Handbook translations
Dirk Eschler
one of our users asked me to include a russian translation of the handbook. He
just started working on it and admitted that it'll be a slow process
(understandably).
Now i must regret, that i've never dealt with kde handbook translations. Do
they simply go into doc/<lang_code> and the Makefile will catch them up?
bye,
Dirk
--
Dirk Eschler <mailto:dirk.e...@gmx.net>
http://www.krusader.org
Frank Schoolmeesters
Here are some gidelines:
http://i18n.kde.org/docs/translation-howto/doc-files.html
For documentation translations it's actually comes close to GUI translations
-"xml2pot" creates the pot files templates
- with kbabel you translate it into po files
These files are comparable with the gui po files
- "po2xml" creates the translated docbook files.
On Debian "xml2pot" and "po2xml" is in the "poxml" package
http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/poxml
I must say that i don't have experiance with these tools,
and as a gui translation it's better to translate po files
and not the original docbook files,
so that the po files can be merged-updated against a current pot template for
documentation updates.
"update_xml" seems to be a kde script that does the merge-update job
http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/l10n/scripts/update_xml?rev=487164&view=log
Never used it eighter.
For testing i have done
$ xml2pot index.docbook > index.po
$ xml2pot konfigurator.docbook > konfigurator.pot
and added these files in attachment.
I have chosen konfigurator.docbook since it's a large file.
To add a russian translation
- krusader_kde3/doc/ru needs to be created + the russian docbook files
- In krusader_kde3/doc/Makefile.am "ru" must be added in the "SUBDIRS" line
In this diff the italian translation was added
http://krusader.cvs.sourceforge.net/krusader/krusader_kde3/doc/Makefile.am?r1=1.1&r2=1.2
It would also be nice if russian screenschots would replace the
englisch screenshots, though it requires some more makefile changes i
think to add a pics folder for russian screenshots.
btw. krusader_kde3/doc/it is outdated, i think it dates from krusader-1.0
and is not compiled anymore
http://krusader.cvs.sourceforge.net/krusader/krusader_kde3/doc/Makefile.am?r1=1.2&r2=1.3
It would aslo result in a compile error since these files are outdated.
btw2. probably in the future more docbook files will be created, to
make smaller docbook files that only talks about one subject.
I have started to work on this, but it's still work in progress.
Originally there where 8 docbook files, currently i have split them up
in 19 docbook files.
This allows also that more people can work at the same time at the
docs, when they update one specific docbook file and someone else
an other docbook file.
bye,
Frank
Dirk Eschler
> Hi Dirk,
>
> Here are some gidelines:
> http://i18n.kde.org/docs/translation-howto/doc-files.html
>
> For documentation translations it's actually comes close to GUI
> translations -"xml2pot" creates the pot files templates
> - with kbabel you translate it into po files
> These files are comparable with the gui po files
> - "po2xml" creates the translated docbook files.
>
> On Debian "xml2pot" and "po2xml" is in the "poxml" package
> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/poxml
> I must say that i don't have experiance with these tools,
> and as a gui translation it's better to translate po files
> and not the original docbook files,
> so that the po files can be merged-updated against a current pot template
> for documentation updates.
> "update_xml" seems to be a kde script that does the merge-update job
> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/l10n/scripts/update_xml?rev=487164&view=log
> Never used it eighter.
Thanks Frank, these are the tools he used. I asked him to join krusader-doc
and krusader-i18n. As a first step i think we should try to get a minimal
version of the translated doc to build and integrated. And once it works,
commit it.
Frank Schoolmeesters
Agreed.
And if everything works well maybe some other translators migh be
interested in doc translations.
bye,
Frank
Frank Schoolmeesters
I have added the Russian handbook in cvs.
http://krusader.cvs.sourceforge.net/krusader/krusader_kde3/doc/ru/
Please let me know if you encounter compile problems,
though it's a minior change and i think it will not cause problems.
