Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major tasks and their status:
Thanks for sharing that - With reference to "priority 2 #6 - Weblinks able to display in raw form (no click tracking)" I did some work on the weblinks component and I believe that there is the option to link directly to the URL rather than click tracking already exists. Not sure if the patch I submitted made it into the SVN - but there should be a parameter 'count_clicks' which defines this option
Cheers Rob
On Apr 7, 2:22 am, Mark Dexter <dextercow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 > beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major > tasks and their status:
There is one task missing from this list - cache that is not working in 1.6. at all. Includes framework bugs and not-implemeted on CMS level (not implemented in any component, also missing from some modules).
Solvable by incorporation of my branch, but still somehning that needs to be done before beta.
> Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 > beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major > tasks and their status:
> As you can see, we've made a lot of progress but still have more work > to do. Thanks. Mark
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Joomla! CMS Development" group. > To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@go oglegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
Hi Mark, I'm very happy, that this list has finally been made public, however I'm wondering why the point "Frontend language switcher/filter" is still on that list as just "10%" done. We had looong talks about this, where we agreed upon adding language fields to the database tables so that a third party extension could more easily implement multi-linguality into the Joomla core components. We specifically said that we didn't want to implement multi-lingual content in 1.6. This has been the general consensus after the release of 1.5 2 years ago, it was the general consensus 1 year ago when I was asked to do the release management of 1.6 and it was the general consensus half a year ago, when we last talked about the feature list of 1.6.
We agreed upon this, because we all thought it would need more thought and basically a complete rewrite of com_content to implement multi-lingual content here and that we didn't want to delay 1.6 for yet another year because of this.
I REALLY want to get 1.6 out of the door and would ask you to postpone this task till 1.7.
> Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 > beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major > tasks and their status:
Had you listened more carefully to those loong talks, then you would be clear that the language switch is not near any multilingual content solution or to be a full blown content translation tool. ;)
Simply a switch to provide end-users and webmasters with option to show content/menus/mods only with the language tagged for each of these. So its a language switch basically, not multilingual just one language at a time and whatever would match that language.
It was agreed to before alpha2 released, and international community was clear it would first be added before beta. Nothing new really.
PLT obviously could have decided otherwise on this recently, but I dont think intention is to go further than described.
Cheers,
Ole
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com>wrote:
> Hi Mark, > I'm very happy, that this list has finally been made public, however I'm > wondering why the point "Frontend language switcher/filter" is still on > that list as just "10%" done. We had looong talks about this, where we > agreed upon adding language fields to the database tables so that a > third party extension could more easily implement multi-linguality into > the Joomla core components. We specifically said that we didn't want to > implement multi-lingual content in 1.6. This has been the general > consensus after the release of 1.5 2 years ago, it was the general > consensus 1 year ago when I was asked to do the release management of > 1.6 and it was the general consensus half a year ago, when we last > talked about the feature list of 1.6.
> We agreed upon this, because we all thought it would need more thought > and basically a complete rewrite of com_content to implement > multi-lingual content here and that we didn't want to delay 1.6 for yet > another year because of this.
> I REALLY want to get 1.6 out of the door and would ask you to postpone > this task till 1.7.
> Hannes
> Am 07.04.2010 02:22, schrieb Mark Dexter: > > Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 > > beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major > > tasks and their status:
> > As you can see, we've made a lot of progress but still have more work > > to do. Thanks. Mark
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Joomla! CMS Development" group. > To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@go oglegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> Had you listened more carefully to those loong talks, then you would > be clear that the language switch is not near any multilingual content > solution or to be a full blown content translation tool. ;)
> Simply a switch to provide end-users and webmasters with option to > show content/menus/mods only with the language tagged for each of > these. So its a language switch basically, not multilingual just one > language at a time and whatever would match that language.
> It was agreed to before alpha2 released, and international community > was clear it would first be added before beta. Nothing new really.
> PLT obviously could have decided otherwise on this recently, but I > dont think intention is to go further than described.
> Cheers,
> Ole
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Hannes Papenberg > <hackwa...@googlemail.com <mailto:hackwa...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
> Hi Mark, > I'm very happy, that this list has finally been made public, > however I'm > wondering why the point "Frontend language switcher/filter" is > still on > that list as just "10%" done. We had looong talks about this, where we > agreed upon adding language fields to the database tables so that a > third party extension could more easily implement multi-linguality > into > the Joomla core components. We specifically said that we didn't > want to > implement multi-lingual content in 1.6. This has been the general > consensus after the release of 1.5 2 years ago, it was the general > consensus 1 year ago when I was asked to do the release management of > 1.6 and it was the general consensus half a year ago, when we last > talked about the feature list of 1.6.
> We agreed upon this, because we all thought it would need more thought > and basically a complete rewrite of com_content to implement > multi-lingual content here and that we didn't want to delay 1.6 > for yet > another year because of this.
> I REALLY want to get 1.6 out of the door and would ask you to postpone > this task till 1.7.
> Hannes
> Am 07.04.2010 02:22, schrieb Mark Dexter: > > Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 > > beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major > > tasks and their status:
> > As you can see, we've made a lot of progress but still have more > work > > to do. Thanks. Mark
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group. > To post to this group, send an email to > joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com > <mailto:joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com>. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > <mailto:joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group. > To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> Ok, so then what is the difference between a multi-lingual site and > switching the language of content, modules and menus?
> Hannes
> Am 07.04.2010 12:27, schrieb Ole Ottosen (ot2sen):
> > Hannes,
> > Had you listened more carefully to those loong talks, then you would > > be clear that the language switch is not near any multilingual content > > solution or to be a full blown content translation tool. ;)
> > Simply a switch to provide end-users and webmasters with option to > > show content/menus/mods only with the language tagged for each of > > these. So its a language switch basically, not multilingual just one > > language at a time and whatever would match that language.
> > It was agreed to before alpha2 released, and international community > > was clear it would first be added before beta. Nothing new really.
> > PLT obviously could have decided otherwise on this recently, but I > > dont think intention is to go further than described.
> > Cheers,
> > Ole
> > On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Hannes Papenberg > > <hackwa...@googlemail.com <mailto:hackwa...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
> > Hi Mark, > > I'm very happy, that this list has finally been made public, > > however I'm > > wondering why the point "Frontend language switcher/filter" is > > still on > > that list as just "10%" done. We had looong talks about this, where we > > agreed upon adding language fields to the database tables so that a > > third party extension could more easily implement multi-linguality > > into > > the Joomla core components. We specifically said that we didn't > > want to > > implement multi-lingual content in 1.6. This has been the general > > consensus after the release of 1.5 2 years ago, it was the general > > consensus 1 year ago when I was asked to do the release management of > > 1.6 and it was the general consensus half a year ago, when we last > > talked about the feature list of 1.6.
> > We agreed upon this, because we all thought it would need more thought > > and basically a complete rewrite of com_content to implement > > multi-lingual content here and that we didn't want to delay 1.6 > > for yet > > another year because of this.
> > I REALLY want to get 1.6 out of the door and would ask you to postpone > > this task till 1.7.
> > Hannes
> > Am 07.04.2010 02:22, schrieb Mark Dexter: > > > Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 > > > beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major > > > tasks and their status:
> > > As you can see, we've made a lot of progress but still have more > > work > > > to do. Thanks. Mark
> > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group. > > To post to this group, send an email to > > joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com > > <mailto:joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com>. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > > <mailto:joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group. > > To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
I have three requirements for Joomla at this moment: 1. Working with Joomla has to be intuitive, both as an administrator and as a website-visitor 2. Features in Joomla, especially those touching core functionality, should be complete implementations and not stop half-way. 3. Joomla 1.6 Beta has to be released ASAP.
In the thread that you have mentioned, you are describing a behaviour that is not intuitive, at least not to me. Why should the filter redirect you to the homepage - each time? What do you do if the homepage isn't the featured view of com_content? What if it is a component that does not support multi-lingual content? Is the language switch represented in the URL and if so, how is it done? How is the switcher realised? With a module? How do you decide if that module is supposed to show up when you are on a subpage where you either can't select a different language, because you are in an article or where you don't know if there are content items in this category or in its children with mixed language? How do you get back to the "original" language? If you are switching both content and modules, how should Joomla work if you didn't select a language? Should it show all 10 modules that I have on the page, times the number of languages that I have installed? If you are only showing the modules of one type of language, why do you show all articles regardless of the language? From the perspective of a new users of Joomla: I want to create a multi-lingual site and I'm selecting the article to be slovenien and I'm creating the same article just in russian instead. I see that Joomla has a language switcher. I publish that one on all my pages. I click on the russian language (BTW: Is it the word russian or a flag? How is that flag styled?) and instead of seeing my article in russian, I'm redirected to the home menu item or the category of the current article, but I see no russian articles. I've said it before and I'm saying this again: This is not intuitive and it is not what users will expect from this feature. I hated having to tell every second user how to switch off the "Welcome to the Frontpage" and I honestly don't want to have to tell every user why the language switcher does not behave like he or she expected it to, like it does on every other website out there.
