> 2010-05-11T16:55:59  <infograf768> don't know... have to be reminded each
> time about that doc link... :p
> 2010-05-11T17:02:39  <AndrewEddie> ok, everyone here that is coming?
> 2010-05-11T17:04:18  <AndrewEddie>
> https://docs.google.com/a/joomla.org/Doc?docid=0ARxqaWVp2fOzZGdobmRkN...
> 2010-05-11T17:04:19  <jools> Title: Joomla! (at docs.google.com)
> 2010-05-11T17:07:43  <louislandry> I'm here
> 2010-05-11T17:07:44  <louislandry> sorry
> 2010-05-11T17:07:54  <infograf768> Christophe was supposed to come. No idea
> for Ian and Mark
> 2010-05-11T17:08:00  <infograf768> or Ron
> 2010-05-11T17:08:09  <louislandry> Mark is probably in the air
> 2010-05-11T17:08:21  <infograf768> Looks like Chris is here. Chris?
> 2010-05-11T17:08:24  <louislandry> over the atlantic :)
> 2010-05-11T17:08:29  <infograf768> ah
> 2010-05-11T17:08:57  <louislandry> chrisdavenport: you with us?
> 2010-05-11T17:09:13  <AndrewEddie> ian_mac: are you with us?
> 2010-05-11T17:11:47  <infograf768> hmm, we need some bugsquad leaders
> 2010-05-11T17:11:59  <infograf768> to discuss 1.5.18
> 2010-05-11T17:12:09  <AndrewEddie> we'll have to wing it
> 2010-05-11T17:12:15  <louislandry> doesn't sound like that's going to
> happen :)
> 2010-05-11T17:12:20  <infograf768> wing?
> 2010-05-11T17:12:32  <AndrewEddie> we will have to make do with who is here
> 2010-05-11T17:12:41  <infograf768> ah
> 2010-05-11T17:13:22  <AndrewEddie> so, business from the last meeting - we
> dont' have minutes done (cough) but my recollection is the only thing
> outstanding is a blog or two
> 2010-05-11T17:13:40  <louislandry> :-)
> 2010-05-11T17:13:40  <AndrewEddie> that louis has on his plate prior, then
> he got sick :)
> 2010-05-11T17:13:54  <louislandry> There is a blog about the milestone
> 2010-05-11T17:13:56  <AndrewEddie> next time give us 7 days notice please
> 2010-05-11T17:14:02  <louislandry> then there is a blog about the JBS stuff
> I think
> 2010-05-11T17:14:03  <infograf768> a blog had to be done by Louis to launch
> the JBS campaign on 1.6 and explain com_comments not committed
> 2010-05-11T17:14:59  <louislandry> well given the situation its almost
> better that didn't happen
> 2010-05-11T17:15:06  <louislandry> as we don't seem to have JBS
> coordinators around atm
> 2010-05-11T17:15:17  <louislandry> and the last thing we need is a call to
> arms with no leader
> 2010-05-11T17:15:20  <AndrewEddie> I've added a comment to the Ask the Team
> where that question came up, to expand on the "comments" issue as a stop gap

> http://community.joomla.org/blogs/community/1173-ask-the-team-chatlog...
> 2010-05-11T17:15:22  <jools> Title: Ask The Team - Chatlog 5th May 2010 (at
> community.joomla.org)
> 2010-05-11T17:15:23  <louislandry> just makes us look bad
> 2010-05-11T17:15:36  <AndrewEddie> yeah
> 2010-05-11T17:16:02  <louislandry> Our bus factor is still too low
> 2010-05-11T17:16:10  <infograf768> bus factor?
> 2010-05-11T17:16:15  <infograf768> sorry...
> 2010-05-11T17:16:22  <AndrewEddie> you can say that again
> 2010-05-11T17:16:36  <louislandry> bus factor == the number of people that
> have to be hit by a bus before everythign stops
> 2010-05-11T17:16:49  <louislandry> the higher the bus factor the better
> 2010-05-11T17:17:07  <infograf768> hmm, a joke. Ok
> 2010-05-11T17:17:17  <louislandry> only a half joke
> 2010-05-11T17:18:02  <infograf768> My question will be direct: is ian
> available for this function or is there any issue there?
