Time to say goodbye...
Dirk Eschler
I've been a bad webmaster the last few years.
Our website is horribly outdated. It shows its age in each and every aspect.
Not only design and content wise, doing a release is also a real pain.
Whenever i visit the website, deleting spam at the forums, i leave it with a
bad feeling.
So i've build a new website (again). I know, i've announced it several times.
The first version i've build with Django was too heavy and never got finished.
This time i kept it simple, left several old perceptions behind, basically
starting from scratch. I focussed on a simple design with only a few subpages.
The move to extragear helped alot to keep it simple. And the fact that
nowadays Krusader can easily be installed an any important distribution
(thanks to Frank's aggressive marketing ;)). So there is no bloated download
section, just the recent source and some instructions how to install it as
well as a section how to get involved. The project activity is aggregated from
projects.kde.org and displays the last checkins on the landing page.
The documentation is now a core part of the website. I feel it's one of the
project's highlights and the website has to honour it. The docs now integrate
seemless, they actually use the same stylesheets as the website itself. An
xslt is run by cron to checkout the source and update the docs on a daily
basis.
The only showstopper i see could be the forums. They run on an ancient version
of phpbb and are invaded by spammers in a way that is not maintainable
anymore. I'm asking myself if we still need the forums, you hardly see people
using forums these days anyway. Is it time to say goodbye to them? Or do you
feel we need them?
I've hosted a fully usable version of the new website here:
http://django.krusader.org/
Please let me know what you think.
Best Regards,
Dirk Eschler
--
Dirk Eschler <esc...@gmail.com>
Yuri Chornoivan
Hi and Happy New Year,
Great work! The new site looks... amazing. :) Thank you.
I just wanted to say that some bits on traffic and maintenance can be
saved by using KDE docbook site facilities. It provides weekly updated
docs in HTML and PDF format with localizations.
Best regards,
Yuri
r2ruy...@yahoo.de
I like the new site very much. You're absolutely right: the old site is quite overloaded and has to many pages. The new version looks very very clean, which is quite nice :) Also the "Project Activity" section on the frontpage is a nice idea enabling the user to see at a glance how much activity happens (and the rss icon/link, cool! I've just subscribed).
Here are some thoughts regarding the new site:
Remarks concerning the header
-------------------------------
- there is this horizontal menu bar with home, "Get Krusader", "Get Involved", "Documentation". Since these are only 4 items, you could put them into the blue banner area above and thus make them bigger (filling the whole vertical space of the blue banner area).
- for me, it's a bit confusing to the the '~' after the home icon; I would put it in front the icon
Remarks concerning the footer
-------------------------------
- on the bottom is a bit strange color combination, some sort of dark yellow on blue? Looks a bit outdated
- as a user I'm wondering what the link 'quickgit.kde.org' is for. I know git. I know projects.kde.org. But not the difference between both. A tooltip explaining this would be nice.
General remarks
-------------------------------
- front page: krusader is developed with qt / kde libraries, but the screenshots irritate me since they doesn't look like a qt / kde application, but more like a gnome app
- there is no horizontal fixed size of the site, which makes the site look strange with a big display in a maximized browser window, most things are just on the left instead of the center
- the headings contain newlines?:
"Participate
in Krusader development"
- I think it's important to make the "bugs.kde.org" link more prominent. I know, it's in the footer and also as a link on the right side of "Get involved"
- on e.g. "Get Involved" there is this orange rounded box on the right - it contains important links, but somehow I missed it completely in the beginning!
Best regards,
r2ruyu-nana :)
Dirk Eschler
> Great work! The new site looks... amazing. :) Thank you.
>
> I just wanted to say that some bits on traffic and maintenance can be
> saved by using KDE docbook site facilities. It provides weekly updated
> docs in HTML and PDF format with localizations.
>
> Best regards,
> Yuri
>
> [1] http://docs.kde.org/development/en/extragear-utils/
Hi Yuri,
thanks for the feedback!
Yet another service i haven't heard about. :) Great to know they create PDFs,
we should definitively link to the Krusader version on the website. Thought
about creating a PDF myself, but this makes it alot easier.
Best Regards,
Dirk
--
Dirk Eschler <esc...@gmail.com>
Dirk Eschler
thanks for the feedback, you bring up some very good points.
