08 (back left)? So we just add one of the 190mm beams on the
> left side of the one in the middle?

That works too. The only reason not to do this, it gives you a little
more space between electronics and laser PSU. For example we use the
middle extrusion to mount the e-valve.

[Kevin]

Thx Stefan!

• We fixed the table already, perfect fit now!

• I overlooked the profile in the extras as I was looking for a black one, my mistake.

• We added the extra profile for the PSU as you suggested.

One of the last parts on our order list is the air valve, will this one suffice?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Inline-Magnetventil-IMV604-24-V-AC-JG-6mm-/200880357981?pt=Pneumatik&hash=item2ec567025d#ht_2385wt_1056

Our replacement extrusions from Misumi are hopefully arriving next week (some of the gantry ones got badly dented during transport) so we'll be able to continue our puzzling!

Thanks,

Kevin

[Stefan Hechenberger]

Looks fine.

If you want to be sure get an Airtec MS 20-310-24. That's what we use
and works flawless.

https://www.landefeld.de/artikel/en/32-way-solenoid-valve-m-5-closed-nc-24-v-/MS+20310+24V%3d



--
Stefan Hechenberger
studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

[Kevin]

As our build is progressing fast we're looking into getting the necessary accessories:

• air exhaust

• work surface

Does anyone have european suppliers for any of these? We're having a pretty hard time finding decently priced ones.

Thanks,

Kevin

[Stefan Hechenberger]

> air exhaust

We use the following supplier. The website is in German but there is a
Google Translate feature on the right that may help:

http://www.maschinengrosshandel.net/

- FAN1000 Radialventilator
- D= 100 mm PULPUR� Absaugschlauch Flexschlauch
- D=100 mm Schlauchschelle
- 4-Eck/Rund Adapter K D=100 mm

We don't have a filter yet as we don't cut a lot of plastic. The basic
idea is that you build a box which you connect in line with the exhaust
tubing. In it you slide various pre-filters and an active carbon filter.


> work surface

From Plascore.de you can get honeycombs. This one is probably most
suitable: PCGA-XR1-2.5-1/2-P-3003
I quoted it a while ago and it's about EUR 130 for 4x 48x24 (smallest
amount they sell). We are currently just in the process of getting some
so I will know more about plascore soon.

Alternatively you can go to the next hardware store and get thin metal
angles (typically used in drywall construction) and mount them on the
bed frame.

--
Stefan Hechenberger
studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

On 01/30/2013 05:21 PM, Kevin wrote:
> As our build is progressing fast we're looking into getting the
> necessary accessories:

> � air exhaust
> � work surface

>
> Does anyone have european suppliers for any of these? We're having a
> pretty hard time finding decently priced ones.
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin
>
> On Friday, January 25, 2013 1:32:40 PM UTC+1, stefanix wrote:
>
>
> Looks fine.
>
> If you want to be sure get an Airtec MS 20-310-24. That's what we use
> and works flawless.
>
> https://www.landefeld.de/artikel/en/32-way-solenoid-valve-m-5-closed-nc-24-v-/MS+20310+24V%3d
> <https://www.landefeld.de/artikel/en/32-way-solenoid-valve-m-5-closed-nc-24-v-/MS+20310+24V%3d>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Stefan Hechenberger

> studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com <http://labs.nortd.com>
> resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
> project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>

>
> On 01/25/2013 12:12 AM, Kevin wrote:
> > Thx Stefan!
> >

> > � We fixed the table already, perfect fit now!
> > � I overlooked the profile in the extras as I was looking for a
> black
> > one, my mistake.
> > � We added the extra profile for the PSU as you suggested.

> > > � Frame table: as we installed the long beams from back to

> front
> > with
> > > the dimensions from the building instructions, it turned
> out we
> > had a
> > > spare? 4 long beams between the shorter beams, but the BOM
> lists 5.
> >
> > Correct, you can see all the spare parts in the BOM listed
> under the
> > "extra" section.
> >

> > > � Frame outer: in 12.11 there are 4 small 190mm beams (2x

> rear
> > middle
> > > top, bottom, 2x laser psu mount), is the PSU still located
> on the
> > same
> > > spot as 12.08 (back left)? So we just add one of the 190mm
> beams
> > on the
> > > left side of the one in the middle?
> >
> > That works too. The only reason not to do this, it gives you
> a little
> > more space between electronics and laser PSU. For example we
> use the
> > middle extrusion to mount the e-valve.
> >
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "lasersaur" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>

[Kevin]

Hey Stefan,

Thanks for the intel!

I found a pretty cheap deal in the Netherlands, going to check it out this week & will post the info if it proves to do the trick.

Also requested a quote from Plascore.

Hope to get our driveboard in the mail tomorrow cus we got some soldering to do! ;)

[Steve Baker]

For the bed, we bought an aluminium "eggcrate" with about a 1cm spacing
from the eBay supplier mentioned in the lasersaur manual. It works great
and cost $46 + $20 shipping.

It's sold as a light diffuser - which might help you find a european
source in Google searches.

I think it's important to have a thin metal edge presented to the laser so
that you minimize the amount of reflected laser light that can damage the
underside of your material.

-- Steve

Stefan Hechenberger wrote:
>
> > air exhaust
>
> We use the following supplier. The website is in German but there is a
> Google Translate feature on the right that may help:
>
> http://www.maschinengrosshandel.net/
>
> - FAN1000 Radialventilator

> - D= 100 mm PULPUR® Absaugschlauch Flexschlauch

> - D=100 mm Schlauchschelle
> - 4-Eck/Rund Adapter K D=100 mm
>
> We don't have a filter yet as we don't cut a lot of plastic. The basic
> idea is that you build a box which you connect in line with the exhaust
> tubing. In it you slide various pre-filters and an active carbon filter.
>
>
> > work surface
>
> From Plascore.de you can get honeycombs. This one is probably most
> suitable: PCGA-XR1-2.5-1/2-P-3003
> I quoted it a while ago and it's about EUR 130 for 4x 48x24 (smallest
> amount they sell). We are currently just in the process of getting some
> so I will know more about plascore soon.
>
> Alternatively you can go to the next hardware store and get thin metal
> angles (typically used in drywall construction) and mount them on the
> bed frame.
>
>
> --
> Stefan Hechenberger
> studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
> resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
> project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
>
> On 01/30/2013 05:21 PM, Kevin wrote:
>> As our build is progressing fast we're looking into getting the
>> necessary accessories:

>> • air exhaust
>> • work surface

>>
>> Does anyone have european suppliers for any of these? We're having a
>> pretty hard time finding decently priced ones.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kevin
>>
>> On Friday, January 25, 2013 1:32:40 PM UTC+1, stefanix wrote:
>>
>>
>> Looks fine.
>>
>> If you want to be sure get an Airtec MS 20-310-24. That's what we
>> use
>> and works flawless.
>>
>> https://www.landefeld.de/artikel/en/32-way-solenoid-valve-m-5-closed-nc-24-v-/MS+20310+24V%3d
>> <https://www.landefeld.de/artikel/en/32-way-solenoid-valve-m-5-closed-nc-24-v-/MS+20310+24V%3d>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stefan Hechenberger
>> studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com <http://labs.nortd.com>
>> resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
>> project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
>> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>
>>
>> On 01/25/2013 12:12 AM, Kevin wrote:
>> > Thx Stefan!
>> >

>> > • We fixed the table already, perfect fit now!
>> > • I overlooked the profile in the extras as I was looking for a
>> black
>> > one, my mistake.
>> > • We added the extra profile for the PSU as you suggested.

>> > > • Frame table: as we installed the long beams from back to

>> front
>> > with
>> > > the dimensions from the building instructions, it turned
>> out we
>> > had a
>> > > spare? 4 long beams between the shorter beams, but the BOM
>> lists 5.
>> >
>> > Correct, you can see all the spare parts in the BOM listed
>> under the
>> > "extra" section.
>> >

>> > > • Frame outer: in 12.11 there are 4 small 190mm beams (2x

-- Steve

[Kevin]

Has there been any conclusion on where to preferably attach the exhaust?

We're thinking on attaching inlet air fans on the left of the machine, blowing straight onto the (0,0) location of the work surface and having the outlet on the bottom right side, somewhere around the center.

Our fan should have plenty enough power (max around 1500m3/h).

Thanks!

[Steve Baker]

> Has there been any conclusion on where to preferably attach the exhaust?

I wouldn't say "conclusion".

When I asked this question, various people suggested attaching the exhaust
on either the left or beneath. We initially took that advice and attached
ours on the left - but had much better results when we moved it over to
the right.

I believe the arguments are as follows:

* LEFT: Since the left side is where the laser has most power and where
the origin is, most people do their work there - so that's the place to
have the best smoke extraction.

* BELOW: This pulls smoke through the kerf as you cut - and pulls smoke
outwards away from the cutting head around the edges of the workpiece.

* RIGHT: Pulling the smoke away to the right gets it away from the optical
path where it can contaminate mirrors and block laser light.

* FRONT, BACK and TOP are all bad for obvious mechanical reasons.

