DC: Date & Place, Finalizing

[aelphaba]

What I'm thinking, just running it by you in a "thinking-out-loud-
before-I-contact-her" way is emailing the woman at American University
and asking for three class room meeting spaces near each other ($25-
$30/hr) for either June 21st, July 12, or July 19th (all Sundays)*.

So...

Place: American University (Tenleytown metro, red line)

Date: June 21st, July 12th, or July 19th (Sundays)

Time: 9 - 5 (8:30 - 5:30 set up)

Cost: $225 - 270 / room = $675 - $810 total Probably closer to $810,
because Ward class rooms are the ones equipped with AV and they're the
ones we're going to want.

Now, the big question:

How do we work out money?

[maymay]

Briefly, is there any reason why June 21st is not going to work? Why
are there suddenly other dates on the table? Those other Sundays are
much later, and June 21st is still 2 months away.

If you can still do so, I'd like to see those rooms you saw reserved
for June 21st.

As for money, what do you need? We begin to work that out by knowing
what we need to do, and then figuring out how to do it, so let us know
(privately if necessary) what you need from other people to help you
make June 21st at American University happen. Is an advance deposit
necessary? If so, how much? Etc.

-M
(Terse email sent from my iPod.)

[Amy G.]

June 21st is still the first choice. The other Sundays are just back ups.
I left a message on the woman at AU's voicemail over my lunch, and followed up with an email, asking things such as the advanced deposit, etc. Also expressed interest in June 21st, three classrooms, and asked her what format she needs the money in.
When I hear back from her - which will hopefully be today or tomorrow, I'd like to get this wrapped up this week - I'll forward the answers to the KinkforAll group.

Amy

[maymay]

Sweet, thanks Amy!

As a reminder, please remember this list is public so don't include your venue contact's personal details when you forward responses from them unless you know ahead of time that doing so is okay by them.

-M

(Terse email sent from my iPod.)

[aelphaba]

Haven't heard back from American yet.

Will update when I have.

[aelphaba]

Response from the contact at American

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: American University
Date: Tue, May 5, 2009 at 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: Summer Meeting Space at AU
To: "Amy R. Grenier" <argr...@gmail.com>



Hi Amy,

Thanks for your email & voice mail message. I've followed up to all of
your questions below. If you need anything else, or would like to move
forward with a meeting space request, please let me know.

Best,
Erin

- Food: If our participants bring there own sandwiches/small snacks
for food on an individual basis, is this permissible? I know that back
when I was in college this was a gray area due to catering contracts.
American: This is fine. As long as the food isn't boughten into the
dining facility (which I'm sure wouldn't be the case) then we don't
mind.

- Money: What is the deposit / or is it all up front and when is it
due? What format (check or credit card, for example)? American: We
request a 40% deposit at the time the contract is signed and that can
be paid by check or credit card.

- Dates: Are any of these dates available: June 21st, July 11th or
12th, or July 18th or 19th?
American: The best dates for us would be July 18 or 19. If this works
for you, I can move forward with checking availability.

- Rooms: We would be interested in a Class Room Meeting Space - would
there be any way to do one Ward room 3-6 and two "All Other
Classrooms"? Would they be in the same building?
American: Sure, most likely we would be able to meet that request.

[Paul]

Hi Amy,

Great work. What is the total cost they want for the space.

Paul.

[maymay]

On May 5, 2009, at 5:38 PM, aelphaba wrote:

> Response from the contact at American

Sweet, thanks Amy.

Like Paul, I'd like to know what the total cost of the rooms we are
reserving are so we can calculate what a 40% deposit would look like.
It sounds like Paul's excellent fundraising efforts puts us well in
the clear for something like that, which is wonderful.

Also, though American University seems to say that a date in July
would "work best" for them, I'm still eager to see KinkForAll
Washington DC happen in sooner, in June (21st). Any way we can keep
leaning on AU to get us that date, please?

Finally, I wanted to let you and the rest of the DC crowd know
(possibly again) that I am going to be at Sex 2.0 this coming weekend,
and may find means to stay in town for an extra few days. This is a
great opportunity for me to help out with any physical legwork that
needs doing. I will be on the lookout for that myself but also don't
hesitate to ask me! For instance, I'd love to see the American
University classrooms and if there are any events happening on Friday,
Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday (Sat. is the conference) during the day or
evening, I'd love to go to them and talk up KinkForAll Washington DC,
too.

Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay

[aelphaba]

While having KFA sooner would be ideal, and I will certainly pass that
on to Erin (along with the question of what the total cost would be),
I really do not have a problem with KinkForAll happening in July, for
the following reasons:

- In June, there is a major event for the LGBT or BDSM community every
weekend except for that one. If you crowd too many major events into
one month, people will be less than enthusiastic to go to yet another
one.
- July gives us more time to really advertise and reach out to the
LGBT community. As the LGBT community is currently gearing up and
preparing for pride, few people/organizations that are active in the
community will want to even think beyond Pride for the rest of this
month.
- Several of the people that have contacted me (who I have of course
directed to this community), people who are very active in the local
sex positive scene, have noted that June is a busy month for them.

re:
events on Friday, Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday (Sat. is the conference)

during the day or
evening

the only thing that I can think of is that it is Dungeon 101 on
Friday, but they probably would not appreciate the advert in that
venue, and we can reach a similar crowd in other ways.

re:
visiting American
If you would like Erin's contact information to talk to her about
going to see the class rooms, let me know. She was receptive to me
doing so, but I cannot take off work to go visit the class rooms
during the day.