Am Dienstag, 3. Januar 2012, 18:49:10 schrieb r2ruy...@yahoo.de:
[...]
> Remarks concerning the header
> -------------------------------
>
> - there is this horizontal menu bar with home, "Get Krusader", "Get
> Involved", "Documentation". Since these are only 4 items, you could put
> them into the blue banner area above and thus make them bigger (filling
> the whole vertical space of the blue banner area).
I'm not sure, the header is already used by a few administration links when
you are logged into the cms.
> - for me, it's a bit confusing to the the '~' after the home icon; I would
> put it in front the icon
Agreed, moved the tilde in front of the icon.
> Remarks concerning the footer
> -------------------------------
>
> - on the bottom is a bit strange color combination, some sort of dark
> yellow on blue? Looks a bit outdated
The footer uses a very light grey color (#cccccc). The hover effect was
strange indeed, i've replaced it with white and removed the underline.
> - as a user I'm wondering what the link 'quickgit.kde.org' is for. I know
> git. I know projects.kde.org. But not the difference between both. A
> tooltip explaining this would be nice.
To be honest, i don't know the difference myself. :) Just stumbled upon it
while developing the site.
> General remarks
> -------------------------------
>
> - front page: krusader is developed with qt / kde libraries, but the
> screenshots irritate me since they doesn't look like a qt / kde
> application, but more like a gnome app
I took the screenshots with the KDE style and icon set i'm using (Skulpture
with Tango icons). Never had the feeling it makes Krusader look like a Gnome
app, but perhaps you're right. I just never liked the default style/icon set
too much.
> - there is no horizontal fixed size of the site, which makes the site look
> strange with a big display in a maximized browser window, most things are
> just on the left instead of the center
Yes, i'm aware if it. I thought about extending the site with multiple,
slightly different layouts, for different screen sizes/output devices. Should
be possible with css media queries. There liquid core layout is already very
flexible.
> - the headings contain newlines?:
> "Participate
> in Krusader development"
Multiline headers are the designers rounded corners of the 2010's. :-)
There's some room for improventment. I've also experimented with some dynamic
webfonts, but they didn't look good in all browsers.
> - I think it's important to make the "bugs.kde.org" link more prominent. I
> know, it's in the footer and also as a link on the right side of "Get
> involved"
I totally agree. There's enough space in the navigation bar, i've added the
link to it now. Wasn't sure in first place, since it's an external link.
> - on e.g. "Get Involved" there is this orange rounded box on the right -
> it contains important links, but somehow I missed it completely in the
> beginning!
This could be sorted out by using adjusted layouts for different screen sizes
(s.o.).
Dirk Eschler
> strange with a big display in a maximized browser window, most things are
> just on the left instead of the center
Heya,
i've made a few changes to the layout, it's supposed to work much better with
high resolutions.
r2ruy...@yahoo.de
Thank you very much for all the improvements :)
On Tuesday 03 January 2012 22:12:49 Dirk Eschler wrote:
> > Remarks concerning the header
> > -------------------------------
> > - there is this horizontal menu bar with home, "Get Krusader", "Get
> > Involved", "Documentation". Since these are only 4 items, you could put
> > them into the blue banner area above and thus make them bigger (filling
> > the whole vertical space of the blue banner area).
>
> I'm not sure, the header is already used by a few administration links when
> you are logged into the cms.
Oh ok. Well, if you like the idea nevertheless, you could move the admin links into current menu bar (and hide it if there you're not logged in as admin).
> > - for me, it's a bit confusing to the the '~' after the home icon; I would
> > put it in front the icon
>
> Agreed, moved the tilde in front of the icon.
Thanks! File paths containing '~' starts with that character. So it looks more familiar now :)
> > - as a user I'm wondering what the link 'quickgit.kde.org' is for. I know
> > git. I know projects.kde.org. But not the difference between both. A
> > tooltip explaining this would be nice.
>
> To be honest, i don't know the difference myself. :) Just stumbled upon it
> while developing the site.
