Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
gabriel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VslzcciRmZg
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are
stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword;
His truth is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on.
I have seen Him in the watch fires of a hundred circling camps
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps;
His day is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! His day is marching on.
I have read a fiery Gospel writ in burnished rows of steel;
"As ye deal with My contemners, so with you My grace shall deal";
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with His heel,
Since God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Since God is marching on.
He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment seat;
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet;
Our God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Our God is marching on.
In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us live to make men free;
[originally "...let us die to make men free"]
While God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! While God is marching on.
He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,
He is wisdom to the mighty, He is honor to the brave;
So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of wrong His
slave,
Our God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Our God is marching on.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV If my people, which are called by my name,
shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn
from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will
forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Psalms 46:10 KJV Be still, and know that I am God: I will be
exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
I
> Mine eyes have seen the gory of the coming of the Bored;
> He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are
> stored;
> He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword;
> His Fundamentalist trooth is marching on.
>
> Gory! Gory! Hellelujah! Gory! Gory! Hellelujah!
> Gory! Gory! Hellelujah! His trooth is marching on.
from Jonathan Kirsch "A History Of The End Of The World"
(HarperSanFrancisco:2006)
Revelation, quite in contrast to the Gospels, is notoriously lacking in
loving-kindness. Rather, it is a punishing text, full of rage and
resentment, almost toxic in its longing for bloody revenge against one's
enemies. p.12
Above all else, the author of Revelation is a good hater, and he embraces
the simple principle that anyone who is not with him is against him. p. 14
Again and again, Revelation has stirred some dangerous men and women to act
out their own private apocalypses. Above all, the moral calculus of
Revelation - the demonization of one's enemies, the sanctification of
revenfge taking, and the notion that history must end in catastrophe - can
be detected in some of the worst atrocities and excesses of every age,
including our own. p. 18
David Koresh amnd the Beranch Davidians, Jim Jones and the People's Temple,
Osama Bin laden and al Qaeda, and miscellaneous other religious zealots,
less celebrated but no less dangerous, are only the most recent examples of
what can happen when a human being with delusions of grandeur, paranoid
tendencies, an overheated imagination, and a certain dark charisma convinces
himself and his dutiful followers that he is on a mission from God. Indeed
we will encounter many such men and women in these pages, all of whom were
agitated and provoked by what they read in the book of Revelation. pp. 20-21
... revenge ... is among the core values of Revelation. p. 73
Protestant fundamentalists in America always looked on the sunny side of
doomsday. p.194
Here, then, is yet another example of the dark side of the apocalyptic
idea - the fear and loathing of the "other," and the insistance that the
"other" must convert or die. p. 250
Juan M
"I" <me@home000000000000488> wrote in message
news:4af1e048$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
neighbor as yourself then you get disease, pestilence, war, famine, etc.
It is the classic God dilemma. Is God the god of mercy or the god of
judgment?
gabriel
<juanmSP...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:
: "I" <me@home000000000000488> wrote in message
:
:
The God of mercy while we yet live. If we reject Him our entire
life and then face Him after death, He is now the God of
judgment.
2 Peter 3:9 KJV
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men
count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing
that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Hebrews 9:27 KJV
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this
the judgment:
But do we repent? Or do we instead refuse to repent and instead
mock the One who created us?
Luke 13:3 KJV
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise
perish.
If we repent (from the heart, which only God will know if we
really did or not), and call on Christ to be our Lord and Savior,
then we will not perish. But we refuse to repent and then judge
God instead in spite of Him wanting to forgive us. Only shows
that we deserve judgment by refusing to accept forgiveness -
refusing to repent (turn away from our wicked ways).
I
>> from Jonathan Kirsch "A History Of The End Of The World"
>> (HarperSanFrancisco:2006)
...
> The message seems to be if you don't turn the other cheek and love your
> neighbor as yourself then you get disease, pestilence, war, famine, etc.
