Re: [jcms] Clarify Project : Hathor is beautiful

[bhaskar p]

Hi Akshat,

Can you please provide the more details on your project.

Thanks,

Bhaskar.

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Akshat Goel <aksh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Greetings to all,

I am looking forward to participate in GSoC 2013 and one of the projects listed in ideas list is "Project : Hathor is beautiful". Since, any mentor has not been assigned to the project yet, I would like to ask the community if anyone can clarify the estimated roadmap of the project?

Regards,
Akshat

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[Chad Windnagle]

Hi:

So this was asked on our GSoC specific mailing list and I provided a response there. Rather than repeating myself, maybe jump on board that topic:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/joomla-gsoc-2013/SUeJWYhU84A

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[Chad Windnagle]

Actually, rereading my reply I just kind of point back to this mailing list. Whoops.

Anyway, I don't have a roadmap for this project (that's something you as the student should be providing to us - what are your plans for what you want to accomplish?). 

Joomla now has Bootstrap included in it's core, Joomla is very focused on providing a highly accessible user interface for users, though. Because Bootstrap is not very accessibility based, this project will involve things like making hathor look nice, while keeping it a highly semantic, accessible template. This could be done by making bootstrap more accessible it's self, and then incorporating bootstrap styling into hathor. Ideally changes we make to bootstrap could also be sent back to the Bootstrap project as well. 

Your focus should be to:

1) use bootstrap 

2) keep the template highly accessible / semantic

3) make hathor pretty

Hope that helps!

Regards,
Chad Windnagle
Fight SOPA

[hoochicken]

Hi,

I think, Hathor is to be kept as simple as possible with originary css, meaning no bootstrap (argumentation see below).

What I'd do is:

• Take a close look at the Hather backend. Choose different view, e. g.:
  

• com_content article list
• com_content Single article
• extensions > modules list
• extensions > modules single
  
• etc.
  

• Think about what can be changed just by altering the css, meaning:
• colours
• shapes (rectangular to rounded?)
• shadows (box-shadow)
• borders
• Create Webdesigns for the different views
  
• Bootstrap?: Me says: No.
  
• When I set up that "Hathor is beautiful" quest, the idea was to create an "everlasting", ever secure template, that works with basic css and html.
  
• Therefore I'd keep Hathor as simple as possible
  
• A standalone template. 
• Bootstrap is really nice. But in this very case I'd leave it out. Today it's bootstrap, tomorrow it will be "Himpfelbimpfel", who know's. I wouldn't create any dependencies wherenot neccessary.
  
• If you don't agree, feel free to comment:-)

Greetings
Mareike
PS: Nice mistyping, wrote "bootytrap" in the first place (German Quertz-keyboard)

[a.radtke]

Hi together,

I think everybody knows that I'm not the best friend of bootstrap, but

1.)  I  think the less-files of bootstrap can be a good basis for accessible CSS of hathor, if we adapt it in the correct way. The result is not the same like native bootstrap. But it should be build so, that all the basic class-names are still used. We should do that  because of all the components which  are built with bootstrap  already.

2,) We will have some probs  with  Bootstrap 3.0, because   class-names will changed ( example: span). These changes are good, because the wording "span" for the cols isn't speaking and and a span is an html-element. Now we have  a problem with all the used span-classes we have already.
If we will set on Bootstrap  the next years, we will have this kind of  problem again and again. We are not independent anymore. But this decision was made. When the discussions  about bootstrap starts 1,5 years ago, my idea was to customize bootstrap and build our own framework on that.
Maybe this is an option again. I think it can  work, if we are keep in contact with bootstrap guys.

3.) One question is how we should handle the HTML-Code. One option is to use the template overrides at the beginning. And if we can manage it that Hathor is nice looking and accessible we have the possibility to add that code to the core.

It doesn't matter what we will do exactly, I'm sure  it is lot of work, if we will do it quite good.

Angie

[Javier Gómez]

I guess that a must read for this project is:

- http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/aria

Another recomendation: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/Main_Page

^_^

[Angie Radtke]

Hi

Here 2 interesting books :


Pro HTML5 Accessibility

http://www.amazon.com/Pro-HTML5-Accessibility-Professional-Apress/dp/1430241942/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1363685451&sr=8-1&keywords=html5+accessibility



The Truth About HTML5

http://www.amazon.com/The-Truth-About-HTML5-Designers/dp/1479158569/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1363685548&sr=8-1&keywords=the+truth+about+html5





Angie

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[Seth Warburton]

Hi all, 

Some great input here! My preference would be to improve the semantics and accessibility with html5 elements in combination with WAI-ARIA Landmark Roles, and to simplify and refine the html and css. Beauty is, of course, in the eye of the beholder but a minimal design ethic can be incredibly effective, provide a clean and refreshing working environment that assists rather than detracts from the task at hand. 

Personally, I would avoid the use of Bootstrap in this case because, as others have already correctly pointed out, there are known accessibility issues with Bootstrap in it's current form, Bootstrap is rapidly evolving so there are upgrade issues as soon as it is incorporated, bringing a maintenance requirement that we don't currently have with Hathor as it 'Just works' and will continue to do so as long as it is built with W3C standard html and css.

I have to agree with Mareike on this, the accessible template should be as bullet-proof as it can possibly be. Independent, accessible and future-friendly. That is going to be *very* hard to do with Bootstrap. As Angie mentions, template overrides could be used to improve the accessibility and semantics of core outputs.

If this were my project I would be looking firstly at the accessibility and semantics of the underlying code, and then at things like typography (heirachy, intent, readability) and style (flat, high-contrast, well-spaced).

Best regards,

Seth

[hoochicken]

Hi,
"bullet-proof" is a good term to describe what Hathor should be.
I think there has got to be one fail-safe template that works whatever:-)
Greetings
Mareike

[Angie Radtke]

Hi Seth

where I want to go is: working on the bootstrap-less files, make them
accessible and rename it to jstrap .-)
Result: Components are working

bye Angie

[Michael Babker]

One thing folks will notice with Hathor as 3.1 is released is that elements of it have started to take a bit more of a 2.5-esque look.  Key changes are in the menu and the quick icons on the main page.  A couple of things to consider for development here (and just the interfaces in general going forward):

 

- We have a pretty great layout override system built into the templates, don't be afraid to use it (Hathor uses it quite liberally right now)

- We also have a pretty great Layout library that lets us recycle layout elements, and also is overridable if the default markup doesn't suit your needs (see the quickicons layout and override in Hathor)

 

All in all, Hathor really isn't as bad as it was six months ago, but that's not to say that it doesn't have its flaws in its current state, and that we don't have room to improve the template (and the core layouts themselves).  Maybe the proper endstate for this project would be a "Hathor 2.0" with improved accessibility fixes in the core layouts (which I'd vote we also contribute up to Bootstrap as well, it's a win-win scenario for everyone then).

www.der-auftritt.de  Büro für Kommunikation

Angie Radtke
Witterschlicker Allee 52
53125 Bonn

Fon: 0228 / 642 04 67

----------------------------------------------------

Joomla!-Templates entwickeln:
Barrierefreie & attraktive Designs von Konzept bis Umsetzung
Addison-Wesley,
ISBN-10: 3827328462
 

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