Haha ;)
> > General remarks
> > -------------------------------
> > - there is no horizontal fixed size of the site, which makes the site look
> > strange with a big display in a maximized browser window, most things are
> > just on the left instead of the center
>
> Yes, i'm aware if it. I thought about extending the site with multiple,
> slightly different layouts, for different screen sizes/output devices. Should
> be possible with css media queries. There liquid core layout is already very
> flexible.
Size is now fantastic!
> > - I think it's important to make the "bugs.kde.org" link more prominent. I
> > know, it's in the footer and also as a link on the right side of "Get
> > involved"
>
> I totally agree. There's enough space in the navigation bar, i've added the
> link to it now. Wasn't sure in first place, since it's an external link.
Yes, I also wasn't sure, that's why I couldn't make a proposal. I think it's good there until somebody finds a better place.
BR,
r2ruyu-nana :P
Marcin Gryszkalis
> So i've build a new website (again).
I have to say that the subject of your mail made me think "no! another
one leaves the project, krusader is doomed!" - fortunately it's not the
case :)
The new page looks great, no complaints, I'd switch now.
Regarding forums - I would leave a read-only copy somewhere just as a
reference (no link from the main page).
best regards
--
Marcin Gryszkalis, PGP 0x9F183FA3
jabber jid:m...@fork.pl, gg:2532994
http://the.fork.pl
Dirk Eschler
> On 03.01.2012 04:09, Dirk Eschler wrote:
> > So i've build a new website (again).
>
> I have to say that the subject of your mail made me think "no! another
> one leaves the project, krusader is doomed!" - fortunately it's not the
> case :)
Gotcha! ;-)
> The new page looks great, no complaints, I'd switch now.
>
> Regarding forums - I would leave a read-only copy somewhere just as a
> reference (no link from the main page).
Agreed, also came to the conclusion that the forum is still a great resource
of information, which we shouldn't just throw away. It's also ranked in Google
pretty high. So i'll try to clean up the forum a bit, put it into a spearate
database, and host it on a subdomain.
Jonas Bähr
Am 06.01.2012 um 18:33 schrieb Dirk Eschler:
> Am Freitag, 6. Januar 2012, 16:50:58 schrieb Marcin Gryszkalis:
>> The new page looks great, no complaints, I'd switch now.
Indeed. Thanks for your work! Some remarks though ;-)
Home pape:
-) Could you link "Krusader Krew" to http://django.krusader.org/get-involved/contributors/?
-) How much work is it to add manual control the slide show? It
would be nice to stop the automatic image flow and show next/prev
overlay-icons inside the image on mouse-over.
http://django.krusader.org/get-involved/contributors/:
-) Here "Norton Commander" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Commander
>> Regarding forums - I would leave a read-only copy somewhere just as a
>> reference (no link from the main page).
>
> Agreed, also came to the conclusion that the forum is still a great
> resource
> of information, which we shouldn't just throw away. It's also ranked
> in Google
> pretty high. So i'll try to clean up the forum a bit, put it into a
> spearate
> database, and host it on a subdomain.
Perhaps we could also move the content to the KDE forms [1]. They are
also using phpBB so it shouldn't be too difficult to integrate our
content. There are quite a few application specific boards already.
>
> Best Regards,
> Dirk
>
> --
> Dirk Eschler <esc...@gmail.com>
>
> --
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> .
>
Dirk Eschler
> On Tuesday 03 January 2012 22:12:49 Dirk Eschler wrote:
> > > - as a user I'm wondering what the link 'quickgit.kde.org' is for. I
> > > know
> > >
> > > git. I know projects.kde.org. But not the difference between both. A
> > > tooltip explaining this would be nice.
> >
> > To be honest, i don't know the difference myself. :) Just stumbled upon
> > it while developing the site.
>
> Haha ;)
Quickgit seems to be just a different service providing very similiar
functionality.
It could still be useful though. Projects.kde.org was down for maintainance
yesterday, and after it went back up, the atom feed didn't work anymore (it
still doesn't).
https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/utils/krusader/activity is empty,
so is the atom feed.
Perhaps i can use http://quickgit.kde.org/index.php?p=krusader.git as a
fallback. They provide atom and rss feeds, and they still work. Currently i
just don't display the project activity block on the landing page in case the
feed is empty.