> It is the classic God dilemma. Is God the god of mercy or the god of
> judgment?
God is God.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
from Karen Armstrong "The Case for God : What Religion Really Means" (Bodley
Head:2009)
People of faith know in theory that God is utterly transcendent, but they
seem sometimes to assume that they know exactly who 'he' is and what he
thinks, loves and expects. We tend to tame and domesticate God's
'otherness'. p.1
There is also a tendency to assume that, even though we now live in a
totally transformed world and have entirely different world-view, people
have always thought about God in exactly the same way as we do today. p. 1
... some of the greatest Jewish, Christian and Muslim theologians made it
clear that while it was important to put our ideas of the divine into words,
these doctrines were man-made and, therefore, were bound to be inadequate.
... You certainly could not read your scriptures literally, as if they
referred to divine facts. .. Today many own a copy of the Bible ... and have
the literacy to read them, but in the past most people had an entirely
different relationship with their scriptures. They listened to them,
recited piecemeal, often in a foreign language and alwys in a heightened
liturgical context. preachers instructed them not to understand these texts
in a purely literal way and suggested figurative interpretations. p.2
Religion, therefore, was not primarily something that people thought but
something they did. Its truth was acquired by practical action. p. 4
Because God is infinite, nobody can have the last word. p.8
The Jews had discovered that religious discourse was essentially
interpretive. ... Jewish exegesis would be called midrash, which derives
from the verb darash: ' to search', 'to investigate', 'to go in pursuit of'
something as yet undiscovered. p.54
As Ezra had indicated so long ago, scripture was not a closed book and
revelation was not a distant historical event. It was renewed every time a
Jew confronted the text, opened himself to it, and applied it to his own
situation. The rabbis called scripture miqua: it was a 'summons to action'.
No exegesis was complete until the interpreter had found a practical new
ruling that would answer the immediate needs of his community. the dynamic
vision could set the world aflame. p.84
The first Christians ... had no intention of founding a new religion, but
observed the Torah, worshipped in the temple and kept the dietary laws.
Like the Pharisees, they regarded the Golden Rule as central to Judaism. pp
85-86
The word translated 'faith' in the New Testament is the Greek pistis (verbal
form: pisteuo), which means 'trust,; loyalty; engagement; commitment'. Jesus
was not asking people to 'believe' in his divinity, because he was making no
such claim. He was asking for commitment. He wanted disciples who would
engage with his mission, give all they had to the poor, feed the hungry,
refuse to be hampered with family ties, abandon their pride, lay aside their
self-importnace and sense of entitlement, live like the birds of the air and
the lilies of the field, and trust in God who was their father. They must
spred the good news of the Kingdom to everyone in Israel - even the
prostitutes and tax collectors - and live compassionate lives, not confining
their benevolence to the respectable and conventionally virtuous. Such
pistis could move mountains and unleash unexpected human potential. p. 90
I
> : > from Jonathan Kirsch "A History Of The End Of The World"
> : > (HarperSanFrancisco:2006)
...
> : The message seems to be if you don't turn the other cheek and love your
> : neighbor as yourself then you get disease, pestilence, war, famine, etc.
> : It is the classic God dilemma. Is God the god of mercy or the god of
> : judgment?
....
> 2 Peter 3:9
2 Peter is a well known FORGERY written 90 - 160 CE when Peter was DEAD! See
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/2peter.html
> If we repent (from the heart, which only God will know if we
> really did or not), and call on Christ to be our Lord and Savior,
> then we will not perish. But we refuse to repent and then judge
> God instead in spite of Him wanting to forgive us.
Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God [YAHWEH NOT YAHWEH'S HUMAN CHRIST /
MESSIAH Jesus of Nazareth] with all your heart and with all your soul and
with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest
commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew
22:37-40
Jesus of nazareth ISN'T mentioned in either of the Greatest Commandments.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GOOD NEWS - GOSPEL
MARK'S GOSPEL (ending at Mark 16:8)
1:15; 4:11; 4:14; 6:12; 9:1;13:9-10 all describe the gospel / good news as
announcing that the kingdom [realm] of God is here so one must turn away
from one's sins. Nothing more! Count how many times Jesus says the "the
kingdom of God is like" in Mark's gospel!
MATTHEW'S GOSPEL
4:17; 4:23; 5:19; 6:33; 7:21; 9:35; 10:7; 11:12; 12:28; 13:11; 13:19; 13:38;
13;52; 18:2; 19:23; 21:31 21:43; 23:13; 24:34; 25:34 ff; 26:13; describe the
gospel / good news as announcing that the kingdom [realm] of heaven is here
so one must turn away from one's sins. Nothing more! (Matthew prefers
'kingdom of heaven" to "kingdom of God") Count how many times Jesus says
the "the kingdom of heaven is like" in Matthew's gospel!
gabriel
wrote:
: "gabriel" <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:
:
: > : > from Jonathan Kirsch "A History Of The End Of The World"
: > : > (HarperSanFrancisco:2006)
: ...
: > : The message seems to be if you don't turn the other cheek and love your
: > : neighbor as yourself then you get disease, pestilence, war, famine, etc.
: > : It is the classic God dilemma. Is God the god of mercy or the god of
: > : judgment?
: ....
: > 2 Peter 3:9
:
: 2 Peter is a well known FORGERY written 90 - 160 CE when Peter was DEAD! See
: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/2peter.html
:
:
: > If we repent (from the heart, which only God will know if we
: > really did or not), and call on Christ to be our Lord and Savior,
: > then we will not perish. But we refuse to repent and then judge
: > God instead in spite of Him wanting to forgive us.
:
: Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God [YAHWEH NOT YAHWEH'S HUMAN CHRIST /
: MESSIAH Jesus of Nazareth] with all your heart and with all your soul and
: with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest
: commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
: All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew
: 22:37-40
:
: Jesus of nazareth ISN'T mentioned in either of the Greatest Commandments.
I never said He was mentioned in those two commandments -
meanwhile we were commanded to repent and call on Christ as our
Lord and Savior.
Luke 13:3 KJV
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise
perish.
Meanwhile it's obvious Jesus was God in the flesh.
Matthew 1:20-21 KJV
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of
the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son
of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that
which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name
JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Matthew 1:22-23 KJV
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was
spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a
son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being
interpreted is, God with us.
Acts 2:21 KJV
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the
name of the Lord shall be saved.
John 10:34-38 KJV
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said,
Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and
the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into
the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works:
that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in
him.
:
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:
Bob LeChevalier
>Meanwhile it's obvious Jesus was God in the flesh.
Let us know when you get evidence for that.
The Bible does not qualify as evidence.
lojbab
---
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
loj...@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org
gabriel
<loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
: gabriel <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
: >Meanwhile it's obvious Jesus was God in the flesh.
:
: Let us know when you get evidence for that.
:
: The Bible does not qualify as evidence.
Well then using your logic, you better throw out every book that
records things that happened in the past, and tell yourself none
of it happened, and get the world to stop teaching in schools
that what any book says did happen, because none of it qualifies
Bob LeChevalier
>On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:16:57 -0500, Bob LeChevalier
><loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
>
>: gabriel <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>: >Meanwhile it's obvious Jesus was God in the flesh.
>:
>: Let us know when you get evidence for that.
>:
>: The Bible does not qualify as evidence.
>
>Well then using your logic,
You don't understand my logic or any other kind.
No event that the Bible could have recorded would prove that "Jesus
was God in the flesh", since there are no independent criteria to
define what traits "God in the flesh" might display. God, being
all-powerful, could take any form from Jesus Christ to a slug on a
rock. Since there is no way to prove that something is NOT "God in
the flesh", there is no way to prove that something IS.