[maymay]

Hi everyone. An update on KinkForAll Washington DC's venue efforts.

* Communication between us and American University is painfully slow,
but moving forward. I know Amy's tried calling them a number of times
over the past couple of weeks and today I tried as well but didn't get
through. American University say June 21st may not work, but they say
that "depends" on what we need, which is kind of unhelpful. So again,
until we can actually talk to them more, this is kind of at a
standstill. Since this now needs more prompt attention, I'm making
more phone calls today.

* Partially for venue option reasons and partially for participatory
reasons, I've sent an email to WholeDC.com in an effort to open a
dialogue between myself and the people there.

As Amy mentions below, if June 21st at American University falls
through, then that won't be a tragedy, just a change of plans. :) That
said, I think we're more likely to get *any* date if we keep trying
for June 21st and have to postpone than if we try for a later date in
the first place.

As always, more details as further options become available.

IN THE MEAN TIME, please keep talking about KinkForAll Washington DC
with your friends, and your friends' friends, and especially people
involved in communities that you are not a part of. Rule of averages:
the more participation there is the more likely everything will fall
into place easily. :)

Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay

[maymay]

Aha! Brief update: I got in touch with our American University contact
on the phone and have scheduled an appointment to meet with them and
physically see the spaces they have available for us tomorrow
(Tuesday) at 2 PM. Details should be forthcoming tomorrow.

[maymay]

All,

I managed to visit the American University (AU) events coordination
staff personally today and I got a lot of information. I also saw the
potential venue space physically and it eased a lot of my concerns.
Here is a run down of all the issues as they currently stand along
with the information I obtained from the events coordination staff at
American University:

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:

American University (AU) is a fantastic venue. Their rooms are large,
much larger than we had for KinkForAll New York City, and a "30
person" room can actually accommodate more like 50 people without
strain. Further, AU has spacious "free spaces" which are publicly
accessible and available for us for use as "social rooms". One such
space even includes a Fair Trade certified café—what luxury! We can
further reduce costs by not relying on any of AU's audio/visual
equipment, which does not serve our needs anyway. For three rooms (50
people each + free social spaces, so probably more than enough) we are
looking at a $75/hr rental, which is very cheap. Our only outstanding
issues are Internet connectivity (discussed below), availability, and
insurance paperwork (discussed below).

AMERICAN UNIVERSITY FACILITIES:

* CAPACITY PLANNING: The AU facilities are extremely spacious. The
*smallest* room they showed me ("25 person capacity) is approximately
the size of the largest room we had for KinkForAll New York City,
which we booked as a "75 person" room. AU said that they list their
rooms by number of chairs in the room, not by square footage. This
means that their cheapest rooms ($25/hr) are much larger than we were
expecting and thus very usable. I estimate, and AU confirmed, that if
we have ~200 people show up at one time, we can comfortably
accommodate all participants with 3 "25 or 30 person" rooms. (How's
that for crazy advertising?)
* COSTS FOR SPACE AND AMENITIES: AU offers a number of additional
services for groups such as ours, and we need absolutely *none* of
them. They offer food service, but also have a Fair Trade certified
café on campus about 2 minutes walk from the two buildings I looked
at. They offer projectors, but no recording services—so we might as
well not use them and do things ourselves anyway. This means that,
like last time, we'll need to provide our own A/V equipment, but in
NYC we actually ended up with 4 projectors and only 3 rooms, so I
think we can supply ourselves just fine as long as we get the word
out.
* ACCESSIBILITY: All except one of the rooms I looked at was 100% ADA
accessible. This is actually a pretty cool bonus. I really want to see
KinkForAll be as accessible as possible to *everyone,* including
people with greater physical challenges than I have.
* There was a private concern expressed to me about protesters, and so
I asked about AU's security staff. They were very reassuring and
offered me contact with their Public Safety department. I was also
explicit with regards to the kinds of information and unconference
this is: sexual freedom and information about how alternative
sexuality intersects with other aspects of life, and they didn't blink
an eye. They were extremely friendly, and one of the staff members I
spoke with even brightened at a mention of feminist politics. (Trey
cool.)
* INTERNET ACCESS: The people I spoke with were non-technical, and so
I could not get a lot of information about them on this front.
However, I checked out their Wi-Fi network on my own and discovered a
CCA agent there; in other words, they have a pretty beefy system. It
is unlikely they will allow anyone access to the network without pre-
registering them, which means either we'll have zero Internet access
provided by the University and we'll have to make our own (like we did
for KinkForAll New York City, by the way), or we'll get *some* access
from them and we'll have to rely on our own skill to create a subnet
we can share. I was very transparent with them about what I wanted to
do. The plan is this:
1. Register specific people, maybe 4 to 10 people, who can bring a
spare laptop computer (and security cable) and get these laptops
online with the University's Wi-Fi network.
2. Bring spare routers and hubs to NAT and then re-broadcast the
University's signal as our own, separate Wi-Fi network (probably with
the SSID "KinkForAll Washington DC" so it's obvious).
3. All traffic from KFA participant endpoints gets routed through
our own subnet and reaches the Internet that way. It's an incestuous
network, but that's sort of what we did for KFANYC and it worked
really well. Again, we just need *permission* from the University to
do this.
* INSURANCE WAIVER: AU requires us to sign an insurance liability
waiver of some kind. I have *zero* details about this but am expecting
an email from the AU event staff very shortly. Details are below,
under "outstanding issues."
* DATE/TIME AND AVAILABILITY OF SPACE: The AU venue is very busy
during the entire month of June and the majority of July. Sadly, what
this means is that all of our preferred dates are "busy times." In
other words, it would be no easier for them to get us a July date than
it would be to get us a June date. As a result, I emphasized that I'd
like to push for a June date and simply keep options open for later
dates. This is not a tragedy, as Amy mentioned in a previous email.
However, in order to get the ball rolling and build much-needed
momentum as quickly as possible, I'd like to provide as much detail as
possible about what is going on the KFADC wiki page, so I've updated
it to reflect this course of action. Naturally, it will be updated
again when we get more details from the venue.

