Unified Payment Plugins

[Ashwin Date]

Today's web is so much about e-commerce that every other extension
development company is making an e-commerce extension. What we really
need is to concentrate their efforts on developing a standard set of
payment gateway plugins, rather than each one developing their own.

My idea is thus -

Create a new plugin type - payments and then we can have plugins for
paypal, authorise and every other provider you have heard of. We then
work with a standard list of things, accept payment, postprocessing
etc. So a standard 'payments' type plugin set is something that all
devs can use. I think several developers already have re-usable
plugins that everyone can benefit from. I think it's just about
spreading the word that such things are available and can be
leveraged ?

Drupal relies largely on this approach and the devs there seem to be
spending a lot of quality time on writing only 1 (well, in most cases)
module for a single function.


Thoughts ?

[Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos]

Hi Ashwin,

During the recent J and Beyond 2011 conference I had the chance to talk with the guys from Zoolanders.com. They had the same idea as you. I have also heard the same wish expressed by other developers, yours truly included. However, while this is a very good idea, I'm not sure if this class of plugins has a place in the Joomla! core. Instead, I believe it should be spun off as a joint venture of Joomla! extensions developers and made into an installable library.

Cheers,

-- 
Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos
Lead Developer, AkeebaBackup.com

Blog: http://www.dionysopoulos.me/blog

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Joomla! General Development" group.
To post to this group, send an email to joomla-de...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to joomla-dev-gene...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-general?hl=en-GB.

[Ashwin Date]

I agree,

I thought of posting this first in the framework google group and then
thought that we dont need this in the framework, it needs to be
something that is external, and done in collaboration. In fact this
does not extend to just payment plugins but a lot of code that a lot
of developers re-invent!

As for collaboration, what do you think is the best way to go about
these plugins ?

On Jun 9, 6:22 pm, "Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos" <nikosd...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > To post to this group, send an email to joomla-de...@googlegroups.com (mailto:joomla-de...@googlegroups.com).
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to joomla-dev-gene...@googlegroups.com (mailto:joomla-dev-gene...@googlegroups.com).

[sid]

If I am not mistaken, there are plans to include some thing of this sort in the framework. Not sure when this will be a reality though.
This defn. a great idea and good for joomla.

sudhi

To post to this group, send an email to joomla-de...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to joomla-dev-gene...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-general?hl=en-GB.

--
Thanks & Regards
Sudhi
Founder & Chief Architect
Hooduku Inc
Plexicloud
1.888.262.8389
http://www.hooduku.com
http://www.plexicloud.com

[Geraint Edwards]

On 09/06/2011 14:22, Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos wrote:

Hi Ashwin,

During the recent J and Beyond 2011 conference I had the chance to talk with the guys from Zoolanders.com. They had the same idea as you. I have also heard the same wish expressed by other developers, yours truly included. However, while this is a very good idea, I'm not sure if this class of plugins has a place in the Joomla! core. Instead, I believe it should be spun off as a joint venture of Joomla! extensions developers and made into an installable library.

Cheers,

-- 
Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos
Lead Developer, AkeebaBackup.com

Blog: http://www.dionysopoulos.me/blog

I was involved in a completely separate set of discussions at JandBeyond on the same topic with the RedComponent guys and Weble.

I think a common platform for handling payments, refunds, disputes etc. would enable the development of a whole raft of powerful addons for Joomla or new apps built in the Joomla platform,  that would leave the competition in the dust.

I agree that an installable library/plugins is probably the best way to go.

Geraint

[David-Andrew]

This would be a good development. Just want to note that it will not be a solution for all payment methods in the world. The Dutch payment method iDEAL, for example, is a bit more complex with different iDEAL account types and connection methods. But off course, it is possible. 

Actually, cciDEAL Platform is a little bit based on the idea:

http://www.chillcreations.com/joomla-extensions/ccideal-platform-ideal-dutch-payment-joomla-extensions.html

I wanted to have one platform where all extension developers could communicate with (10 lines of code) and then let cciDEAL Platform handle the iDEAL communication with the banks. In this way extension developers can add the popular Dutch payment method easily, without having to dive into the iDEAL technical documentation (which the banks wont even share if you are not Dutch). 

====

How do we get this going? 

[Franz]

A very good idea, but the only way to make it real is from a
cooperation between the major actors from the e-commerce extension
environment: VirtueMart, redComponent, Tienda, just to name a few. Or,
from a third party developer who just feels like helping all these
projects. Or... now that i think of it... from the companies
themselves (don't you think PayPal could be interested in developing a
plugin for Joomla)?

