Response from Leadership Team on recent email posting

[Ryan O]

Hi Joomla Leadership Team,

Recently, we’ve seen the publishing of a private email exchange
between members of our leadership team back in 2009. From what I
understand, this was done without the consent of all members of that
email discussion.

I’d like to go on record to say that I abhor the notion of people
publicly posting private emails without the permission of all parties;
however, the reality is that in a world that moves at the speed of
electrons, these things are going to happen outside the bounds of the
project.

My question to you all is this: how does the Leadership Team wish to
respond to such situations?

I look forward to your thoughts.

Best,
Ryan

[Brad Baker]

I hope that if this entire leadership team responds to this public email it will be a united response to show how we collectively feel about poor behaviour such as this. This kind of poor behaviour is not new. 

Stirring up drama and using any available opportunity to inject negatively is something that some people have a long track record of doing under the guise of whatever it is they can use.

I could speculate as to why people might want to do this, but I'll leave it at that for now.

How should we respond? 

Hopefully with real actions that demonstrate that the lies often told about how we're a divided team and refuse peoples attempts to contribute are just that.. lies.

Happy to go with the majority on this however. Looking forward to hear how others feel.

[Ron Severdia]

Thanks for starting this discussion, Ryan. It's a shame we need to
have it, but hopefully it will clarify some things.

Publicly posting private stuff isn't kosher and especially if it's to
the detriment of others. It's technically a violation of the Code of
Conduct when it relates to the project and should be treated
accordingly. Publishing private details doesn't deserve a warning or
slap on the wrist since it's an offense that is thought out and
usually serves to assassinate a person's character. The response on
the part of the project should be swift and decisive in these
circumstances.

[Sandra Warren]

I find it appalling and totally against the Code of Conduct for any private data to be shared publicly without the consent of those in the email.

We must look out for the privacy of our volunteers, without whom we would not have Joomla. 

We should never look at privacy issues as small.  Even as a community driven project we, the volunteers, should be allowed privacy in our email correspondence.  Further, using that private email to attack a volunteers character should not be tolerated.  Nothing good can come from sharing private material with the public without permission to do so.

We should protect the volunteers we have from this behavior quickly and it should be severe.

Sandra

[Mark Dexter]

I'm looking at the Code of Conduct here:
http://www.joomla.org/about-joomla/the-project/code-of-conduct.html.

First one is Be Considerate. "...be considerate of how your actions or
contribution affects your colleagues and the community as a whole." It
is clear this action was intended to hurt Andrew and it also hurts the
entire community.

Second one is Be Respectful. This action is about as disrespectful as
you can get.

Third one is Be Collaborative. Again, hard to think of something less
collaborative than this.

Number 8 is Exercise Discretion and Confidentiality at Appropriate
Times. It goes on to say: "Breaches in the area of privacy and
confidentiality are taken very seriously by the Project."

In my view, this is a very serious violation of many parts of the Code
of Conduct by an individual who has a history of problems complying
with our Code of Conduct. Why do we want someone who repeatedly
behaves in this manner participating in our project?

Mark

On May 19, 5:29 pm, Sandra Warren <sandra.war...@community.joomla.org>
wrote:

>  I find it appalling and totally against the Code of Conduct for any private
> data to be shared publicly without the consent of those in the email.
>

> *We must look out for the privacy of our volunteers, without whom we would
> not have Joomla.  *

[Andrea Tarr]

I agree that posting private emails without permission is wrong and we
should respond to the situation in an appropriate manner.

Andy

[Paul Orwig]

Ryan,

I think different situations call for different responses.

In this situation, how about if a comment is posted to Johan's Betwixt and Between blog from Joomla Leadership congratulating him on his JAB award and acknowledging the contributions of Hannes, Gergo, and Ercan, but adding that publishing excerpts from a private email about project matters without the consent of the sender and all recipients violates multiple aspects of the Joomla Code of Conduct, and then either sign it "Joomla leadership" or close with the names of everyone who agrees with that comment?

paul

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Joomla Leadership" group.
To post to this group, send email to joomla-l...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to joomla-leaders...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-leadership?hl=en.