If this handbook works properly i will provide the pot files for other
handbook translators.
bye,
Frank
Richard/g
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > Thanks Frank, these are the tools he used. I asked him
> > > to join krusader-doc and krusader-i18n. As a first step
> > > i think we should try to get a minimal version of the
> > > translated doc to build and integrated. And once it
> > > works, commit it.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dirk Eschler <mailto:dirk.e...@gmx.net>
> > > http://www.krusader.org
> >
> > Agreed.
> > And if everything works well maybe some other translators
> > migh be interested in doc translations.
> >
> > bye,
> >
> > Frank
>
> I have added the Russian handbook in cvs.
> http://krusader.cvs.sourceforge.net/krusader/krusader_kde3/
> problems, though it's a minior change and i think it will
> not cause problems. If this handbook works properly i will
> provide the pot files for other handbook translators.
>
> bye,
>
> Frank
Hi Frank,
Compile stopped for me. But had a lots of stuff running.
Reboot. Download again from cvs and compile, this time:
*** Creating aclocal.m4
/usr/share/aclocal/xdelta.m4:7: warning: underquoted
definition of AM_PATH_XDELTA
run info '(automake)Extending aclocal'
or see
http://sources.redhat.com/automake/automake.html#Extending-aclocal
*** Creating configure
*** Creating config.h template
*** Creating Makefile templates
doc/Makefile.am:3: required directory doc/ru does not exist
make[1]: *** [cvs] Error 1
make: *** [all] Error 2
richard@KanoBox:/usr/src/krusader$
Any ideas? Maybe it is somehing I did?
It compiled three days ago. Currently running
krusader_1.70.1.20061031.1505-1
Biggest problems are still crashes using F3.
Hopefully the KDE folks will fix it one day.
regards,
Richard.
Heiner
On Friday 03 November 2006 19:57, Richard/g wrote:
> doc/Makefile.am:3: required directory doc/ru does not exist
Works fine here. The doc/ru directory is quite new. Do you have developer
access? If so check out again. If not wait some hours until the files are in
the anonymous checkout.
Heiner
Dirk Eschler
> Hi Frank,
>
> Compile stopped for me. But had a lots of stuff running.
> Reboot. Download again from cvs and compile, this time:
>
> *** Creating aclocal.m4
> /usr/share/aclocal/xdelta.m4:7: warning: underquoted
> definition of AM_PATH_XDELTA
> run info '(automake)Extending aclocal'
> or see
> http://sources.redhat.com/automake/automake.html#Extending-aclocal
> *** Creating configure
> *** Creating config.h template
> *** Creating Makefile templates
> doc/Makefile.am:3: required directory doc/ru does not exist
> make[1]: *** [cvs] Error 1
> make: *** [all] Error 2
> richard@KanoBox:/usr/src/krusader$
>
> Any ideas? Maybe it is somehing I did?
> It compiled three days ago. Currently running
> krusader_1.70.1.20061031.1505-1
Try "make -f Makefile.cvs" before you compile.
Frank: this doesn't seem to work as expected. Launching krusader with
KDE_LANG=ru still shows the english handbook. As far as i understand
the "Note from the Editors" is supposed to be in russian already, but it's
english here.
Richard/g
> Am Freitag, 3. November 2006 19:57 schrieb Richard/g:
> > Hi Frank,
> >
> > Compile stopped for me. But had a lots of stuff running.
> > Reboot. Download again from cvs and compile, this time:
Did a clean checkout and the compile is running.
Sorry for the bother.
Richard.
Heiner
> Frank: this doesn't seem to work as expected. Launching krusader with
> KDE_LANG=ru still shows the english handbook. As far as i understand
> the "Note from the Editors" is supposed to be in russian already, but it's
> english here.
Good morning!