I'm also wondering who from the PLT approved of this feature. Its not like this is the first time that we've been talking about this and besides Jean-Marie, Ole and Christophe, who are in the PLT to coordinate language changes, all other members either had no opinion on this or didn't really want to add it to 1.6 since it has several side-effects and is to huge to implement just now. I'm happy to say this again, but if you insist on implementing this feature, it will delay the release of Joomla 1.6 Beta for at least another 6 months, more likely a full year.
> On 7 Apr, 13:30, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Ok, so then what is the difference between a multi-lingual site and >> switching the language of content, modules and menus?
>> Hannes
>> Am 07.04.2010 12:27, schrieb Ole Ottosen (ot2sen):
>>> Hannes,
>>> Had you listened more carefully to those loong talks, then you would >>> be clear that the language switch is not near any multilingual content >>> solution or to be a full blown content translation tool. ;)
>>> Simply a switch to provide end-users and webmasters with option to >>> show content/menus/mods only with the language tagged for each of >>> these. So its a language switch basically, not multilingual just one >>> language at a time and whatever would match that language.
>>> It was agreed to before alpha2 released, and international community >>> was clear it would first be added before beta. Nothing new really.
>>> PLT obviously could have decided otherwise on this recently, but I >>> dont think intention is to go further than described.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ole
>>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Hannes Papenberg >>> <hackwa...@googlemail.com <mailto:hackwa...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>>> Hi Mark, >>> I'm very happy, that this list has finally been made public, >>> however I'm >>> wondering why the point "Frontend language switcher/filter" is >>> still on >>> that list as just "10%" done. We had looong talks about this, where we >>> agreed upon adding language fields to the database tables so that a >>> third party extension could more easily implement multi-linguality >>> into >>> the Joomla core components. We specifically said that we didn't >>> want to >>> implement multi-lingual content in 1.6. This has been the general >>> consensus after the release of 1.5 2 years ago, it was the general >>> consensus 1 year ago when I was asked to do the release management of >>> 1.6 and it was the general consensus half a year ago, when we last >>> talked about the feature list of 1.6.
>>> We agreed upon this, because we all thought it would need more thought >>> and basically a complete rewrite of com_content to implement >>> multi-lingual content here and that we didn't want to delay 1.6 >>> for yet >>> another year because of this.
>>> I REALLY want to get 1.6 out of the door and would ask you to postpone >>> this task till 1.7.
>>> Hannes
>>> Am 07.04.2010 02:22, schrieb Mark Dexter: >>> > Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 >>> > beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major >>> > tasks and their status:
>>> > As you can see, we've made a lot of progress but still have more >>> work >>> > to do. Thanks. Mark
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group. >>> To post to this group, send an email to >>> joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com>. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group. >>> To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 > beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major > tasks and their status:
What about the vcard issue that was a beta blocker earlier? Do you have a decision on that?
Also, Mark, I don't know where you put this, but an upgrade path for templates is essential and that's a little bit of a different issue than other upgrades I think. Someone needs to start docs for that ASAP.
Elin
On 7 Apr, 12:26, Matias Aguirre <fastsl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What is the idea for 1.5 to 1.6 upgrade? im working on jUpgrade so i > like to know if i can help with something.
> Take care
> On Apr 6, 9:22 pm, Mark Dexter <dextercow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 > > beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major > > tasks and their status:
The vcard issue is a none-issue and should be working atm. There also is no real upgrade for templates. They have to either adapt to the new CSS or use the overrides, which we are going to provide as soon as the normal core layouts are stable. If they are using custom overrides, they have to adapt to the new layouts by themselfs.
> What about the vcard issue that was a beta blocker earlier? Do you > have a decision on that?
> Also, Mark, I don't know where you put this, but an upgrade path for > templates is essential and that's a little bit of a different issue > than other upgrades I think. Someone needs to start docs for that > ASAP.
> Elin
> On 7 Apr, 12:26, Matias Aguirre <fastsl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Mark,
>> What is the idea for 1.5 to 1.6 upgrade? im working on jUpgrade so i >> like to know if i can help with something.
>> Take care
>> On Apr 6, 9:22 pm, Mark Dexter <dextercow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 >>> beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major >>> tasks and their status:
Although not a beta blocker, there needs to be very very clear step by step guidance on how to adapt a 1.5 template to 1.6. However, doing a diff of Milky Way as it is in 1.6 and Milky Way as it is in 1.5 I guess I'm not seeing the impossibility issue in the same way you are. The biggest change is the countModules one I mentioned earlier today, $list[prefix] : string in pagination, and some shifts in the xml to use jform. Almost all the other changes changes are coding style and accessibility.
Elin
On Apr 7, 1:08 pm, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> The vcard issue is a none-issue and should be working atm. There also is > no real upgrade for templates. They have to either adapt to the new CSS > or use the overrides, which we are going to provide as soon as the > normal core layouts are stable. If they are using custom overrides, they > have to adapt to the new layouts by themselfs.
> Hannes
> Am 07.04.2010 18:59, schrieb elin:
> > What about the vcard issue that was a beta blocker earlier? Do you > > have a decision on that?
> > Also, Mark, I don't know where you put this, but an upgrade path for > > templates is essential and that's a little bit of a different issue > > than other upgrades I think. Someone needs to start docs for that > > ASAP.
> > Elin
> > On 7 Apr, 12:26, Matias Aguirre <fastsl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi Mark,
> >> What is the idea for 1.5 to 1.6 upgrade? im working on jUpgrade so i > >> like to know if i can help with something.
> >> Take care
> >> On Apr 6, 9:22 pm, Mark Dexter <dextercow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 > >>> beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major > >>> tasks and their status:
Hannes, I am only going to say this once. If you want to be this critical about something someone else is working on, then expect the *same* critical treatment with your categories branch. You don't have to agree with it but if you want to make a fuss then don't complain if people object to your pet features you are working on. JM and Christophe are working on it, it's not bothering you. If they fail to make it work, it won't get into the trunk. Likewise, if anything you (or I) do doesn't work, it won't go into trunk. Fair?
> And the questions posted there were not answered.
> I have three requirements for Joomla at this moment: > 1. Working with Joomla has to be intuitive, both as an administrator and > as a website-visitor > 2. Features in Joomla, especially those touching core functionality, > should be complete implementations and not stop half-way. > 3. Joomla 1.6 Beta has to be released ASAP.
> In the thread that you have mentioned, you are describing a behaviour > that is not intuitive, at least not to me. Why should the filter > redirect you to the homepage - each time? What do you do if the homepage > isn't the featured view of com_content? What if it is a component that > does not support multi-lingual content? Is the language switch > represented in the URL and if so, how is it done? How is the switcher > realised? With a module? How do you decide if that module is supposed to > show up when you are on a subpage where you either can't select a > different language, because you are in an article or where you don't > know if there are content items in this category or in its children with > mixed language? How do you get back to the "original" language? If you > are switching both content and modules, how should Joomla work if you > didn't select a language? Should it show all 10 modules that I have on > the page, times the number of languages that I have installed? If you > are only showing the modules of one type of language, why do you show > all articles regardless of the language? From the perspective of a new > users of Joomla: I want to create a multi-lingual site and I'm selecting > the article to be slovenien and I'm creating the same article just in > russian instead. I see that Joomla has a language switcher. I publish > that one on all my pages. I click on the russian language (BTW: Is it > the word russian or a flag? How is that flag styled?) and instead of > seeing my article in russian, I'm redirected to the home menu item or > the category of the current article, but I see no russian articles. I've > said it before and I'm saying this again: This is not intuitive and it > is not what users will expect from this feature. I hated having to tell > every second user how to switch off the "Welcome to the Frontpage" and I > honestly don't want to have to tell every user why the language switcher > does not behave like he or she expected it to, like it does on every > other website out there.
> I'm also wondering who from the PLT approved of this feature. Its not > like this is the first time that we've been talking about this and > besides Jean-Marie, Ole and Christophe, who are in the PLT to coordinate > language changes, all other members either had no opinion on this or > didn't really want to add it to 1.6 since it has several side-effects > and is to huge to implement just now. I'm happy to say this again, but > if you insist on implementing this feature, it will delay the release of > Joomla 1.6 Beta for at least another 6 months, more likely a full year.
>> On 7 Apr, 13:30, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> Ok, so then what is the difference between a multi-lingual site and >>> switching the language of content, modules and menus?