> 2010-05-11T17:18:08  <AndrewEddie> it's a funny way of looking at a serious
> problem
> 2010-05-11T17:18:20  <louislandry> it should be ok if i get sick.... we
> should have enough people around to get the things done that i am supposed
> to be doing
> 2010-05-11T17:18:24  <louislandry> same is true for all of us
> 2010-05-11T17:18:29  <louislandry> and if two of us go down for some reason
> 2010-05-11T17:18:37  <infograf768> yes
> 2010-05-11T17:18:40  <louislandry> ill, family emergency, life
> 2010-05-11T17:18:47  <louislandry> that should be ok as well
> 2010-05-11T17:18:51  <louislandry> that's something to work on
> 2010-05-11T17:18:52  <louislandry> as for ian
> 2010-05-11T17:18:56  <louislandry> he has limited time at the moment
> 2010-05-11T17:19:12  <louislandry> i won't speak for him, but he can't be
> the one-man-show that he once was
> 2010-05-11T17:19:25  <infograf768> OK, so we have to deal without him for
> JBS I guess atm
> 2010-05-11T17:19:48  <louislandry> we need some developer herders
> 2010-05-11T17:19:57  <AndrewEddie> well, I was almost "wiped out" because
> Caitlyn decided to have a fight with a surf board at school camp -
> fortunately she's ok - but it goes to show how vulnerable we are
> 2010-05-11T17:19:59  <infograf768> and we need a senior dev to handle this,
> yes
> 2010-05-11T17:20:17  <louislandry> well, in my view there are two jobs
> 2010-05-11T17:20:28  <louislandry> there is the dev herders
> 2010-05-11T17:20:32  <louislandry> they don't have to be senior devs
> 2010-05-11T17:20:40  <louislandry> but there have to also be senior devs
> around for consultation
> 2010-05-11T17:20:46  <louislandry> its hard to do both things
> 2010-05-11T17:21:01  <louislandry> we lack the former
> 2010-05-11T17:21:04  <louislandry> and we are light on the latter
> 2010-05-11T17:21:14  <AndrewEddie> been trying to do a bit of both
> 2010-05-11T17:21:27  <louislandry> you've been doing very admirable
> 2010-05-11T17:21:27  <AndrewEddie> JBS chat has been silent when I'm on the
> air though, unfortunately
> 2010-05-11T17:21:50  <infograf768> WE need someone that can take decisions
> in JBS and launch the campaign on 1.6
> 2010-05-11T17:21:52  <louislandry> IMO we need JBS team leaders on the
> three major continents
> 2010-05-11T17:21:55  <louislandry> a pair for each
> 2010-05-11T17:22:39  <louislandry> but JM is right there
> 2010-05-11T17:22:44  <louislandry> we need that as well
> 2010-05-11T17:22:50  <AndrewEddie> Mark has some ideas that I believe he
> wants to get cracking on when he gets back
> 2010-05-11T17:23:08  <AndrewEddie> I think we've just got to ride it as
> best we can until then
> 2010-05-11T17:23:37  <AndrewEddie> yes JM, very much so
> 2010-05-11T17:23:47  <louislandry> I do think Mark needs to be present for
> the conversation on what exactly to do
> 2010-05-11T17:23:52  <infograf768> Christophe and I have been trying to
> follow up on bugs and solve as many as we found we could.
> 2010-05-11T17:23:53  <louislandry> but all very good points
> 2010-05-11T17:24:17  <infograf768> there are issues that need senior devs
> 2010-05-11T17:25:38  <louislandry> of course there are
> 2010-05-11T17:25:47  <AndrewEddie> and it's only going to get worse :)
> 2010-05-11T17:26:30  <AndrewEddie> so basically, regarding comms, we park
> that until everyone has caught up and are back on deck?
> 2010-05-11T17:26:58  <louislandry> I don't know what you mean exactly by
> that
> 2010-05-11T17:27:02  <infograf768> I worry about letting this 1.5.17 issue
> long without doing anything
> 2010-05-11T17:27:26  <AndrewEddie> well, the blog that was supposed to go
> out for milestone 1
> 2010-05-11T17:27:37  <louislandry> well there isn't anything we can do
> about that right now JM
> 2010-05-11T17:27:38  <AndrewEddie> we delay that until we can coordinate
> with Ian/Mark
> 2010-05-11T17:28:03  <AndrewEddie> just wait JM, want to do one thing at a
> time
> 2010-05-11T17:28:14  <infograf768> k
> 2010-05-11T17:28:43  <AndrewEddie> the milestone blog that was planned, is
> it best to wait until everyone is on deck
> 2010-05-11T17:28:50  <louislandry> I think so
> 2010-05-11T17:29:08  <AndrewEddie> ok, done
> 2010-05-11T17:29:09  <infograf768> if Ian is not available, it means Mark's
> return
> 2010-05-11T17:29:21  <infograf768> we can't wait more
> 2010-05-11T17:29:40  <AndrewEddie> I put on the agenda to discuss the
> 1.5.17 issue, specifically the plugin patch
> 2010-05-11T17:29:48  <infograf768> same for 1.5.18 (I know, I know)
> 2010-05-11T17:30:22  <infograf768> definition of "everyone"please
> 2010-05-11T17:30:29  <AndrewEddie> would have liked Ian here on that one
> 2010-05-11T17:30:47  <AndrewEddie> but anyway, it would appear that it's
> throwing a multitude of false positives
> 2010-05-11T17:31:07  <AndrewEddie> mainly due to people applying upgrade
> patches and not following good upgrade procedure
> 2010-05-11T17:31:29  <AndrewEddie> ... since that is most of the world,
> that makes the scale of plugins indiscriminately turning off rather large
> 2010-05-11T17:32:08  <AndrewEddie> the problem is that if someone hits the
> site as a plugin file is being overwritten, the plugin patch does an
> *excellent* job of trapping the error
> 2010-05-11T17:32:19  <infograf768> and also this
> 2010-05-11T17:32:30  <infograf768>
> http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?p=2139111#p2139111
> 2010-05-11T17:32:31  <jools> Title: Joomla! View topic - Please help !
