Version 1.6 Status

[Mark Dexter]

Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6
beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major
tasks and their status:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWoacj1Qm3bNs05Huh_DcLA&gid=6

As you can see, we've made a lot of progress but still have more work
to do. Thanks. Mark

[pollen8]

Hi Mark

Thanks for sharing that -
With reference to "priority 2 #6 - Weblinks able to display in raw
form (no click tracking)"
I did some work on the weblinks component and I believe that there is
the option to link directly to the URL rather than click tracking
already exists.
Not sure if the patch I submitted made it into the SVN - but there
should be a parameter 'count_clicks' which defines this option

Cheers
Rob

[klas berlič]

There is one task missing from this list - cache that is not working in 1.6. at all. Includes framework bugs and not-implemeted on CMS level (not implemented in any component, also missing from some modules).

Solvable by incorporation of my branch, but still somehning  that needs to be done before beta.

2010/4/7 Mark Dexter <dexter...@gmail.com>

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[Hannes Papenberg]

Hi Mark,
I'm very happy, that this list has finally been made public, however I'm
wondering why the point "Frontend language switcher/filter" is still on
that list as just "10%" done. We had looong talks about this, where we
agreed upon adding language fields to the database tables so that a
third party extension could more easily implement multi-linguality into
the Joomla core components. We specifically said that we didn't want to
implement multi-lingual content in 1.6. This has been the general
consensus after the release of 1.5 2 years ago, it was the general
consensus 1 year ago when I was asked to do the release management of
1.6 and it was the general consensus half a year ago, when we last
talked about the feature list of 1.6.

We agreed upon this, because we all thought it would need more thought
and basically a complete rewrite of com_content to implement
multi-lingual content here and that we didn't want to delay 1.6 for yet
another year because of this.

I REALLY want to get 1.6 out of the door and would ask you to postpone
this task till 1.7.

Hannes

[Ole Ottosen (ot2sen)]

Hannes,

 

Had you listened more carefully to those loong talks, then you would be clear that the language switch is not near any multilingual content solution or to be a full blown content translation tool. ;)

 

Simply a switch to provide end-users and webmasters with option to show content/menus/mods only with the language tagged for each of these. So its a language switch basically, not multilingual just one language at a time and whatever would match that language.

 

It was agreed to before alpha2 released, and international community was clear it would first be added before beta. Nothing new really.

 

PLT obviously could have decided otherwise on this recently, but I dont think intention is to go further than described.

 

Cheers,

 

Ole

[Hannes Papenberg]

Ok, so then what is the difference between a multi-lingual site and
switching the language of content, modules and menus?

Hannes

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[infograf768]

http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms/browse_thread/thread/3a84e3c0004404d3?hl=en-GB#

[Hannes Papenberg]

And the questions posted there were not answered.

I have three requirements for Joomla at this moment:
1. Working with Joomla has to be intuitive, both as an administrator and
as a website-visitor
2. Features in Joomla, especially those touching core functionality,
should be complete implementations and not stop half-way.
3. Joomla 1.6 Beta has to be released ASAP.

In the thread that you have mentioned, you are describing a behaviour
that is not intuitive, at least not to me. Why should the filter
redirect you to the homepage - each time? What do you do if the homepage
isn't the featured view of com_content? What if it is a component that
does not support multi-lingual content? Is the language switch
represented in the URL and if so, how is it done? How is the switcher
realised? With a module? How do you decide if that module is supposed to
show up when you are on a subpage where you either can't select a
different language, because you are in an article or where you don't
know if there are content items in this category or in its children with
mixed language? How do you get back to the "original" language? If you
are switching both content and modules, how should Joomla work if you
didn't select a language? Should it show all 10 modules that I have on
the page, times the number of languages that I have installed? If you
are only showing the modules of one type of language, why do you show
all articles regardless of the language? From the perspective of a new
users of Joomla: I want to create a multi-lingual site and I'm selecting
the article to be slovenien and I'm creating the same article just in
russian instead. I see that Joomla has a language switcher. I publish
that one on all my pages. I click on the russian language (BTW: Is it
the word russian or a flag? How is that flag styled?) and instead of
seeing my article in russian, I'm redirected to the home menu item or
the category of the current article, but I see no russian articles. I've
said it before and I'm saying this again: This is not intuitive and it
is not what users will expect from this feature. I hated having to tell
every second user how to switch off the "Welcome to the Frontpage" and I
honestly don't want to have to tell every user why the language switcher
does not behave like he or she expected it to, like it does on every
other website out there.