[Matt Lipscomb]

It seems we go thru similar scenarios quite frequently with some and it really is very harmful to the project and community.  There is, of course, a Code of Conduct that should be followed at all times, but further than that, we (the collective of all parts of the project) should be willing and ready to stand up and say, "No, you cannot harass volunteers.  Period."  We deal with it every day in the directories and it's really a point of "volunteer loss".  Volunteers that give freely of their time, knowledge and resources are routinely being "scared out of action" because we (collective leadership) are allowing them to be harassed.  This situation, in specific, is no different to me.

I believe we need to move to "Zero Tolerance" policy on harassment and set up some guidelines that define what "harassment of volunteers" is so that there is a clear process for remedy.  Otherwise we will continue to see these situations happen (amongst many others) and slowly but surely the glue that holds the community together will be eroded until we no longer have a project.

On top of that, moving to a collective User Management System (across all sites) could benefit this - so if someone is harassing a volunteer on one team, other team leaders can see that and move for action if it starts in their team.  

Final thought:  We *must* protect the volunteers that serve our community.

[Paul Orwig]

Matt,

I agree about the importance of defining objective guidelines about what constitutes "harassment of volunteers". It would also be important to have some sort of structure/process in place so that the person or team who feels they are the target of harassment isn't the same person or team that makes the decision about consequences. It's not a good idea for the same person or team to be "judge, jury, and executioner" (in the same spirit that people who participate in a forum thread should not also moderate that same thread).

You said:

Volunteers that give freely of their time, knowledge and resources are routinely being "scared out of action" because we (collective leadership) are allowing them to be harassed.  This situation, in specific, is no different to me.

Do you have specific examples to support this as a widespread problem? If not, broad sweeping statements that are based on unsupported assumptions and conclusions don't advance this discussion.

 You said:

Final thought:  We *must* protect the volunteers that serve our community.

I would say that "We *must* protect the volunteers that serve our community in a respectful, considerate, and collaborative way that is consistent with the Code of Conduct.". I would add that volunteers who are not doing that should either step aside or be asked to step aside so that room can be made for other volunteers who can serve the community in the right way.

Thanks,

paul

--

[Sandra Warren]

Whether or not there is broad sweeping widespread problems is beside the point.  Further, I do not believe anyone involved in this situation is also in leadership at the present time.

Irregardless of who caused the issue, who reported the issue and who reviews the issue.  Leadership has the responsibility of enforcing the Code of Conduct which we wrote. 

There is evidence of that as was seen in the email thread.  Even one volunteer who is scared from this is too many.

From the Code of Conduct:  "Breaches in the area of privacy and confidentiality are taken very seriously by the Project."

Since we, leadership, created and worded this document, we are also tasked with enforcing it.  In this case to protect our volunteers from potential scandals created from posting private emails for public viewing.

We ALL have to abide by the Code of Conduct.  That goes for the members of sites, team mates as well as leadership.  However, if we water down the CoC it becomes useless as a guide to how everyone should behave with each other.  Each and every one of us are bound by the CoC as we should be. 

Sandra

[Sandra Warren]

I forgot to add,

I fully support zero tolerance for Harassing and breach of privacy at a minimum.

Sandra

[Wendy Robinson]

I can only agree with what others have said about the publishing of private information without the consent of all parties - most especially the references made to the numerous violations of Joomla's code of conduct. 

Can we prevent people from doing this? Evidently, no. People choose their own actions, attitude, behaviour etc.

But, we can let the Joomla community, our working group members, and most of all the people directly affected by it that we think it is unacceptable. 

I'd be all for posting a comment regarding how we feel about publishing private information in public without consent of all parties.  But I think that such a statement would be more appropriate somewhere at joomla.org. I also feel that we should acknowledge the contributions of all community members, working group members and volunteers - not just a select few - and offer an apology to them for this breach of what should be, at all times, a safe and positive working environment where they do not have worry about fellow community members attacking them or their ideas.

At the same time, make a statement that we will work as leaders to make a better effort to show that our coc is actually important to us.  If it's not, and if we're not going to a) adhere to it ourselves and b) uphold it at all times for the community then really, it doesn't mean a thing.

I agree with Matt, that zero tolerance for harassment is the way to go - just as it should be in any working environment - and I also agree that we need guidelines in place that determine what is and what is not acceptable. That much is way overdue.