OUTSTANDING ISSUES are as follows:

* INTERNET ACCESS: AU is not certain that they can provide Wi-Fi for
us to *share.* They strongly prefer having pre-registered users.
However, they are going to look into the possibility of allowing us to
share our Internet connections by creating our own subnet. I can
manage the technicalities of this (it's really not that complicated at
all), but I will need some equipment. Please take a look at the Needs
list[0] on the KFADC page for details about what I need for this and
please spread the word and/or bring some of this equipment yourself if
you can.
* INSURANCE WAIVER: It's frustrating, but in all our discussion with
AU we haven't heard a peep about needing an insurance waiver until
now. Now they tell us we need to get some form of insurance firm to
cover liability. I have no idea what this process looks like or how
much it costs, but am expecting an email from the event staff at AU in
short order. If this is prohibitively expensive, we'll have to either
scrap AU as a venue (a pretty big setback), or we'll need to find more
sources of funding (easily doable; I've already spoken with three
individuals who all eagerly said they'd help donate).

FINANCIALS: In order to make it more clear as to what people will be
donating to if we need the money, I've updated the KFADC financials
spreadsheet with an estimate of our costs. Please have a look at it
and share the link. (You can even subscribe to an RSS feed of budget
and funding updates; please do!) That link is here:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pteUu99T2NougObhuDtM_KA

American University asks for this insurance waiver *at time of
contract signing* which means this is a pre-event cost. American
University then asks for a 40% deposit on the room rental costs, again
a pre-event cost. Then, AU will invoice the contract signee (which may
be me, or it may be one of the other unorganizers) for the remainder
of the room fees the day after the event. Again, please keep a close
eye on the KFADC financials spreadsheet[1] to see how our financial
situation is developing. (Unorganizers, namely Paul who has helped
with money so far, please be CERTAIN you keep this spreadsheet up to
date AT ALL TIMES.) Again, that link is here:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pteUu99T2NougObhuDtM_KA

AVAILABILITY: Again, we're not certain what times AU can give us
space. An email from them is forthcoming. In the mean time, I'm
choosing to move forward with AU because the space they might provide
is just so freaking perfect for what we're trying to do (and we
currently have no better option). I really liked it, it's easy to get
to, and they were *extremely* positive and helpful—even personally
excited.

IN THE MEAN TIME: As you can see, this is a shit ton of work. I mean,
like, damn, I really need help, and I'm sure Amy feels similarly. If
you can provide a helping hand with any kind of information, please
speak up. If you can't, please ask your friends if they know anything
or know anyone that can help (I could really use an insurance lawyer
to help me look over all of this insurance waiver stuff). Get your
friends to sign up on this mailing list so they can see what we're up
to. Subscribe to the Financials spreadsheet to see what we need more
money for, if anything. Donate if you can, and encourage others to do
the same. Build the buzz by being ballsy—it's fun. :)

As always, if there are any questions or concerns, or clarifications
you'd like me to make, please speak up as well. Remember YAGNI[2], and
focus on moving us forward.

Cheers,

-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay

EXTERNAL REFERENCES:

[0] http://kinkforall.pbworks.com/KinkForAllWashingtonDC#Needslist
[1] http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pteUu99T2NougObhuDtM_KA
[2] http://kinkforall.pbworks.com/OrganizeALocalKinkForAll#AvoidingUnnecessaryEffortYouArentGonnaNeedIt

[Stephanie Olmstead-Dean]

If this helps any, the LARP group I work with uses Francis L. Dean &
Associates insurance. They insure by the event, rather than the year,
and we usually pay about $300 per event.

http://www.fdean.com/

Stephanie

[maymay]

On May 12, 2009, at 5:59 PM, Stephanie Olmstead-Dean wrote:

> If this helps any, the LARP group I work with uses Francis L. Dean &
> Associates insurance. They insure by the event, rather than the year,
> and we usually pay about $300 per event.
>
> http://www.fdean.com/
>
> Stephanie

Thank you, Stephanie! I'm about to get on a bus so I have to shut off
my WiFi but I'll see about looking into this insurance company very
soon. (Yet another thing to add to my to do list.)

When I get the information from American University about what we need
to insure for, exactly, do you think you can help me connect the dots
with what's available at http://fdean.com or do you know someone who
might be good at doing that? Feel free to contact me off-list with
contact details if that's more appropriate.

Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay

> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 5:53 PM, maymay <bitethea...@gmail.com>

[Stephanie Olmstead-Dean]

Simply put, we probably need conference insurance, or special event
insurance. If you call or e-mail the company, they will send you an
application. I'd be more than happy to help fill out the forms. :-)

Stephanie

[David Phillips]

I'm glad to hear things are moving along with KFADC, and I'm eager to pitch in once I get past this coming weekend and through most of my coming move across the Potomac.  Still, I hope that the event can push beyond June 21, as the preceding weekend is Capital Pride; and many of the local connected LGBTQ folks and allies who might otherwise be interested in KFADC may still be in recovery mode.