>>> Hannes
>>> Am 07.04.2010 12:27, schrieb Ole Ottosen (ot2sen):
>>>> Hannes,
>>>> Had you listened more carefully to those loong talks, then you would >>>> be clear that the language switch is not near any multilingual content >>>> solution or to be a full blown content translation tool. ;)
>>>> Simply a switch to provide end-users and webmasters with option to >>>> show content/menus/mods only with the language tagged for each of >>>> these. So its a language switch basically, not multilingual just one >>>> language at a time and whatever would match that language.
>>>> It was agreed to before alpha2 released, and international community >>>> was clear it would first be added before beta. Nothing new really.
>>>> PLT obviously could have decided otherwise on this recently, but I >>>> dont think intention is to go further than described.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Ole
>>>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Hannes Papenberg >>>> <hackwa...@googlemail.com <mailto:hackwa...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>>>> Hi Mark, >>>> I'm very happy, that this list has finally been made public, >>>> however I'm >>>> wondering why the point "Frontend language switcher/filter" is >>>> still on >>>> that list as just "10%" done. We had looong talks about this, where we >>>> agreed upon adding language fields to the database tables so that a >>>> third party extension could more easily implement multi-linguality >>>> into >>>> the Joomla core components. We specifically said that we didn't >>>> want to >>>> implement multi-lingual content in 1.6. This has been the general >>>> consensus after the release of 1.5 2 years ago, it was the general >>>> consensus 1 year ago when I was asked to do the release management of >>>> 1.6 and it was the general consensus half a year ago, when we last >>>> talked about the feature list of 1.6.
>>>> We agreed upon this, because we all thought it would need more thought >>>> and basically a complete rewrite of com_content to implement >>>> multi-lingual content here and that we didn't want to delay 1.6 >>>> for yet >>>> another year because of this.
>>>> I REALLY want to get 1.6 out of the door and would ask you to postpone >>>> this task till 1.7.
>>>> Hannes
>>>> Am 07.04.2010 02:22, schrieb Mark Dexter: >>>> > Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 >>>> > beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major >>>> > tasks and their status:
>>>> > As you can see, we've made a lot of progress but still have more >>>> work >>>> > to do. Thanks. Mark
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group. >>>> To post to this group, send an email to >>>> joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com>. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group. >>>> To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group. > To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
The upgrader will need to be done by the time we end the beta cycle. It would have been nice to have it for beta but it just wasn't to be. Any assistance you can give will be greatly appreciated.
> What is the idea for 1.5 to 1.6 upgrade? im working on jUpgrade so i > like to know if i can help with something.
> Take care
> On Apr 6, 9:22 pm, Mark Dexter <dextercow...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 >> beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major >> tasks and their status:
>> As you can see, we've made a lot of progress but still have more work >> to do. Thanks. Mark
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group. > To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
Please think twice and test for performance degradation before adding this - such switch could add much to complexity with a large number of checks and additional queries everywhere and subsequently with potentially large negative impact on performance.
2010/4/7 Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com>
> And the questions posted there were not answered.
> I have three requirements for Joomla at this moment: > 1. Working with Joomla has to be intuitive, both as an administrator and > as a website-visitor > 2. Features in Joomla, especially those touching core functionality, > should be complete implementations and not stop half-way. > 3. Joomla 1.6 Beta has to be released ASAP.
> In the thread that you have mentioned, you are describing a behaviour > that is not intuitive, at least not to me. Why should the filter > redirect you to the homepage - each time? What do you do if the homepage > isn't the featured view of com_content? What if it is a component that > does not support multi-lingual content? Is the language switch > represented in the URL and if so, how is it done? How is the switcher > realised? With a module? How do you decide if that module is supposed to > show up when you are on a subpage where you either can't select a > different language, because you are in an article or where you don't > know if there are content items in this category or in its children with > mixed language? How do you get back to the "original" language? If you > are switching both content and modules, how should Joomla work if you > didn't select a language? Should it show all 10 modules that I have on > the page, times the number of languages that I have installed? If you > are only showing the modules of one type of language, why do you show > all articles regardless of the language? From the perspective of a new > users of Joomla: I want to create a multi-lingual site and I'm selecting > the article to be slovenien and I'm creating the same article just in > russian instead. I see that Joomla has a language switcher. I publish > that one on all my pages. I click on the russian language (BTW: Is it > the word russian or a flag? How is that flag styled?) and instead of > seeing my article in russian, I'm redirected to the home menu item or > the category of the current article, but I see no russian articles. I've > said it before and I'm saying this again: This is not intuitive and it > is not what users will expect from this feature. I hated having to tell > every second user how to switch off the "Welcome to the Frontpage" and I > honestly don't want to have to tell every user why the language switcher > does not behave like he or she expected it to, like it does on every > other website out there.
> I'm also wondering who from the PLT approved of this feature. Its not > like this is the first time that we've been talking about this and > besides Jean-Marie, Ole and Christophe, who are in the PLT to coordinate > language changes, all other members either had no opinion on this or > didn't really want to add it to 1.6 since it has several side-effects > and is to huge to implement just now. I'm happy to say this again, but > if you insist on implementing this feature, it will delay the release of > Joomla 1.6 Beta for at least another 6 months, more likely a full year.
> > On 7 Apr, 13:30, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> Ok, so then what is the difference between a multi-lingual site and > >> switching the language of content, modules and menus?
> >> Hannes
> >> Am 07.04.2010 12:27, schrieb Ole Ottosen (ot2sen):
> >>> Hannes,
> >>> Had you listened more carefully to those loong talks, then you would > >>> be clear that the language switch is not near any multilingual content > >>> solution or to be a full blown content translation tool. ;)
> >>> Simply a switch to provide end-users and webmasters with option to > >>> show content/menus/mods only with the language tagged for each of > >>> these. So its a language switch basically, not multilingual just one > >>> language at a time and whatever would match that language.
> >>> It was agreed to before alpha2 released, and international community > >>> was clear it would first be added before beta. Nothing new really.
> >>> PLT obviously could have decided otherwise on this recently, but I > >>> dont think intention is to go further than described.
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Ole
> >>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Hannes Papenberg > >>> <hackwa...@googlemail.com <mailto:hackwa...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
> >>> Hi Mark, > >>> I'm very happy, that this list has finally been made public, > >>> however I'm > >>> wondering why the point "Frontend language switcher/filter" is > >>> still on > >>> that list as just "10%" done. We had looong talks about this, where > we > >>> agreed upon adding language fields to the database tables so that a > >>> third party extension could more easily implement multi-linguality > >>> into > >>> the Joomla core components. We specifically said that we didn't > >>> want to > >>> implement multi-lingual content in 1.6. This has been the general > >>> consensus after the release of 1.5 2 years ago, it was the general > >>> consensus 1 year ago when I was asked to do the release management > of > >>> 1.6 and it was the general consensus half a year ago, when we last > >>> talked about the feature list of 1.6.
> >>> We agreed upon this, because we all thought it would need more > thought > >>> and basically a complete rewrite of com_content to implement > >>> multi-lingual content here and that we didn't want to delay 1.6 > >>> for yet > >>> another year because of this.
> >>> I REALLY want to get 1.6 out of the door and would ask you to > postpone > >>> this task till 1.7.
> >>> Hannes
> >>> Am 07.04.2010 02:22, schrieb Mark Dexter: > >>> > Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the > 1.6 > >>> > beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the > major > >>> > tasks and their status:
> >>> > As you can see, we've made a lot of progress but still have more > >>> work > >>> > to do. Thanks. Mark
> >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>> Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group. > >>> To post to this group, send an email to > >>> joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com > >>> <mailto:joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com>. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >>> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@go oglegroups.com> > >>> <mailto:joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com<joomla-dev-cms%252Bun subscribe@googlegroups.com> > >. > >>> For more options, visit this group at > >>> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>> Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group. > >>> To post to this group, send an email to > joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >>> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@go oglegroups.com> > . > >>> For more options, visit this group at > >>> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Joomla! CMS Development" group. > To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@go oglegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
Which is why its being done in a branch and can be reviewed before being added to the trunk. The implications of what it does for performance... or even usefulness will depend entirely upon how it is implemented. This is something that the translation teams has asked for and we are going to give it every opportunity to be successful. If it works out that the way its implemented isn't performant enough or is too confusing or just generally doesn't work out, then we can certainly decide not to include it.
Let's not get worked up over what something *could* be and give those working on it the same benefit of the doubt that we would give anyone else.
> Please think twice and test for performance degradation before adding this > - such switch could add much to complexity with a large number of checks and > additional queries everywhere and subsequently with potentially large > negative impact on performance.
> 2010/4/7 Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com>
> And the questions posted there were not answered.
>> I have three requirements for Joomla at this moment: >> 1. Working with Joomla has to be intuitive, both as an administrator and >> as a website-visitor >> 2. Features in Joomla, especially those touching core functionality, >> should be complete implementations and not stop half-way. >> 3. Joomla 1.6 Beta has to be released ASAP.