Wendy

[Marijke Stuivenberg]

While I can only agree that publishing private emails without permission of those involved is plain wrong and indecent I have thought a lot about the question how to respond to such situations.

The hard part in here is that since I came back from JAB with the feeling that this event was good for the enthusiasm and willingness of the people attending to participate in the community, even people who were hesitant because of things happening in the past and were willing to put those feelings aside, now it seems that we already have a situation that stirs up the community again and distracting us from what we really want to do.

The reason to link to this email from 2009 in the blog article where it was initially published is very unclear to me, and I wonder if those who tweeted and retweeted it where aware of the fact that they were actually violating the CoC this way.

So where do we start and where is the end, or where does our zero tolerance start?

I'm also reading the input of the community in this thread:
http://people.joomla.org/groups/viewdiscussion/1201-Response+from+Leadership+Team+on+recent+email+posting+.html?groupid=952

Thanking the people who responded there.
The suggestions about making discussions more public on this emaillist seems a good suggestion to me. We should be using this list more often and be clear about when emails should be and stay private. That way we can hopefully try to prevent most of these situations and stay focussed on more positive things.

I also hope this discussion will people in the community make think twice before publishing such things in there blog articles. Most times it isnt necessary, it doesnt really prove anything else but poor taste. And more it might cause an unhealthy and negative atmosphere in the community we work in.

My suggestion on how do we respond to this situations would be both lines above for LT and the community.

Regards,
Marijke

2011/5/20 Wendy Robinson <wendy.r...@community.joomla.org>

[Sandra Warren]

Marijke and all

I don't see how any tweets or retweets would be against the CoC as those people who tweet or RT etc... would assume that the original blog poster had exercised proper approval to post a private email.  I think we all assume that when we tweet something.

Thank you
Sandra

[Louis Landry]

I've been in Shanghai on business (still am), but I wanted to take a little time to address some problems I have with this discussion.  Shanghai, by the way, is a lovely place and I highly recommend it. :)

Before I continue, I would kindly ask that no one "tweet" quotes from my email.  There is no way to accurately convey my thoughts in 140 characters or less.  If you cherry pick certain quotes that make you seem smart or suit the message you want to get across then you are a part of the problem, not the solution.  We do entirely too much of that as a community.  The in-fighting has to stop, it does nothing to make anyone's life or the Joomla project better.

1)  The code of conduct is a great document that outlines the principles of how we expect to interact with each other.  It is not law.  It is not a set of commandments.  It is a document that outlines what we expect of each other.  I am tired of it being waved around by people as some sort of tool to showcase how someone didn't behave properly.  I would much rather us act on principles than rules -- and only when absolutely necessary to maintain a productive, healthy environment for people.  When that action must take place I would prefer it to be swift, certain, and clear so that we can move on with the important work we all love.

2)  Generally speaking I strongly disagree with posting private emails publicly.  I also think though, that sometimes there may be a good reason to do so.  I have done it in the past and justified it based on the fact that I was correcting misinformation being propagated about the Joomla Project and I had no idea how far that misinformation had gone since it was all in private.  In the case we are discussing I don't think it was justified, and I certainly question Johan's intentions in both posting the email as well as whomever highlighted the specific passages that were highlighted.

3)  All that being said the general gist of Johan's blog post is a positive one and I appreciate the overall sentiment of placing credit in a more appropriate place.  People can make their own opinions about who the Joomla person of the year is -- I really don't care.  I certainly think that Johan could have written that post without posting the private email and made just as strong if not stronger a point, that is his choice.  There is nothing that we can do as a project to impact that decision -- what will be will be.  As I've said many times both privately and publicly I applaud Johan's work on Nooku and Koowa and am very glad that he's found something to put his talent and energy into that makes him happy.  That is what I wish for everyone, it just so happens that for most of us on this list that thing is Joomla.

4)  What frustrates me most about this discussion is that we are talking about all these consequences and such, but no one addressed the core message here.  The email that Andrew sent was in my opinion a good one.  Certainly it would be better represented without the highlighting so that you can more easily get the full message without any false significance put on any given quote, but it is what it is.  There is no one in the Joomla community that really pays attention and is objective that would not already know most of the things said in that email and experience the frustration that comes across in its text.  For the record Andrew was not a member of leadership at the time and sent that email to the PLT as well as Hannes, Gergo and Ercan (in their role as release team).  At the time I forwarded it to OSM for discussion as well.