Dirk Eschler
Am Freitag, 6. Januar 2012, 19:23:06 schrieb Jonas Bähr:
> Home pape:
> -) Could you link "Krusader Krew" to
> http://django.krusader.org/get-involved/contributors/?
Done.
> -) How much work is
> it to add manual control the slide show? It
> would be nice to stop the automatic image flow and show next/prev
> overlay-icons inside the image on mouse-over.
Shouldn't be too hard. Mostly a matter of finding some nicely designed overlay
icons. I'll put it on my list of enhancements.
> http://django.krusader.org/get-involved/contributors/:
> -) Here "Norton Commander" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Commander
Done.
> >> Regarding forums - I would leave a read-only copy somewhere just as a
> >> reference (no link from the main page).
> >
> > Agreed, also came to the conclusion that the forum is still a great
> > resource
> > of information, which we shouldn't just throw away. It's also ranked
> > in Google
> > pretty high. So i'll try to clean up the forum a bit, put it into a
> > spearate
> > database, and host it on a subdomain.
>
> Perhaps we could also move the content to the KDE forms [1]. They are
> also using phpBB so it shouldn't be too difficult to integrate our
> content. There are quite a few application specific boards already.
>
> [1] http://forum.kde.org/
Nice idea. I just don't know if the admins are willing to integrate an
(obviously) spam polluted database.
p.s.:
Just made a major cleanup of the forums, removing alot of spam and dead
accounts with 0 posts, but there's more for sure...
Dirk Eschler
> it to add manual control the slide show? It
> would be nice to stop the automatic image flow and show next/prev
> overlay-icons inside the image on mouse-over.
I've implemented the functionality. The original behaviour is restored on
mouseout. For the next/prev controls i've used the lightbox images, perhaps i
find some better ones, they are somewhat hard to distinct from the mostly
light coloured screenshot thumbnails.
Jan Lepper
Hi Dirk,
thanks for the new website ! Looks great!
Apart from what has already been suggested (keeping a read-only version the
old forum / moving it to forums.kde.org),
I suggest that instead of directly linking to the bugtracker,
we open a page that besides the link to the bugtracker also contains a notice
like "Please make sure that the bug you are reporting hasn't already been
fixed in git" and a link to the git changelog:
https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/utils/krusader/repository/revisions/master/entry/ChangeLog.
I also noticed that on the "Get Involved" page cmake is run
with -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr/ - shouldn't this be /usr/local ?
bye,
Jan
Dirk Eschler
Hi Jan,
> thanks for the new website ! Looks great!
glad you like it.
> Apart from what has already been suggested (keeping a read-only version the
> old forum / moving it to forums.kde.org),
> I suggest that instead of directly linking to the bugtracker,
> we open a page that besides the link to the bugtracker also contains a
> notice like "Please make sure that the bug you are reporting hasn't
> already been fixed in git" and a link to the git changelog:
> https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/utils/krusader/repository/revis
> ions/master/entry/ChangeLog.
The ChangeLog could indeed be more prominent. Currently it's only linked in
the release archive. Your suggestion is an option. I have to think about it...
> I also noticed that on the "Get Involved" page cmake is run
> with -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr/ - shouldn't this be /usr/local ?
Basically you are right. If i remember correctly an installation to /usr/local
raised some problems, like krarc not being found on some systems. I think
that's why we recommended installing to /usr. I don't know if the situation
has changed in the meantime, that could very well be a leftover from KDE3 (or
even KDE2) times.
Best Regrads,
Jan Lepper
On Wednesday 11 January 2012 17:15:31 Dirk Eschler wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 11. Januar 2012, 14:35:22 schrieb Jan Lepper:
>
> Hi Jan,
>
> > thanks for the new website ! Looks great!
>
> glad you like it.
>
> > Apart from what has already been suggested (keeping a read-only version
> > the old forum / moving it to forums.kde.org),
> > I suggest that instead of directly linking to the bugtracker,
> > we open a page that besides the link to the bugtracker also contains a
> > notice like "Please make sure that the bug you are reporting hasn't
> > already been fixed in git" and a link to the git changelog:
> > https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/utils/krusader/repository/rev
> >is ions/master/entry/ChangeLog.