> system-legacy turned off two times, not me. (at forum.joomla.org)
> 2010-05-11T17:33:13  <AndrewEddie> there's a host of other lesser reasons
> why it's doing it, but since everyone upgrades their core files, that's the
> biggest problem imo
> 2010-05-11T17:33:16  <infograf768> apprently network errors may trigger the
> thing
> 2010-05-11T17:33:49  <infograf768> anyway, we have 2 solutions: revert or
> make it a param
> 2010-05-11T17:34:14  <louislandry> hrm
> 2010-05-11T17:34:36  <louislandry> how would a network error cause joomla
> to throw an E_ERROR, E_PARSE or E_COMPILE_ERROR
> 2010-05-11T17:34:37  <louislandry> ?
> 2010-05-11T17:34:46  <louislandry> it only catches those
> 2010-05-11T17:35:11  <louislandry> the during upgrade is really interesting
> actually andrew
> 2010-05-11T17:35:32  <louislandry> i hadn't considered that
> 2010-05-11T17:35:41  <AndrewEddie> no, neither had I
> 2010-05-11T17:35:42  <louislandry> we should be temporarily turning the
> site to offline during an upgrade anyway
> 2010-05-11T17:36:16  <louislandry> should be a function of the extension
> manager
> 2010-05-11T17:36:18  <AndrewEddie> there's lot of things we could do, but
> in my opinion, the least work is to revert the change
> 2010-05-11T17:36:23  <louislandry> ya
> 2010-05-11T17:36:25  <louislandry> i know
> 2010-05-11T17:36:31  <louislandry> its a shame though
> 2010-05-11T17:36:37  <louislandry> its a really good idea
> 2010-05-11T17:36:43  <AndrewEddie> it is
> 2010-05-11T17:36:57  <louislandry> somewhat befuddling that it caused that
> much pain
> 2010-05-11T17:37:01  <louislandry> other than the upgrade situation
> 2010-05-11T17:37:05  <AndrewEddie> well
> 2010-05-11T17:37:06  <AndrewEddie> heh
> 2010-05-11T17:37:08  <louislandry> i don't see any legitimate reasons it
> would error out
> 2010-05-11T17:37:28  <louislandry> if someone's plugin throws any of those
> error types they are taking down the site
> 2010-05-11T17:37:35  <AndrewEddie> the interesting thing is that was only
> found after certain high profilers started complaining about "what if's"
> 2010-05-11T17:37:43  <AndrewEddie> anyway
> 2010-05-11T17:37:46  <AndrewEddie> I'll be good now
> 2010-05-11T17:37:49  <louislandry> sure
> 2010-05-11T17:38:27  <louislandry> sounds like for the most part its a big
> case of "me too" syndrome
> 2010-05-11T17:38:33  <louislandry> but its easy enough to revert it
> 2010-05-11T17:38:43  <AndrewEddie> well the Nooku problem was that they
> found they weren't catching an error properly - hrm, so that problem wasn't
> the patch
> 2010-05-11T17:38:54  <louislandry> lol
> 2010-05-11T17:38:55  <AndrewEddie> yeah
> 2010-05-11T17:38:59  <louislandry> so we just helped them debug
> 2010-05-11T17:39:02  <louislandry> they should be thanking us
> 2010-05-11T17:39:11  <AndrewEddie> I was good and didn't point that out
> 2010-05-11T17:39:23  <infograf768> maybe we should...
> 2010-05-11T17:39:26  <louislandry> you SHOULD point that out
> 2010-05-11T17:39:30  <infograf768> yes
> 2010-05-11T17:39:36  <louislandry> we can't just take lashes for no reason
> 2010-05-11T17:39:38  <louislandry> i mean we can
> 2010-05-11T17:39:39  <louislandry> but it doesn't help
> 2010-05-11T17:39:44  <infograf768> Agree
> 2010-05-11T17:39:50  <louislandry> just makes us look bad
> 2010-05-11T17:39:53  <louislandry> and gives them more credence
> 2010-05-11T17:40:14  <infograf768> do you know exactly where that error was
> in their code?
> 2010-05-11T17:40:41  <infograf768> I will be pleased to let it known...
