Martyrdom should never be praised.

[Rich Birkett]

Lloyd-

I agree there may be some instances where dying for a cause is praiseworthy. Jordan Peterson said beliefs are worth dying for. Before Peterson turned theist, he was an atheist. Would he say that his past atheist beliefs are worth dying for? I can't think of any situation where I have to choose death to defend my beliefs.

-Rich

On 9/22/2025 5:04 PM, lloyd kumley wrote:

Thanks, Rich. I mostly agree with you, though there may be some instances when dying for a cause is praiseworthy. Thanks for your letter.

Lloyd

>>>I'll preface my comments by saying intentional unjustified violence,

political or otherwise, is unacceptable. However, Charlie Kirk's
memorial service reminded me of a Christian religious revival where Kirk
was praised as a martyr. Jesus was praised as a martyr. Islam rewards
martyrdom with 40 virgins. Militaries use martyrdom with promises of an
immortal afterlife, to motivate soldiers to enter into life-threatening
situations. You may have heard the saying "There are no atheists in
foxholes." Martyrdom should never be praised.

=Rich

--

--/Lloyd Kumley
c/o 1065 Madison NE #12
Salem, OR 97301
Lloy...@gmail.com

[Vijay Nilekani]

A good example is the 16th century scientific genius, Galileo Galilei in Pisa, Italy.

He stated that the Earth was not the center of the Universe.

Pope Urban condemned him for heresy. This was in the early 16th century AD when the Inquisition was in full swing. The Bible was the totality of all human knowledge as far as the all powerful church was concerned.

Galileo recanted his theories & propositions so that he would not be direly punished or killed. He lived on to do a lot more research & discoveries in science & engineering.

In only 1992 did Pope John Paul officially remove all the Catholic strictures & restrictions placed on him in the 16th Century.

Vijay 

Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer

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[Bradley Felix]

I'm wondering if there is a definable difference between "a cause" and "a belief" in the discussion.  Was it Voltaire who posited that "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it?"  It seems in that case the cause and the belief are 2 differing stances.  I would probably say that I might die for a cause (although as an ex-military guy I abhor the dilemma) but I am not certain that I would die for a belief.  As for Peterson, whether he was ever atheist is not a defense of his position that you would die for beliefs. Hearing his Jubilee debate made it abundantly clear(er) to me that he's been nothing but a social grievance grifter since his days as a professor.