>> In the thread that you have mentioned, you are describing a behaviour >> that is not intuitive, at least not to me. Why should the filter >> redirect you to the homepage - each time? What do you do if the homepage >> isn't the featured view of com_content? What if it is a component that >> does not support multi-lingual content? Is the language switch >> represented in the URL and if so, how is it done? How is the switcher >> realised? With a module? How do you decide if that module is supposed to >> show up when you are on a subpage where you either can't select a >> different language, because you are in an article or where you don't >> know if there are content items in this category or in its children with >> mixed language? How do you get back to the "original" language? If you >> are switching both content and modules, how should Joomla work if you >> didn't select a language? Should it show all 10 modules that I have on >> the page, times the number of languages that I have installed? If you >> are only showing the modules of one type of language, why do you show >> all articles regardless of the language? From the perspective of a new >> users of Joomla: I want to create a multi-lingual site and I'm selecting >> the article to be slovenien and I'm creating the same article just in >> russian instead. I see that Joomla has a language switcher. I publish >> that one on all my pages. I click on the russian language (BTW: Is it >> the word russian or a flag? How is that flag styled?) and instead of >> seeing my article in russian, I'm redirected to the home menu item or >> the category of the current article, but I see no russian articles. I've >> said it before and I'm saying this again: This is not intuitive and it >> is not what users will expect from this feature. I hated having to tell >> every second user how to switch off the "Welcome to the Frontpage" and I >> honestly don't want to have to tell every user why the language switcher >> does not behave like he or she expected it to, like it does on every >> other website out there.
>> I'm also wondering who from the PLT approved of this feature. Its not >> like this is the first time that we've been talking about this and >> besides Jean-Marie, Ole and Christophe, who are in the PLT to coordinate >> language changes, all other members either had no opinion on this or >> didn't really want to add it to 1.6 since it has several side-effects >> and is to huge to implement just now. I'm happy to say this again, but >> if you insist on implementing this feature, it will delay the release of >> Joomla 1.6 Beta for at least another 6 months, more likely a full year.
>> > On 7 Apr, 13:30, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >> Ok, so then what is the difference between a multi-lingual site and >> >> switching the language of content, modules and menus?
>> >> Hannes
>> >> Am 07.04.2010 12:27, schrieb Ole Ottosen (ot2sen):
>> >>> Hannes,
>> >>> Had you listened more carefully to those loong talks, then you would >> >>> be clear that the language switch is not near any multilingual content >> >>> solution or to be a full blown content translation tool. ;)
>> >>> Simply a switch to provide end-users and webmasters with option to >> >>> show content/menus/mods only with the language tagged for each of >> >>> these. So its a language switch basically, not multilingual just one >> >>> language at a time and whatever would match that language.
>> >>> It was agreed to before alpha2 released, and international community >> >>> was clear it would first be added before beta. Nothing new really.
>> >>> PLT obviously could have decided otherwise on this recently, but I >> >>> dont think intention is to go further than described.
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>> Ole
>> >>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Hannes Papenberg >> >>> <hackwa...@googlemail.com <mailto:hackwa...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>> >>> Hi Mark, >> >>> I'm very happy, that this list has finally been made public, >> >>> however I'm >> >>> wondering why the point "Frontend language switcher/filter" is >> >>> still on >> >>> that list as just "10%" done. We had looong talks about this, >> where we >> >>> agreed upon adding language fields to the database tables so that >> a >> >>> third party extension could more easily implement multi-linguality >> >>> into >> >>> the Joomla core components. We specifically said that we didn't >> >>> want to >> >>> implement multi-lingual content in 1.6. This has been the general >> >>> consensus after the release of 1.5 2 years ago, it was the general >> >>> consensus 1 year ago when I was asked to do the release management >> of >> >>> 1.6 and it was the general consensus half a year ago, when we last >> >>> talked about the feature list of 1.6.
>> >>> We agreed upon this, because we all thought it would need more >> thought >> >>> and basically a complete rewrite of com_content to implement >> >>> multi-lingual content here and that we didn't want to delay 1.6 >> >>> for yet >> >>> another year because of this.
>> >>> I REALLY want to get 1.6 out of the door and would ask you to >> postpone >> >>> this task till 1.7.
>> >>> Hannes
>> >>> Am 07.04.2010 02:22, schrieb Mark Dexter: >> >>> > Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the >> 1.6 >> >>> > beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the >> major >> >>> > tasks and their status:
>> >>> > As you can see, we've made a lot of progress but still have more >> >>> work >> >>> > to do. Thanks. Mark
>> >>> -- >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>> Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group. >> >>> To post to this group, send an email to >> >>> joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com >> >>> <mailto:joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com>. >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >>> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@go oglegroups.com> >> >>> <mailto:joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com<joomla-dev-cms%252Bun subscribe@googlegroups.com> >> >. >> >>> For more options, visit this group at >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
>> >>> -- >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>> Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group. >> >>> To post to this group, send an email to >> joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >>> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@go oglegroups.com> >> . >> >>> For more options, visit this group at >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Joomla! CMS Development" group. >> To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@go oglegroups.com> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Joomla! CMS Development" group. > To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@go oglegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
-- Development Coordinator Joomla! ... because open source matters. http://www.joomla.org
Sure, I will try to get a stable release of jUpgrade when beta is released but I need some guide on how to act because I do not know how you plan to deploy the updater. If you want an external component or something included in Joomla 1.6.
I also know that there are some doubts because I am using jQuery instead of Mootools but the latter gave me bad results.
Regards
On Apr 7, 6:20 pm, Andrew Eddie <mambob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The upgrader will need to be done by the time we end the beta cycle. > It would have been nice to have it for beta but it just wasn't to be. > Any assistance you can give will be greatly appreciated.
> On 8 April 2010 02:26, Matias Aguirre <fastsl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Mark,
> > What is the idea for 1.5 to 1.6 upgrade? im working on jUpgrade so i > > like to know if i can help with something.
> > Take care
> > On Apr 6, 9:22 pm, Mark Dexter <dextercow...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 > >> beta release, here is a link to a spreadsheet that shows the major > >> tasks and their status:
> >> As you can see, we've made a lot of progress but still have more work > >> to do. Thanks. Mark
> > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group. > > To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
Hello Andrew, I expect nothing less than that you are critical with my work and that you look critically at the categories2 branch. However, I think the "pet" feature that you are talking about is the nested category system in 1.6. I dare everyone to go into a subcategory and look at the pathway or link to a category somewhere in the tree and then go into a subcategory of that category and take a look at the URL. I honestly believe, that people will rather want to have the features that were promised to them for the last two years to be working like they expect them to work, then having another new feature added.
But now back to the issue at hand: The logic that you are presenting here unfortunately is flawed. You are saying that JM and Christophe are working on it and if they fail to make it work, it wont go in. This approach certainly works, but only if you set a deadline for a release. In this case however, you put that feature on a list that blocks every release. That means, even if JM and Christophe just stop working and leave the project and nobody is working on this anymore, we couldn't release 1.6 because this feature is missing. You are saying that it will only go in if it makes it before beta and at the same time you are saying that you will wait for beta to be released until this feature is in.
I value the work that JM and Christophe are doing and I really would love to see this feature implemented in Joomla, however I also have the questions that I posted below and even more and nobody cared to answer them to me. This is also not the first time that I've asked (some of) these questions.
Joomla is at least 5 years behind on development in terms of technology and with Joomla 1.6 we might be able to come 3 years closer. But that still makes us inferior to other projects. We are currently living of of our huge user base and decent usability, but that is not something that will stay the same without some progress. Other projects will catch up (and for example Wordpress has caught up) on usability and then we will only have the user base. And users will vote with their feet which system is better. Releasing Joomla 1.6 as soon as possible is key to the survival of this project. So PLEASE let us focus on the features that are already in trunk and that we promised the people out there. Let us make the trunk stable and release a beta soon. If you really stick to your own word, the release cycle for 1.7 will only be half a year and this and a lot of other cool features can be implemented. There are at least a dozen people with code for 1.7 waiting for the 1.6 release.
And yes, it does make a difference if we release this month or in 3 months or in half a year. At this point, every day counts.
> Hannes, I am only going to say this once. If you want to be this > critical about something someone else is working on, then expect the > *same* critical treatment with your categories branch. You don't have > to agree with it but if you want to make a fuss then don't complain if > people object to your pet features you are working on. JM and > Christophe are working on it, it's not bothering you. If they fail to > make it work, it won't get into the trunk. Likewise, if anything you > (or I) do doesn't work, it won't go into trunk. Fair?
> On 7 April 2010 23:05, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> And the questions posted there were not answered.
>> I have three requirements for Joomla at this moment: >> 1. Working with Joomla has to be intuitive, both as an administrator and >> as a website-visitor >> 2. Features in Joomla, especially those touching core functionality, >> should be complete implementations and not stop half-way. >> 3. Joomla 1.6 Beta has to be released ASAP.