On my KDE I have installed the german i18n, but I do not use them: Control
Center->Regional & Accessibility->Country/Region & Language->Locale does not
show german in the langauge list. If I set KDE_LANG to de and start kwrite or
kbabel, both are in german, but the documentation is still english, although
the trabnslated docbook files are installed! I think it's some undocumented,
weired KDE magic here!
So I installed the russian i18n, added russian in the dialog above, restarted
KDE, started krusader and - voila - the documentation is russian! So it's not
Franks fault but just KDE becomming more and more windowish...
Just:
- in the documentation just the first chapter was russian
- in the first chapter some strings like "chapter" and "package" are still
english
- in the first chapter the blue area on the bottom is still english.
I compared with kwrite: Here "chapter" and "package" were russian, but the
blue text is english as well. A KDE bug I think.
The "chapter" issue is probably caused by the not translated line
<!ENTITY % English "INCLUDE">
in index.docbook.
A final question: were is the russian documentation .po file in cvs?
Good work so far
Heiner
Frank Schoolmeesters
>
> On Friday 03 November 2006 20:42, Dirk Eschler wrote:
> > Frank: this doesn't seem to work as expected. Launching krusader with
> > KDE_LANG=ru still shows the english handbook. As far as i understand
> > the "Note from the Editors" is supposed to be in russian already, but it's
> > english here.
>
> Good morning!
>
> On my KDE I have installed the german i18n, but I do not use them: Control
> Center->Regional & Accessibility->Country/Region & Language->Locale does not
> show german in the langauge list. If I set KDE_LANG to de and start kwrite or
> kbabel, both are in german, but the documentation is still english, although
> the trabnslated docbook files are installed! I think it's some undocumented,
> weired KDE magic here!
>
Is there a weird kde hack to solve it? :-)
> So I installed the russian i18n, added russian in the dialog above, restarted
> KDE, started krusader and - voila - the documentation is russian! So it's not
> Franks fault but just KDE becomming more and more windowish...
>
> Just:
>
> - in the documentation just the first chapter was russian
The russian documentation is work in progress, i commited it in cvs
to test the i18n of the documentation.
Currently
- editors-note.docbook.po
- faq.docbook.po
- help.docbook.po
- index.docbook.po
- introduction.docbook.po
are translated (except a few fuzzy and untranslated messages).
New doc translations should be e.g. > 40% translated before comitting in cvs.
The russian docs is a "proof of concept" where only a few pages are
currently translated.
> - in the first chapter some strings like "chapter" and "package" are still
> english
> - in the first chapter the blue area on the bottom is still english.
>
> I compared with kwrite: Here "chapter" and "package" were russian, but the
> blue text is english as well. A KDE bug I think.
>
> The "chapter" issue is probably caused by the not translated line
>
> <!ENTITY % English "INCLUDE">
>
> in index.docbook.
>
This <!ENTITY % English "INCLUDE">
is discussed on [Krusader-i18n] in the "Russian handbook" tread at Oct 28.
For the moment i leave it into "English", later on it well be changed
into "Russian".
btw. for the moment 99,9% of the handbook can be translated,
i have used much <!ENTITY ...> in index.docbook and these issues are
currently not translatable.
I could remove these entities in index.docbook and fix all docbook files,
or search for an other solution that <!ENTITY ...> becomes translatable
(but for the moment i don't know a solution for this).
***************************
...
I found a small issue, i don't consider it as important,
but i prefer to report it.
Changing "English"
<!ENTITY % English "INCLUDE">
in index.docbook into "Russian" doesn't work on my system because
Entity 'Backspace' seems not to be translated into russian (this must
be done by the russian translation team of kde)
----------------
/usr/bin/meinproc --check --cache index.cache.bz2 ./index.docbook
keyboard.docbook:311: parser error : Entity 'Backspace' not defined
-----------------
So i leave it into English.
If it works entities like
- &LMB; Left mouse button
- &RMB; Right mouse button
- &Backspace;
would be displayed/translated right away into russian without the need
to translate it.