Namaste,

David

[maymay]

David,

This is a point Amy brought up, too, and it's a good one. We don't
know what American University will come back with in terms of dates
yet, but we are keeping July dates as a definite possibility for a
number of reasons, and the concerns you raise are one of those reasons.

As always, more details will come as we get them. :)

In the mean time, talking to your local LGBTQ contacts would be an
amazing help! I was really thrilled to see a very LGBTQ-heavy presence
at KFANYC and I sincerely hope the same thing happens for KFADC.
Personally, I think we need the LGBTQ people. And I know that,
personally, they are some of my greatest inspirations.

[Chris !]

Hi Everyone,

Just to introduce myself, I recently joined on as an unorganizer for Kink For All DC.  I have been pretty active in the local kink and queer scene, and am very excited about this event!

In reference to the date of the event, I should note that I and a number of other unorganizers would not be able to attend the event if it was held after the 21st (maymay included).  Clearly, part of the point is that nobody is indispensable, but it is something to keep in mind...

I look forward to working with you all!

Chris

[maymay]

On May 12, 2009, at 8:27 PM, Chris ! wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> Just to introduce myself, I recently joined on as an unorganizer for
> Kink For All DC. I have been pretty active in the local kink and
> queer scene, and am very excited about this event!

Hey Chris,

I'm glad you've made it onto the list at last! I've been seeing your
edits on the wiki—thanks for the edits and for exploring how to make
the wiki better. Wiki editing is like gardening; requires lots of
patience, a big-picture view, and can be lots of fun. :) if you feel
really meta, help me make the "how to edit the wiki" wiki pages[0]
even better, too:

http://kinkforall.pbworks.com/UsingTheKinkForAllWiki

> In reference to the date of the event, I should note that I and a
> number of other unorganizers would not be able to attend the event
> if it was held after the 21st (maymay included). Clearly, part of
> the point is that nobody is indispensable, but it is something to
> keep in mind...
>
> I look forward to working with you all!
> Chris

So, yeah, date and venue kind of come hand in hand. If we get a good
date, we can use that to find a good venue. If we get a good venue, we
can use that to find a good date. We seem to have gone the venue route
this time (i.e., nailing down a venue first and then fining an
appropriate date that works for the venue), and we went the date route
with KFANYC (we publicized a date before we even had a venue!).

Both methods work and they both have their pros and cons.

Also, yes, I'm probably going to be on the West coast after the end of
June, and that's one reason I am trying to see June 21st happen for
KinkForAll Washington DC, but if my presence makes or breaks this
event, then I'll have failed. I know I've spoken to *you* about this,
Chris, but since this is a public forum I figured I'd reiterate my
words to you in public for the benefit of anyone else listening:

I want to be at KinkForAll Washington DC, sure, but more than that I
want to *enable* other people to do the kinds of things I'm doing now.
The way I know how to do that best is leading by example. So if you're
on this list and you're thinking about how you can help, just see what
myself and the other active and transparent unorganizers are up to
(I'm kind of frighteningly easy to track) and then do as I do. What
makes an unorganizer an unorganizer is *action,* not *title.* The more
people *doing* things the more gets done; it's as simple as that.

I've seen a lot of sign ups on the KFADC page with participation
listed as "unorganize" but so far only a fraction of those people have
taken any other step. And that's fine; you can do however much you
want to do or feel that you can do. No unorganizer gets treated
differently from any other participant, and every participant can help
organize regardless of what they call themselves. I.e., being an
"unorganizer" merely means that you're taking responsibility for
things *beyond* yourself *upon* yourself.

I'm choosing to take a lot of responsibility for KinkForAll Washington
DC because a first event in a new place is always a bit harder to make
happen than a second or a third. (People will much more easily jump on
board with a project they see it making progress than they will start
one themselves.) Case in point, I'm not really involved in
unorganizing the KinkForAll New York City 2 event because, well, there
are enough folks in NYC who have experienced what this is like and
want to make it happen again, and they know the details as to how.

I'm actively involved in KFADC because people in the DC area, notably
Amy and Paul, showed their own initiative to start something and asked
me for support. Like parts of our wiki say, KinkForAll is as much
about support and community as it is about information and educational
unconferences.

So the point is…if I can't make it to KFADC because I'm on the West
coast, oh well. But hey, that's *precisely* why I want to make sure
you guys have a solid Internet set up, so I can follow all your tweets
and liveblogging and join the KFADC chatroom (once we make one) and
all of that good stuff. :) I will put the most effort into the things
I think will be the most valuable for me. I want *you* to put the most
effort into the things you think will be most valuable for you. Our
challenge is to consistently find only win-win situations, not
settlements, and I strongly believe that with the tools we have
available today, there is very little need to play zero-sum games.
THAT's collaboration.