>> In the thread that you have mentioned, you are describing a behaviour >> that is not intuitive, at least not to me. Why should the filter >> redirect you to the homepage - each time? What do you do if the homepage >> isn't the featured view of com_content? What if it is a component that >> does not support multi-lingual content? Is the language switch >> represented in the URL and if so, how is it done? How is the switcher >> realised? With a module? How do you decide if that module is supposed to >> show up when you are on a subpage where you either can't select a >> different language, because you are in an article or where you don't >> know if there are content items in this category or in its children with >> mixed language? How do you get back to the "original" language? If you >> are switching both content and modules, how should Joomla work if you >> didn't select a language? Should it show all 10 modules that I have on >> the page, times the number of languages that I have installed? If you >> are only showing the modules of one type of language, why do you show >> all articles regardless of the language? From the perspective of a new >> users of Joomla: I want to create a multi-lingual site and I'm selecting >> the article to be slovenien and I'm creating the same article just in >> russian instead. I see that Joomla has a language switcher. I publish >> that one on all my pages. I click on the russian language (BTW: Is it >> the word russian or a flag? How is that flag styled?) and instead of >> seeing my article in russian, I'm redirected to the home menu item or >> the category of the current article, but I see no russian articles. I've >> said it before and I'm saying this again: This is not intuitive and it >> is not what users will expect from this feature. I hated having to tell >> every second user how to switch off the "Welcome to the Frontpage" and I >> honestly don't want to have to tell every user why the language switcher >> does not behave like he or she expected it to, like it does on every >> other website out there.
>> I'm also wondering who from the PLT approved of this feature. Its not >> like this is the first time that we've been talking about this and >> besides Jean-Marie, Ole and Christophe, who are in the PLT to coordinate >> language changes, all other members either had no opinion on this or >> didn't really want to add it to 1.6 since it has several side-effects >> and is to huge to implement just now. I'm happy to say this again, but >> if you insist on implementing this feature, it will delay the release of >> Joomla 1.6 Beta for at least another 6 months, more likely a full year.
>>> On 7 Apr, 13:30, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ok, so then what is the difference between a multi-lingual site and >>>> switching the language of content, modules and menus?
>>>> Hannes
>>>> Am 07.04.2010 12:27, schrieb Ole Ottosen (ot2sen):
>>>>> Hannes,
>>>>> Had you listened more carefully to those loong talks, then you would >>>>> be clear that the language switch is not near any multilingual content >>>>> solution or to be a full blown content translation tool. ;)
>>>>> Simply a switch to provide end-users and webmasters with option to >>>>> show content/menus/mods only with the language tagged for each of >>>>> these. So its a language switch basically, not multilingual just one >>>>> language at a time and whatever would match that language.
>>>>> It was agreed to before alpha2 released, and international community >>>>> was clear it would first be added before beta. Nothing new really.
>>>>> PLT obviously could have decided otherwise on this recently, but I >>>>> dont think intention is to go further than described.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Ole
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Hannes Papenberg >>>>> <hackwa...@googlemail.com <mailto:hackwa...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Mark, >>>>> I'm very happy, that this list has finally been made public, >>>>> however I'm >>>>> wondering why the point "Frontend language switcher/filter" is >>>>> still on >>>>> that list as just "10%" done. We had looong talks about this, where we >>>>> agreed upon adding language fields to the database tables so that a >>>>> third party extension could more easily implement multi-linguality >>>>> into >>>>> the Joomla core components. We specifically said that we didn't >>>>> want to >>>>> implement multi-lingual content in 1.6. This has been the general >>>>> consensus after the release of 1.5 2 years ago, it was the general >>>>> consensus 1 year ago when I was asked to do the release management of >>>>> 1.6 and it was the general consensus half a year ago, when we last >>>>> talked about the feature list of 1.6.
>>>>> We agreed upon this, because we all thought it would need more thought >>>>> and basically a complete rewrite of com_content to implement >>>>> multi-lingual content here and that we didn't want to delay 1.6 >>>>> for yet >>>>> another year because of this.
>>>>> I REALLY want to get 1.6 out of the door and would ask you to postpone >>>>> this task till 1.7.
>>>>> Hannes
>>>>> Am 07.04.2010 02:22, schrieb Mark Dexter: >>>>> > Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 >>>>> > beta release, here is a link to a
> Hello Andrew, > I expect nothing less than that you are critical with my work and that > you look critically at the categories2 branch. However, I think the > "pet" feature that you are talking about is the nested category system > in 1.6. I dare everyone to go into a subcategory and look at the pathway > or link to a category somewhere in the tree and then go into a > subcategory of that category and take a look at the URL. I honestly > believe, that people will rather want to have the features that were > promised to them for the last two years to be working like they expect > them to work, then having another new feature added.
> But now back to the issue at hand: The logic that you are presenting > here unfortunately is flawed. You are saying that JM and Christophe are > working on it and if they fail to make it work, it wont go in. This > approach certainly works, but only if you set a deadline for a release. > In this case however, you put that feature on a list that blocks every > release. That means, even if JM and Christophe just stop working and > leave the project and nobody is working on this anymore, we couldn't > release 1.6 because this feature is missing. You are saying that it will > only go in if it makes it before beta and at the same time you are > saying that you will wait for beta to be released until this feature is in.
> I value the work that JM and Christophe are doing and I really would > love to see this feature implemented in Joomla, however I also have the > questions that I posted below and even more and nobody cared to answer > them to me. This is also not the first time that I've asked (some of) > these questions.
> Joomla is at least 5 years behind on development in terms of technology > and with Joomla 1.6 we might be able to come 3 years closer. But that > still makes us inferior to other projects. We are currently living of of > our huge user base and decent usability, but that is not something that > will stay the same without some progress. Other projects will catch up > (and for example Wordpress has caught up) on usability and then we will > only have the user base. And users will vote with their feet which > system is better. Releasing Joomla 1.6 as soon as possible is key to the > survival of this project. So PLEASE let us focus on the features that > are already in trunk and that we promised the people out there. Let us > make the trunk stable and release a beta soon. If you really stick to > your own word, the release cycle for 1.7 will only be half a year and > this and a lot of other cool features can be implemented. There are at > least a dozen people with code for 1.7 waiting for the 1.6 release.
> And yes, it does make a difference if we release this month or in 3 > months or in half a year. At this point, every day counts.
> Hannes
> Am 07.04.2010 23:17, schrieb Andrew Eddie: > > Hannes, I am only going to say this once. If you want to be this > > critical about something someone else is working on, then expect the > > *same* critical treatment with your categories branch. You don't have > > to agree with it but if you want to make a fuss then don't complain if > > people object to your pet features you are working on. JM and > > Christophe are working on it, it's not bothering you. If they fail to > > make it work, it won't get into the trunk. Likewise, if anything you > > (or I) do doesn't work, it won't go into trunk. Fair?
> > On 7 April 2010 23:05, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> > wrote:
> >> And the questions posted there were not answered.
> >> I have three requirements for Joomla at this moment: > >> 1. Working with Joomla has to be intuitive, both as an administrator and > >> as a website-visitor > >> 2. Features in Joomla, especially those touching core functionality, > >> should be complete implementations and not stop half-way. > >> 3. Joomla 1.6 Beta has to be released ASAP.
> >> In the thread that you have mentioned, you are describing a behaviour > >> that is not intuitive, at least not to me. Why should the filter > >> redirect you to the homepage - each time? What do you do if the homepage > >> isn't the featured view of com_content? What if it is a component that > >> does not support multi-lingual content? Is the language switch > >> represented in the URL and if so, how is it done? How is the switcher > >> realised? With a module? How do you decide if that module is supposed to > >> show up when you are on a subpage where you either can't select a > >> different language, because you are in an article or where you don't > >> know if there are content items in this category or in its children with > >> mixed language? How do you get back to the "original" language? If you > >> are switching both content and modules, how should Joomla work if you > >> didn't select a language? Should it show all 10 modules that I have on > >> the page, times the number of languages that I have installed? If you > >> are only showing the modules of one type of language, why do you show > >> all articles regardless of the language? From the perspective of a new > >> users of Joomla: I want to create a multi-lingual site and I'm selecting > >> the article to be slovenien and I'm creating the same article just in > >> russian instead. I see that Joomla has a language switcher. I publish > >> that one on all my pages. I click on the russian language (BTW: Is it > >> the word russian or a flag? How is that flag styled?) and instead of > >> seeing my article in russian, I'm redirected to the home menu item or > >> the category of the current article, but I see no russian articles. I've > >> said it before and I'm saying this again: This is not intuitive and it > >> is not what users will expect from this feature. I hated having to tell > >> every second user how to switch off the "Welcome to the Frontpage" and I > >> honestly don't want to have to tell every user why the language switcher > >> does not behave like he or she expected it to, like it does on every > >> other website out there.