Anyway, this is definitely NOT a job for the Joomla core team.

P.S. if anyone really starts building standard payment plugins for
Joomla, i could be interested in joining the effort.

[Ashwin Date]

HI Franz,
We could start with Paypal & Auth.net since those seem to be the most
favoured ones.

As a side note I spoke to Thomas Kahl at JAB 11 and he is working on a
very similar approach, where he seems to be building a shopping cart
using a plugin architecture whereby you have the facility of being
able to 'sell' any 'content' on your site. He will have a demo in a
few weeks and would be interesting to see this approach as well!

@Geraint, If you can get Daniel from Weble to contribute his ideas
here too, that would be good!


Thanks
Ashwin

[Andrew Eddie]

Hi all

Payment plugins are definitely on the radar for the Joomla Platform so
I suggest moving the conversation to the Framework list and seeing who
is interested in working together on it. I have some work done for
1.6 for Paypal IPN I'm happy to share. Base level support for carts
and subscriptions is also something that goes hand-in-hand with this
type of project.

Regards,
Andrew Eddie
http://learn.theartofjoomla.com - training videos for Joomla 1.6 developers

[Mike Carson]

I don't really think this is a framework function. The problem with
this is that every extension uses their own classes and calls for
payment gateway plugins that might be unique. For instance my Event
Registration Pro extension has all of our payment options written as
Joomla plugins, but they all require their own unique class for my
extension so that my extension updates the component. How can you have
a unified payment plugin system because that plugin would not know
which extension is calling it and how can that plugin know how to
update the proper extension that the purchase was processed with.
Maybe I am not understanding this properly but I do not see this
working smoothly at all and feel it is much easier to still have
plugins written specifically for each extension. I'd like to hear some
additional thoughts on how you feel this could work and be beneficial
to all of us that write commerce extensions.

[Mike Carson]

But how can this be done if each extension requires the payment
plugins to have it's own class related to that extension? For instance
my Event Registration Pro extension has 30+ payment options available
and they are all written as Joomla Plugins. If they were somehow a
"unified" plugin, how would that plugin know which extension the
purchase was processed through? How would it know which extension to
confirm the payment? I really do not think this is a viable option. I
would like to hear more thoughts on how you feel this would work.
As for this being a part of the framework itself, I do not think that
is a viable option either as it would be a nightmare to maintain. You
would have WAY too many people wanting every payment option in the
world and I do not feel that this is practical to have in the core.

It is a good initial though, but I would like to hear some more
defined ideas on how we could make this work and also make it
practical.

You have to keep in mind that the payment processors are consistently
updating and changing security authentication methods fairly
regularly. So you have to consider maintenance. Who would maintain
this?

Mike

[Andrew Eddie]

Bring it up on the framework list and we'll explore how to separate
the base functions (that is, the payment API) from the implementation
(that is, plugins to implement the API) :)

Regards,
Andrew Eddie
http://learn.theartofjoomla.com - training videos for Joomla 1.6 developers

[Parth Lawate]

Hi,

Payment plugins part of framework or not .. I am not sure.. But yes it could a great add on Library option. We at @techjoomla would be willing to contribute code for this & also start using this in 3 of our products where we are unifying the payment systems anyways.. We contribute the code to the Platform / outside project - we can decide where.. I am sure there will be lots of contributors for this..

Now that a lot of us agree on this, lets get some action :)
Lets make this happen people ! What do you say we put a 15 Day deadline to get the framework & API Discussions done & a 2 month Deadline post that to have atleast the basic API, Paypal & Authorize.net done ?

GO go #joomla !

[Andrew Eddie]

Hi Parth.

Could you possibly push the timeframe out to end of July. We have two
product releases (CMS 1.7 and Platform 11.1) over the next month :)

Regards,
Andrew Eddie
http://learn.theartofjoomla.com - training videos for Joomla 1.6 developers

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Joomla! General Development" group.

> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/joomla-dev-general/-/vrPrW0iqogcJ.

[ykorotia]

Create some regular interface and who follows this will get cool icon
'Certified by Joomla Team" or something similar.

IPayment or something. I'm not strong in these commerces, but talk
about plugin, no, that's going to be pluginS, many plugins.