In these files you will find: LMB, RMB, ... but Backspace seems to be
missing in the russian user.entities
/usr/share/apps/ksgmltools2/customization/en/user.entities
/usr/share/apps/ksgmltools2/customization/ru/user.entities
I'm using Debian Testing (KDE: 3.5.4)
thanks and bye,
Frank
***************************
> A final question: were is the russian documentation .po file in cvs?
>
Added in cvs a few moments ago
http://krusader.cvs.sourceforge.net/krusader/krusader_kde3/doc/i18n/ru/
and the pot templates
http://krusader.cvs.sourceforge.net/krusader/krusader_kde3/doc/i18n/pot/
I think it's better to wait a few days before lanching a doc translation call,
since i18n-docs is brandnew (though, it should work :-)
That's the reason why i did not yet committed yet po/pot in cvs.
An other small issue is that it's difficult to call a doc string
freeze for the docs
(when we release a beta) , since it's already hard enough to keep the
english docs up-to-date, except if there are more doc writers
available to share the workload.
>
> Good work so far
Thanks
> Heiner
>
thanks all for the feedback,
and Roman Batejkin for the russian translation of the docs.
Frank
Dirk Eschler
> On 11/4/06, Heiner <h.eic...@gmx.de> wrote:
> > On my KDE I have installed the german i18n, but I do not use them:
> > Control Center->Regional & Accessibility->Country/Region &
> > Language->Locale does not show german in the langauge list. If I set
> > KDE_LANG to de and start kwrite or kbabel, both are in german, but the
> > documentation is still english, although the trabnslated docbook files
> > are installed! I think it's some undocumented, weired KDE magic here!
>
> Is there a weird kde hack to solve it? :-)
You mean a hack for the hack? Usually KDE_LANG is considered to be one. :)
Frank Schoolmeesters
>
> Am Samstag, 4. November 2006 13:18 schrieb Frank Schoolmeesters:
> > On 11/4/06, Heiner <h.eic...@gmx.de> wrote:
> > > On my KDE I have installed the german i18n, but I do not use them:
> > > Control Center->Regional & Accessibility->Country/Region &
> > > Language->Locale does not show german in the langauge list. If I set
> > > KDE_LANG to de and start kwrite or kbabel, both are in german, but the
> > > documentation is still english, although the trabnslated docbook files
> > > are installed! I think it's some undocumented, weired KDE magic here!
> >
> > Is there a weird kde hack to solve it? :-)
>
> You mean a hack for the hack?
>
Maybe some other *acacabra* displays the docs in their native language.
>Usually KDE_LANG is considered to be one. :)
Is this behavior a kde bug?
Frank
Dirk Eschler
The official way to change the language in KDE, is to set the locale in
kcontrol.
If Heiner can't choose the german locale in kcontrol, something must be wrong
with his kde-i18n installation.
Jonas Bähr
You could try to manipulate the config-file directly.
~/.kde/share/config/kdeglobals
[Locale]
Country=de
Language=de_DE
bye,
Jonas
Frank Schoolmeesters
Hi,
I have changed the Russian index.docbook as test
in cvs (the file is also in attachment).
http://krusader.cvs.sourceforge.net/krusader/krusader_kde3/doc/ru/index.docbook?r1=1.2&r2=1.3
http://krusader.cvs.sourceforge.net/krusader/krusader_kde3/doc/ru/index.docbook?view=log
------------------------------------
For a test:
<!ENTITY % English "INCLUDE"> changed to Russian
and added <!ENTITY Backspace "<keycap>Backspace</keycap>"> in index.docbook
since the Entity Backspace is not defined in
/usr/share/apps/ksgmltools2/customization/ru/user.entities on KDE: 3.5.4
I have not added yet ENTITY Backspace in the english index.docbook file yet
This change will overrule the Backspace enity in
/usr/share/apps/ksgmltools2/customization/*/user.entities
------------------------------------
Please test on your computer (normally it should work ;) .
thanks and bye,
Frank
Heiner
On Saturday 04 November 2006 21:57, Jonas Bähr wrote:
> Am 04.11.2006 um 20:22 schrieb Dirk Eschler:
> > If Heiner can't choose the german locale in kcontrol, something
> > must be wrong
> > with his kde-i18n installation.