> >> I'm also wondering who from the PLT approved of this feature. Its not > >> like this is the first time that we've been talking about this and > >> besides Jean-Marie, Ole and Christophe, who are in the PLT to coordinate > >> language changes, all other members either had no opinion on this or > >> didn't really want to add it to 1.6 since it has several side-effects > >> and is to huge to implement just now. I'm happy to say this again, but > >> if you insist on implementing this feature, it will delay the release of > >> Joomla 1.6 Beta for at least another 6 months, more likely a full year.
> >>> On 7 Apr, 13:30, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Ok, so then what is the difference between a multi-lingual site and > >>>> switching the language of content, modules and menus?
> >>>> Hannes
> >>>> Am 07.04.2010 12:27, schrieb Ole Ottosen (ot2sen):
> >>>>> Hannes,
> >>>>> Had you listened more carefully to those loong talks, then you would > >>>>> be clear that the language switch is not near any multilingual > content > >>>>> solution or to be a full blown content translation tool. ;)
> >>>>> Simply a switch to provide end-users and webmasters with option to > >>>>> show content/menus/mods only with the language tagged for each of > >>>>> these. So its a language switch basically, not multilingual just one > >>>>> language at a time and whatever would match that language.
> >>>>> It was agreed to before alpha2 released, and international community > >>>>> was clear it would first be added before beta. Nothing new really.
> >>>>> PLT obviously could have decided otherwise on this recently, but I > >>>>> dont think intention is to go further than described.
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Ole
> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Hannes Papenberg > >>>>> <hackwa...@googlemail.com <mailto:hackwa...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi Mark, > >>>>> I'm very happy, that this list has finally been made public, > >>>>> however I'm > >>>>> wondering why the point "Frontend language switcher/filter" is > >>>>> still on > >>>>> that list as just "10%" done. We had looong talks about this, > where we > >>>>> agreed upon adding language fields to the database tables so that > a > >>>>> third party extension could more easily implement > multi-linguality > >>>>> into > >>>>> the Joomla core components. We specifically said that we didn't > >>>>> want to > >>>>> implement multi-lingual content in 1.6. This has been the general > >>>>> consensus after the release of 1.5 2 years ago, it was the > general > >>>>> consensus 1 year ago when I was asked to do the release > management of > >>>>> 1.6 and it was the general consensus half a year ago, when we > last > >>>>> talked about the feature list of 1.6.
> >>>>> We agreed upon this, because we all thought it would need more > thought > >>>>> and basically a complete rewrite of com_content to implement > >>>>> multi-lingual content here and that we didn't want to delay 1.6 > >>>>> for yet > >>>>> another year because of this.
> >>>>> I REALLY want to get 1.6 out of the door and would ask you to > postpone > >>>>> this task till 1.7.
> Hello Andrew, > I expect nothing less than that you are critical with my work and that > you look critically at the categories2 branch. However, I think the > "pet" feature that you are talking about is the nested category system > in 1.6. I dare everyone to go into a subcategory and look at the pathway > or link to a category somewhere in the tree and then go into a > subcategory of that category and take a look at the URL. I honestly > believe, that people will rather want to have the features that were > promised to them for the last two years to be working like they expect > them to work, then having another new feature added.
> But now back to the issue at hand: The logic that you are presenting > here unfortunately is flawed. You are saying that JM and Christophe are > working on it and if they fail to make it work, it wont go in. This > approach certainly works, but only if you set a deadline for a release. > In this case however, you put that feature on a list that blocks every > release. That means, even if JM and Christophe just stop working and > leave the project and nobody is working on this anymore, we couldn't > release 1.6 because this feature is missing. You are saying that it will > only go in if it makes it before beta and at the same time you are > saying that you will wait for beta to be released until this feature is in.
> I value the work that JM and Christophe are doing and I really would > love to see this feature implemented in Joomla, however I also have the > questions that I posted below and even more and nobody cared to answer > them to me. This is also not the first time that I've asked (some of) > these questions.
> Joomla is at least 5 years behind on development in terms of technology > and with Joomla 1.6 we might be able to come 3 years closer. But that > still makes us inferior to other projects. We are currently living of of > our huge user base and decent usability, but that is not something that > will stay the same without some progress. Other projects will catch up > (and for example Wordpress has caught up) on usability and then we will > only have the user base. And users will vote with their feet which > system is better. Releasing Joomla 1.6 as soon as possible is key to the > survival of this project. So PLEASE let us focus on the features that > are already in trunk and that we promised the people out there. Let us > make the trunk stable and release a beta soon. If you really stick to > your own word, the release cycle for 1.7 will only be half a year and > this and a lot of other cool features can be implemented. There are at > least a dozen people with code for 1.7 waiting for the 1.6 release.
> And yes, it does make a difference if we release this month or in 3 > months or in half a year. At this point, every day counts.
> Hannes
> Am 07.04.2010 23:17, schrieb Andrew Eddie:
> > Hannes, I am only going to say this once. If you want to be this > > critical about something someone else is working on, then expect the > > *same* critical treatment with your categories branch. You don't have > > to agree with it but if you want to make a fuss then don't complain if > > people object to your pet features you are working on. JM and > > Christophe are working on it, it's not bothering you. If they fail to > > make it work, it won't get into the trunk. Likewise, if anything you > > (or I) do doesn't work, it won't go into trunk. Fair?
> > On 7 April 2010 23:05, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> And the questions posted there were not answered.
> >> I have three requirements for Joomla at this moment: > >> 1. Working with Joomla has to be intuitive, both as an administrator and > >> as a website-visitor > >> 2. Features in Joomla, especially those touching core functionality, > >> should be complete implementations and not stop half-way. > >> 3. Joomla 1.6 Beta has to be released ASAP.
> >> In the thread that you have mentioned, you are describing a behaviour > >> that is not intuitive, at least not to me. Why should the filter > >> redirect you to the homepage - each time? What do you do if the homepage > >> isn't the featured view of com_content? What if it is a component that > >> does not support multi-lingual content? Is the language switch > >> represented in the URL and if so, how is it done? How is the switcher > >> realised? With a module? How do you decide if that module is supposed to > >> show up when you are on a subpage where you either can't select a > >> different language, because you are in an article or where you don't > >> know if there are content items in this category or in its children with > >> mixed language? How do you get back to the "original" language? If you > >> are switching both content and modules, how should Joomla work if you > >> didn't select a language? Should it show all 10 modules that I have on > >> the page, times the number of languages that I have installed? If you > >> are only showing the modules of one type of language, why do you show > >> all articles regardless of the language? From the perspective of a new > >> users of Joomla: I want to create a multi-lingual site and I'm selecting > >> the article to be slovenien and I'm creating the same article just in > >> russian instead. I see that Joomla has a language switcher. I publish > >> that one on all my pages. I click on the russian language (BTW: Is it > >> the word russian or a flag? How is that flag styled?) and instead of > >> seeing my article in russian, I'm redirected to the home menu item or > >> the category of the current article, but I see no russian articles. I've > >> said it before and I'm saying this again: This is not intuitive and it > >> is not what users will expect from this feature. I hated having to tell > >> every second user how to switch off the "Welcome to the Frontpage" and I > >> honestly don't want to have to tell every user why the language switcher > >> does not behave like he or she expected it to, like it does on every > >> other website out there.
> >> I'm also wondering who from the PLT approved of this feature. Its not > >> like this is the first time that we've been talking about this and > >> besides Jean-Marie, Ole and Christophe, who are in the PLT to coordinate > >> language changes, all other members either had no opinion on this or > >> didn't really want to add it to 1.6 since it has several side-effects > >> and is to huge to implement just now. I'm happy to say this again, but > >> if you insist on implementing this feature, it will delay the release of > >> Joomla 1.6 Beta for at least another 6 months, more likely a full year.
> >>> On 7 Apr, 13:30, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Ok, so then what is the difference between a multi-lingual site and > >>>> switching the language of content, modules and menus?
> >>>> Hannes
> >>>> Am 07.04.2010 12:27, schrieb Ole Ottosen (ot2sen):
> >>>>> Hannes,
> >>>>> Had you listened more carefully to those loong talks, then you would > >>>>> be clear that the language switch is not near any multilingual content > >>>>> solution or to be a full blown content translation tool. ;)
> >>>>> Simply a switch to provide end-users and webmasters with option to > >>>>> show content/menus/mods only with the language tagged for each of > >>>>> these. So its a language switch basically, not multilingual just one > >>>>> language at a time and whatever would match that language.
> >>>>> It was agreed to before alpha2 released, and international community > >>>>> was clear it would first be added before beta. Nothing new really.
> >>>>> PLT obviously could have decided otherwise on this recently, but I > >>>>> dont think intention is to go further than described.
