+1, I'd really suggest that the best thing it to be forward looking, learn to use the new MVC so we can build a totally amazing and ground breaking J4. Doing it piecemeal in the current CMS (except to the extent that things are backported from J4) to me just seems like an inefficient use of time.
I facilitated the UCM session at the road map meeting at JAB which really turned into more of a J4 vision meeting. We gave lightning talks before the meetings to more or less encourage people to come. I asked Mark and Andy if it was okay for me to be opinionated in my talk and they said go for it, it will probably get people interested in talking. So here are the slides I had, and if anyone is interested in participating in some collaborative experimentation with the newer classes and the current eBaySF repo for JContent (I know, I know updates coming but that's what we have right now) with an eye toward getting ready for J4 please contact me and once J3 hits beta I'll email about it.
On Tuesday, August 28, 2012 5:39:12 AM UTC-4, piotr_cz wrote:
> Others pointed out that it may take time until CMS will adopt new MVC. > Learning basing on existing code would be most convenient way, but I > can't see this happening soon. New MVC comes along with Unified > content model, new routers and other stuff. > We have to figure out ourselves: check existing examples (see first > elin's post), bits of documentation, pull the sleeves and experiment.
> New stuff is quite a change in thinking for me but I believe this is > needed for a switch from CMS centered platform to multi purpose. New > stuff not being implemented in CMS has one advantage: there are > possibilities for some adjustments and tuning without breaking current > CMS.
> On Aug 27, 4:01 pm, Donald Gilbert <dilbert4l...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Very good link and very helpful. I guess we'll see what the CMS plans to > do > > with these great changes and we'll go from there.
No one should feel like they should ask for permission to share their honest opinions on Joomla. Let's just be open and know that alternative ideas and opinions should not be taken personally, in fact, that's kind of the point of community driven approaches.
I watched the video and agree with many observations about weaknesses in the application. I don't agree with some of the thoughts about solving those problems, but it was good to finally see recognition of concerns many of us were expressing during 1.6.
The project needs an *architect* to draft the data model and application elements. Someone with real world training and experience in application development could make a big difference moving forward. Maybe that's Louis? I don't know, but the blueprint of how the CMS is rebuilt should be entrusted to someone with these skills.
On Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:49:54 PM UTC-5, elin wrote:
> +1, I'd really suggest that the best thing it to be forward looking, learn > to use the new MVC so we can build a totally amazing and ground breaking > J4. Doing it piecemeal in the current CMS (except to the extent that things > are backported from J4) to me just seems like an inefficient use of time.
> I facilitated the UCM session at the road map meeting at JAB which really > turned into more of a J4 vision meeting. We gave lightning talks before > the meetings to more or less encourage people to come. I asked Mark and > Andy if it was okay for me to be opinionated in my talk and they said go > for it, it will probably get people interested in talking. So here are the > slides I had, and if anyone is interested in participating in > some collaborative experimentation with the newer classes and the current > eBaySF repo for JContent (I know, I know updates coming but that's what we > have right now) with an eye toward getting ready for J4 please contact me > and once J3 hits beta I'll email about it.
> On Tuesday, August 28, 2012 5:39:12 AM UTC-4, piotr_cz wrote:
>> Others pointed out that it may take time until CMS will adopt new MVC. >> Learning basing on existing code would be most convenient way, but I >> can't see this happening soon. New MVC comes along with Unified >> content model, new routers and other stuff. >> We have to figure out ourselves: check existing examples (see first >> elin's post), bits of documentation, pull the sleeves and experiment.
>> New stuff is quite a change in thinking for me but I believe this is >> needed for a switch from CMS centered platform to multi purpose. New >> stuff not being implemented in CMS has one advantage: there are >> possibilities for some adjustments and tuning without breaking current >> CMS.
>> On Aug 27, 4:01 pm, Donald Gilbert <dilbert4l...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Very good link and very helpful. I guess we'll see what the CMS plans >> to do >> > with these great changes and we'll go from there.