If you haven't seen it yet, you guys might find Clay Shirky's TED
Talk[1] video about exactly this topic very interesting:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/clay_shirky_on_institutions_versus_collaboration.html

Hope this makes sense…. It's late and I'm on a bus. And now I'm going
back to work on my day job stuff. Later I'll see if I can't move some
of this stuff in to the KFA Unorganizer's Guide[2] wiki pages. Helping
me do that is always appreciated, as well. ;)

Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay

EXTERNAL REFERENCES:

[0] http://kinkforall.pbworks.com/UsingTheKinkForAllWiki
[1] http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/clay_shirky_on_institutions_versus_collaboration.html
[2] http://kinkforall.pbworks.com/OrganizeALocalKinkForAll

[Lolita Wolf]

In case you want to shop around, LLC uses this insurance agent for its events:

Joel S Gleason AAI - Gleason & Associates
4421 East-West Hwy, Bethesda, Maryland 20814
o.301-654-7207          fx.301-654-7209

Lolita

--
Lolita, speaking only for Lolita
http://www.leatheryenta.com

[Sarah Taub]

Hi everyone --

 

I joined this group a couple of days ago, after meeting Maymay at the Sex 2.0 conference in DC.  I'm looking forward to the DC event, and I hope it takes place in June, because I won't be around for most of July and August (I co-organize 10-day camping retreats that happen during that time for Network for a New Culture -- www.cfnc.us, www.nfnc.org).

 

I'm fairly well connected with the DC polyamory and tantra communities, plus some other sex-positive explorer communities -- I just sent the KinkForAll DC announcement to a number of local listservs and am happy to do more if people would like it.  For example, my partner Michael is on a huge number of polyamory listservs, and I could ask him to send an announcement over those, to get KFA on the radar screens of lots of poly people across the US and beyond.

 

Looking forward to the event --

 

warm wishes, Sarah

[maymay]

Just a note to thank you, Sarah, for the time and effort you're putting into reaching your network about KinkForAll. I don't think we thank people enough most of the time, so I wanted to do so publically. :)

THANK YOU.

It's precisely what you're doing by talking to people yourself and spreading the word in a word-of-mouth focused way that will garner us the most success and understanding about what KinkForAll is about more than ANYTHING else that we do; what you're doing is even more important than what I'm doing with the Internet sites. What I'm doing is really just in support of your outreach and communication efforts.

So again, a huge thank you, and a warm welcome to this list!

Cheers,

-Maymay

Blog: http://maybemaimed.com

Community: http://KinkForAll.org

(Terse email sent from my iPod.)

[Sarah Taub]

<blush>

Thanks, Maymay ... I appreciate it!

warmly, Sarha

[maymay]

Hi all,

This is an update on the status of KinkForAll Washington DC. (I.e.,
you can safely ignore this if you're not interested in KFADC.)

First, American University is once again slowing down. I heard from
them only yesterday (a full 6 days after I physically visited them and
sent them 2 followup emails) and sadly they provided very little
actual helpful information, and absolutely none about the insurance
they need. Well, actually, they provided a 20 page MS Word document
inside of which I could find no helpful information despite searching
for the words "liability," "waiver," "insurance," "insured" and other
synonyms. I sent them a third email yesterday evening, as well.

However, more to the point, I can't keep being the person who does
this legwork. Not only can I, personally, no longer afford to do this,
KinkForAll Washington DC cannot have *me,* someone who is *not* a DC
local, do so much of this even if I could afford it.

I stepped into a heap of over 10 people who signed up to be DC
"unorganizers" to *support* the people who indicated interest in
making KinkForAll in DC happen. Sadly, we've only heard from 3 local
DC people more than once. I've publicly and privately (via direct
email) asked a bunch of these mystery unorganizers where they actually
are[0] and what they are doing and why they have not joined a public
channel such as this list, and have gotten no response.

Ultimately, there really needs to be more *active,* and *local* and
public involvement than what currently exists if a KinkForAll in DC is
going to happen.

The events coordinator at American University had the very good
suggestion that we should get in touch with the GLBTA of the University
[1] (a group I have never heard about before), and so I've gone ahead
and sent an email to that group to do exactly that. But again, this is
ultimately not a task for someone like me who's spent all of 10 days
in Washington DC in my whole life. That's not grass roots effort, and
KinkForAll is a grass-roots, *local* event.

Again, I am happy and eager to support Washington DC-based efforts in
making KinkForAll happen, but I will not, can not, and should not make
an event happen in DC by herculean effort. Not only is that stupid on
my part, it's also contrary to the whole point of KinkForAll. Local
people need to make things happen, to do the legwork--and yes, I mean
physical, actual, concrete, publicly visible walking-around-and-using-
one's-leg's, or mouths, work.

Let me once again be clear that I am *not* going to put my own effort
into making an event that is contradictory to KinkForAll goals. This
means that I'll NOT:

* I'll not put effort into organizing parties, play spaces, or
specific, ongoing, large scale fundraising events. KinkForAll does not
need these things now and never will need them in the future[2]. In
fact, if an event does need these things, then it's simply not a
KinkForAll. (Ala, collaboration and YAGNI[3].)
* I'll not put effort into tasks that change core KinkForAll concepts
or methods[4]. Again, if something like transparency is lost, then the
event you've just experienced might still have been totally awesome,
but it simply wasn't a KinkForAll.

It means that I WILL:

* I AM going to freely offer anyone who asks for it an unyieldingly
strong, reliable, directly communicative, timely support structure to
build local grass roots efforts using KinkForAll concepts and methods.

So, hopefully I'll hear from the GLBTA of American University;
otherwise, maybe one of you knows someone at the GLBTA of American
University. Or maybe you know of some other group affiliated with the
University, or perhaps someone somewhere else.

KinkForAll Washington DC needs more people actively engaged with the
idea. This is not a job that either can nor should be accomplished by
either be a few people or from people from far away; KFADC has moved
toward fundraising and over-large planning before evidence of a large
swell of interest had been displayed *anywhere*, most importantly *on
the wiki.*

So, moving forward, please ask people to become involved in the
KinkForAll *concept.* Yes, you can promote a concept, or idea. With
more active buy-in will come more people willing to help out. That's
how the event will move forward--not under the herculean efforts of a
few key people, but with the tumbling quickness of many people working
together.