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Ole
> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Hannes Papenberg > >>>>> <hackwa...@googlemail.com <mailto:hackwa...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi Mark, > >>>>> I'm very happy, that this list has finally been made public, > >>>>> however I'm > >>>>> wondering why the point "Frontend language switcher/filter" is > >>>>> still on > >>>>> that list as just "10%" done. We had looong talks about this, where we > >>>>> agreed upon adding language fields to the database tables so that a > >>>>> third party extension could more easily implement multi-linguality > >>>>> into > >>>>> the Joomla core components. We specifically said that we didn't > >>>>> want to > >>>>> implement multi-lingual content in 1.6. This has been the general > >>>>> consensus after the release of 1.5 2 years ago, it was the general > >>>>> consensus 1 year ago when I was asked to do the release management of > >>>>> 1.6 and it was the general consensus half a year ago, when we last > >>>>> talked about the feature list of 1.6.
> >>>>> We agreed upon this, because we all thought it would need more thought > >>>>> and basically a complete rewrite of com_content to implement > >>>>> multi-lingual content here and that we didn't want to delay 1.6 > >>>>> for yet > >>>>> another year because of this.
> >>>>> I REALLY want to get 1.6 out of the door and would ask you to postpone > >>>>> this task till 1.7.
> >>>>> Hannes
> >>>>> Am 07.04.2010 02:22, schrieb Mark Dexter: > >>>>> > Hi all. For those of you who are interested in the status of the 1.6 > >>>>> > beta release, here is a link to a
concerning langswitcher, development was delayed because we had to concentrate on other issues concerning languages. It is clear, looking at changelog, that we did in a few weeks what had not been seriously considered by the former RT. And it is not finished yet. 1.6 without proper Internationalisation (even a beta) is just useless. We can't release less than what we got in 1.5 and have to correct what was wrong in 1.5. I am now refactoring libraries ini/keys, which are filled with hardcoded strings or/and JText without sprintf. Then I will go on consolidating keys with common values when these do not create issues in any language. Then working on the ini/keys for the remaining components which still need heavy lifting/debugging before I can work on them.
When Christophe will be back from holidays, we will work on langswitcher and in any case, that feature will NOT delay 1.6 for one second. There are many more important issues not solved in present trunk which prevent beta release than langswitcher. If we are not ready or find issues which would jeopardise 1.7+ proper full internationalisation, it just will not be included, as Andrew rightfully wrote above. This is NOT preventing any of us from doing other necessary stuff to get a beta out. Some of your questions above are among the ones we have to deal with indeed. So, please just let us breath a bit. When we feel we can present something solid to all, we will call for feedback.
Thank you for your attention.
On 8 avr, 10:42, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hello Andrew, > I expect nothing less than that you are critical with my work and that > you look critically at the categories2 branch. However, I think the > "pet" feature that you are talking about is the nested category system > in 1.6. I dare everyone to go into a subcategory and look at the pathway > or link to a category somewhere in the tree and then go into a > subcategory of that category and take a look at the URL. I honestly > believe, that people will rather want to have the features that were > promised to them for the last two years to be working like they expect > them to work, then having another new feature added.
> But now back to the issue at hand: The logic that you are presenting > here unfortunately is flawed. You are saying that JM and Christophe are > working on it and if they fail to make it work, it wont go in. This > approach certainly works, but only if you set a deadline for a release. > In this case however, you put that feature on a list that blocks every > release. That means, even if JM and Christophe just stop working and > leave the project and nobody is working on this anymore, we couldn't > release 1.6 because this feature is missing. You are saying that it will > only go in if it makes it before beta and at the same time you are > saying that you will wait for beta to be released until this feature is in.
> I value the work that JM and Christophe are doing and I really would > love to see this feature implemented in Joomla, however I also have the > questions that I posted below and even more and nobody cared to answer > them to me. This is also not the first time that I've asked (some of) > these questions.
> Joomla is at least 5 years behind on development in terms of technology > and with Joomla 1.6 we might be able to come 3 years closer. But that > still makes us inferior to other projects. We are currently living of of > our huge user base and decent usability, but that is not something that > will stay the same without some progress. Other projects will catch up > (and for example Wordpress has caught up) on usability and then we will > only have the user base. And users will vote with their feet which > system is better. Releasing Joomla 1.6 as soon as possible is key to the > survival of this project. So PLEASE let us focus on the features that > are already in trunk and that we promised the people out there. Let us > make the trunk stable and release a beta soon. If you really stick to > your own word, the release cycle for 1.7 will only be half a year and > this and a lot of other cool features can be implemented. There are at > least a dozen people with code for 1.7 waiting for the 1.6 release.
> And yes, it does make a difference if we release this month or in 3 > months or in half a year. At this point, every day counts.
> Hannes
> Am 07.04.2010 23:17, schrieb Andrew Eddie:
> > Hannes, I am only going to say this once. If you want to be this > > critical about something someone else is working on, then expect the > > *same* critical treatment with your categories branch. You don't have > > to agree with it but if you want to make a fuss then don't complain if > > people object to your pet features you are working on. JM and > > Christophe are working on it, it's not bothering you. If they fail to > > make it work, it won't get into the trunk. Likewise, if anything you > > (or I) do doesn't work, it won't go into trunk. Fair?
> > On 7 April 2010 23:05, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> And the questions posted there were not answered.
> >> I have three requirements for Joomla at this moment: > >> 1. Working with Joomla has to be intuitive, both as an administrator and > >> as a website-visitor > >> 2. Features in Joomla, especially those touching core functionality, > >> should be complete implementations and not stop half-way. > >> 3. Joomla 1.6 Beta has to be released ASAP.
> >> In the thread that you have mentioned, you are describing a behaviour > >> that is not intuitive, at least not to me. Why should the filter > >> redirect you to the homepage - each time? What do you do if the homepage > >> isn't the featured view of com_content? What if it is a component that > >> does not support multi-lingual content? Is the language switch > >> represented in the URL and if so, how is it done? How is the switcher > >> realised? With a module? How do you decide if that module is supposed to > >> show up when you are on a subpage where you either can't select a > >> different language, because you are in an article or where you don't > >> know if there are content items in this category or in its children with > >> mixed language? How do you get back to the "original" language? If you > >> are switching both content and modules, how should Joomla work if you > >> didn't select a language? Should it show all 10 modules that I have on > >> the page, times the number of languages that I have installed? If you > >> are only showing the modules of one type of language, why do you show > >> all articles regardless of the language? From the perspective of a new > >> users of Joomla: I want to create a multi-lingual site and I'm selecting > >> the article to be slovenien and I'm creating the same article just in > >> russian instead. I see that Joomla has a language switcher. I publish > >> that one on all my pages. I click on the russian language (BTW: Is it > >> the word russian or a flag? How is that flag styled?) and instead of > >> seeing my article in russian, I'm redirected to the home menu item or > >> the category of the current article, but I see no russian articles. I've > >> said it before and I'm saying this again: This is not intuitive and it > >> is not what users will expect from this feature. I hated having to tell > >> every second user how to switch off the "Welcome to the Frontpage" and I > >> honestly don't want to have to tell every user why the language switcher > >> does not behave like he or she expected it to, like it does on every > >> other website out there.
> >> I'm also wondering who from the PLT approved of this feature. Its not > >> like this is the first time that we've been talking about this and > >> besides Jean-Marie, Ole and Christophe, who are in the PLT to coordinate > >> language changes, all other members either had no opinion on this or > >> didn't really want to add it to 1.6 since it has several side-effects > >> and is to huge to implement just now. I'm happy to say this again, but > >> if you insist on implementing this feature, it will delay the release of > >> Joomla 1.6 Beta for at least another 6 months, more likely a full year.
> >>> On 7 Apr, 13:30, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Ok, so then what is the difference between a multi-lingual site and > >>>> switching the language of content, modules and menus?
> >>>> Hannes
> >>>> Am 07.04.2010 12:27, schrieb Ole Ottosen (ot2sen):
> >>>>> Hannes,
> >>>>> Had you listened more carefully to those loong talks, then you would > >>>>> be clear that the language switch is not near any multilingual content > >>>>> solution or to be a full blown content translation tool. ;)
> >>>>> Simply a switch to provide end-users and webmasters with option to > >>>>> show content/menus/mods only with the language tagged for each of > >>>>> these. So its a language switch basically, not multilingual just one > >>>>> language at a time and whatever would match that language.
> >>>>> It was agreed to before alpha2 released, and international community > >>>>> was clear it would first be added before beta. Nothing new really.
> >>>>> PLT obviously could have decided otherwise on this recently, but I > >>>>> dont think intention is to go further than described.
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Ole
> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Hannes Papenberg > >>>>> <hackwa...@googlemail.com <mailto:hackwa...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi Mark, > >>>>> I'm very happy, that this list has finally been made public, > >>>>> however I'm > >>>>> wondering why the point "Frontend language
I didn't understand the goal for the language switcher, maybe I have missed something? Anyway I ask myself for what stands the "10% ready" for: 10% from a day or 10% from a month?