I can not choose german, because a deleted it from the Country/Region &
Language dialog. Therefore I have an english KDE, but all german files are
installed. So I can test switching between languages. The result was, that
KDE_LANG indeed switches the languages, but only for the application itself.
The documentation remains english. To switch it too, I have to add the
language to the Country/Region & Language dialog. This is bad, as everthing
is russian afterwards. So I can test, that krusader russian documentation
works, but switching back to english is hard, as everything is russian :-)
> You could try to manipulate the config-file directly.
> ~/.kde/share/config/kdeglobals
> [Locale]
> Country=de
> Language=de_DE
This seems to be a better approach, but it works only once! I changed Language
to ru and opened the documentation: russian! Then I changed Language back to
en_US. The documentation is still russian. Even closing all konqueror
instances and restarting krusader did not help. I had to restart KDE to get
the english documentation back. So this is still no good way to quickly test,
if all translated documentations will show up!
Heiner
Heiner
On Sunday 05 November 2006 07:43, Frank Schoolmeesters wrote:
> <!ENTITY % English "INCLUDE"> changed to Russian
> and added <!ENTITY Backspace "<keycap>Backspace</keycap>"> in
> index.docbook since the Entity Backspace is not defined in
> /usr/share/apps/ksgmltools2/customization/ru/user.entities on KDE: 3.5.4
> I have not added yet ENTITY Backspace in the english index.docbook file yet
> This change will overrule the Backspace enity in
> /usr/share/apps/ksgmltools2/customization/*/user.entities
This is in my eyes a kde bug. What should happen there is:
- the doc maintainer adds the Backspace entity to user.entities
- the translation maintainer creates a .po file from it
- the russian translater translates it, but obviously forgot to
translate "Backspace"
- the translation maintainer creates the russian user.entities from it. It
mainly consists of entities translated into the russian. But as "Bacxkspace"
was not translated, it should contain "Backspace" in its english version.
This did not happen and this is in my eyes a bug!
Fixing it in our russian index.docbook is in my eyes not a good idea. I think
you fixed it directly, i.e. without going through a .pot file, right?
I would add "Backspace" to the english index.docbook, so that all doc
translators can translate it through the .pot files. It covers the definition
in user.entities, but as this is bogus, overiding is imho ok. If one
day "Backspace" is correctly handled in all languages of user.entities, you
can remove it from index.docbook.
> Please test on your computer (normally it should work ;) .
Works fine here.
Heiner
PS.: I realized, that all team members in the first page of the doc have a
title, except yourself, Frank! Is that intended? Or is there a "head of
documentation" or s.th. like that missing?
Frank Schoolmeesters
i have changed now the english index.docbook as well.
I agree, it's only a workaround for the moment.
Unfortunately ENTITY of index.docbook doesn't show up in the
index.docbook.pot file, when using xml2po.
So ENTITY issues are currently not translated, all the other 99,9% is
translatable.
This needs to be fixed in the future, but it's a minor issue and
I don't know yet howto create translatable entities
(except simply remove all my entities in index.docbook).
> > Please test on your computer (normally it should work ;) .
>
> Works fine here.
Great.
>
> Heiner
>
> PS.: I realized, that all team members in the first page of the doc have a
> title, except yourself, Frank! Is that intended? Or is there a "head of
> documentation" or s.th. like that missing?
>
I know, i have fixed it now with a workaround,
somehow the <author> tag does not show a title on the indexpage,
i use now <othercredit> for me.
http://krusader.cvs.sourceforge.net/krusader/krusader_kde3/doc/en/index.docbook?r1=1.111&r2=1.112
thanks and bye,
Frank