Seriously, contacting and engaging LOCAL friends and networks is the
MOST important goal here, along with making it evident to the people
you engage that they will likely need to be ready for a paradigm
shift. I'm not pushing for a stop of current efforts, but I'm not
going to continue blindly going forward through the motions either.

Thank you,
-maymay

Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org

Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay

EXTERNAL REFERENCES:

[0] See the first comment on the KFADC page:
http://kinkforall.pbworks.com/KinkForAllWashingtonDC#comment1238351643
[1] http://www1.american.edu/ocl/glbta/
[2] My reasoning for this was discussed in depth here:
http://groups.google.com/group/kinkforall/browse_thread/thread/a9162094b029ca6e/029470bfbb9c147f#029470bfbb9c147f
[3] http://kinkforall.pbworks.com/OrganizeALocalKinkForAll#AvoidingUnnecessaryEffortYouArentGonnaNeedIt
[4] http://kinkforall.pbworks.com/TheRulesOfKinkForAll

[Chris !]

Hello Everyone,

It is unfortunate that American University is being so difficult to communicate with.  Given that this has been a clear trend, it seems that we can expect this issue to continue.

Maymay, I can certainly understand your desire to step away from organizing the venue, particularly given that you are not a DC resident to begin with.  It seems that if you are feeling overwhelmed by taking on these responsibilities, it would be helpful for you to pass along the information that you currently have.  I, for one, would be happy to start discussions with AU.  Thank you for all the effort that you have put into this so far, you have gone above and beyond what anyone would expect of someone who has to be organizing from afar!

Secondly, I do agree with Maymay that it would be helpful to involve more people as unorganizers.  This will be necessary to effectively reach out to the range of communities that we would like to participate.  I do believe that there are a number of different ways to involve people and I certainly do not think that lack of involvement on this email list necessarily indicates a lack of interest.  However, I very much agree that the best way to support the event at this point is to talk to your friends and get the word out!

Take care,

Chris

> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:53:05 -0700

> Subject: [KinkForAll] Re: DC: Date & Place, Finalizing

> From: bitethea...@gmail.com
> To: kinkf...@googlegroups.com

[Sara Eileen]

Hello,

I hope you don't mind me inserting myself in this conversation - I realize I have not played an active part in organizing the DC event thus far, but I think I can speak to some of this effectively.

On May 19, 2009, at 11:40 PM, Chris ! wrote:

Hello Everyone,

It is unfortunate that American University is being so difficult to communicate with.  Given that this has been a clear trend, it seems that we can expect this issue to continue.

Chris, I think you're right. I think it's great that you want to take over the communication for AU. I would also encourage everyone on the DC list to start considering and approaching other venue possibilities. Especially if you intend to carry off the event in a very short time frame, it will be helpful to have other possibilities. Has anyone heard back from the Metro DC LGBT Center?

 Thank you for all the effort that you have put into this so far, you have gone above and beyond what anyone would expect of someone who has to be organizing from afar!

Thank you, Chris. And everyone else working so hard so far - it's awesome to see KFA bearing fruit in new locations.

Secondly, I do agree with Maymay that it would be helpful to involve more people as unorganizers.  This will be necessary to effectively reach out to the range of communities that we would like to participate.  I do believe that there are a number of different ways to involve people and I certainly do not think that lack of involvement on this email list necessarily indicates a lack of interest.

I agree with you in theory, Chris, but in reality the mailing list is an exceptionally powerful tool for both communication and organization. KFANYC organized all of its technical needs via the mailing list, and did all of its essential pre and post discussion in this forum. This *is* a usable venue for organization.

If there is not lack of interest, that is great to hear! But interest isn't enough to get this event off the ground; you need community engagement, both here and on the wiki. 

Please keep in mind that a huge portion of the planning for this event is done before it even starts, and not just by self-appointed unorganizers - even people who simply consider themselves "participants" should be engaged as much as possible.

This event is not like other events; encouraging people to just show up frankly isn't enough. Community buy-in at a conceptual (not event-specific) level will garner success.

 However, I very much agree that the best way to support the event at this point is to talk to your friends and get the word out!

Yes, yes! Well said. Get the word out, and bring your friends back here to the list where they can introduce themselves and give us some new ideas.

Cheers,

Sara Eileen

[aelphaba]

Okay, the past few weeks have been a little crazy at the office and I
apologize profusely for my relative inactivity. Hopefully things have
slowed down a bit and I can get back into the swing of things.

American has been difficult to communicate with and not consistent in
offering up information - for example, after a month of email back and
forth, the insurance information and the "hey, you need to talk to an
on campus organization" are completely new. They didn't think to
mention that oh, back in freakin April when I first contacted them and
they first sent me information. Which is bull shit, frankly. I'm
really tempted to just tell American that they've been unprofessional,
disorganized, generally unhelpful, and that we're taking our money
elsewhere. The problem is, where else could this happen?

At this point, I want this thing to just *happen* that I'm tempted to
tell people to just meet up at the National Mall and we can sit around
on different quadrants having our discussion. Completely impractical
and possibly illegal, but damn. This is frustrating.