We should only think about doing things in the trunk when we have a solid concept about what we are adding.
>>I didn't understand the goal for the language switcher, maybe I have
missed something? Anyway I ask myself for what stands the "10% ready" for: 10% from a day or 10% from a month?
Hi ,
it seems reasonable for me to get 1.6 out as fast as possible. A lot of people are still waiting. We reached a lot until now. The last weeks we all were very busy and we did a big step forward. To learn how to handle all the new functionalities, joomla offers now, is hard enough for our users. So I thing it will be no prob to add this feature later. Maybe it is even better, than it demands more attention and the users are more certain with all the new stuff.
> >>I didn't understand the goal for the language switcher, maybe I have > missed something? Anyway I ask myself for what stands the "10% ready" > for: 10% from a day or 10% from a month?
> Hi ,
> it seems reasonable for me to get 1.6 out as fast as possible. > A lot of people are still waiting. We reached a lot until now. > The last weeks we all were very busy and we did a big step forward. > To learn how to handle all the new functionalities, joomla offers now, is > hard enough for our users. > So I thing it will be no prob to add this feature later. > Maybe it is even better, than it demands more attention and the users are > more certain with all the new stuff.
> Bye Angie
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Joomla! CMS Development" group. > To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<joomla-dev-cms%2Bunsubscribe@go oglegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
JM, no one is saying that we should release a 1.6 stable with less internationalization than what we did with 1.5. However, refactoring keys can still be done during the beta phase.
Unless I hear some strong arguments against the changes in the categories2 branch, I will merge the changes over the course of saturday. Then we will have a pretty solid and working trunk. The only things really missing from the beta blocker list are the frontend templates, which basically just wait for the categories2 branch, and the comments extension. Everything else is done and we will only have to do bugfixing. However, the list that we are talking about is the beta blocker list. That means, everything on there is a beta blocker and the languageswitcher IS on there.
We are not making a step backwards when we implement this switcher in 1.7, which is, as I already wrote earlier today, just half a year away from the release of 1.6.
Call it a marketing stunt, but only if we release a beta, we will be able to get people interested in us again and helping out with bugfixing, development and all the other stuff. I know half a dozen people that tell and told me that they will look at Joomla again when we release a (feature-complete) beta, but not before that. I know it practically is only semantics, but it is important to people and I think it also is important for us to finally have a new milestone that we reached.
@Matt These features are certainly not something that we can introduce with an upgrade package. We can add this in 1.7, but not in a 1.6.x release.
@All Please let us focus on getting 1.6 beta done. Releasing in summer in my book is already to late.
> concerning langswitcher, development was delayed because we had to > concentrate on other issues concerning languages. > It is clear, looking at changelog, that we did in a few weeks what had > not been seriously considered by the former RT. > And it is not finished yet. > 1.6 without proper Internationalisation (even a beta) is just useless. > We can't release less than what we got in 1.5 and have to correct what > was wrong in 1.5. > I am now refactoring libraries ini/keys, which are filled with > hardcoded strings or/and JText without sprintf. > Then I will go on consolidating keys with common values when these do > not create issues in any language. > Then working on the ini/keys for the remaining components which still > need heavy lifting/debugging before I can work on them.
> When Christophe will be back from holidays, we will work on > langswitcher and in any case, that feature will NOT delay 1.6 for one > second. > There are many more important issues not solved in present trunk which > prevent beta release than langswitcher. > If we are not ready or find issues which would jeopardise 1.7+ proper > full internationalisation, it just will not be included, as Andrew > rightfully wrote above. > This is NOT preventing any of us from doing other necessary stuff to > get a beta out. > Some of your questions above are among the ones we have to deal with > indeed. > So, please just let us breath a bit. > When we feel we can present something solid to all, we will call for > feedback.
> Thank you for your attention.
> On 8 avr, 10:42, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Andrew, >> I expect nothing less than that you are critical with my work and that >> you look critically at the categories2 branch. However, I think the >> "pet" feature that you are talking about is the nested category system >> in 1.6. I dare everyone to go into a subcategory and look at the pathway >> or link to a category somewhere in the tree and then go into a >> subcategory of that category and take a look at the URL. I honestly >> believe, that people will rather want to have the features that were >> promised to them for the last two years to be working like they expect >> them to work, then having another new feature added.
>> But now back to the issue at hand: The logic that you are presenting >> here unfortunately is flawed. You are saying that JM and Christophe are >> working on it and if they fail to make it work, it wont go in. This >> approach certainly works, but only if you set a deadline for a release. >> In this case however, you put that feature on a list that blocks every >> release. That means, even if JM and Christophe just stop working and >> leave the project and nobody is working on this anymore, we couldn't >> release 1.6 because this feature is missing. You are saying that it will >> only go in if it makes it before beta and at the same time you are >> saying that you will wait for beta to be released until this feature is in.
>> I value the work that JM and Christophe are doing and I really would >> love to see this feature implemented in Joomla, however I also have the >> questions that I posted below and even more and nobody cared to answer >> them to me. This is also not the first time that I've asked (some of) >> these questions.
>> Joomla is at least 5 years behind on development in terms of technology >> and with Joomla 1.6 we might be able to come 3 years closer. But that >> still makes us inferior to other projects. We are currently living of of >> our huge user base and decent usability, but that is not something that >> will stay the same without some progress. Other projects will catch up >> (and for example Wordpress has caught up) on usability and then we will >> only have the user base. And users will vote with their feet which >> system is better. Releasing Joomla 1.6 as soon as possible is key to the >> survival of this project. So PLEASE let us focus on the features that >> are already in trunk and that we promised the people out there. Let us >> make the trunk stable and release a beta soon. If you really stick to >> your own word, the release cycle for 1.7 will only be half a year and >> this and a lot of other cool features can be implemented. There are at >> least a dozen people with code for 1.7 waiting for the 1.6 release.
>> And yes, it does make a difference if we release this month or in 3 >> months or in half a year. At this point, every day counts.
>> Hannes
>> Am 07.04.2010 23:17, schrieb Andrew Eddie:
>>> Hannes, I am only going to say this once. If you want to be this >>> critical about something someone else is working on, then expect the >>> *same* critical treatment with your categories branch. You don't have >>> to agree with it but if you want to make a fuss then don't complain if >>> people object to your pet features you are working on. JM and >>> Christophe are working on it, it's not bothering you. If they fail to >>> make it work, it won't get into the trunk. Likewise, if anything you >>> (or I) do doesn't work, it won't go into trunk. Fair?
>>> On 7 April 2010 23:05, Hannes Papenberg <hackwa...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>> And the questions posted there were not answered.
>>>> I have three requirements for Joomla at this moment: >>>> 1. Working with Joomla has to be intuitive, both as an administrator and >>>> as a website-visitor >>>> 2. Features in Joomla, especially those touching core functionality, >>>> should be complete implementations and not stop half-way. >>>> 3. Joomla 1.6 Beta has to be released ASAP.
>>>> In the thread that you have mentioned, you are describing a behaviour >>>> that is not intuitive, at least not to me. Why should the filter >>>> redirect you to the homepage - each time? What do you do if the homepage >>>> isn't the featured view of com_content? What if it is a component that >>>> does not support multi-lingual content? Is the language switch >>>> represented in the URL and if so, how is it done? How is the switcher >>>> realised? With a module? How do you decide if that module is supposed to >>>> show up when you are on a subpage where you either can't select a >>>> different language, because you are in an article or where you don't >>>> know if there are content items in this category or in its children with >>>> mixed language? How do you get back to the "original" language? If you >>>> are switching both content and modules, how should Joomla work if you >>>> didn't select a language? Should it show all 10 modules that I have on >>>> the page, times the number of languages that I have installed? If you >>>> are only showing the modules of one type of language, why do you show >>>> all articles regardless of the language? From the perspective of a new >>>> users of Joomla: I want to create a multi-lingual site and I'm selecting >>>> the article to be slovenien and I'm creating the same article just in >>>> russian instead. I see that Joomla has a language switcher. I publish >>>> that one on all my pages. I click on the russian language (BTW: Is it >>>> the word russian or a flag? How is that flag styled?) and instead of >>>> seeing my article in russian, I'm redirected to the home menu item or >>>> the category of the current article, but I see no russian articles. I've >>>> said it before and I'm saying this again: This is not intuitive and it >>>> is not what users will expect from this feature. I hated having to tell >>>> every second user how to switch off the "Welcome to the Frontpage" and I >>>> honestly don't want to have to tell every user why the language switcher >>>> does not behave like he or she expected it to, like it does on every >>>> other website out there.
>>>> I'm also wondering who from the PLT approved of this feature. Its not >>>> like this is the first time that we've been talking about this and >>>> besides Jean-Marie, Ole and Christophe, who are in the PLT to coordinate >>>> language changes, all other members either had