I'd be happy to go over the email bit by bit and talk about how much of it I agree with and how very little I may not agree with -- though I probably would have worded things differently --, but that isn't really what this discussion about.  The point is that I think the leadership response to something like this should be the following:

- State that we think the sharing of private emails without consent is wrong.

- Ask the person who posted the private information to remove it.

- Thank Andrew for having had the courage to share what was on his mind as a concerned community member so openly and discretely.

- Talk about the things we have learned and the steps we have taken so that we don't find ourselves in the same situation again moving forward.

- Move on.

There isn't anything that we are going to do to Johan that is going to make Andrew feel any better.  There isn't anything we are going to do to Amy that is going to make Andrew feel any better either.  What might make Andrew feel better is knowing that his criticism helped make things better, and that we appreciate his time in sharing it.  It might make him feel better knowing that several of us agreed with him then and now -- and I know that is true.

So in the spirit of my own advice:

1)  I think the sharing of private emails without consent is wrong.

2)  I am cc'ing Johan at the last known working email address I have for him.  

@Johan, please remove the private email.  Your point would be made so much stronger with positive information rather than negative.

3)  I am cc'ing Andrew.

@Andrew, thank you very much for sending that email when you did.  It is always great to get constructive, thoughtful feedback and suggestions on how to improve processes and fix problems with Joomla.  I know it isn't always easy to do that and I sincerely appreciate it.

4)  Because of the concerns that Andrew had (among many others) and lots of conversations amongst ourselves and with the community the PLT has come up with and published our new Joomla Development Strategy <http://developer.joomla.org/strategy.html>  I would encourage all of those interested to read it (it is somewhat long) and if there are questions please ask them.  You can always reach me @ louis....@joomla.org.  Do know that I am often slow to respond.  I am very busy with work these days, and don't have as much time as I once did, but I will do my best to get back with you.  Additionally there are lots of other people on the PLT that you could contact as well.  We have moved to a time-based release cycle and a more open, community driven development approach to address most of the concerns Andrew pointed out in his email.

5)  I'm off to a day full of meetings at work, but will be reviewing some pull requests on github tonight with any luck.  Joomla on!

- Louis

Development Coordinator
Joomla! ... because open source matters.
http://www.joomla.org

[Jacques Rentzke]

Thank you Louis for sharing your views.

Reading all the views here and on JPeople, it is clear to me that people
have very different views on history based on their personal experience;
their knowledge of the context; and sometimes simply on how they choose
to spin the facts for their own purposes.

The published email seemed harsh to me. I however personally do not have
the knowledge of the surrounding events to judge it in context, and I'm
not sure what the use would be for me to do that 18 months after the fact.

In the feedback-comments (on JPeople) Svein Wisnaes made a strong
argument for having official communication open. In general, I support
that view that we need to have more communication in the open, but it
can be a bit more complicated in practice.

The published email was for instance a letter from an influential
community member *to* the leadership of that time. It was the choice of
that person not to post it to an open forum or Google list.
I personally would not like it much if I sent an email to the leadership
of an organization, and they (or someone connected) then published it.

The question I have for those (at all levels) who are creating more
drama about this is:
Is this not more about attacking personalities, then the actual events?

If [insert-name-of-person-you-don't-like] had sent that email to
Leadership, and we published it to prove some point, and I tweeted about
it or linked to it from another site, would everyone's response have
been exactly the same? I doubt it.

> My question to you all is this: how does the Leadership Team wish to
> respond to such situations?

- Leadership team should affirm that people can communicate with us in
confidence, and respect someone's personal choice on it being private or
public. (I think we've done that here)

- Leadership team should also lead by example in treating everyone
with respect in our communications, and ask all to do the same.

- Whoever published that private email, should be asked to remove it.

- We should all leave old battles and grudges behind and move one.

- No further action is required.

Thank you to all who also shared their views on JPeople. The challenge
there is how we deal with the feedback that we invited (and that may not
be flattering to our ears).

Jacques Rentzke
Secretary of the Board
Open Source Matters, Inc.