Obviously LEFT is bad for all the reasons that RIGHT is good - and
vice-versa.

BELOW is inconvenient to engineer - and may not be great if you do a lot
of etching and less cutting, or if you need to do multi-pass cutting where
there is no kerf to suck the smoke down through. I also don't buy the
"sucking the smoke through the kerf" argument when people are using sheets
of material that are significantly smaller than the bed size - there is
high air resistance to pull air through the kerf - and almost zero to
pulling air outwards around the workpiece. IMHO, it's better to buy (at
least) an $80 airbrush compressor and use that to do "air assist" -
pushing the smoke through the kerf directly where possible.

For myself, we do most of our cutting in 2'x4' sheets of material - so the
"leftist" argument that "most cutting happens on the left" simply doesn't
apply to us - and without that argument, LEFT has no benefits over RIGHT.

My best argument for extracting smoke on the right is that we know that
there is always less laser power while cutting on the right side of the
bed - because it has the longest laser path. We need all the energy we
can get while cutting on the right side of the bed - so that's the time
when it's most critical to keep smoke out of the path of the laser. When
the laser is on the left side, our "rightist" approach doesn't have such
good extraction - but there is plenty of laser power available there and
the laser path is short so smoke in the path of the laser is much less
critical.

Hence, I decided to switch sides from left extraction to right - and the
machine is working MUCH better since we did that.

My advice: If you plan to use the full bed of the machine - right is right!

> We're thinking on attaching inlet air fans on the left of the machine,
> blowing straight onto the (0,0) location of the work surface and having
> the outlet on the bottom right side, somewhere around the center.
> Our fan should have plenty enough power (max around 1500m3/h).

Wait...wait...you're planning to use fans to blow air INTO the machine
rather than sucking it OUT?

Yikes! No, no, nooooo!

That seems like a very bad idea. You'll have positive pressure inside the
machine - that means that you'll tend to blow smoke out of every crack and
orifice in the case - your work area is going to fill with smoke! You'll
have no control over where the smoke goes inside the machine. Instead of
sucking the lid shut - you'll tend to blow it open. The lid has a large
area and it's very light - and the gas struts balance out what weight
there is. If the lid lifts during cutting, the laser will cut out.

No, no, no! If there is anything that leftists, rightists and downists
all agree on, it's that you have to use the fans to pull the air OUT of
the case. That way you have negative pressure inside...smoke doesn't
escape anywhere other than the place you choose and the lid is kept shut
(in part) by the ambient air pressure pushing down on it.

In quaint imperial units, your 1500m3/h fan is 880cfm...yeah - that's
pretty good. We only have a 400cfm fan and it's *just* adequate - we'd
like more ventilation to cut down on the amount of cleaning of lenses,
polycarbonate windows and bearings, but we don't like the noise that comes
with bigger fans.

> Thanks!

No problem!

-- Steve

-- Steve

[Stefan Hechenberger]

We have actually changed the recommendation in the manual after the last
discussion. Sucking out on the right side is probably the best solution.
We currently have our fan connected to the bottom rear and it works
sufficient too (1000 m3/h).

One thing that became very apparent is that inlet placement is important
too. With the door closed the exhaust sucks from all sides wherever air
can get in. When I open the door just a crack it creates a draft from
front to back.

So, if you have inlets on the left and the exhaust on the right you will
also have a nice draft on the left, no need to help with extra fans.

That being said, with 1500m3/h not much optimizing is necessary.

--
Stefan Hechenberger
studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

On 01/31/2013 01:10 PM, Kevin wrote:
> Has there been any conclusion on where to preferably attach the exhaust?
> We're thinking on attaching inlet air fans on the left of the machine,
> blowing straight onto the (0,0) location of the work surface and having
> the outlet on the bottom right side, somewhere around the center.
> Our fan should have plenty enough power (max around 1500m3/h).
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:38:29 PM UTC+1, Kevin wrote:
>
> Hey Stefan,
>
> Thanks for the intel!
>
> I found a pretty cheap deal in the Netherlands, going to check it
> out this week & will post the info if it proves to do the trick.
> Also requested a quote from Plascore.
>
> Hope to get our driveboard in the mail tomorrow cus we got some
> soldering to do! ;)
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:02:54 PM UTC+1, stefanix wrote:
>
>
> > air exhaust
>
> We use the following supplier. The website is in German but
> there is a
> Google Translate feature on the right that may help:
>
> http://www.maschinengrosshandel.net/
> <http://www.maschinengrosshandel.net/>
>
> - FAN1000 Radialventilator

> - D= 100 mm PULPUR� Absaugschlauch Flexschlauch

> - D=100 mm Schlauchschelle
> - 4-Eck/Rund Adapter K D=100 mm
>
> We don't have a filter yet as we don't cut a lot of plastic. The
> basic
> idea is that you build a box which you connect in line with the
> exhaust
> tubing. In it you slide various pre-filters and an active carbon
> filter.
>
>
> > work surface
>
> From Plascore.de you can get honeycombs. This one is probably
> most
> suitable: PCGA-XR1-2.5-1/2-P-3003
> I quoted it a while ago and it's about EUR 130 for 4x 48x24
> (smallest
> amount they sell). We are currently just in the process of
> getting some
> so I will know more about plascore soon.
>
> Alternatively you can go to the next hardware store and get thin
> metal
> angles (typically used in drywall construction) and mount them
> on the
> bed frame.
>
>
> --
> Stefan Hechenberger

> studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com <http://labs.nortd.com>
> resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
> project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>
>

> On 01/30/2013 05:21 PM, Kevin wrote:
> > As our build is progressing fast we're looking into getting the
> > necessary accessories:

> > � air exhaust
> > � work surface

> >
> > Does anyone have european suppliers for any of these? We're
> having a
> > pretty hard time finding decently priced ones.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kevin
> >
> > On Friday, January 25, 2013 1:32:40 PM UTC+1, stefanix wrote:
> >
> >
> > Looks fine.
> >
> > If you want to be sure get an Airtec MS 20-310-24. That's
> what we use
> > and works flawless.
> >
> >
> https://www.landefeld.de/artikel/en/32-way-solenoid-valve-m-5-closed-nc-24-v-/MS+20310+24V%3d
> <https://www.landefeld.de/artikel/en/32-way-solenoid-valve-m-5-closed-nc-24-v-/MS+20310+24V%3d>
>
> >
> <https://www.landefeld.de/artikel/en/32-way-solenoid-valve-m-5-closed-nc-24-v-/MS+20310+24V%3d
> <https://www.landefeld.de/artikel/en/32-way-solenoid-valve-m-5-closed-nc-24-v-/MS+20310+24V%3d>>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Stefan Hechenberger
> > studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com

> <http://labs.nortd.com> <http://labs.nortd.com>

> > resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
> <http://fffff.at>
> > project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>

> > <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>>
> >
> > On 01/25/2013 12:12 AM, Kevin wrote:
> > > Thx Stefan!
> > >

> > > � We fixed the table already, perfect fit now!
> > > � I overlooked the profile in the extras as I was

> looking for a
> > black
> > > one, my mistake.

> > > � We added the extra profile for the PSU as you

> > > > � Frame table: as we installed the long beams

> from back to
> > front
> > > with
> > > > the dimensions from the building instructions,
> it turned
> > out we
> > > had a
> > > > spare? 4 long beams between the shorter beams,
> but the BOM
> > lists 5.
> > >
> > > Correct, you can see all the spare parts in the
> BOM listed
> > under the
> > > "extra" section.
> > >

> > > > � Frame outer: in 12.11 there are 4 small

> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>.

[Kevin]

Righty, thanks Steve & Stefan for the elaborate explanation!

Regarding the inlets on the left, I suppose a few drilled holes in the side panel will do the trick?

Thanks again,

Kevin

>         - D= 100 mm PULPUR� Absaugschlauch Flexschlauch

>          > � air exhaust
>          > � work surface

>          >      > � We fixed the table already, perfect fit now!
>          >      > � I overlooked the profile in the extras as I was

>         looking for a
>          >     black
>          >      > one, my mistake.

>          >      > � We added the extra profile for the PSU as you

>          >      >      > � Frame table: as we installed the long beams

>         from back to
>          >     front
>          >      >     with
>          >      >      > the dimensions from the building instructions,
>         it turned
>          >     out we
>          >      >     had a
>          >      >      > spare? 4 long beams between the shorter beams,
>         but the BOM
>          >     lists 5.
>          >      >
>          >      >     Correct, you can see all the spare parts in the
>         BOM listed
>          >     under the
>          >      >     "extra" section.
>          >      >

>          >      >      > � Frame outer: in 12.11 there are 4 small

[Stefan Hechenberger]

You may want to prevent people from looking at the laser through the holes.

One thing I wanted to try but havent yet ... get some PVC piping and
build a flat, wide U-shape (610mm wide). The lower part of the U align
with the left edge of the cutting table. Drill many outlet holes into it
(or route a long slit into it). The tips of the U attach to openings of
the side panel. Maybe repeat on the outlet side.

