Received: by 10.52.33.4 with SMTP id n4mr1665038vdi.1.1334757481946; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 06:58:01 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.248.81 with SMTP id mf17ls301690vcb.7.gmail; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 06:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.74.233 with SMTP id x9mr142760vdv.15.1334757479890; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 06:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 06:57:59 -0700 (PDT) From: elin To: joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <17959494.1513.1334757479558.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbda10> In-Reply-To: References: <4820526.840.1334709986878.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynbv36> Subject: Re: [jcms] Re: 3-.0 Admin Template projects - asking for Feedback MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_1511_25824109.1334757479555" ------=_Part_1511_25824109.1334757479555 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1512_32790858.1334757479555" ------=_Part_1512_32790858.1334757479555 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Angie did and does testing with actual users who rely on assistive technology. The results of one round of that were, in fact, we and the idea for and then picked the Hathor project for GSoC in 2009 and have been happily at the forefront of providing access to all to all aspects of web interaction since 1.6 was released. Elin On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 10:10:55 PM UTC-4, Amy Stephen wrote: > > Might be good to link to the 508 and other accessiblity testing you are > speaking about so that folks understand what is expected. I can't remember > extensive tracker ball and screen reader testing but even if a few of these > items are identified it can be a good jumping off point for those working > together on the new templates. > > On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 7:46 PM, elin wrote: > >> As far as I know new templates are new features and have to go through >> the same testing and commenting as anything else. Once something is >> accepted then the JBS takes over and solves any problems that are found. >> >> It would probably be a good idea to collect some screen shots in various >> languages that use longer strings since that will also have to be accounted >> for. If you pass them along then perhaps that team can solve. >> >> This isn't a comment about that specific template (which I can't say I >> have looked at in depth) but baseline requirements for any template would >> for me have to include >> working in RTL >> working in languages that use long words >> meet the same accessibility standards (508, etc) that Hathor and Beez >> meet. I'll leave that to the experts but if someone using only a tracker >> ball or a screen reader can't use it then I don't think it's okay to ship. >> But we have months to make things work. >> >> My main concern in general is that no existing site or template break >> during the move to 3.0. >> >> Elin >> >> >> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 12:55:04 PM UTC-4, infograf768 wrote: >>> >>> Folks, >>> >>> after this post >>> http://community.joomla.org/**blogs/community/1568-30-first-**look.html >>> I downloaded the project itself and installed it >>> https://github.com/Joomla3-**Admin-template/joomla-cms/** >>> zipball/template >>> >>> Obviously it is unfinished and my feedback will not concern the >>> unfinished parts. >>> (No descriptions displayed during installation, Options toolbar broken, >>> Articles Titles and Category field missing, menu items associations, etc.) >>> Nevertheless I am concerned about this design generally speaking. >>> >>> 1. This template's name should be called "Scroller" instead of >>> "Strapped" ( ;-) ), for the need to scroll all over the UI is so >>> important that we immediately feel the urge to recover our good old 1.5 >>> templates where the scrolls there were sometimes important but not >>> systematic. >>> 2. In the whole admin, the choice to display a menu on left with a >>> fixed width is creating many issues. >>> Even in English, and* at fortiori* in other languages, the labels >>> occupy 2 or more lines for some. >>> This can be seen in the left menu and also in the columns heads of the >>> Managers. >>> The Manager Titles are unreadable as they are cut, even in English. >>> >>> 3. No RTL consideration at all for now >>> >>> 4. I am not a fan either of the black and white icons. Colour is an >>> important bonus for usability. >>> >>> 5. I welcome some of the Tabs but used systematically for everything == >>> lost of time >>> >>> I sincerely hope it will be possible to improve/change these issues. >>> >>> Feedback welcome. >>> >>> JM >>> >>> -- >>> >>> *Please keep the Subject wording in your answers* >>> >>> This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential. You must not >>> disclose or use the information contained in this e-mail if you are not the >>> intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in error, please >>> notify us immediately and delete the e-mail and all copies. >>> ------------------------------**----------------------------- >>> Jean-Marie Simonet / infograf768 >>> Joomla Production Working group >>> Joomla! Translation Coordination Team >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Joomla! CMS Development" group. >> To view this discussion on the web, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/joomla-dev-cms/-/Q_K2orkY9-AJ. >> To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB. >> > > ------=_Part_1512_32790858.1334757479555 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Angie did and does testing with actual users who rely on assistive technology. The results of one round of that were, in fact, we and the idea for and then picked the Hathor project for GSoC in 2009 and have been happily at the forefront of providing access to all to all aspects of web interaction since 1.6 was released.

Elin

On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 10:10:55 PM UTC-4, Amy Stephen wrote:
Might be good to link to the 508 and other accessiblity testing you are speaking about so that folks understand what is expected. I can't remember extensive tracker ball and screen reader testing but even if a few of these items are identified it can be a good jumping off point for those working together on the new templates.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 7:46 PM, elin <elin.war...@gmail.com> wrote:
As far as I know new templates are new features and have to go through the same testing and commenting as anything else. Once something is accepted then the JBS takes over and solves any problems that are found.

It would probably be a good idea to collect some screen shots in various languages that use longer strings since that will also have to be accounted for. If you pass them along then perhaps that team can solve.

This isn't a comment about that specific template (which I can't say I have looked at in depth) but baseline requirements for any template would  for me have to include 
working in RTL
working in languages that use long words
meet the same accessibility standards (508, etc) that Hathor and Beez meet. I'll leave that to the experts but if someone using only a tracker ball or a screen reader can't use it then I don't think it's  okay to ship. But we have months to make things work.

My main concern in general is that no existing site or template break during the move to 3.0.

Elin


On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 12:55:04 PM UTC-4, infograf768 wrote:
Folks,

after this post
I downloaded the project itself and installed it
https://github.com/Joomla3-Admin-template/joomla-cms/zipball/template

Obviously it is unfinished and my feedback will not concern the unfinished parts.
(No descriptions displayed during installation, Options toolbar broken, Articles Titles and Category field missing, menu items associations, etc.)
Nevertheless I am concerned about this design generally speaking.

1. This template's name should be called "Scroller" instead of "Strapped"  ( ;-)  ), for the need to scroll all over the UI is so important that we immediately feel the urge to recover our good old 1.5 templates where the scrolls there were sometimes important but not systematic.
2. In the whole admin, the choice to display a menu on left with a fixed width is creating many issues.
Even in English, and at fortiori in other languages, the labels occupy 2 or more lines for some.
This can be seen in the left menu and also in the columns heads of the Managers.
The Manager Titles are unreadable as they are cut, even in English.

3. No RTL consideration at all for now

4. I am not a fan either of the black and white icons. Colour is an important bonus for usability.

5. I welcome some of the Tabs but used systematically for everything == lost of time

I sincerely hope it will be possible to improve/change these issues.

Feedback welcome.

JM

--
Please keep the Subject wording in your answers
This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential. You must not disclose or use the information contained in this e-mail if you are not the
intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail and all copies.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jean-Marie Simonet  /  infograf768
Joomla Production Working group
Joomla! Translation Coordination Team 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/joomla-dev-cms/-/Q_K2orkY9-AJ.
To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.

------=_Part_1512_32790858.1334757479555-- ------=_Part_1511_25824109.1334757479555--