If someone has time to check available payments apis and then put it
into some comparition.. that's going to be greate work to produce
really regular interface for all of them.

and then..

[Ashwin Date]

I am of the opinion that the framework could be kept very light.
However it also makes sense to have it in core since every other
extension needs this.
I'm adding this to the framework group.


- Ashwin

[Oleg Nesterov]

Hi guys.

I integrated Paypal, Paypal Pro, Moneybookers, Googlecheckout,
Authorize.net, Avangate, LibertyReserve, Moneris, Plimus and PSIGate
(including recurring payments) into Ambra.Subscriptions component by
Dioscouri Design. BTW, these plugins were chosen lately as a basis for
Tienda's ones.

I'm not sure the core is the right place to place such a plugin but
the idea itself is great.
Let me know if you need any help from me.

Thanks.

[greg keys]

I don't think it should be in the core. I agee that the core should be kept very light.

It would however be great as an addon library. Perhaps we could look at making something similar to the mootools more addon/directory of community extensions.

They could be a set of central addons which developers would be encouraged to use.

We were considering contributing our geocoding api to such a directory/set of libraries.

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Joomla! General Development" group.

[Russell Winter]

I like the idea of having "core" (+joint 3PD & Joomla! Project) developed libraries, API's and extensions etc being made available, something along the lines of the many features that have been asked to go in to core, but would add "weight" but would also be extremely useful to many, but not all.  

Differing from 3rd Party, in the manner that these would be Joomla! Project delivered, supported and managed.  This would provide additional "core" functionality and "cross-extension" compatibility, but not within the base distribution.   

Now the framework and CMS are separated, this could be considered a "middle-ware" style area of both.

Things like libraries and API's alone, tend not to be developed by 3rd Parties unless it is part of their own extension, and each extension tends to have it's own implementation and not integrate with other extensions, whereas a centrally managed "core library" set might foster commonality in library calls and API functionality, improving extension compatibility and increasing integration opportunities without always using 3PD custom, "per-integration" API's.

[JM Simonet]

At 6:47 +1000 19/06/11, Russell Winter wrote:

I like the idea of having "core" (+joint 3PD & Joomla! Project) developed libraries, API's and extensions etc being made available, something along the lines of the many features that have been asked to go in to core, but would add "weight" but would also be extremely useful to many, but not all.

Differing from 3rd Party, in the manner that these would be Joomla! Project delivered, supported and managed.

If the idea is good indeed to get these available on our sites, let's not forget that getting them managed by the project would add to the workload of Bugsquad volunteers and PLT.

 

JM

Merci de ne pas renvoyer de pièces attachées automatiquement.

------------------

Jean-Marie Simonet/infograf

info...@orange.fr

http://www.info-graf.fr

[Russell Winter]

Hi JM, 

yes, of course you are correct regarding the extra workload, I had considered that, but also felt that the reduced issues around compatibly (forward and backward) in the future might be a counter-balance to that, not to mention to benefits to the 3PD community  and general community with regards to extension integration and consistencies.

But, as ever, these are merely thoughts, being put forward by myself in response to discussion and I do not have the complete picture or fully understand the current API and roadmaps for either the framework or CMS, as well as not having the skills or abilities to contribute in any useful manner to helping make this sort of this happen.

On 19 June 2011 14:32, JM Simonet <infog...@gmail.com> wrote:

At 6:47 +1000 19/06/11, Russell Winter wrote:

I like the idea of having "core" (+joint 3PD & Joomla! Project) developed libraries, API's and extensions etc being made available, something along the lines of the many features that have been asked to go in to core, but would add "weight" but would also be extremely useful to many, but not all.

Differing from 3rd Party, in the manner that these would be Joomla! Project delivered, supported and managed.

If the idea is good indeed to get these available on our sites, let's not forget that getting them managed by the project would add to the workload of Bugsquad volunteers and PLT.

 

JM

Merci de ne pas renvoyer de pièces attachées automatiquement.

------------------

Jean-Marie Simonet/infograf

info...@orange.fr

http://www.info-graf.fr

--

[elin]

I really like this idea, especially because since 1.6 it's really easy to add new libraries using the installer and of course you could also install easily from a shared location.  

As I understand it, one of the goals of platform separation is to encourage more contributions of things of this type, and I wonder if in this case it would be sensible to designate a maintainer/maintenance team who would probably be mainly the interested parties and if they stop maintaining it means that it's not useful to those parties any more and it gets dropped.

Elin