--
Stefan Hechenberger
studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

On 01/31/2013 06:13 PM, Kevin wrote:
> Righty, thanks Steve & Stefan for the elaborate explanation!
>
> Regarding the inlets on the left, I suppose a few drilled holes in the
> side panel will do the trick?
>
> Thanks again,
> Kevin
>
> On Thursday, January 31, 2013 6:04:40 PM UTC+1, stefanix wrote:
>
>
> We have actually changed the recommendation in the manual after the
> last
> discussion. Sucking out on the right side is probably the best
> solution.
> We currently have our fan connected to the bottom rear and it works
> sufficient too (1000 m3/h).
>
> One thing that became very apparent is that inlet placement is
> important
> too. With the door closed the exhaust sucks from all sides wherever air
> can get in. When I open the door just a crack it creates a draft from
> front to back.
>
> So, if you have inlets on the left and the exhaust on the right you
> will
> also have a nice draft on the left, no need to help with extra fans.
>
> That being said, with 1500m3/h not much optimizing is necessary.
>
> --
> Stefan Hechenberger

> studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com <http://labs.nortd.com>
> resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
> project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>
>

> > - D= 100 mm PULPUR� Absaugschlauch Flexschlauch

> <http://labs.nortd.com> <http://labs.nortd.com>
> > resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
> <http://fffff.at>
> > project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>
> > <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>>
> >

> > On 01/30/2013 05:21 PM, Kevin wrote:
> > > As our build is progressing fast we're looking into
> getting the
> > > necessary accessories:

> > > � air exhaust
> > > � work surface

> > > > � We fixed the table already, perfect fit now!
> > > > � I overlooked the profile in the extras as I

> was
> > looking for a
> > > black
> > > > one, my mistake.

> > > > � We added the extra profile for the PSU as you

> > > > > � Frame table: as we installed the

> long beams
> > from back to
> > > front
> > > > with
> > > > > the dimensions from the building
> instructions,
> > it turned
> > > out we
> > > > had a
> > > > > spare? 4 long beams between the shorter
> beams,
> > but the BOM
> > > lists 5.
> > > >
> > > > Correct, you can see all the spare parts in
> the
> > BOM listed
> > > under the
> > > > "extra" section.
> > > >

> > > > > � Frame outer: in 12.11 there are 4 small

> > an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

[Ray Debs]

Hello,

I had been holding off until I could take pics, but since this discussion is hot right now, I'll describe how I am handling exhaust.
I went through the same thought experiment about where would be the best place to extract fumes. I decided the lower right side because it would pull fresh air over the optics path and keep the mirrors cleaner. There is a noticeable degradation in beam strength when the enclosure is filled with smoke (before I had figured out the exhaust).
I have a filter designed for laser cutters, which I got off of eBay. It doesn't pull much of a vacuum at all, but with unrestricted flow, it moves a lot of air. The problem I had is that the lasersaur enclosure is really well closed and the filter wasn't doing a very good job. When a cut was finished, I would prop open the lid a couple of centimeters and walk away until it had been sucked clean. This causes the smoke to interfere with the beam, and stick on everything inside.
I thought a long time about how I could provide an intake of sufficient size without letting stray laser beam catch things on fire outside. Holes don't work very well either because they cause a lot of drag and the air is very turbulated.
What I ended up doing is splitting the left side panel about 3cm down from the top, and puttin a bend on the bottom piece inward. Then I moved the top piece down one t-slot on the frame, so there is an overlap where the beam won't get a direct shot out the slot. The bend is about 30 degrees and the opening is about 2cm across the length of the top left side. Effectively I made a long single inward louvre. I will take pics later and share them.
The key with airflow is that you want the exhaust area to equal the intake area. My exhaust is a pair of 6" hoses, but the are partially occluded on the top and bottom, so the total area is just slightly larger than one 6" diameter circle. The intake louvre is big enough to come close to ideal. This would be difficult with many small holes.
I hope you can see what I am trying to describe. It looks great on my lasersaur. I found some stainless steel sheets for my exterior panels and right now it looks like it belongs in an operating room (or commercial kitchen).

What do you think?

Ray

Sent from my iPad

[Steve Baker]

YIKES! NO!!!!

You do have to be very careful to contain the laser light. Even reflected
light from a 100+ Watt laser is easily enough to blind you...you want a
way to force multiple reflections of the laser before it can escape the
box.

So just drilling some holes in the case would be a very dangerous thing to
do!

-- Steve

>> > an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>
>
>

-- Steve

[Steve Baker]

We used foam draft-proofing tape around the door to prevent air from
leaking in that way...which required a bit of repositioning of the
door-closed switches.

-- Steve

Stefan Hechenberger wrote:
>

>> - D= 100 mm PULPUR� Absaugschlauch Flexschlauch

>> > � air exhaust
>> > � work surface

>> > > � We fixed the table already, perfect fit now!
>> > > � I overlooked the profile in the extras as I was

>> looking for a
>> > black
>> > > one, my mistake.

>> > > � We added the extra profile for the PSU as you

>> > > > � Frame table: as we installed the long beams

>> from back to
>> > front
>> > > with
>> > > > the dimensions from the building instructions,
>> it turned
>> > out we
>> > > had a
>> > > > spare? 4 long beams between the shorter beams,
>> but the BOM
>> > lists 5.
>> > >
>> > > Correct, you can see all the spare parts in the
>> BOM listed
>> > under the
>> > > "extra" section.
>> > >

>> > > > � Frame outer: in 12.11 there are 4 small

-- Steve

[Eric Hagan]

Does anyone have any recommendations for the exhaust fan in the US? I figured I might be able to find one at McMaster, but it seems they are either too weak or overkill to the tune of $1000. 

[Erik Moon]

Hi Eric-

I bought one off eBay - search for "hydroponics centrifugal fan"... I think pot growers use them to ventilate grow houses...

:)

-Erik

---------- -----=----- ----------

Erik Moon

[Steve Baker]

Yes - they're also called "Pancake" fans.

We got a wonderfully quiet 400cfm fan for $200 from a ...ehem...
"hydroponics" store here in Austin, Texas...avoiding the high shipping
costs of ordering online. 400 cfm is only just enough for a busy
lasersaur - but at $200, we'll probably score (er "buy") a second one
soon. I like the idea of having two small fans instead of one gigantic
one because we can place them at opposite ends of the right-hand panel and
get a more even flow - and also so that if one fails, we're not dead in
the water until we can get a replacement.

It's bizarre that these "hydroponics" stores operate openly - despite
having equipment such as light-proof tents and 5' long fan mufflers that
no amateur tomato grower could possibly either need or afford! Their
company logo looks suspiciously like a seven lobed hemp leaf - which is
odd because all of their products and brochures talk enthusiastically
about "tomato" growing (in your basement - with dozens of halogen lamps
and high volume forced ventilation)! The owner offered us all sorts of
wonderful growing advice before we managed to cut him off by explaining
that we actually needed the fan for a laser cutter!

Anyway - these companies are great sources of cheap, quiet, high-speed fans.

-- Steve

[Stefan Hechenberger]

Grainger should have something suitable. They certainly have a very good
selection of all kinds of filter.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/fans/hvac-and-refrigeration/ecatalog/N-jre?Ndr=basedimid10071&sst=subset

--
Stefan Hechenberger
studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

> > studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com <http://labs.nortd.com>
> > resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
> > project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>
> >

> >> - D= 100 mm PULPUR� Absaugschlauch Flexschlauch

> <http://labs.nortd.com> <http://labs.nortd.com>
> >> resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
> <http://fffff.at>
> >> project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>
> >> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>
> >>

> >> On 01/30/2013 05:21 PM, Kevin wrote:
> >> > As our build is progressing fast we're looking into
> getting
> >> the
> >> > necessary accessories:

> >> > � air exhaust
> >> > � work surface

> >> > > � We fixed the table already, perfect fit now!
> >> > > � I overlooked the profile in the extras as

> I was
> >> looking for a
> >> > black
> >> > > one, my mistake.

> >> > > � We added the extra profile for the PSU as you

> >> > > > � Frame table: as we installed the

> long beams
> >> from back to
> >> > front
> >> > > with
> >> > > > the dimensions from the building
> instructions,
> >> it turned
> >> > out we
> >> > > had a
> >> > > > spare? 4 long beams between the shorter
> beams,
> >> but the BOM
> >> > lists 5.
> >> > >
> >> > > Correct, you can see all the spare parts
> in the
> >> BOM listed
> >> > under the
> >> > > "extra" section.
> >> > >

> >> > > > � Frame outer: in 12.11 there are 4 small

> <mailto:lasersaur%2B...@googlegroups.com>.