I'm planning an component. Is it recommended to use the old MVC of J! 2.5? Or would you recommend using the new MVC for J! 3.0 (though the core not yet uses it)?
PS: I reread the whole thread that I find very interesting and tried to make a summary.
[Especially this last point I find very interesting. Content could be simply displayed e. g. in module positions via menu component(?). (Thus some modules (e. g. latest_articles) would become obsolete, as an article list could be displayed on a module position.) How ever the multi-content issue is handled, I like the idea of it. It would be a great step for J!.]
And by the way: Thank you all for your excellent work on J!
> I'm planning an component. Is it recommended to use the old MVC of J! 2.5? > Or would you recommend using the new MVC for J! 3.0 (though the core not > yet uses it)?
That depends on how much time you have to dedicate to refactoring your component, reacting to changes(possibly breaking changes) that will naturally happen when the new implementations are being created.
Personally i have been using legacy for now, just to finish up what i was working on, It will still look 3.0 taking advantage of bootstrap. This will buy some time while the community works on solidifying the new mvc (hopefully i can help).
Im all for being forward thinking and using the new MVC if it is a personal project, not a component for a paying client.
Does anyone know where the progress is with the new router? Thats the best place to start if your interested in the new mvc.
You can use the old MVC, in which case you get all the benefit of the
existing classes like JModelForm and things like that (on which all
the components are currently built), or you can use the new MVC, but
you need to roll your own implementation of all those standard
classes. If you are happy with the 2.x way of designing components,
stick with it. If you are building a component that heads off in a
different direction, or you want to spearhead how new components
should be design from the ground up, then maybe the new MVC will be
more suitable. Unfortunately the answer really is "it depends".
> I'm planning an component. Is it recommended to use the old MVC of J! 2.5?
> Or would you recommend using the new MVC for J! 3.0 (though the core not yet
> uses it)?
> PS: I reread the whole thread that I find very interesting and tried to make
> a summary.
> [Especially this last point I find very interesting. Content could be simply
> displayed e. g. in module positions via menu component(?). (Thus some
> modules (e. g. latest_articles) would become obsolete, as an article list
> could be displayed on a module position.) How ever the multi-content issue
> is handled, I like the idea of it. It would be a great step for J!.]
> And by the way: Thank you all for your excellent work on J!
> To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
Does anybody have ideas, how to make component for Joomla 3.0 with
backwards compatibility with 2.5?
Akeeba backup has had such stuff in past but I don't think if this is
really possible now, extending classes to JControllerLegacy for Joomla
3.0 and JController for J2.5. in once codebase.
On Aug 24, 1:17 am, RC3 Media <rcela...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Im working on updating a component to be compatible with joomla 3, I have
> been going through the depricated list and exploring the framework to
> become familiar with changes. Im not seeing any implementations that would
> replace JController(now an interface) besides using legacy classes.
> JControllerBase doesnt implement any controller functionality and its the
> only implementation that i can find of a controller in joomla 3 12.1
> framework.
> Where have the controllers gone???
> The new com_content is using the legacy controller so i may be jumping the
> gun on this one, if not can someone point me to where they are.
> Do I have to code my components base controller to extend JControllerBase
> and add default functionality (add,save,delete,publish....etc).
> I dont want to use any legacy classes in my upgraded component, and have no
> need for backwards compatibility(internal use only).
On 11 September 2012 18:13, piotr_cz <pkoniec...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Does anybody have ideas, how to make component for Joomla 3.0 with
> backwards compatibility with 2.5?
> Akeeba backup has had such stuff in past but I don't think if this is
> really possible now, extending classes to JControllerLegacy for Joomla
> 3.0 and JController for J2.5. in once codebase.
JControllerLegacy, JModelLegacy and JViewLegacy are in both 3.x and
2.5.x so that's your compatibility layer. It should be minimal
trouble to have a 2.5/3.0 compatible PHP codebase. The main problem
for 3.x extensions will be the different HTML markup.
1.5/2.5/3.x will be nigh on impossible without doing your own thing,
which some developers do (but then I argue why bother using Joomla at
all).
Thank you.