I'm also wondering who from the PLT approved of this feature. Its not
like this is the first time that we've been talking about this and
besides Jean-Marie, Ole and Christophe, who are in the PLT to coordinate
language changes, all other members either had no opinion on this or
didn't really want to add it to 1.6 since it has several side-effects
and is to huge to implement just now. I'm happy to say this again, but
if you insist on implementing this feature, it will delay the release of
Joomla 1.6 Beta for at least another 6 months, more likely a full year.

Hannes

[Matias Aguirre]

Hi Mark,

What is the idea for 1.5 to 1.6 upgrade? im working on jUpgrade so i
like to know if i can help with something.

Take care

[elin]

What about the vcard issue that was a beta blocker earlier? Do you
have a decision on that?

Also, Mark, I don't know where you put this, but an upgrade path for
templates is essential and that's a little bit of a different issue
than other upgrades I think. Someone needs to start docs for that
ASAP.

Elin

[Hannes Papenberg]

The vcard issue is a none-issue and should be working atm. There also is
no real upgrade for templates. They have to either adapt to the new CSS
or use the overrides, which we are going to provide as soon as the
normal core layouts are stable. If they are using custom overrides, they
have to adapt to the new layouts by themselfs.

Hannes

[elin]

Although not a beta blocker, there needs to be very very clear step by
step guidance on how to adapt a 1.5 template to 1.6. However, doing a
diff of Milky Way as it is in 1.6 and Milky Way as it is in 1.5 I
guess I'm not seeing the impossibility issue in the same way you are.
The biggest change is the countModules one I mentioned earlier today,
$list[prefix] : string in pagination, and some shifts in the xml to
use jform. Almost all the other changes changes are coding style and
accessibility.

Elin

[Andrew Eddie]

Hannes, I am only going to say this once. If you want to be this
critical about something someone else is working on, then expect the
*same* critical treatment with your categories branch. You don't have
to agree with it but if you want to make a fuss then don't complain if
people object to your pet features you are working on. JM and
Christophe are working on it, it's not bothering you. If they fail to
make it work, it won't get into the trunk. Likewise, if anything you
(or I) do doesn't work, it won't go into trunk. Fair?

Regards,
Andrew Eddie
http://www.theartofjoomla.com - the art of becoming a Joomla developer

[Andrew Eddie]

Hi Matias.

The upgrader will need to be done by the time we end the beta cycle.
It would have been nice to have it for beta but it just wasn't to be.
Any assistance you can give will be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Andrew Eddie
http://www.theartofjoomla.com - the art of becoming a Joomla developer

[klas berlič]

Please think twice and test for performance degradation before adding this - such switch could add much to complexity with a large number of checks and additional queries everywhere and subsequently with potentially large negative impact on performance.

2010/4/7 Hannes Papenberg <hack...@googlemail.com>

[Louis Landry]

Which is why its being done in a branch and can be reviewed before being added to the trunk.  The implications of what it does for performance... or even usefulness will depend entirely upon how it is implemented.  This is something that the translation teams has asked for and we are going to give it every opportunity to be successful.  If it works out that the way its implemented isn't performant enough or is too confusing or just generally doesn't work out, then we can certainly decide not to include it.

Let's not get worked up over what something *could* be and give those working on it the same benefit of the doubt that we would give anyone else.

- Louis

2010/4/7 klas berlič <klas....@gmail.com>

--
Development Coordinator
Joomla! ... because open source matters.
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[Matias Aguirre]

Andrew,

Sure, I will try to get a stable release of jUpgrade when beta is
released but I need some guide on how to act because I do not know how
you plan to deploy the updater. If you want an external component or
something included in Joomla 1.6.

I also know that there are some doubts because I am using jQuery
instead of Mootools but the latter gave me bad results.