> 2010-05-11T17:40:44  <AndrewEddie> I would have pointed it out if that was
> the only problem
> 2010-05-11T17:41:37  <AndrewEddie> we really need Ian on this decision as
> well?
> 2010-05-11T17:42:08  <louislandry> well i'd say we need at least ian or
> mark
> 2010-05-11T17:42:20  <louislandry> also i'd like us to find a way to have
> sam at these meetings if we can
> 2010-05-11T17:42:21  <louislandry> he's never here
> 2010-05-11T17:42:34  <louislandry> i don't know exaclty why, but i assume
> its a schedule conflict
> 2010-05-11T17:42:44  <AndrewEddie> it's leave for work time
> 2010-05-11T17:42:53  <louislandry> can we do them an hour earlier or later
> then?
> 2010-05-11T17:43:02  <louislandry> anyway...
> 2010-05-11T17:43:04  <AndrewEddie> earlier suits me
> 2010-05-11T17:43:07  <louislandry> we need to solve that
> 2010-05-11T17:43:14  <louislandry> earlier would work for north america i'd
> assume
> 2010-05-11T17:43:33  <AndrewEddie> should work for europe as well ;)
> 2010-05-11T17:44:02  <AndrewEddie> I'll see what sam can do
> 2010-05-11T17:44:10  <AndrewEddie> Ron is another
> 2010-05-11T17:44:15  <infograf768> earlier would be great here in Europe
> 2010-05-11T17:44:18  <AndrewEddie> though it's not the time for him I think
> 2010-05-11T17:45:08  <AndrewEddie> I'll ping Sam and work it out
> 2010-05-11T17:45:35  <louislandry> thanks
> 2010-05-11T17:46:51  <AndrewEddie> well, I think we send a private mail to
> Ian and Mark and get their thoughts on reverting the plugin patch, OR we
> wait until next meeting
> 2010-05-11T17:47:13  <infograf768> I am not in favour of waiting more on
> this
> 2010-05-11T17:47:20  <louislandry> or we call another meeting on thursday
> 2010-05-11T17:47:22  <louislandry> when mark is back
> 2010-05-11T17:47:25  <louislandry> he's back tomorrow
> 2010-05-11T17:47:33  <infograf768> ok for that
> 2010-05-11T17:47:35  <AndrewEddie> ok, let's do that
> 2010-05-11T17:47:36  <infograf768> here
> 2010-05-11T17:47:38  <louislandry> and just deal with it
> 2010-05-11T17:47:55  <louislandry> AndrewEddie: can you work with sam to
> get a time that works on thursday
> 2010-05-11T17:48:07  <louislandry> hopefully we can find a window where
> most of us can show
> 2010-05-11T17:48:19  <AndrewEddie> your thursday?
> 2010-05-11T17:48:22  <louislandry> yes
> 2010-05-11T17:48:26  <louislandry> your friday morn
> 2010-05-11T17:48:39  <infograf768> hmm, my Thursady night?
> 2010-05-11T17:48:44  <louislandry> yes
> 2010-05-11T17:48:45  <louislandry> :)
> 2010-05-11T17:48:58  <AndrewEddie> done
> 2010-05-11T17:49:04  <infograf768> or maybe Thursday morning early my time?
> 2010-05-11T17:49:32  <AndrewEddie> ok, last point is 1.6 beta readiness
> 2010-05-11T17:49:41  <louislandry>
> http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=5&day=13&year=...
> 2010-05-11T17:49:42  <jools> Title: The Fixed Time World Clock (at
> timeanddate.com)
> 2010-05-11T17:49:47  <louislandry> that is a starting point
> 2010-05-11T17:50:05  <infograf768> 23h00 here, OK
> 2010-05-11T17:50:18  <infograf768> Let's mail it to PLT
> 2010-05-11T17:52:39  <AndrewEddie> I'll do that
> 2010-05-11T17:54:32  <AndrewEddie> done
> 2010-05-11T17:55:09  <AndrewEddie> so 1.6 Beta stuff
> 2010-05-11T17:55:19  <AndrewEddie> Louis are you back on deck enough to do
> all the PR interviews?
> 2010-05-11T17:55:24  <infograf768> oh, private. right
> 2010-05-11T17:55:55  <louislandry> Umm..
> 2010-05-11T17:56:01  <louislandry> I could probably pick up some
> 2010-05-11T17:56:03  <louislandry> maybe even most
> 2010-05-11T17:56:06  <louislandry> but i dunno about all
> 2010-05-11T17:56:11  <louislandry> i still get exhausted quickly
> 2010-05-11T17:56:19  <AndrewEddie> ok, let's work it out after the meeting
> then
> 2010-05-11T17:56:30  <AndrewEddie> I've got a heap of mails from Justin
> this morning
> 2010-05-11T17:56:32  <louislandry> i'm able to function in bursts
> 2010-05-11T17:56:34  <louislandry> ok
> 2010-05-11T17:56:43  <AndrewEddie> I'm happy to take the slack
> 2010-05-11T17:57:25  <AndrewEddie> JM, do you have any overall concerns
> (big picture, not individual bugs)?