> >> > For more options, visit
> >> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out
> >> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> Groups "lasersaur" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
> it, send
> >> an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:lasersaur%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google Groups
> > "lasersaur" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
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> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -- Steve
>
> --
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[Ira Burton]

I have been using this 720cfm fan quite nicely: http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-Active-Air-inch-In-Line/dp/B002JQ4K1I/ref=sr_1_3?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1359758793&sr=1-3&keywords=Active+Air+Inline+Fan

It is about $100.  If the 8" duct is a bit too much for you to stomach, they have a 6" fan for slightly less that is only 400cfm

     >> an email to lasersaur+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

    <mailto:lasersaur%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

     >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
     >>
     >>
     >
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     > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
    Google Groups
     > "lasersaur" group.
     > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
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     >
     >
     >


      -- Steve

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[j. eric townsend]

On 1/30/2013 4:42 PM, Steve Baker wrote:
>
> For the bed, we bought an aluminium "eggcrate" with about a 1cm spacing
> from the eBay supplier mentioned in the lasersaur manual. It works great
> and cost $46 + $20 shipping.
>
> It's sold as a light diffuser - which might help you find a european
> source in Google searches.

[...]

That's what I buy here in the states -- if you look for generic aluminum
light diffusers you can sometimes get them for $20 including shipping.


--
J. Eric Townsend, IDSA
design <http://www.allartburns.org>
hacking <http://www.flatline.net>
fabrication <watch this space>

[j. eric townsend]

On 2/1/2013 1:54 PM, Eric Hagan wrote:
> Does anyone have any recommendations for the exhaust fan in the US? I
> figured I might be able to find one at McMaster, but it seems they are
> either too weak or overkill to the tune of $1000.

It depends a bit on your CFM needs. I got a couple of 6" HVAC in-pipe
fans for under $50 each at a local building supply store. They run on
AC and are easily wired into the master on/off switch so if the
lasersaur is on, the exhaust fans are on.

Forgetting to turn on the exhaust seems to be the #2 killer of
lasercutters around here. Setting the laercutter on fire is the #1
killer. :-)

[j. eric townsend]

On 1/31/2013 12:04 PM, Stefan Hechenberger wrote:
> So, if you have inlets on the left and the exhaust on the right you will
> also have a nice draft on the left, no need to help with extra fans.

That's the route I'm going as well. I started with plans to have two
exhaust hoses, then got lazy and only hooked up the one on stage left.
I'm painting the mounts matte black and will add some shields to try
and keep light from reflecting out the bottom, but even if it does, it's
going into an enclosed stand, not the open air.

[Kevin]

A lot of progress today! Our 'saur is moving! Well at least a little..

Working with the new Driveboard, with the latest versions of LasaurApp and LasaurGrbl installed, all the correct cables hooked up, but having some issues:

- The homing sequence works. We moved both carts somewhere to the center, pressed the home button > MAGIC! Both steppers are working properly, and the laser cart ends up at (0,0) as it should.

> That's where the problems begin. After homing successfuly, we continuously get a "limit hit!" warning.

- Basically, whenever we try to send G-code, through whatever function (direct control/uploading G-code/...) it goes straight into the limit hit loop. The G-code doesn't run, even though the LasaurApp says it's moving and sends a "Done" dialog.

- Testing the limit switches after a fresh reboot works fine, every single limit switch sends out a warning and releases it. We also tested all of those with our multimeter and they seem to work as expected.

- The limit switch error drops after unplugging the steppers.

We're starting to think it's a software issue but are pretty much clueless atm. So any advice is more then welcome!

Thanks,

Kevin

[Stefan Hechenberger]

Kevin, this may be easy to miss ... did you think about the z1, z2 limit
inputs? You can take a patch cable and connect white-orange,
white-green, orange, green (isolate all other leads) to signal "limit ok".

The details what's on the particular leads is on the driveboard
page:http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/manual/driveboard
All limit switch inputs have the same pin configuration.

From your description it's clearly a limit switch wiring issue.
Basically all the limit switch inputs need to have "sig" connected to
"vcc" to not trigger a limit hit error.

--
Stefan Hechenberger
studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

> � Frame table: as we installed the long beams from back to front

> with the dimensions from the building instructions, it turned out we
> had a spare? 4 long beams between the shorter beams, but the BOM
> lists 5.

> � Frame outer: in 12.11 there are 4 small 190mm beams (2x rear

> middle top, bottom, 2x laser psu mount), is the PSU still located on
> the same spot as 12.08 (back left)? So we just add one of the 190mm
> beams on the left side of the one in the middle?
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin
>
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.

[Kevin]

That instantly fixed it.. easy to miss indeed. 

Totally skipped the part that's Z-axis related as we don't have one for now & with the driveboard documentation stating it as optional I figured we wouldn't need to do anything with it. You might want to make that a little more obvious.

Anyway, Stefan, you're a lifesaver! Thanks again.

Testing and optics time tomorrow!

Greets,

Kevin

[Steve Baker]

Stefan is probably right - but on the off chance that he isn't, another
common problem is incorrect shielding on the wiring. That can cause
phantom limit switch events when the machine is running that don't show up
in static testing.

Pay special attention to where the shielding on the cables running between
the various sensors, motors and laser power supply is connected. It's
easy to accidentally ground the wrong end - or both ends or to tie two
grounds together that should be separate...something like that.

-- Steve


Stefan Hechenberger wrote:
>

>> • Frame table: as we installed the long beams from back to front

>> with the dimensions from the building instructions, it turned out we
>> had a spare? 4 long beams between the shorter beams, but the BOM
>> lists 5.

>> • Frame outer: in 12.11 there are 4 small 190mm beams (2x rear

>> middle top, bottom, 2x laser psu mount), is the PSU still located on
>> the same spot as 12.08 (back left)? So we just add one of the 190mm
>> beams on the left side of the one in the middle?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "lasersaur" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lasersaur" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>

-- Steve

[Stefan Hechenberger]

True with the LasaurShield. With the DriveBoard shielding will hopefully
be a non-issue due to the extensive use of shielded cat5 patch cables ;)

That being said, keeping the wiring away (at least 100mm, 4") from the
laser resonator and high-voltages lines is still necessary.

--
Stefan Hechenberger
studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

>>> � Frame table: as we installed the long beams from back to front

>>> with the dimensions from the building instructions, it turned out we
>>> had a spare? 4 long beams between the shorter beams, but the BOM
>>> lists 5.

>>> � Frame outer: in 12.11 there are 4 small 190mm beams (2x rear

[Kevin]

Right-oh, laser alignment and first "cuts" have been done but something seems off.

With our first tries the power didn't seem to be what it should and the tube wouldn't fire below S100 and we constantly had a high screaming/hissing noise coming from the PSU. 

Today we adjusted the laser PSU with the built-in pot, tuning it up until the output wire read 26mA at S255 with the following results:

• Power improvement

• Hissing/screaming disappears at S220

After doing some searches around the board, I found that the screaming noise shouldn't be there, so there's obviously something off.

We wired the laser PSU as the Driveboard instructions states:

• gr,or -> WP (=dis =2,6)
• bl -> TH (=pwm =4)
• wbr,br -> GND (=gnd =7,8)
• wgr,wor -> not used (=vcc =1,3)
• wbl -> not used (=aux2 =5)

Any suggestions would be great, seems like some other people like Ward Elder & Steve Baker have been running into the same issues but I can't seem to find the actual solution.

Thanks,

Kevin

[Steve Baker]

Hmmm - there are definite similarities with our findings.

Our machine shipped with the output wire reading 10mA at S255 - so we
adjusted that pot until the full power current read 23mA or so. I didn't
want to push it higher than that because we don't really need 100W of
power and we'd like to keep the tube life high.

Now that you mention it, I do hear a distinctive noise at mid-range power
settings. I wouldn't describe it as "screaming" but maybe "hissing" or
"humming". It definitely happens when running the laser at 50% to 70%
power - and it goes away at 100%. (I rather like that I can hear when the
machine switches from cutting to etching!)

I also have problems running consistently at low power settings - although
it seems to have a lot to do with temperature. When I first start the
machine, it doesn't "fire" at all below maybe S100 - but when it's been
running for a while that improves a little and I can get down to maybe S64
or so.

It's interesting that our power supply wasn't the only one that ColeTech
didn't adjust for the 100W tube. They *SAY* that the powersupply is
factory-set - but it clearly isn't. Maybe this is a SNAFU at their end?

One problem we know about is that some people got 220v PSU's shipped to
them instead of 110v and got poor results from that - but ours had "110V"
written on the blue plastic wrap, so we assume that's not the problem
here.

Since these problems seem benign (we do all of our work at 100% and 70%
power) - I haven't worried about them...but it's always good to learn
more.

-- Steve

Kevin wrote:
> Right-oh, laser alignment and first "cuts" have been done but something
> seems off.
>
> With our first tries the power didn't seem to be what it should and the
> tube wouldn't fire below S100 and we constantly had a high
> screaming/hissing noise coming from the PSU.
> Today we adjusted the laser PSU with the built-in pot, tuning it up until
> the output wire read 26mA at S255 with the following results:
> • Power improvement
> • Hissing/screaming disappears at S220
>
> After doing some searches around the board, I found that the screaming
> noise shouldn't be there, so there's obviously something off.
> We wired the laser PSU as the Driveboard instructions states:
>

> - gr,or -> WP (=dis =2,6)
> - bl -> TH (=pwm =4)
> - wbr,br -> GND (=gnd =7,8)
> - wgr,wor -> not used (=vcc =1,3)
> - wbl -> not used (=aux2 =5)

>> >>> an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> >> "lasersaur" group.
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send
>> an

>> >> email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

[Stefan Hechenberger]

Some hiss noise is normal. Is it louder than your typical microwave or
inkjet printer?