Regards

On Apr 7, 6:20 pm, Andrew Eddie <mambob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Matias.
>
> The upgrader will need to be done by the time we end the beta cycle.
> It would have been nice to have it for beta but it just wasn't to be.
> Any assistance you can give will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Regards,

> Andrew Eddiehttp://www.theartofjoomla.com- the art of becoming a Joomla developer

[Hannes Papenberg]

Hello Andrew,
I expect nothing less than that you are critical with my work and that
you look critically at the categories2 branch. However, I think the
"pet" feature that you are talking about is the nested category system
in 1.6. I dare everyone to go into a subcategory and look at the pathway
or link to a category somewhere in the tree and then go into a
subcategory of that category and take a look at the URL. I honestly
believe, that people will rather want to have the features that were
promised to them for the last two years to be working like they expect
them to work, then having another new feature added.

But now back to the issue at hand: The logic that you are presenting
here unfortunately is flawed. You are saying that JM and Christophe are
working on it and if they fail to make it work, it wont go in. This
approach certainly works, but only if you set a deadline for a release.
In this case however, you put that feature on a list that blocks every
release. That means, even if JM and Christophe just stop working and
leave the project and nobody is working on this anymore, we couldn't
release 1.6 because this feature is missing. You are saying that it will
only go in if it makes it before beta and at the same time you are
saying that you will wait for beta to be released until this feature is in.

I value the work that JM and Christophe are doing and I really would
love to see this feature implemented in Joomla, however I also have the
questions that I posted below and even more and nobody cared to answer
them to me. This is also not the first time that I've asked (some of)
these questions.

Joomla is at least 5 years behind on development in terms of technology
and with Joomla 1.6 we might be able to come 3 years closer. But that
still makes us inferior to other projects. We are currently living of of
our huge user base and decent usability, but that is not something that
will stay the same without some progress. Other projects will catch up
(and for example Wordpress has caught up) on usability and then we will
only have the user base. And users will vote with their feet which
system is better. Releasing Joomla 1.6 as soon as possible is key to the
survival of this project. So PLEASE let us focus on the features that
are already in trunk and that we promised the people out there. Let us
make the trunk stable and release a beta soon. If you really stick to
your own word, the release cycle for 1.7 will only be half a year and
this and a lot of other cool features can be implemented. There are at
least a dozen people with code for 1.7 waiting for the 1.6 release.

And yes, it does make a difference if we release this month or in 3
months or in half a year. At this point, every day counts.

Hannes

[klas berlič]

+1 on this one

2010/4/8 Hannes Papenberg <hack...@googlemail.com>

[Gerlof]

+1

> >http://www.theartofjoomla.com- the art of becoming a Joomla developer

> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms/browse_thread/thread/3a...

> ...
>
> meer lezen »

[infograf768]

Hannes,

concerning langswitcher, development was delayed because we had to
concentrate on other issues concerning languages.
It is clear, looking at changelog, that we did in a few weeks what had
not been seriously considered by the former RT.
And it is not finished yet.
1.6 without proper Internationalisation (even a beta) is just useless.
We can't release less than what we got in 1.5 and have to correct what
was wrong in 1.5.
I am now refactoring libraries ini/keys, which are filled with
hardcoded strings or/and JText without sprintf.
Then I will go on consolidating keys with common values when these do
not create issues in any language.
Then working on the ini/keys for the remaining components which still
need heavy lifting/debugging before I can work on them.

When Christophe will be back from holidays, we will work on
langswitcher and in any case, that feature will NOT delay 1.6 for one
second.
There are many more important issues not solved in present trunk which
prevent beta release than langswitcher.
If we are not ready or find issues which would jeopardise 1.7+ proper
full internationalisation, it just will not be included, as Andrew
rightfully wrote above.
This is NOT preventing any of us from doing other necessary stuff to
get a beta out.
Some of your questions above are among the ones we have to deal with
indeed.
So, please just let us breath a bit.
When we feel we can present something solid to all, we will call for
feedback.

Thank you for your attention.

> >http://www.theartofjoomla.com- the art of becoming a Joomla developer

> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms/browse_thread/thread/3a...

