Suggestions

[Jerome Keslin]

My partner and I managed to reach 2C with these hands. :-)
Appreciate some suggestions on how to do better.

Qxxx                Kx
x                      AKxx
A                     Txxxx
AKTxxxx          xx

Jerome.

[Doug...@aol.com]

If playing strict KSU:

 

1C - 1H

1S - 2D

3N - P

 

2D = natural, forcing one round (B-7), responder has enough to invite game

3N = too many tricks for 3C (responder could pass), and 4C is less practical

 

My partnerships would bid:

 

1C - 1D

1S! - 1N

3N - P 

 

We respond 1D with a 4cM if holding invitational values or better opposite a strong NT, per recommendations posted by Doug Doub and others. Very effective provided you make other necessary changes.

1S = 4 spades, unbalanced, longer clubs unless 4=1=4=4 (and in that case 15+ HCP, since no mini-Roman opening)

1N = 9-11, strong implication of H stoppers, since responder could have bailed out in 2C with 3 trumps

3N = source of tricks

 

6C requires a non H lead, trumps behaving and some squeeze or other miracle. Way too optimistic.

5C is okay but so is 3NT, especially after the non-KSU auction, which will tend to inhibit a D lead.

 

Doug Deacon

 

P.S. Just for fun, how did this one die in 2C? Don't we get to assess damages?  ;-)

[Jerome Keslin]

Doug...@aol.com wrote:

If playing strict KSU:

 

1C - 1H

1S - 2D

3N - P

 

2D = natural, forcing one round (B-7), responder has enough to invite game

3N = too many tricks for 3C (responder could pass), and 4C is less practical

 

My partnerships would bid:

 

1C - 1D

1S! - 1N

3N - P 

 

We respond 1D with a 4cM if holding invitational values or better opposite a strong NT, per recommendations posted by Doug Doub and others. Very effective provided you make other necessary changes.

1S = 4 spades, unbalanced, longer clubs unless 4=1=4=4 (and in that case 15+ HCP, since no mini-Roman opening)

1N = 9-11, strong implication of H stoppers, since responder could have bailed out in 2C with 3 trumps

3N = source of tricks

 

6C requires a non H lead, trumps behaving and some squeeze or other miracle. Way too optimistic.

5C is okay but so is 3NT, especially after the non-KSU auction, which will tend to inhibit a D lead.

 

Doug Deacon

 

P.S. Just for fun, how did this one die in 2C? Don't we get to assess damages?  ;-)

    We had no difficulty in reaching 2C.

  1C - 1H
  1H - 1NT
  2C - pass

  The NT bidder was not familiar with B7. Opener took it as 5-8 and made a timid rebid.
  All in all, very cooperative. :-)
 
  Jerome.

[Steven Willner]

[Please use plain text when sending to the list.]

Jerome Keslin wrote:
> Qxxx Kx
> x AKxx
> A Txxxx
> AKTxxxx xx

If you play sound openings in the minors, responder has _at least_
enough to invite. Vulnerable at IMPs, forcing to game is not
ridiculous. Some would argue that opener has more than a minimum-range
opener, but staying low once responder showed a dead minimum was
reasonable if perhaps over-conservative.

[Adam Wildavsky]

You already know how to do better -- find a partner who remembers your system, or spend more time practicing with your current partner. That said, I've often wondered about how best to make sure both partners remember their system. Has anyone tried flash-card software?

Another suggestion I have is to include CCCC counts when posting hands to the list. You can find them here:

http://www.gg.caltech.edu/~jeff/knr.cgi

K&R (Qxxx x A AKTxxxx) = 19.15
K&R (Kx AKxx Txxxx xx) = 11.65

AW

[Ron]

Boards like this are why Invitational Walsh has become more popular
than GF Walsh in some circles.

Playing GF Walsh, Responder has no choice but 1C-1H here. If
Opener then decides to rebid their hand as a minimum, Responder is in
a bit of a bind.