> 2010-05-11T17:57:57  <infograf768> it's getting much better
> 2010-05-11T17:58:12  <infograf768> hannes revretd his commit that was
> breaking SEF
> 2010-05-11T17:58:29  <infograf768> we have to look into this deeper
> 2010-05-11T17:58:30  <AndrewEddie> yeah, Angie told me last night
> 2010-05-11T17:58:47  <AndrewEddie> oh, speaking of, did we decide Beez was
> to become the default template?
> 2010-05-11T17:58:53  <infograf768> Although he first refused when
> Christophe asked him
> 2010-05-11T17:59:03  <infograf768> Yes, as far as I know
> 2010-05-11T17:59:25  <infograf768> big picture is: get rid of all useless
> stuff in trunk
> 2010-05-11T17:59:47  <louislandry> yes
> 2010-05-11T17:59:51  <louislandry> beez should be default
> 2010-05-11T18:00:04  <infograf768> start testing taking of the OLD strings
> in the inis
> 2010-05-11T18:00:27  <infograf768> make sure we get the right error strings
> in front-end
> 2010-05-11T18:00:52  <infograf768> aprt from that still many bugs,
> including the mail function
> 2010-05-11T18:01:27  <infograf768> that one has to be solved asap if
> possible, for us to check all parts of the interface where mail is concerned
> 2010-05-11T18:01:40  <AndrewEddie> is that just SMTP though?
> 2010-05-11T18:01:52  <infograf768> and sendmail I think
> 2010-05-11T18:02:02  <AndrewEddie> ok, but regular PHP mail is ok?
> 2010-05-11T18:02:09  <infograf768> but none of us as phpmail local
> 2010-05-11T18:02:26  <infograf768> so it's hard to test anything
> 2010-05-11T18:02:47  <infograf768> FYI, I tried last phpmail lib and no
> chnage
> 2010-05-11T18:03:01  <infograf768> so it is trunk
> 2010-05-11T18:03:13  <AndrewEddie> so none of the mail functions work at
> all?
> 2010-05-11T18:03:21  <infograf768> only phpmail
> 2010-05-11T18:03:26  <infograf768> works
> 2010-05-11T18:03:27  <AndrewEddie> ok
> 2010-05-11T18:03:41  <AndrewEddie> as long as that works, that's something
> 2010-05-11T18:04:22  <AndrewEddie> louislandry: you got enough energy to
> catch up after the meeting to coordinate what's on "the list"?
> 2010-05-11T18:04:31  <louislandry> ya i'll stick around
> 2010-05-11T18:04:56  <louislandry> would like to chat anyway
> 2010-05-11T18:06:04  <AndrewEddie> ok, well, there's nothing else I had to
> cover
> 2010-05-11T18:06:30  <louislandry> i was just coming to sort of catch up on
> the last few days i've been gone
> 2010-05-11T18:06:53  <AndrewEddie> I should be on Joomla all this week but
> will be preparing for my lectures on Saturday - however, that will probably
> involve fixing bugs in areas I want to deomonstrate
> 2010-05-11T18:07:09  <louislandry> I should be getting close to 100% later
> in the week
> 2010-05-11T18:07:15  <infograf768> so, on 1.6, shall Christophe and I go on
> debugging  as we did in the recent days?
> 2010-05-11T18:07:21  <infograf768> weeks
> 2010-05-11T18:07:23  <louislandry> sure
> 2010-05-11T18:07:26  <AndrewEddie> yep
> 2010-05-11T18:07:28  <louislandry> that's what needs to be done now
> 2010-05-11T18:07:30  <louislandry> fix bugs
> 2010-05-11T18:07:39  <AndrewEddie> what's in the trunk is what's shipping
> 2010-05-11T18:07:45  <infograf768> there are heavy one in com_media
> frontend
> 2010-05-11T18:07:57  <AndrewEddie> new stuff shouldn't be going in unless
> it's actually fixing some major stuff up
> 2010-05-11T18:08:05  <infograf768> we can't insert image in article there
> 2010-05-11T18:08:16  <AndrewEddie> ok
> 2010-05-11T18:09:05  <infograf768> I ahve asked Elin if she could name the
> modules used to help debugging:
> 2010-05-11T18:09:25  <infograf768> calling every menu with menu appended
> 2010-05-11T18:09:47  <infograf768> as we get lost in sample data
> 2010-05-11T18:09:59  <AndrewEddie> main thing is to ensure issues are going
> on the tracker and discussion is happening on the JBS mailing list
> 2010-05-11T18:10:28  <AndrewEddie> then if people get hit by a bus, we are
> still ok (sort of )
> 2010-05-11T18:10:30  <infograf768> well some people just do it by personal
> chat. If we can solve, we do
> 2010-05-11T18:10:37  <AndrewEddie> sure, go for it
> 2010-05-11T18:10:49  <infograf768> Dennis is a good example of that type
> 2010-05-11T18:11:04  <infograf768> I can move him on some stuff ;)
> 2010-05-11T18:11:16  <AndrewEddie> if you need me to look at something,
> raise a tracker issue and assign me to it - otherwise all these notes people
> are leaving me will get lost :)
> 2010-05-11T18:11:26  <infograf768> as long as Hannes does not break
> stuff...