The ionization level being at about S120 is also normal. Some test have
shown that we get lower power if we use the analog input of laser PSU so
there are ways to improve this. Also the hiss noise is apparently lower
when using analog in (not yet tested myself). My guess is also that the
analog in may show some delays so we have to do some more tests on this
subject.

You can do the following to give it a try:
gr, or -> WP
wbr, br -> GND, TL
bl -> IN

--
Stefan Hechenberger
studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

On 02/08/2013 03:18 PM, Kevin wrote:
> Right-oh, laser alignment and first "cuts" have been done but something
> seems off.
>
> With our first tries the power didn't seem to be what it should and the
> tube wouldn't fire below S100 and we constantly had a high
> screaming/hissing noise coming from the PSU.
> Today we adjusted the laser PSU with the built-in pot, tuning it up
> until the output wire read 26mA at S255 with the following results:

> � Power improvement
> � Hissing/screaming disappears at S220

>
> After doing some searches around the board, I found that the screaming
> noise shouldn't be there, so there's obviously something off.
> We wired the laser PSU as the Driveboard instructions states:
>

> * gr,or -> WP (=dis =2,6)
> * bl -> TH (=pwm =4)
> * wbr,br -> GND (=gnd =7,8)
> * wgr,wor -> not used (=vcc =1,3)
> * wbl -> not used (=aux2 =5)

>
> Any suggestions would be great, seems like some other people like Ward
> Elder & Steve Baker have been running into the same issues but I can't
> seem to find the actual solution.
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin
>
> On Thursday, February 7, 2013 2:05:51 AM UTC+1, stefanix wrote:
>
>
> True with the LasaurShield. With the DriveBoard shielding will
> hopefully
> be a non-issue due to the extensive use of shielded cat5 patch
> cables ;)
>
> That being said, keeping the wiring away (at least 100mm, 4") from the
> laser resonator and high-voltages lines is still necessary.
>
> --
> Stefan Hechenberger

> studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com <http://labs.nortd.com>
> resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
> project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>
>

> >> studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com <http://labs.nortd.com>
> >> resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
> >> project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>
> >>

> >>> an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

> >>> For more options, visit
> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out

> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>.

> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google Groups
> >> "lasersaur" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
> it, send an

> >> email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out
> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > -- Steve

[Kevin]

Stefan, just tried your wiring suggestions.

The Saur is firing properly, we've connected an amp meter to make sure we don't blow stuff up.

We seem to be running to 26mA at arround S130, so I'm guessing something is off there. Could this be related to "function 1" on this picture: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stfnix/6987014326. Meaning that ours is currently set to 0-2V instead of 0-5V?

There's no sound whatsoever in this mode, although it does seem like every power setting starting from S70 to S130 is the same, or could it just be material related (6mm acryl).

Thanks for all the help, most appreciated!

[Steve Baker]

Stefan Hechenberger wrote:
>
> Some hiss noise is normal. Is it louder than your typical microwave or
> inkjet printer?

For our machine, I'd say "No" - but it's hard to tell with the sounds of
the water chiller, air-assist pump, smoke extraction system and motors!

> The ionization level being at about S120 is also normal. Some test have
> shown that we get lower power if we use the analog input of laser PSU so
> there are ways to improve this. Also the hiss noise is apparently lower
> when using analog in (not yet tested myself).

So it's related to doing PWM? That would explain why the noise goes away
at S255.

> My guess is also that the
> analog in may show some delays so we have to do some more tests on this
> subject.
>
> You can do the following to give it a try:
> gr, or -> WP
> wbr, br -> GND, TL
> bl -> IN

I'm not really able to do experimentation right now - our machine has to
churn out $40,000 worth of teeny-tiny plywood building models in the next
month or two or else our Kickstarter backers will be unhappy!

This isn't affecting our productivity - so if it's not actually destroying
the machine, we'll live with it for now.

-- Steve

> On 02/08/2013 03:18 PM, Kevin wrote:
>> Right-oh, laser alignment and first "cuts" have been done but something
>> seems off.
>>
>> With our first tries the power didn't seem to be what it should and the
>> tube wouldn't fire below S100 and we constantly had a high
>> screaming/hissing noise coming from the PSU.
>> Today we adjusted the laser PSU with the built-in pot, tuning it up
>> until the output wire read 26mA at S255 with the following results:

>> • Power improvement
>> • Hissing/screaming disappears at S220

-- Steve

[Stefan Hechenberger]

Kevin, here is the "data sheet". It's written a bit cryptically and is
not very comprehensive.

http://www.recilaser.com/2010/en_product/dy13_en.html

The logic is this, afaik: TH and TL fire the laser. You can choose if a
high signal or a low signal does this (you only use one of them). The IN
optionally allows you to cap the output power. 0-5V is 0-100% (leaving
it disconnected also means 100%). Finally the trim pot allows you to set
what 100% means.

I am not sure if the trim pot is an absolute cap or just relative. Say
you trim so 2V on IN cause 26mA I am then not sure if 5V on IN will then
overshoot the set limit.

I am guessing you need to turn the trim pot until 0-5V will produce 0-26mA.

--
Stefan Hechenberger
studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

> studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com <http://labs.nortd.com>
> resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
> project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>
>

> On 02/08/2013 03:18 PM, Kevin wrote:
> > Right-oh, laser alignment and first "cuts" have been done but
> something
> > seems off.
> >
> > With our first tries the power didn't seem to be what it should
> and the
> > tube wouldn't fire below S100 and we constantly had a high
> > screaming/hissing noise coming from the PSU.
> > Today we adjusted the laser PSU with the built-in pot, tuning it up
> > until the output wire read 26mA at S255 with the following results:

> > � Power improvement
> > � Hissing/screaming disappears at S220

> > <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

> <http://labs.nortd.com> <http://labs.nortd.com>

> > >> resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
> <http://fffff.at>
> > >> project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>

> > <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

> > >>> � Frame table: as we installed the long beams

> from back
> > to front
> > >>> with the dimensions from the building instructions, it
> > turned out we
> > >>> had a spare? 4 long beams between the shorter
> beams, but
> > the BOM
> > >>> lists 5.

> > >>> � Frame outer: in 12.11 there are 4 small 190mm

[Ira Burton]

What is the proper (safest) procedure for measuring the current to the tube?  I have recently started to believe that my power supply is also not properly outputting enough current.

an email to lasersaur+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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[Jeshua Lacock]

On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:38 PM, Ira Burton wrote:

> What is the proper (safest) procedure for measuring the current to the tube? I have recently started to believe that my power supply is also not properly outputting enough current.

I have one of these:

http://www.lightobject.com/3-digit-Mini-Blue-LED-DC-100mA-meter-Ideal-for-CO2-Laser-power-indicator100mA-P457.aspx

You give it 5V DC, then connect one lead to your PSU ground and the other lead to your laser tube ground...

In other words it goes between your laser tube ground and the PSU ground.


Cheers,

Jeshua Lacock
Founder/Engineer
3DTOPO Incorporated
<http://3DTOPO.com>
Phone: 208.462.4171

[Stefan Hechenberger]

Ira, I started a manual entry for this:
http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/manual/laser_adjustments

--
Stefan Hechenberger
studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

On 02/09/2013 07:38 AM, Ira Burton wrote:
> What is the proper (safest) procedure for measuring the current to the
> tube? I have recently started to believe that my power supply is also
> not properly outputting enough current.
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Stefan Hechenberger <ste...@nortd.com
> <mailto:ste...@nortd.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Kevin, here is the "data sheet". It's written a bit cryptically and
> is not very comprehensive.
>

> http://www.recilaser.com/2010/__en_product/dy13_en.html

> <http://www.recilaser.com/2010/en_product/dy13_en.html>
>
> The logic is this, afaik: TH and TL fire the laser. You can choose
> if a high signal or a low signal does this (you only use one of
> them). The IN optionally allows you to cap the output power. 0-5V is
> 0-100% (leaving it disconnected also means 100%). Finally the trim
> pot allows you to set what 100% means.
>
> I am not sure if the trim pot is an absolute cap or just relative.
> Say you trim so 2V on IN cause 26mA I am then not sure if 5V on IN
> will then overshoot the set limit.
>
> I am guessing you need to turn the trim pot until 0-5V will produce
> 0-26mA.
>
>
>
> --
> Stefan Hechenberger

> studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com <http://labs.nortd.com>
> resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
> project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>
>

> On 02/08/2013 06:56 PM, Kevin wrote:
>
> Stefan, just tried your wiring suggestions.
>
> The Saur is firing properly, we've connected an amp meter to
> make sure
> we don't blow stuff up.
> We seem to be running to 26mA at arround S130, so I'm guessing
> something
> is off there. Could this be related to "function 1" on this

> picture: http://www.flickr.com/photos/__stfnix/6987014326
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/stfnix/6987014326>. Meaning that