On 2011/05/23 07:17 AM, Louis Landry wrote:
> I've been in Shanghai on business (still am), but I wanted to take a
> little time to address some problems I have with this discussion.
> Shanghai, by the way, is a lovely place and I highly recommend it. :)
>
> Before I continue, I would kindly ask that no one "tweet" quotes from my
> email. There is no way to accurately convey my thoughts in 140
> characters or less. If you cherry pick certain quotes that make you
> seem smart or suit the message you want to get across then you are a
> part of the problem, not the solution. We do entirely too much of that
> as a community. The in-fighting has to stop, it does nothing to make
> anyone's life or the Joomla project better.
>
> 1) The code of conduct is a great document that outlines the principles
> of how we expect to interact with each other. It is not law. It is not
> a set of commandments. It is a document that outlines what we expect of
> each other. I am tired of it being waved around by people as some sort
> of tool to showcase how someone didn't behave properly. I would much

> rather us act on principles than rules -- and only when *absolutely
> necessary* to maintain a productive, healthy environment for people.

> louis....@joomla.org <mailto:louis....@joomla.org>. Do know that

> I am often slow to respond. I am very busy with work these days, and
> don't have as much time as I once did, but I will do my best to get back
> with you. Additionally there are lots of other people on the PLT that
> you could contact as well. We have moved to a time-based release cycle
> and a more open, community driven development approach to address most
> of the concerns Andrew pointed out in his email.
>
> 5) I'm off to a day full of meetings at work, but will be reviewing
> some pull requests on github tonight with any luck. Joomla on!
>
> - Louis
>
> On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 8:26 AM, Sandra Warren
> <sandra...@community.joomla.org

> <mailto:sandra...@community.joomla.org>> wrote:
>
> Marijke and all
>
> I don't see how any tweets or retweets would be against the CoC as
> those people who tweet or RT etc... would assume that the original
> blog poster had exercised proper approval to post a private email.
> I think we all assume that when we tweet something.
>
> Thank you
> Sandra
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Marijke Stuivenberg

> <marijkest...@gmail.com <mailto:marijkest...@gmail.com>>

> <mailto:wendy.r...@community.joomla.org>>

>
> I can only agree with what others have said about the
> publishing of private information without the consent of all
> parties - most especially the references made to the
> numerous violations of Joomla's code of conduct.
>
> Can we prevent people from doing this? Evidently, no. People
> choose their own actions, attitude, behaviour etc.
>
> But, we can let the Joomla community, our working group
> members, and most of all the people directly affected by it
> that we think it is unacceptable.
>
> I'd be all for posting a comment regarding how we feel about
> publishing private information in public without consent of
> all parties. But I think that such a statement would be
> more appropriate somewhere at joomla.org

> <http://joomla.org>. I also feel that we should acknowledge
> the contributions of *all* community members, working group

> members and volunteers - not just a select few - and offer
> an apology to them for this breach of what should be, at all
> times, a safe and positive working environment where they do
> not have worry about fellow community members attacking them
> or their ideas.
>
> At the same time, make a statement that we will work as
> leaders to make a better effort to show that our coc is
> actually important to us. If it's not, and if we're not
> going to a) adhere to it ourselves and b) uphold it at all
> times for the community then really, it doesn't mean a thing.
>
> I agree with Matt, that zero tolerance for harassment is the
> way to go - just as it should be in any working environment
> - and I also agree that we need guidelines in place that
> determine what is and what is not acceptable. That much is
> way overdue.
>
> Wendy
>
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Sandra Warren
> <sandra...@community.joomla.org

> <mailto:sandra...@community.joomla.org>> wrote:
>
> I forgot to add,
>
> I fully support zero tolerance for Harassing and breach
> of privacy at a minimum.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Sandra Warren
> <sandra...@community.joomla.org

> volunteers that serve our community*in a

> respectful, considerate, and collaborative way

> that is consistent with the Code of Conduct.*".