> 2010-05-11T18:11:44  <louislandry> good thing you've never broken anything
> :P
> 2010-05-11T18:11:45  <AndrewEddie> we probably need to make it clear, the
> time for refactoring is past
> 2010-05-11T18:11:56  <infograf768> which he does because he does not test
> his commits
> 2010-05-11T18:12:31  <infograf768> for exampel the beez commit (we found an
> issue in imagelist grace to that) and solved
> 2010-05-11T18:12:49  <infograf768> and his sef commit that brole the
> sliders and anchors
> 2010-05-11T18:12:52  <infograf768> broke
> 2010-05-11T18:12:53  <AndrewEddie> ok, well, we can follow those things up
> later
> 2010-05-11T18:13:00  <AndrewEddie> meeting closed
> 2010-05-11T18:13:16  <AndrewEddie> time for another cuppa
> 2010-05-11T18:13:40  <chrisdavenport> I just arrived in time then :P
> 2010-05-11T18:13:48  <chrisdavenport> Sorry, got delayed.
> 2010-05-11T18:13:50  <AndrewEddie> ha
> 2010-05-11T18:13:52  <infograf768> OK, as in the past, I will contact you
> when issues
> 2010-05-11T18:14:03  <infograf768> hello Chris
> 2010-05-11T18:14:05  <AndrewEddie> ok, quickly, Chris anything to report
> from you?
> 2010-05-11T18:14:07  <chrisdavenport> Hi JM
> 2010-05-11T18:14:21  <AndrewEddie> with regard to beta
> 2010-05-11T18:14:22  <chrisdavenport> Not really.  Started on the help
> screens.
> 2010-05-11T18:14:28  <chrisdavenport> Early days yet.
> 2010-05-11T18:14:45  <AndrewEddie> so nothing holding you back code wise?
> 2010-05-11T18:14:50  <chrisdavenport> Nope.
> 2010-05-11T18:14:54  <AndrewEddie> cool
> 2010-05-11T18:15:08  <infograf768> Chris, while you are here, can we talk
> here in PLT about our discussion on help screens for ajoomla instance?
> 2010-05-11T18:15:20  <chrisdavenport> Sure.
> 2010-05-11T18:15:30  <infograf768> As I guess this should go through PLT
> and OSM
> 2010-05-11T18:15:48  <infograf768> Let me ex[plain fast for Louis and
> Andrew
> 2010-05-11T18:16:31  <infograf768> Last year, the Norwegian community made
> a donation to OSM to get the wiki contents dumped into a joomla instance
> 2010-05-11T18:17:03  <infograf768> as they (and others) like better the use
> of joomla and joomfish to take care of help screens
> 2010-05-11T18:17:39  <infograf768> this, I quote you Chris, requires a
> specific component to be made
> 2010-05-11T18:18:02  <infograf768> and it is (I still quote you) a 2 days
> job at least
> 2010-05-11T18:18:37  <chrisdavenport> Probably less for Louis or Andrew. ;)
> 2010-05-11T18:18:41  <infograf768> so, my question to PLT is: how do we
> deal with this? (Chris has made a nice doc on what this comp should do)
> 2010-05-11T18:19:20  <infograf768> correction: the wiki contents for help
> screens only
> 2010-05-11T18:19:38  <louislandry> is chris capable and willing to do the
> work?
> 2010-05-11T18:20:07  <infograf768> Chris can do if we discuss with his
> company and pay them
> 2010-05-11T18:20:14  <infograf768> for his work
> 2010-05-11T18:20:22  <infograf768> better let you explain Chris
> 2010-05-11T18:20:49  <chrisdavenport> The problem for me is that I'm way
> over-committed on time and this wasn't really a high priority for me.
> 2010-05-11T18:21:05  <chrisdavenport> So I thought it might be a way to get
> things moving for TTs
> 2010-05-11T18:21:35  <louislandry> I have no issue paying chris
> 2010-05-11T18:21:40  <louislandry> why does it have to go through a
> company?
> 2010-05-11T18:21:46  <louislandry> or are we talking about "chris' company"
> 2010-05-11T18:21:50  <infograf768> yes
> 2010-05-11T18:22:01  <chrisdavenport> The company I work for (part-time).
> 2010-05-11T18:22:06  <infograf768> his boss, right?