> ...
>
> plus de détails »

[Robert]

Hi,

I think we should focus on releasing the 1.6.

I didn't understand the goal for the language switcher, maybe I have
missed something? Anyway I ask myself for what stands the "10% ready"
for: 10% from a day or 10% from a month?

We should only think about doing things in the trunk when we have a
solid concept about what we are adding.

just my 2 cents
Robert

[Angie Radtke]

>>I didn't understand the goal for the language switcher, maybe I have
missed something? Anyway I ask myself for what stands the "10% ready"
for: 10% from a day or 10% from a month?

Hi ,

it seems reasonable for me to get 1.6 out as fast as possible.
A lot of people are still waiting. We reached a lot until now.
The last weeks we all were very busy and we did a big step forward.
To learn how to handle all the new functionalities, joomla offers now, is
hard enough for our users.
So I thing it will be no prob to add this feature later.
Maybe it is even better, than it demands more attention and the users are
more certain with all the new stuff.

Bye Angie

[Matt Thomas]

Is this, and other features, the types of things that could be released in an upgrade package?

Matt

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[Hannes Papenberg]

JM, no one is saying that we should release a 1.6 stable with less
internationalization than what we did with 1.5. However, refactoring
keys can still be done during the beta phase.

Unless I hear some strong arguments against the changes in the
categories2 branch, I will merge the changes over the course of
saturday. Then we will have a pretty solid and working trunk. The only
things really missing from the beta blocker list are the frontend
templates, which basically just wait for the categories2 branch, and the
comments extension. Everything else is done and we will only have to do
bugfixing. However, the list that we are talking about is the beta
blocker list. That means, everything on there is a beta blocker and the
languageswitcher IS on there.

We are not making a step backwards when we implement this switcher in
1.7, which is, as I already wrote earlier today, just half a year away
from the release of 1.6.

Call it a marketing stunt, but only if we release a beta, we will be
able to get people interested in us again and helping out with
bugfixing, development and all the other stuff. I know half a dozen
people that tell and told me that they will look at Joomla again when we
release a (feature-complete) beta, but not before that. I know it
practically is only semantics, but it is important to people and I think
it also is important for us to finally have a new milestone that we reached.

@Matt
These features are certainly not something that we can introduce with an
upgrade package. We can add this in 1.7, but not in a 1.6.x release.

@All
Please let us focus on getting 1.6 beta done. Releasing in summer in my
book is already to late.

Hannes

>> plus de d�tails �
>>
>

[Amy Stephen]

Hannes - you nailed it.

> >http://www.theartofjoomla.com- the art of becoming a Joomla developer

> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms/browse_thread/thread/3a...

> ...
>
> read more »

[elin]

Hannes,

I'm not sure what catastrophe you are expecting, but if release
happens in summer the world will not end.
I suggest that rather than people spending their time and energy
telling JM and Christophe how to spend their voluntarily given time
that this be spent on working on the list of tasks that remain to be
done. Pick a task and work on it, and leave other people to work on
scratching their own itches.

There are also many tasks that could be done now or in beta and if you
don't want to take on one of the large tasks, take on one of those.

And how about instead of spending time on writing long essays about
this someone answering one of the two questions I have asked and not
received replies to? It's not responding to requests for advice/
guidance that is one of the biggest inhibitors to progress.

Elin

> >>>http://www.theartofjoomla.com-the art of becoming a Joomla developer

> ...
>
> read more »

[klas berlič]

Mixing roles and responsibilities is one of the big reasons why things are not so great as the could be.
It is release managers job to care of things like release deadlines and what goes in the release and what not. 

The actual work on tasks is to be done by the rest of us. 

 - over and back to code -

2010/4/8 elin <elin....@gmail.com>

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[Jennifer Marriott]

I have been looking at the template issue and really I am wondering
how can there be a serious discussion of releasing beta without
content layouts done, therefore stopping the show because without that
there in not even a template to go by that allows you to see what must
be adapted. Templates and how they work or (at this time are not
working such as module counting) and the comparison to 1.5 is most
likely an issue that deserves more attention in a serious way before a
beta release is scheduled.

Jenny