Amy

On May 19, 11:40 pm, Chris ! <bokon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> It is unfortunate that American University is being so difficult to communicate with.  Given that this has been a clear trend, it seems that we can expect this issue to continue.
> Maymay, I can certainly understand your desire to step away from organizing the venue, particularly given that you are not a DC resident to begin with.  It seems that if you are feeling overwhelmed by taking on these responsibilities, it would be helpful for you to pass along the information that you currently have.  I, for one, would be happy to start discussions with AU.  Thank you for all the effort that you have put into this so far, you have gone above and beyond what anyone would expect of someone who has to be organizing from afar!
> Secondly, I do agree with Maymay that it would be helpful to involve more people as unorganizers.  This will be necessary to effectively reach out to the range of communities that we would like to participate.  I do believe that there are a number of different ways to involve people and I certainly do not think that lack of involvement on this email list necessarily indicates a lack of interest.  However, I very much agree that the best way to support the event at this point is to talk to your friends and get the word out!
> Take care,Chris
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:53:05 -0700
> > Subject: [KinkForAll] Re: DC: Date & Place, Finalizing

> > From: bitetheappleb...@gmail.com

> >http://groups.google.com/group/kinkforall/browse_thread/thread/a91620...
> > [3]  http://kinkforall.pbworks.com/OrganizeALocalKinkForAll#AvoidingUnnece...
> > [4]http://kinkforall.pbworks.com/TheRulesOfKinkForAll
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®.http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM...

[aelphaba]

No, we haven't heard back from the DC Center.

Amy

> > > From: bitetheappleb...@gmail.com

[Sara Eileen]

Amy, would you like to try and get back in touch with them?
Alternately, I would be happy to take that contact off your plate (I
know you're busy!) and try to get in touch with them myself.

Cheers,
Sara Eileen

[maymay]

On May 19, 2009, at 11:40 PM, Chris ! wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
> It is unfortunate that American University is being so difficult to
> communicate with. Given that this has been a clear trend, it seems
> that we can expect this issue to continue.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure that American University is treating me as
a corporate entity. This is probably simply the way they work. As you
may know, KinkForAll cannot afford to be classed as a corporate event
and so this is probably why they have suggested the GLBTA on their
campus[0].

> Maymay, I can certainly understand your desire to step away from
> organizing the venue, particularly given that you are not a DC
> resident to begin with. It seems that if you are feeling
> overwhelmed by taking on these responsibilities, it would be helpful
> for you to pass along the information that you currently have. I,
> for one, would be happy to start discussions with AU. Thank you for
> all the effort that you have put into this so far, you have gone
> above and beyond what anyone would expect of someone who has to be
> organizing from afar!

Thanks for this offer, Chris. I'll send you the contact information I
have for American University privately right now in deference to the
AU staff's desire not to have direct contact information for their
employees plastered on a public forum like this one. Can you
coordinate this effort with Amy, who was originally doing much of the
legwork to get in touch with them?

Amy, are you interested in picking up the conversation with American
University where I have left off? Can you coordinate this with Chris?

> Secondly, I do agree with Maymay that it would be helpful to involve
> more people as unorganizers. This will be necessary to effectively
> reach out to the range of communities that we would like to
> participate. I do believe that there are a number of different ways
> to involve people and I certainly do not think that lack of
> involvement on this email list necessarily indicates a lack of
> interest. However, I very much agree that the best way to support
> the event at this point is to talk to your friends and get the word
> out!
>
> Take care,
> Chris

A lack of involvement on this list is not necessarily a lack of
interest, but it *is* a lack of action. You're a great example,
actually, Chris, of someone who seems very interested *and* has also
actually done something with that interest. I thank you much more for
your action than your interest.

On May 20, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Sara Eileen wrote:

> I agree with you in theory, Chris, but in reality the mailing list
> is an exceptionally powerful tool for both communication and
> organization. KFANYC organized all of its technical needs via the
> mailing list, and did all of its essential pre and post discussion
> in this forum. This *is* a usable venue for organization.
>
> If there is not lack of interest, that is great to hear! But
> interest isn't enough to get this event off the ground; you need
> community engagement, both here and on the wiki.

Yeah, what Sara said. :)

Cheers,

-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay

EXTERNAL REFERENCES:

[0] http://american.edu/glbta/

[aelphaba]

Updates /

Spoke with Chris briefly last night at the DO happy hour about looking
into other options besides American in case American continues to be
difficult. Something he brought up was speaking with Match re how much
it cost / how dealing with the hotel in Silver Spring where Sex 2.0
was. So that's what he's doing.

On May 19, 11:40 pm, Chris ! <bokon...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
> It is unfortunate that American University is being so difficult to communicate with.  Given that this has been a clear trend, it seems that we can expect this issue to continue.
> Maymay, I can certainly understand your desire to step away from organizing the venue, particularly given that you are not a DC resident to begin with.  It seems that if you are feeling overwhelmed by taking on these responsibilities, it would be helpful for you to pass along the information that you currently have.  I, for one, would be happy to start discussions with AU.  Thank you for all the effort that you have put into this so far, you have gone above and beyond what anyone would expect of someone who has to be organizing from afar!
> Secondly, I do agree with Maymay that it would be helpful to involve more people as unorganizers.  This will be necessary to effectively reach out to the range of communities that we would like to participate.  I do believe that there are a number of different ways to involve people and I certainly do not think that lack of involvement on this email list necessarily indicates a lack of interest.  However, I very much agree that the best way to support the event at this point is to talk to your friends and get the word out!
> Take care,Chris
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:53:05 -0700
> > Subject: [KinkForAll] Re: DC: Date & Place, Finalizing

> > From: bitetheappleb...@gmail.com

[Chris !]