>
> The ChangeLog could indeed be more prominent. Currently it's only linked in
> the release archive. Your suggestion is an option. I have to think about
> it...
>
> > I also noticed that on the "Get Involved" page cmake is run
> > with -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr/ - shouldn't this be /usr/local ?
>
> Basically you are right. If i remember correctly an installation to
> /usr/local raised some problems, like krarc not being found on some
> systems. I think that's why we recommended installing to /usr. I don't know
> if the situation has changed in the meantime, that could very well be a
> leftover from KDE3 (or even KDE2) times.
you are right, I now remember having this issue (krarc/iso not found) too.
It's fixed by adding /usr/local to the KDEDIRS envirtonment variable.
>
> Best Regrads,
> Dirk
>
> --
> Dirk Eschler <esc...@gmail.com>
bye,
Jan
Dirk Eschler
> old forum / moving it to forums.kde.org),
> I suggest that instead of directly linking to the bugtracker,
> we open a page that besides the link to the bugtracker also contains a
> notice like "Please make sure that the bug you are reporting hasn't
> already been fixed in git" and a link to the git changelog:
> https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/utils/krusader/repository/revis
> ions/master/entry/ChangeLog.
Heya Jan,
as you suggested i've added a new view for reporting bugs. It includes the
ChangeLog which is updated once a day.
http://django.krusader.org/report-bugs/
Best Regards,
Aeliya Grevnyov
> I've hosted a fully usable version of the new website here:
> http://django.krusader.org/
>
> Please let me know what you think.
Not Found
The requested URL
/media/releases/krusader-2.4.0-beta1/krusader-2.4.0-beta1.tar.bz2 was
not found on this server.
--
WBR,
Aeliya gray_graff Grevnev
Jan Lepper
> Am Mittwoch, 11. Januar 2012, 14:35:22 schrieb Jan Lepper:
> > Apart from what has already been suggested (keeping a read-only version
> > the old forum / moving it to forums.kde.org),
> > I suggest that instead of directly linking to the bugtracker,
> > we open a page that besides the link to the bugtracker also contains a
> > notice like "Please make sure that the bug you are reporting hasn't
> > already been fixed in git" and a link to the git changelog:
> > https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/utils/krusader/repository/rev
>
> Heya Jan,
>
> as you suggested i've added a new view for reporting bugs. It includes the
> ChangeLog which is updated once a day.
>
> http://django.krusader.org/report-bugs/
>
> Best Regards,
> Dirk
>
> --
> Dirk Eschler <esc...@gmail.com>
Hi Dirk,
nicely done :-)
Bye,
Jan
Dirk Eschler
> download links is not correct
>
> Not Found
> The requested URL
> /media/releases/krusader-2.4.0-beta1/krusader-2.4.0-beta1.tar.bz2 was
> not found on this server.
Thanks, i've changed the release downloads to use the SourceForge mirrors, as
we still have full access there.
BTW, does anyone know if extragear provides a similiar download service?
Yuri Chornoivan
> Am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2012, 06:37:11 schrieb Aeliya Grevnyov:
>> download links is not correct
>>
>> Not Found
>> The requested URL
>> /media/releases/krusader-2.4.0-beta1/krusader-2.4.0-beta1.tar.bz2 was
>> not found on this server.
>
> Thanks, i've changed the release downloads to use the SourceForge mirrors, as
> we still have full access there.
>
> BTW, does anyone know if extragear provides a similiar download service?
This service is provided by the git itself. The links for tags can be
constructed in a way, similar to the way for Konversation links on
this page:
http://userbase.kde.org/Konversation/Releases
Hope this helps.
Yuri
Dirk Eschler
> old forum / moving it to forums.kde.org),
Heya,
making the forum read-only wasn't as easy as expected. You can't simply
disable registrations and logins in phpbb. Nevertheless, i've hacked it down
to include only the required minimum functionality like the search. Hopefully
i haven't missed anything. Requests to registration, login and otherwise no
longer needed urls simply do a hard redirect to the forum index, which
includes a note that the forum has been closed. I've also included a new
overall header and footer to keep a seemless integration.
Hosted a version of the read-only forum here: http://forum.krusader.org
With that being done, i think we can make a switch to the new site now.
Frank Schoolmeesters
Frank