> <http://labs.nortd.com>
> resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
> <http://fffff.at>
> project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>

> <http://labs.nortd.com/__lasersaur

> <http://labs.nortd.com/__lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>>
> > <http://labs.nortd.com/__lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>
>
> <http://labs.nortd.com/__lasersaur

> page:http://labs.nortd.com/__lasersaur/manual/driveboard
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/manual/driveboard>
> <http://labs.nortd.com/__lasersaur/manual/driveboard
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/manual/driveboard>>
> > <http://labs.nortd.com/__lasersaur/manual/driveboard
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/manual/driveboard>
> <http://labs.nortd.com/__lasersaur/manual/driveboard

> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/manual/driveboard>>>
> > >> All limit switch inputs have the same pin
> configuration.
> > >>
> > >> From your description it's clearly a limit switch
> wiring issue.
> > >> Basically all the limit switch inputs need to
> have "sig"
> > connected to
> > >> "vcc" to not trigger a limit hit error.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Stefan Hechenberger
> > >> studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
> <http://labs.nortd.com>

> <http://labs.nortd.com> <http://labs.nortd.com>
>
> > >> resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
> <http://fffff.at> <http://fffff.at>
> <http://fffff.at>
> > >> project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>

> <http://labs.nortd.com/__lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>>
> > <http://labs.nortd.com/__lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>
>
> <http://labs.nortd.com/__lasersaur

> <mailto:lasersaur%2B...@googlegroups.com> <javascript:>.
> > >>> For more options, visit
> > https://groups.google.com/__groups/opt_out
> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
> <https://groups.google.com/__groups/opt_out
> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>>
> > <https://groups.google.com/__groups/opt_out
> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
> <https://groups.google.com/__groups/opt_out

> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>>>.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> You received this message because you are
> subscribed to the
> > Google Groups
> > >> "lasersaur" group.
> > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop
> receiving emails
> from
> > it, send an
> > >> email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:lasersaur%2B...@googlegroups.com> <javascript:>.
> > >> For more options, visit
> https://groups.google.com/__groups/opt_out
> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
> <https://groups.google.com/__groups/opt_out
> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>>
> > <https://groups.google.com/__groups/opt_out
> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
> <https://groups.google.com/__groups/opt_out

> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>>>.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > -- Steve
> > >
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to
> the Google
> > Groups "lasersaur" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
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> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
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> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>>.
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> >
>
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[Kevin]

Great addition Stefan, definitely useful for new users.

A lot of progress/lessons learned this weekend!

We changed our wiring using the LH/IN instead of the TH, adjusted the laser PSU pot to read 26mA at S255 and we're firing all fine (and noise free) starting at S30.

Being way too enthusiastic when we first fired him up on thursday, without air assist, we managed to crack our lens. The combination of smoke residue, a high power laser reflecting on the air assist nozzle due to a mirror shifting itself out of place due to vibration and a faulty mirror screw is obviously a horrible combination. Anyway, lesson learned and cheap israeli lenses ordered.

In the meanwhile, we're still able to do some low power tests as the lens is still focussing correctly despite the small crack.

Here are some issues we've been running into:

• With all our appliances connected to the same fuse: Lasersaur (12.11 with driveboard), CW-5000 Chiller, air compressor and ventilation fan; Our 'Saur is having issues most likely caused by power fluctuation on the fuse. What basically happens is that the laser switches off and the stepper steering is going berserk, starting the job from zero at high speed and sometimes crashing the beaglebone.

The solution is obvious, have the lasersaur on a separate fuse. We're also thinking of adding a capacitor over the Atmega to catch some of these fluctuations.

• Jagged lines. We've been cutting/etching some testcards but are having some pretty heavy jagged edges, especially on circles. It gets better below F1500 but we think there's still some margin for improvement.

Our belts are tight, X and Y cart are nice and solid too. Anything we can still adjust on the driver/stepper/electronics side? What else could be the cause and what should we be expecting, is it reasonable to expect nice and smooth curves at F6000?

Thanks,

Kevin

[Steve Baker]

We really need someplace to record these kinds of findings - some of them
are things that I've also encountered (although not the cracked lens
thing...ouch!)

I think we need a by-invitation-only-to-edit/free-to-read Wiki. I have
plenty of space on my web site - perhaps I'll set one up (unless Stefan
would care to host it).

We need a community-organized list of "If this problem occurs, do that"
kind of things - a place to link to cheap sources of lenses and mirrors -
a repository of useful test patterns - that kind of thing.

Anyway...

I also had problems with power - we had a relatively cheap power strip
with everything plugged into it - and about once every couple of days, the
thing would trip out and cut the power. I tried surge protectors and such
- with no effect. The total current is well within what one wall socket
can provide - it's just close enough to cause the overly-cautious power
strip to crap out on us once in a while.

I didn't want to just keep trying different power strips until I found one
that would work - and still wanted everything on a single switch so we
wouldn't ever forget to turn something vital on...so I ended up buying a
very chunky extension cord, chopping the end off of it and wiring it into
a set of wall sockets mounted onto the underside of our lasersaur's table
with a single chunky switch to turn everything on and off (chiller,
lasersaur, extactor fan, air-assist pump, laptop charger, USB extenders
and USB hub for the two cameras we have inside our machine, lighting for
the cameras). In effect, I made my own power strip...but a much more
chunky and convenient one than I could buy.

The issue of the optics getting trashed when the laser goes off course and
reflects off of the bottom of the laser tube has so far cost me >$600 in
optics (long & complicated story about why it happened a second
time!)...that is something that *DESPERATELY* needs to be fixed. Stefan
said that he's getting some conical nozzles made to test with - and I've
ordered a conical nozzle to try my own fix for it. (Hmmm - that should
have arrived already - I need to chase that)

Note: If you ever trash the mirror, note that the little set-screw in the
mirror mount is supposed to have a tiny nylon tip - but that melts if the
mirror gets too hot. If you then just replace the mirror and tighten up
that screw again, you'll find that the mirror will eventually slip - or
perhaps crack under the pressure without that nylon tip.

So whenever you lose a mirror - or even "cook" it to a high temperature -
be sure to replace that screw (ThorLabs sell a bag of 10 of them for $11).

I've been looking for a set of affordable mirror mounts that use a
threaded ring to hold the mirror in place to avoid a repetition of THAT
problem.

We didn't crack our lens when we tried to run without air assist (actually
- we removed the end-cap of the laser tube to avoid a repetition of the
reflected-light fiasco but left the air pump running) - but we did
contaminate it so badly that we couldn't clean it enough to re-use it
afterwards - so the result was the same.

This weekend, we lost a mirror (all of the gold coating had burned off) -
we're still not quite sure why - but I see several sites recommending that
you don't use silicon lenses above 60 watts - so we're going to order some
Molybdenum and some Copper lenses - which are supposed to be more robust.

Those are normally horribly expensive - but eBay has them for $35
including shipping (Thor has silicon lenses for $55 plus horrifically
expensive shipping).

Thanks for the info on the laser powersupply wiring. I'll be rewiring
ours to match that...it would be nice to be able to run at lower power
levels.

*MANY* people have reported the jagged lines thing. I have yet to hear of
anyone who managed to fix it. We find the problem more or less
livable-with because most of our cutting is parallel to the axes and we
don't see the problem then.

I suspect there is some kind of resonance problem when the X and Y motors
are working at particular step rates and the sum or difference of their
frequencies hits the resonant frequency of some part of the system.

I don't have proof of that - and I'm even less sure of a good way to fix it.

-- Steve

> --
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>
>
>

-- Steve

[Kevin]

"Stefan said that he's getting some conical nozzles made to test with - and I've 
ordered a conical nozzle to try my own fix for it.  (Hmmm - that should 
have arrived already - I need to chase that)"

After we ran into the reflection problem, we basically just used a countersinking bit, at an 120deg. angle (don't use the 90deg. version it will just bounce straight up again). It will still end up in the lens at some point, but it will bounce around the lensholder for a while, losing power, before actually reaching it again.

More info on the jagged lines issue is still more then welcome. So we can at least have an idea of the max feed rate for an acceptable cut.

on a side note: we also found really cheap chinese lenses which we'll be testing whenever they arrive (35dollar each):

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/co2-laser-lens-znse-lens-focus-lens/335137236.html

[Erik Moon]

We're seeing issues with consistent laser power that might be related to your jagged lines issue.

When we tried to vector engrave (basically just cutting at a power level below the cut threshold), we were seeing that the laser power is definitely not constant. We're seeing a power pattern that looks like a "comb" pointing downwards. It seems to be worse when cutting curves and shapes other than straight lines.

I suspect (haven't tried to verify this yet) that even when it APPEARS that the carriage is moving smoothly, it is actually moving in chunks and briefly stopping. If this is truly the case, the laser "dwell" time on these start / stop points would explain the deeper engraving points.

That said, we have not yet calibrated laser power and have not tried the analog inputs on the PSU.

The reason I think this is related to the jagged lines issue - especially on curves and compound shapes, if the axes are stopping briefly, then restarting movement, the inertia combined with different acceleration rates between X & Y axes could cause the carriage to not move smoothly. Couple that with any slack or stretch in the belts and we have a major backlash issue that could cause the jaggies.