> 2010-05-11T18:22:09  <infograf768> yeah
> 2010-05-11T18:22:13  <louislandry> we can't just pay you directly as a
> contractor?
> 2010-05-11T18:22:30  <chrisdavenport> Well, I don't really have enough
> spare time.
> 2010-05-11T18:22:53  <AndrewEddie> has the money already been donated?
> 2010-05-11T18:22:53  <chrisdavenport> So if it goes through the company I
> get to do it during daylight hours. :P
> 2010-05-11T18:23:05  <louislandry> Money already has been donated
> 2010-05-11T18:23:05  <louislandry> yes
> 2010-05-11T18:23:05  <infograf768> yes, the moneys were donated
> 2010-05-11T18:23:15  <louislandry> I spoke with Ole about this last year
> 2010-05-11T18:23:17  <infograf768> and specifically for this task
> 2010-05-11T18:23:22  <AndrewEddie> ok, did OSM establish an agreement for
> that money?
> 2010-05-11T18:23:37  <infograf768> don't know these aspects
> 2010-05-11T18:23:38  <chrisdavenport> I don't really mind who takes on the
> task though.  It doesn't have to be me.
> 2010-05-11T18:23:49  <louislandry> at the time I had suggested all we
> really needed was a joomla site and a system plugin and some modifications
> to com_content ... minor ones
> 2010-05-11T18:24:32  <louislandry> I don't have an issue with Chris doing
> it... I think it is a little more interesting/tricky if we are just hiring a
> firm to do it.
> 2010-05-11T18:24:40  <louislandry> That isn't something we've really done
> before
> 2010-05-11T18:24:53  <louislandry> At that level I would say its out of PLT
> hands and into OSM hands
> 2010-05-11T18:25:00  <louislandry> as it really becomes a pure business
> decision
> 2010-05-11T18:25:08  <chrisdavenport> Well, I wanted to keep negotiations
> at arms length.
> 2010-05-11T18:25:18  <infograf768> that is indeed what was my first thought
> 2010-05-11T18:25:37  <louislandry> What might be interesting
> 2010-05-11T18:25:42  <infograf768> but, we, as PLT have to formally ask OSM
> about it
> 2010-05-11T18:25:51  <louislandry> is if we spec out exactly what we want
> done
> 2010-05-11T18:25:58  <AndrewEddie> well, if OSM has negotiated a specific
> outcome for a donation, that puts it out of the PLT's hands per se - they
> can of course "boss" me or louis around, or engage someone else privately to
> do it
> 2010-05-11T18:26:02  <louislandry> and OSM can then just put out an RFC to
> community firms
> 2010-05-11T18:26:29  <chrisdavenport> That sounds like a good idea.
> 2010-05-11T18:26:39  <chrisdavenport> I've basically already written the
> spec.
> 2010-05-11T18:26:47  <louislandry> So then we are almost there.
> 2010-05-11T18:26:48  <chrisdavenport> So anyone could take it up.
> 2010-05-11T18:27:01  <louislandry> Seriously chris I don't have ANY issue
> with paying you to do it.
> 2010-05-11T18:27:10  <louislandry> I do think its a horse of a different
> color though
> 2010-05-11T18:27:14  <infograf768> evidently I suggest this to be done on a
> 1.6 base
> 2010-05-11T18:27:16  <louislandry> when we talk about paying the firm you
> work for
> 2010-05-11T18:27:37  <louislandry> not that i think its evil or bad
> 2010-05-11T18:27:41  <louislandry> just a different conversation with the
> public
> 2010-05-11T18:27:56  <louislandry> i'm actually still for it generally...
> but i think it may suit us better to do the RFC thing
> 2010-05-11T18:28:13  <chrisdavenport> I'm good with that.
> 2010-05-11T18:28:17  <AndrewEddie> I don't have a problem with people
> getting paid for things, but are we suggesting that the PLT is subject to
> OSM allowing people to "buy" features?
> 2010-05-11T18:28:17  <infograf768> me too
> 2010-05-11T18:28:32  <AndrewEddie> or am I looking at this the wrong way
> 2010-05-11T18:28:32  <louislandry> its not a joomla feature
> 2010-05-11T18:28:39  <chrisdavenport> Exactly.