>you better throw out every book that
>records things that happened in the past,
No. Merely treat them with skepticism, greater or lesser depending on
the credentials of those who wrote the book, its internal consistency,
and its consistency at the detail level with other sources. The Bible
fails all three criteria.
gabriel
<loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
: gabriel <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
: >On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:16:57 -0500, Bob LeChevalier
: ><loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
: >
: >: gabriel <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
: >: >Meanwhile it's obvious Jesus was God in the flesh.
: >:
: >: Let us know when you get evidence for that.
: >:
: >: The Bible does not qualify as evidence.
: >
: >Well then using your logic,
:
: You don't understand my logic or any other kind.
:
: No event that the Bible could have recorded would prove that "Jesus
: was God in the flesh", since there are no independent criteria to
: define what traits "God in the flesh" might display.
Well then using your logic, you better throw out every book that
records things that happened in the past, and tell yourself none
of it happened, and get the world to stop teaching in schools
that what any book says did happen, because none of it qualifies
as evidence, because "there are no 'independent criteria' to
define" whatever trait they wrote about in a book that you wish
to reject.
: God, being
Bob LeChevalier
>On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:41:03 -0500, Bob LeChevalier
><loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
>: gabriel <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>: >On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:16:57 -0500, Bob LeChevalier
>: ><loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
>: >
>: >: gabriel <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>: >: >Meanwhile it's obvious Jesus was God in the flesh.
>: >:
>: >: Let us know when you get evidence for that.
>: >:
>: >: The Bible does not qualify as evidence.
>: >
>: >Well then using your logic,
>:
>: You don't understand my logic or any other kind.
>:
>: No event that the Bible could have recorded would prove that "Jesus
>: was God in the flesh", since there are no independent criteria to
>: define what traits "God in the flesh" might display.
>
>Well then using your logic, you better throw out every book that
>records things that happened in the past,
No.
>and tell yourself none of it happened,
No.
>and get the world to stop teaching in schools
>that what any book says did happen, because none of it qualifies
>as evidence, because "there are no 'independent criteria' to
>define" whatever trait they wrote about in a book that you wish
>to reject.
Wrong.
That you don't understand the concepts of independence and
verification of evidence, doesn't mean that I and others don't.
And the ultimate proof of the pudding, is that science WORKS. It
results in new and useful ideas.
gabriel
<loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
: gabriel <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
: >On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:41:03 -0500, Bob LeChevalier
It seems to mean whatever definition suits whichever book you
wish to reject.
:
: And the ultimate proof of the pudding, is that science WORKS. It
: results in new and useful ideas.
You seem to have no idea we weren't even talking about science,
but the validity of information recorded in books, and which ones
you want to selectively reject while holding onto all the rest
that suffer from the same "problems" you introduce, but now
ignore when it suits you. =(
:
: lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
>On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 21:21:59 -0500, Bob LeChevalier
><loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
>: That you don't understand the concepts of independence and
>: verification of evidence, doesn't mean that I and others don't.
>
>It seems to mean whatever definition suits whichever book you
>wish to reject.
What YOU think "it seems" has nothing to do with reality.
>: And the ultimate proof of the pudding, is that science WORKS. It
>: results in new and useful ideas.
>
>You seem to have no idea we weren't even talking about science,
The scientific method can be applied to all realms of knowledge.
>but the validity of information recorded in books, and which ones
>you want to selectively reject while holding onto all the rest
>that suffer from the same "problems" you introduce, but now
>ignore when it suits you. =(
I reject all claims that any book is complete in its information
and/or infallible. If a book has a problem, then I reject that part
of the book as being less than fully accurate. This causes no
especial problem; I then can merely say "I don't know" or see if I
have another book with a better answer.
I tend to rely on sources that have proved useful and accurate in the
past, but am always willing to consider the possibility that a
particular source may be incorrect.
This grates on those who practice Bible idolatry. Tough.