Thoughts?

---------- -----=----- ----------

Erik Moon

V: (703) 738-5980

Sent from my iPad

--

[Stefan Hechenberger]

Hi Kevin,

I believe you are not the first person to kill a lens ;) We have started
a manual page to help with properly operating a Lasersaur:
http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/manual/operation

> resetting lasersaur
I will start a thread specificaly for this.

> jagged lines
To what degree are you getting them. We can cut the TestCard without
jagged lines up to F3000. With F4000 we start getting minimal ones and
any faster it's getting a bit bouncy (not that we need to cut at that
speed). I have a suspicion they are mainly caused by belt vibration. If
you want to experiment with belt guides to dampen vibration that would
be great ...

--
Stefan Hechenberger
studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

On 02/10/2013 02:46 PM, Kevin wrote:
> Great addition Stefan, definitely useful for new users.
>
> A lot of progress/lessons learned this weekend!
>
> We changed our wiring using the LH/IN instead of the TH, adjusted the
> laser PSU pot to read 26mA at S255 and we're firing all fine (and noise
> free) starting at S30.
>
> Being way too enthusiastic when we first fired him up on thursday,
> without air assist, we managed to crack our lens. The combination of
> smoke residue, a high power laser reflecting on the air assist nozzle
> due to a mirror shifting itself out of place due to vibration and a
> faulty mirror screw is obviously a horrible combination. Anyway, lesson
> learned and cheap israeli lenses ordered.
> In the meanwhile, we're still able to do some low power tests as the
> lens is still focussing correctly despite the small crack.
>
> Here are some issues we've been running into:

> � With all our appliances connected to the same fuse: Lasersaur (12.11

> with driveboard), CW-5000 Chiller, air compressor and ventilation fan;
> Our 'Saur is having issues most likely caused by power fluctuation on
> the fuse. What basically happens is that the laser switches off and the
> stepper steering is going berserk, starting the job from zero at high
> speed and sometimes crashing the beaglebone.
> The solution is obvious, have the lasersaur on a separate fuse. We're
> also thinking of adding a capacitor over the Atmega to catch some of
> these fluctuations.

> � Jagged lines. We've been cutting/etching some testcards but are having

> some pretty heavy jagged edges, especially on circles. It gets better
> below F1500 but we think there's still some margin for improvement.
> Our belts are tight, X and Y cart are nice and solid too. Anything we
> can still adjust on the driver/stepper/electronics side? What else could
> be the cause and what should we be expecting, is it reasonable to expect
> nice and smooth curves at F6000?
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin
>

[Gabriel Helms]

Wow, I must have something funky. I get jagged lines above F1000. Guess I need to try harder to find the cause.

Gabriel

Sent from my iPhone

>> • With all our appliances connected to the same fuse: Lasersaur (12.11

>> with driveboard), CW-5000 Chiller, air compressor and ventilation fan;
>> Our 'Saur is having issues most likely caused by power fluctuation on
>> the fuse. What basically happens is that the laser switches off and the
>> stepper steering is going berserk, starting the job from zero at high
>> speed and sometimes crashing the beaglebone.
>> The solution is obvious, have the lasersaur on a separate fuse. We're
>> also thinking of adding a capacitor over the Atmega to catch some of
>> these fluctuations.

>> • Jagged lines. We've been cutting/etching some testcards but are having

[Steve Baker]

The major problem I see is that the Arduino doesn't alter the laser energy
as the motors are accelerated up to speed and slowed down again. Hence
the depth of etching varies at the starts and ends of lines...and this
affects curves too.

Slowing the head speed *WAY* down - and dialling down the power to match -
means that the head gets up to speed much more quickly - which gets better
etching uniformity - but it takes a LOT longer to etch complex patterns
than high speed/high power.

A software fix ought to be possible for this...but it might be
complicated. I haven't had time to dig through the Aduino code to figure
out if there is something easy that could be done.

-- Steve

-- Steve

[Kevin]

Same here Gabriel, even at 1000 we get really small deviations but those are acceptable.

What's the function of the Geckos adjustment pot? Could fiddling around with this help somehow?

[Steve Baker]

Yep - same here. We've had several other people with the same problem in
past threads.

I also wondered about the Gecko adjustment - but the Gecko manual *says*
that it's a slow speed adjustment. My problems are manifested at higher
speeds (1800mm/min). In my case, and some of the other people who posted,
it only happens with diagonal lines/curves at certain angles. That could
mean that one motor is running slowly even though the cut speed is more
generally high...but I see jaggies like this in roughly 45 degree cuts
where both motors are going fast.

The fact that the problem happens at certain angles says to me that it
can't be a problem with just one axis of the machine - it has to be some
kind of cross-coupling between the two.

If that's true - then the Gecko settings can't be at fault because each
Gecko doesn't "know" what the other one is doing.

That's what make me think that this is some kind of structural vibration
that comes about due to beat frequencies between the stepping of the two
motors hitting the resonant frequency of some part of the structure...the
belts being a likely candidate.

I don't know what the answer is - but for what it's worth, here is my
wild-assed theory:

The resulting cut edge isn't just a sinusoidal wobble - it's more like a
row of spikes with smooth semi-circular curves between them. The ones
that I see at around 2000mm/min cut speeds are one or two millimeters
long...so the rate of vibration is around (2000/60)/2 = 16Hz. I'm not
sure that's the exact number - but it's in the 10 to 20Hz range.

The significant thing is that I don't see wobbles in the cut at any other
frequency - at that cut speed, I don't see cut edges with a 1mm wavelength
wobble - or a 4mm wavelength wobble...only around 2mm. To me, this
strongly suggests a resonance problem.

One step of the stepper motor produces an 0.03mm movement - so at (say)
2000mm/min, we're getting about 1,100 steps per second when moving
parallel to the X or Y axis - so we'd expect vibration rates up in the
1kHz range...too much to cause this kind of problem. But at close to 45
degrees, we might well get into a situation where one motor is moving at
(say) 1000Hz and the other at 1016Hz - producing a 16Hz beat frequency.

If some part of the structure (a belt or maybe the Y cart railing itself)
were to resonate at 16Hz, then at frequencies close to that, the whole
thing would get into a sympathetic vibration that would build up in
amplitude along the length of the cut...which is what I see.

-- Steve

Kevin wrote:
> Same here Gabriel, even at 1000 we get really small deviations but those
> are acceptable.
>
> What's the function of the Geckos adjustment pot? Could fiddling around
> with this help somehow?
>
> On Sunday, February 10, 2013 10:34:58 PM UTC+1, Gabriel Helms wrote:
>>
>> Wow, I must have something funky. I get jagged lines above F1000. Guess
>> I
>> need to try harder to find the cause.
>>
>> Gabriel
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 10, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Stefan Hechenberger

>> <ste...@nortd.com<javascript:>>

>> >> an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "lasersaur" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

>> an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lasersaur" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>

-- Steve

[Steve Baker]

Kevin wrote:
> "Stefan said that he's getting some conical nozzles made to test with -
> and
> I've
> ordered a conical nozzle to try my own fix for it. (Hmmm - that should
> have arrived already - I need to chase that)"
>
> After we ran into the reflection problem, we basically just used a
> countersinking bit, at an 120deg. angle (don't use the 90deg. version it
> will just bounce straight up again). It will still end up in the lens at
> some point, but it will bounce around the lensholder for a while, losing
> power, before actually reaching it again.

Ooooh! That's a stunningly good idea!

Not as good as the parabolic cross-section nozzles - but *WAY* better than
the flat plate that we have now! I'll grab a 120 degree countersink bit
on the way home!

I had the idea of just roughening up the upper surface of the end-plate
with coarse-grit sandpaper with the idea that the light would at least
scatter off more randomly...but I think your idea is better...maybe I'll
do both!

Until we have a better nozzle, that should be in the build instructions!

-- Steve

[Ward Elder]

Just to add my two cents: I not using the Lasersaur controller. I am
using a Testra controller as I needed raster printing right away. I too
have the jagged lines at higher speeds over 1500mm/min. I tried belt
tension and making the y-cart heavier. No major change.

Thank you,


Ward M. Elder
ElderSoft
42 Appleton St.
Winnipeg, MB
R2G1K5
(204) 791-7754 (Cell)

wa...@eldersoft.ca

>> >> * With all our appliances connected to the same fuse: Lasersaur

>> (12.11
>> >> with driveboard), CW-5000 Chiller, air compressor and ventilation
>> fan;
>> >> Our 'Saur is having issues most likely caused by power fluctuation

>> >> on the fuse. What basically happens is that the laser switches off

>> >> and
>> the
>> >> stepper steering is going berserk, starting the job from zero at
>> >> high speed and sometimes crashing the beaglebone.
>> >> The solution is obvious, have the lasersaur on a separate fuse.
>> >> We're also thinking of adding a capacitor over the Atmega to catch

>> >> some of these fluctuations.

>> >> * Jagged lines. We've been cutting/etching some testcards but are

[Kevin]

We're thinking of tweaking the acceleration values in LasaurGrbl config.h, 2 questions:

• Could that possibly be of any use?