> 2010-05-11T18:28:41  <louislandry> it is a functionality for our web site
> 2010-05-11T18:28:51  <louislandry> its not something to go in trunk
> 2010-05-11T18:28:55  <chrisdavenport> It's a tool to help the TTs
> 2010-05-11T18:28:55  <AndrewEddie> right
> 2010-05-11T18:28:59  <louislandry> its a separate tool
> 2010-05-11T18:29:07  <infograf768> as is com_localise
> 2010-05-11T18:29:13  <AndrewEddie> ok
> 2010-05-11T18:29:20  <louislandry> in that way its no different than OSM
> paying me to work on the developer site
> 2010-05-11T18:29:30  <AndrewEddie> ok
> 2010-05-11T18:29:32  <infograf768> yes
> 2010-05-11T18:29:33  <louislandry> or any other piece of joomla.org stuff
> 2010-05-11T18:29:35  <AndrewEddie> got it now
> 2010-05-11T18:29:49  <AndrewEddie> it's the first time I've heard of it
> 2010-05-11T18:29:54  <louislandry> ya
> 2010-05-11T18:29:58  <AndrewEddie> didn't have the big picture
> 2010-05-11T18:30:02  <louislandry> well before it happened i spoke with Ole
> 2010-05-11T18:30:08  <louislandry> but i never really knew what the status
> was
> 2010-05-11T18:30:11  <louislandry> or if there was any sort of spec
> 2010-05-11T18:30:17  <louislandry> its good we seem to have that now
> 2010-05-11T18:30:29  <chrisdavenport> I honestly thought that some dev
> amongst the TTs would take it upon themselves to code it.
> 2010-05-11T18:30:39  <chrisdavenport> But nobody seems to have taken it up.
> 2010-05-11T18:30:40  <infograf768> this came when I realised that the new
> help system was getting in
> 2010-05-11T18:30:41  <louislandry> in a perfect world...
> 2010-05-11T18:30:58  <infograf768> among TTS we have almost no devs, folks
> 2010-05-11T18:31:27  <AndrewEddie> in that case, I don't have any objection
> to however gets paid to do it if that's what OSM is doing - I don't think it
> matters other than we being kept in the loop
> 2010-05-11T18:31:32  <infograf768> in the coordination, the best dev is me
> ;) see how low we are...
> 2010-05-11T18:32:04  <infograf768> then we have to decide who is taking thi
> issue to OSm and follow up
> 2010-05-11T18:32:12  <infograf768> louis can you?
> 2010-05-11T18:32:17  <AndrewEddie> hang on
> 2010-05-11T18:32:25  <AndrewEddie> so OSM hasn't been approached
> 2010-05-11T18:32:44  <infograf768> not yet, they only have the moneys
> 2010-05-11T18:32:56  <infograf768> maybe not enough btw
> 2010-05-11T18:33:16  <infograf768> depends on cost
> 2010-05-11T18:33:18  <AndrewEddie> ok, I think "I don't want to know" and
> I'll go with what you guys think is best :)
> 2010-05-11T18:33:31  <louislandry> I mean I can send a note on behalf of
> the plt
> 2010-05-11T18:33:33  <chrisdavenport> Not sure if OSM has any plans for the
> money.  I don't know the details either.
> 2010-05-11T18:33:37  <louislandry> is that what you are asking for me?
> 2010-05-11T18:33:42  <infograf768> yes, louis
> 2010-05-11T18:33:48  <louislandry> *shrug*
> 2010-05-11T18:33:48  <louislandry> ok
> 2010-05-11T18:33:54  <louislandry> chris can you send me the spec then?
> 2010-05-11T18:33:58  <chrisdavenport> Sure.
> 2010-05-11T18:34:14  <louislandry> ok
> 2010-05-11T18:34:33  <infograf768> I would do it if I was not so ignorant
> in that kind of things.
> 2010-05-11T18:34:45  <infograf768> better let the one who knows do it
> 2010-05-11T18:34:51  <louislandry> lol, ok
> 2010-05-11T18:35:43  <louislandry> are we done?
> 2010-05-11T18:35:55  <infograf768> for me yes, until thursday
> 2010-05-11T18:35:56  <chrisdavenport> ygm.
> 2010-05-11T18:36:09  <chrisdavenport> Yep, nothing else from me.
> 2010-05-11T18:36:21  * louislandry slams the gavel
> 2010-05-11T18:36:27  <infograf768> shall we put this in the Doc or just
> wait?
> 2010-05-11T18:36:29  <louislandry> adjourned
> 2010-05-11T18:36:35  <louislandry> go ahead
> 2010-05-11T18:38:09  <infograf768> lease correct the doc
> 2010-05-11T18:39:05  <infograf768> Marijke is going to test wiki to wiki
> help screens, Chris
> 2010-05-11T18:39:25  <infograf768> Marijke and Stella prefer wikis
> 2010-05-11T18:39:49  <infograf768> cya folks

> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Mark Dexter <dextercow...@gmail.com>wrote:

>> Does anyone have a transcript of this meeting or a summary? Thanks. Mark

>> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 7:04 AM, JM Simonet <infograf...@gmail.com>wrote:

>>> Will be there.
>>> JM

>>>  Anyone available for the PLT meeting at the usual time (in around 8
>>>> hours)?

>>>> Regards,
>>>> Andrew Eddie
>>>> http://www.theartofjoomla.com - the art of becoming a Joomla developer

>>>> --
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>>> Joomla Leadership Team - Production Working group
>>> Joomla! Translation Coordination Team

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