Nor would it be unreasonable for Opener to decide that their minimum
HCP hand should be treated as a minimum when the only information
they have from Responder is that they have length in Opener's small
stiff. The hand sounds like a gross misfit from Opner's POV at that point.

One can empathize with Responder as well. 1C-1H;2C-?? Even if
Responder does decide to risk a 2N rebid, is Opener really any better
informed to figure out what to do?

Invitational Walsh helps a great deal here. 1C-1D;2C-2N may not get
the partnership to game (nor should they necessarily want to be on
this board except possibly Red at IMPs), but it certainly allows
Responder to completely tell their story while equally both allowing
Opener to bid their shape naturally and giving Opener better
information with which to make their next decision.

Ron Peacetree

[judyorcarl]

If the responding hand's red honors had been split between the red
suits, I could sympathize with the worries about putting diamonds in
proper focus.

With the actual responding hand though, I can't construct a hand for
opener where a 53 diamond game is measurably superior to clubs or
notrump. But if opener had

Qx
QJx
AK
QJTxxx

the best game is 4H. (Admittedly it's not very good.) it seems to me
that responding 1D completely eliminates the possibility of playing in
hearts when opener doesn't have 4. What am I missing?

Carl

> >AKTxxxx          xx- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Ron]

At 11:32 AM 9/22/2008, judyorcarl wrote:

>If the responding hand's red honors had been split between the red
>suits, I could sympathize with the worries about putting diamonds in
>proper focus.
>
>With the actual responding hand though, I can't construct a hand for
>opener where a 53 diamond game is measurably superior to clubs or
>notrump. But if opener had
>

>Qx_QJx_AK_QJTxxx
That is one of the worst 15 counts one can possibly have.
The knr evaluator says the hand is only worth 13.60 playing points.

Can I either open this 1N in the first place or plan on bidding this
as a minimum?

>the best game is 4H. (Admittedly it's not very good.) it seems to me
>that responding 1D completely eliminates the possibility of playing in
>hearts when opener doesn't have 4. What am I missing?

Your example hand is so weak that it does not matter whether
Responder has a minimum or an Invite.

Whether the auction start is 1C-1M;2C or 1C-1D;2C does not
matter unless Responder has a GF hand.

Base the discussion on a hand where it matters whether Responder has
a minimum or not, and we will have something to discuss.

Ron

[judyorcarl]

My statement was that failing to show the 5th diamond with

??
AKxx
10xxxx
??

can't be important, while it might with

??
Kxxx
Axxxx
??

And my question was whether those of you who (ever) respond 1D with 45
reds have any method for playing in 43 hearts.

Carl

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Ron]

At 06:01 AM 9/23/2008, judyorcarl wrote:

>My statement was that failing to show the 5th diamond with
>

>??_AKxx_Txxxx_??

>
>can't be important, while it might with
>

>??_Kxxx_Axxxx_??
Unfortunately, unless you are playing methods where you bid "up the
line at Responder's discretion", which may indeed have theoretical
merit given your examples, you must bypass D's and respond in H's
unless your hand is strong enough playing just about every variation
of JS I've heard of.

The point of Invitational Walsh rather than GF Walsh is that it helps
make Our game and slam bidding more accurate when Opener has 15+ and
Responder has 10+ (meaning Invite+ opposite a minimum opener) while
still having the advantages of accelerating the auction through the
one level ASAP when Responder has a minimum.

>And my question was whether those of you who (ever) respond 1D with 45
>reds have any method for playing in 43 hearts.

Mostly it's a matter of having a conversation and using bidding
judgement to decide to play in the Moysian based on the auction.

Folks like Charley Coon were famous for their bidding judgement as to
when to play in Moysians given the auction. I've been told of
occasions where he'd be the only person in the room in 6m ...in his
43 fit ...and be right.

Cheers,
Ron