Hey Y'all,

As an alternative to AU, I wanted to look into whether there are hotels, like the one that Match reserved for Sex 2.0, that might work.  Interestingly, I spoke with Match, and it sounded like the hotel he used for Sex 2.0 might be a possibility.  For those of you who were there and can visualize it, it was $400 per room, which holds 50-100 people each.  This adds up to roughly $1200 for three rooms, which is comparable to AU ($600-700, plus ~$300 for event insurance).  The rooms are also larger, and there are smaller conference rooms which might be cheaper (but are probably too small).  It should be noted, though, that this is the price in the context of participants reserving rooms, which won't be the case for this event.  So, I won't know what the actual price will be until I talk to them.

The disadvantage, though, is that Match had some difficulty getting them to book Sex 2.0, largely because of the name.  I suspect that they might be even more concerned about Kink for All.  We will see.

I'll keep you updated once I talk to them...

Take care,

Chris

> Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 09:11:05 -0700

> Subject: [KinkForAll] Re: DC: Date & Place, Finalizing

> From: aelp...@gmail.com
> To: kinkf...@googlegroups.com
> CC: boko...@hotmail.com

[Chris !]

Hey Y'all,

Before I start talking to people about reserving space for KFA DC, I had a couple of quick questions that I wasn't entirely clear on from the website.  Could someone fill me in on the details?

1) KFA is billed as a public event.  Does this mean that children and teenagers can attend, or is there an age cutoff?  If people under 18 can attend, could the event have any legal issues as a result?

2) The wiki states that people should dress in casual clothes and that KFA is not a play event.  How does this apply to presentations?  For example, could someone demonstrate fisting?  Or, is the requirements of the event that all participants be "street legal" at all times?

Thanks,

Chris

---

From: boko...@hotmail.com
To: kinkf...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [KinkForAll] Re: DC: Date & Place, Finalizing

Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 17:10:47 -0400

> </html

---

Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. Check it out.

[Emily Rutherford]

Chris,

I was a participant at KFANYC, so I'll answer these questions as best I know how.

1. The cutoff is 18, for obvious reasons, so there shouldn't be any legal issues.
2. No nudity, no sexual activity. I'm not sure what the absolute definition of "street legal" is, but I think it would be appropriate to demonstrate, say, rope bondage (or piercing--there was a piercing demo at KFANYC), but not fisting.

I would wait for one of the unorganizers to clarify, but that's a quick answer that's pretty likely to be accurate.

-E

--
http://worthlessdrivel.net

[Sara Eileen]

Hi Chris,

Emily has hit the presentation question on the nose. No nudity, no play. The 20 minute time frame makes demonstrations difficult, but possible. However, "street legal" is an appropriate turn of phrase.

The age question: I don't believe we explicitly had an age cutoff for KFANYC. As an unorganizer, I was asked if it was appropriate for a teenager to participate, and at the time had similar questions, but said that it was all right, at the discretion of an older relative. (It ended up not being an issue, as zhe did not attend. I am actually rather glad of this, as I have since questioned that decision.)

As KFA is a "street legal" event with no play, I chose to treat it as an educational event dealing with sexuality. The reality is that sex education begins much earlier than 18 years of age, and that I think it is personally important to provide said education in an informed manner. 

However, the reality also is that there are legal entanglements involved in this particular discussion, and they are possibly not ones that KFA can deal with adequately. As presentation topics are not restricted to the educational, I would be very concerned about potential issues with pornographic content. An age cutoff is an easy way to avoid this issue.

I'm not a lawyer, though I think we do have some lawyers on the list. Maybe one of them could jump in here?

This is not a question that has "officially" been "answered" within the Kink For All model. With that in mind, I would encourage you to consider the goals of the event alongside other ramifications and research, and choose a policy for KFA DC that makes you comfortable with bringing the event forward.

I hope that helps.

Regards,

Sara Eileen

[bostonpup]

This isn't legal advice and shouldn't be relied on.  My intuition on the legal aspect of this is that there should not be a problem with minors attending so long as there is no nudity, alcohol, or pornography.  If a participant has a pornographic image/publication and shows it to some people, not KFA's problem.  But if a presenter has the same thing and uses it in their presentation, you can't have minors present.  You could work around this by allowing presenters to designate their presentations as "18+" without having to ban nude images or ban minors.

 

In terms of other content, I would be very surprised if any parent (or minor) would have legal recourse against KFA if they or their child attends and is offended.  In most (but not all) jurisdictions there is nothing illegal about teaching minors about sex if they show up voluntarily to your sexual education event.

 

That doesn't mean KFA should be open to minors.  I'd urge everyone to think of it in terms of 'reasonable' worst case scenario.  A minor comes, sees something that is shocking but is not illegal.  Parent finds out, is outraged, parent writes letters to the media, the host institution, KFA, parent's church, parent's congressperson, Santa Claus.  Nor should we assume automatically its only the parent who is upset - the minor is outraged or shocked too.  Staying under the worst case scenario heading, assume there's a history of physical or sexual trauma and some ignorance about what KFA is about.

 

The one clearly bad potential outcome in my view is a negative reaction from the host institution, and that is enough for me to think that minors should not be permitted.  At the least I think it's prudent to broach the topic with the host (and once you do that, I'd predict we get a knee jerk response). 

 

Just to be clear, I believe we ought to keep minors out to protect ourselves, not the minors.  And I don't feel great about that situation. Society's protectiveness of children can sometimes put children in greater danger by leaving them ignorant or without safe outlets.