• Is it possible to reprogram the Atmega through the ICSP pins on the Driveboard or should we just unplug it and use the Arduino.

[Justin Krull]

Has anyone tried switching the Y-axis stepper wiring to power mode instead of speed mode to fix this issue? Maybe the Y-cart is too heavy for the stepper. If we can't cut at higher speeds without seeing the resonances, there isn't much point in having the extra speed.

On small details, we can't cut above F800 (~F1000 on larger details) without seeing resonances at changes in direction.

[Justin Krull]

Nevermind, looking at the stepper graph, it doesn't look like switching from parallel to series will help with this issue, except at the lowest speeds. New question: has anyone tried a more powerful stepper on the Y-axis?

[Justin Krull]

Also, if someone can provide the mass of the two carts, we can calculate the torque necessary to change directions at various cart speeds. This way, we can be sure both steppers on the carts are adequate.

We can't dismantle ours right now just to obtain this information, unfortunately.

[Stefan Hechenberger]

With the DriveBoard you can upload new firmware directly from the
BeagleBone. Just make sure you have avrdude installed (with the opkg
command):
http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?pkgname=avrdude

The atmega runs the Arduino bootloader so you have to reset the chip
right before uploading. LasaurApp can do this for you:

1) download, edit, recompile new LasaurGrbl
2) copy firmware to LasaurApp/firmware/firmware_test.hex on BeagleBone
3) Open http://lasersaur.local/flash_firmware/firmware_test.hex
4) Done!

There are two parameters in the config.h that may have an effect on the
smoothness of the motion:

CONFIG_ACCELERATION
and
ACCELERATION_TICKS_PER_SECOND

From my tests, former affects ripples right after sharp turns and
latter did not show much effect at all for anything above 80 (it
basically how well each step is timed, temporal resolution so to say).

--
Stefan Hechenberger
studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

On 02/11/2013 07:26 PM, Kevin wrote:
> We're thinking of tweaking the acceleration values in LasaurGrbl
> config.h, 2 questions:

> � Could that possibly be of any use?
> � Is it possible to reprogram the Atmega through the ICSP pins on the

> Driveboard or should we just unplug it and use the Arduino.
>
> On Sunday, February 10, 2013 5:59:11 PM UTC+1, stefanix wrote:
>
>
> Hi Kevin,
>
> I believe you are not the first person to kill a lens ;) We have
> started
> a manual page to help with properly operating a Lasersaur:
> http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/manual/operation
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/manual/operation>
>
> > resetting lasersaur
> I will start a thread specificaly for this.
>
> > jagged lines
> To what degree are you getting them. We can cut the TestCard without
> jagged lines up to F3000. With F4000 we start getting minimal ones and
> any faster it's getting a bit bouncy (not that we need to cut at that
> speed). I have a suspicion they are mainly caused by belt vibration. If
> you want to experiment with belt guides to dampen vibration that would
> be great ...
>
> --
> Stefan Hechenberger

> studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com <http://labs.nortd.com>
> resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
> project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>
>

> > an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out

> <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>.

[Steve Baker]

Justin Krull wrote:
> Has anyone tried switching the Y-axis stepper wiring to power mode instead
> of speed mode to fix this issue? Maybe the Y-cart is too heavy for the
> stepper. If we can't cut at higher speeds without seeing the resonances,
> there isn't much point in having the extra speed.
>
> On small details, we can't cut above F800 (~F1000 on larger details)
> without seeing resonances at changes in direction.

If you're seeing 'rounded corners' (kinda) then that's possible that
you're seeing a problem we had where the roller bearings underneath either
the X or Y cart are not gripping the underside of the railing properly.

-- Steve

>
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Kevin <ke...@buskruit.be> wrote:
>
>> We're thinking of tweaking the acceleration values in LasaurGrbl
>> config.h,
>> 2 questions:
>> • Could that possibly be of any use?
>> • Is it possible to reprogram the Atmega through the ICSP pins on the
>> Driveboard or should we just unplug it and use the Arduino.
>>
>> On Sunday, February 10, 2013 5:59:11 PM UTC+1, stefanix wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Kevin,
>>>
>>> I believe you are not the first person to kill a lens ;) We have
>>> started
>>> a manual page to help with properly operating a Lasersaur:

>>> http://labs.nortd.com/**lasersaur/manual/operation<http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/manual/operation>

>>> > an email to lasersaur+...@**googlegroups.com.
>>> > For more options, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>.

>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> "lasersaur" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an
>> email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lasersaur" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>

-- Steve

[Stefan Hechenberger]

The firmware is pretty much ready for doing dynamic laser intensity but
as so many things the difficulty is in the detail. When we tried evening
out the line darkness we noticed that this leaves the corner points not
being cut. Basically when the laser starts a line segment it needs to
pierce all the way through and takes some time for this. If you diminish
the beam too much it basically won't pierce through in the corners.

To solve this right we need to add short, configurable pierce actions at
the start (maybe also at the end) of each line. The other solution
would be to have different diminution profiles for cuts and etches.

BTW: I don't think dynamic intensity will have much of an effect for the
evenness of curves. The motion planner tries to keep pretty constant
speed if lines are close to parallel ... that gives me an idea to try
something. Maybe the curves are too tessellated and the motion planer
reduced the speed too much at each segment joint ... brb

--
Stefan Hechenberger
studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

[Steve Baker]

Stefan Hechenberger wrote:
>
> The firmware is pretty much ready for doing dynamic laser intensity but
> as so many things the difficulty is in the detail. When we tried evening
> out the line darkness we noticed that this leaves the corner points not
> being cut. Basically when the laser starts a line segment it needs to
> pierce all the way through and takes some time for this. If you diminish
> the beam too much it basically won't pierce through in the corners.

Yes - I understand.

I think the difficulty here is that the G-code doesn't contain the
"intent" of the designer.

If I want the machine to *CUT* then I don't much care if a little too much
laser energy is applied as the system speeds up and slows down. This beam
shaping isn't really needed.

But when I'm *ETCHING*, an excess of laser energy is really, really bad!
It can result in a hole being cut in the corners of designs, or in short
lines being etched so deeply that the part becomes very fragile!
Decorative effects are really hard to do at reasonable speeds because of
this. I don't mind so much if there is a tiny gap in the etching at
corners...it's better than a huge hole!

So what I'd like to do would be to turn off the beam shaping code in *CUT*
passes - and only enable it when *ETCHING*.

However, G-code only tells you the laser power and speed...there is no
indication of this intent.

My preference would be to have a new G-code to enable and disable beam
shaping (or perhaps tune it's aggressiveness by setting a minimum power
level). Have a check box in the GUI for each pass to tell the system to
generate a beam-shaping G-code at the start of each pass.

So perhaps this:

S100,40

...meaning:

Set the full-speed power to S100 - set the "zero-speed" power to S40 -
interpolate between those two values depending on the actual speed.

S100

...is the same thing as S100,100 - which is the current behavior and
disables beam-shaping.

-- Steve

[Kevin]

Hey Stefan,

I successfully uploaded the new LasaurGrbl a couple of times yesterday, nice and easy.

There's one issue we had for a while now. Atm we are using my "old" atmega that came with one of my Uno's, the one we ordered from Mouser with our order seems impossible to flash.

I'm guessing that the one from Mouser didn't come preloaded with the arduino bootloader which seems necessary. If that's the case it might be a good idea to change the atmega from mouser to a preloaded one or put some reference to instructions on how to actually get a bootloader on the damn thing :)

Thanks,

Kevin

[Stefan Hechenberger]

True, true ... we are a bit behind compiling all the setup instructions
for the DriveBoard. Docs will be here:

http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/manual/lasaurapp
http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur/manual/driveboard

--
Stefan Hechenberger
studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com
resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at
project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

> studio: Nortd Labs - labs.nortd.com <http://labs.nortd.com>
> resident: F.A.T. Lab - fffff.at <http://fffff.at>
> project: Lasersaur - labs.nortd.com/lasersaur
> <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur>
>

> On 02/11/2013 07:26 PM, Kevin wrote:
> > We're thinking of tweaking the acceleration values in LasaurGrbl
> > config.h, 2 questions:

> > � Could that possibly be of any use?
> > � Is it possible to reprogram the Atmega through the ICSP pins

> > <http://labs.nortd.com/lasersaur

> > > � With all our appliances connected to the same fuse:

> Lasersaur
> > (12.11
> > > with driveboard), CW-5000 Chiller, air compressor and
> ventilation
> > fan;
> > > Our 'Saur is having issues most likely caused by power
> > fluctuation on
> > > the fuse. What basically happens is that the laser
> switches off
> > and the
> > > stepper steering is going berserk, starting the job from
> zero at
> > high
> > > speed and sometimes crashing the beaglebone.
> > > The solution is obvious, have the lasersaur on a separate
> fuse.
> > We're
> > > also thinking of adding a capacitor over the Atmega to
> catch some of
> > > these fluctuations.

> > > � Jagged lines. We've been cutting/etching some