> I would add that volunteers who are not doing
> that should either step aside or be asked to
> step aside so that room can be made for other
> volunteers who can serve the community in the
> right way.
>
> Thanks,
>
> paul
>
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Matt Lipscomb
> <matt.l...@community.joomla.org

> <mailto:joomla-l...@googlegroups.com>.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email
> to
> joomla-leaders...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:joomla-leadership%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-leadership?hl=en.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are
> subscribed to the Google Groups "Joomla
> Leadership" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> joomla-l...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:joomla-l...@googlegroups.com>.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> joomla-leaders...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:joomla-leadership%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-leadership?hl=en.
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to
> the Google Groups "Joomla Leadership" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> joomla-l...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:joomla-l...@googlegroups.com>.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> joomla-leaders...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:joomla-leadership%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-leadership?hl=en.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google Groups "Joomla Leadership" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> joomla-l...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:joomla-l...@googlegroups.com>.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> joomla-leaders...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:joomla-leadership%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-leadership?hl=en.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google Groups "Joomla Leadership" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> joomla-l...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:joomla-l...@googlegroups.com>.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> joomla-leaders...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:joomla-leadership%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-leadership?hl=en.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Joomla Leadership" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> joomla-l...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:joomla-l...@googlegroups.com>.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> joomla-leaders...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:joomla-leadership%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-leadership?hl=en.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Development Coordinator
> Joomla! ... because open source matters.
> http://www.joomla.org
>

[Dianne Henning]

Louis,

Thank you for so eloquently putting into words what my thoughts on this have been.

Joomla!, as a community, can be so much better with a positive voice. It is, as you said, time to move on.
Dianne

[Andrea Tarr]

Louis,

Thank you for a very thoughtful and well expressed post. It expresses much of what I was thinking.

It's time to work together in a positive manner.

Andy

_______________________________________________________
Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting
http://www.doteasy.com

[Sandra Warren]

Jacques I agree with this summary

Thank you
Sandra

[Brad Baker]

Is this what is called "Group Consensus"? :D

[Alice Grevet]

+1 from me.

Alice

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Brad Baker <br...@joomlatutorials.com> wrote:

Is this what is called "Group Consensus"? :D

--

[Andrea Tarr]

I agree with it, too.

Andy

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Joomla Leadership" group.
To post to this group, send email to joomla-l...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to joomla-leaders...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-leadership?hl=en.

[Robert Deutz]

I agree with the points made by Louis and the summary from Jacques,
but I'll add some thoughts about two things:

1) Johan post
I am very disappointed about that post, it wasn't necessary to quote
Andrew's email. It doesn't support the message, the only reason to
include it is from my POV to bring Andrew in a bad light. That is far
from fair and if Johan need a reason why he didn't deserve the
J.O.S.C.A.R, I have now a real one for him.

2) Zero Tolerance
I don't like that word combination. I think it has no room in an open
source project in general and particularly in Joomla! as a world wide
community driven project. What we really need is maximun tolerance and
understanding. Life is difficult and it isn't black and white. As we
see in this discussion, we are in an agreement that posting a private
email conversation is a bad thing but we are also not in an agreement
what is the appropriate action. Can we all say that our judgment is
not influenced from personal feelings and experiences with specific
people? (rhetorical question)

Let us move forward.

Cheers,
Robert

On 24 Mai, 01:22, Andrea Tarr <sue...@andytarr.com> wrote:
> I agree with it, too.
>
> Andy
>
> On May 23, 2011, at 6:31 PM, Sandra Warren wrote:
>
>
>
> > Jacques I agree with this summary
>
> > Thank you
> > Sandra
>
> >   - Leadership team should affirm that people can communicate with us in confidence, and respect someone's personal choice on it being private or public. (I think we've done that here)
>
> >  - Leadership team should also lead by example in treating everyone with respect in our communications, and ask all to do the same.
>
> >  - Whoever published that private email, should be asked to remove it.
>
> >  - We should all leave old battles and grudges behind and move one.
>
> >  - No further action is required.
>
> > Thank you to all who also shared their views on JPeople. The challenge there is how we deal with the feedback that we invited (and that may not be flattering to our ears).
>
> > Jacques Rentzke
> > Secretary of the Board
> > Open Source Matters, Inc.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Joomla Leadership" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to joomla-l...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to joomla-leaders...@googlegroups.com.

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/joomla-leadership?hl=en.

[Paul Orwig]

Thanks Louis, Jacques, and Robert for adding your well thought out points to this discussion!

+1 from me

paul