I overlooked that around version 2.5.6 new MVC with compatibility
classes was merged into trunk.
I'll try to prepare HTML markup compatible with both 2.5 and 3.0 admin
templates.
On Sep 12, 7:07 am, Andrew Eddie <mambob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11 September 2012 18:13, piotr_cz <pkoniec...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Does anybody have ideas, how to make component for Joomla 3.0 with
> > backwards compatibility with 2.5?
> > Akeeba backup has had such stuff in past but I don't think if this is
> > really possible now, extending classes to JControllerLegacy for Joomla
> > 3.0 and JController for J2.5. in once codebase.
> JControllerLegacy, JModelLegacy and JViewLegacy are in both 3.x and
> 2.5.x so that's your compatibility layer. It should be minimal
> trouble to have a 2.5/3.0 compatible PHP codebase. The main problem
> for 3.x extensions will be the different HTML markup.
> 1.5/2.5/3.x will be nigh on impossible without doing your own thing,
> which some developers do (but then I argue why bother using Joomla at
> all).
On 12 September 2012 19:34, piotr_cz <pkoniec...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you.
> I overlooked that around version 2.5.6 new MVC with compatibility
> classes was merged into trunk.
> I'll try to prepare HTML markup compatible with both 2.5 and 3.0 admin
> templates.
On that, I believe Michael has suggested that you prepare two sets of
layouts; one for 2.x and one for 3.x. Thinking out loud I guess you'd
probably design for 2.x and then use the postFlight trigger to
overwrite the layouts with 3.x versions; or possibly experiment with
_addPath. I don't think it will be a good idea to try and have one
set of HTML that works on both versions (you'll be on your own trying
to work that out).
A good example of new MVC usage might be recent Joomla 3.0 Upgrade
Check Application https://github.com/mbabker/J30UpgradeCheck.
I just went briefly trough the code, and although this is a stand-
alone application, probably same pattern could be used in CMS.
On Aug 24, 1:17 am, RC3 Media <rcela...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Im working on updating a component to be compatible with joomla 3, I have
> been going through the depricated list and exploring the framework to
> become familiar with changes. Im not seeing any implementations that would
> replace JController(now an interface) besides using legacy classes.
> JControllerBase doesnt implement any controller functionality and its the
> only implementation that i can find of a controller in joomla 3 12.1
> framework.
> Where have the controllers gone???
> The new com_content is using the legacy controller so i may be jumping the
> gun on this one, if not can someone point me to where they are.
> Do I have to code my components base controller to extend JControllerBase
> and add default functionality (add,save,delete,publish....etc).
> I dont want to use any legacy classes in my upgraded component, and have no
> need for backwards compatibility(internal use only).
One of the interesting little twists of the new mvc+autoloader that might be useful to consider is that you also have the take the s off of a lot of your folder names so view instead of views and model instead of models. Meaning that you could possibly have same named things in a folder called views and another called view.
On Thursday, September 13, 2012 5:41:22 AM UTC-4, piotr_cz wrote:
> A good example of new MVC usage might be recent Joomla 3.0 Upgrade > Check Application https://github.com/mbabker/J30UpgradeCheck. > I just went briefly trough the code, and although this is a stand- > alone application, probably same pattern could be used in CMS.
> On Aug 24, 1:17 am, RC3 Media <rcela...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Im working on updating a component to be compatible with joomla 3, I > have > > been going through the depricated list and exploring the framework to > > become familiar with changes. Im not seeing any implementations that > would > > replace JController(now an interface) besides using legacy classes. > > JControllerBase doesnt implement any controller functionality and its > the > > only implementation that i can find of a controller in joomla 3 12.1 > > framework.
> > Where have the controllers gone???
> > The new com_content is using the legacy controller so i may be jumping > the > > gun on this one, if not can someone point me to where they are.
> > Do I have to code my components base controller to extend > JControllerBase > > and add default functionality (add,save,delete,publish....etc).
> > I dont want to use any legacy classes in my upgraded component, and have > no > > need for backwards compatibility(internal use only).
