Standing on/Walking on Graves
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Marc Barinbaum
Apr 17, 2013, 3:14:10 PM4/17/13
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I recently attended a funeral at a cemetery in Northern Virginia. The tent and tarp were set up directly on graves. I understand the same practice exists at a cemetery in Montgomery County, Maryland. Is this something to be concerned about? The funeral at the Northern Virginia Cemetery was administered by an Orthodox Rabbi and I assume that he was aware of the situation. I am awaiting an answer from my Conservative rabbi.
I'm just curious what others think because I think that this is "zilzul" (disrespect) ha'met.
Thanks.
Marc Barinbaum
Bethesda, Maryland
Kerry Swartz
Apr 18, 2013, 8:54:40 AM4/18/13
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I'm not entirely clear
about which kind of tent you mean unless it was pouring rain in which
case it may have been to avoid having the grave fill with water prior to
internment. Or it could have been there as comfort and protection from
the elements for the immediate family. With respect to tarps and the
like, some cemeteries are laid out in such away that digging a grave and
creating a dirt pile just obliges one to work between, beside, around,
within existing graves. We often lay down sheets of plywood and cover
them with tarps to protect neighboring graves. Sometimes their markers
or monuments are moved aside so as to protect them from damage before,
during and after the newly interred funeral. All is done with great care
to protect existing graves and returned to their original condition
afterwards. Sometimes there is some wear to grass or topsoil that is
attending to asap.
Or have I missed your point completely?
I just came from a funeral in central Canada where the ground was completely covered with a foot or more of snow. None of the graves had above ground markers, so how they located the plot in question was a mystery. When the funeral took place, a pathway had been plowed through the snow so people could gather around the grave. As people moved about and snow in certain areas eventually melted, some of us realized we were standing atop bronze markers from the 50s and 60s, others covering wide swaths of interred families.
Or have I missed your point completely?
I just came from a funeral in central Canada where the ground was completely covered with a foot or more of snow. None of the graves had above ground markers, so how they located the plot in question was a mystery. When the funeral took place, a pathway had been plowed through the snow so people could gather around the grave. As people moved about and snow in certain areas eventually melted, some of us realized we were standing atop bronze markers from the 50s and 60s, others covering wide swaths of interred families.
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Sandy Rife
Apr 18, 2013, 1:32:48 PM4/18/13
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Marc,
I agree with you but the reality is that most cemeteries cannot do otherwise. The rabbis will also agree with you. There is a solution for new cemeteries or existing cemeteries with unused land. Mt. Sinai in Phoenix, AZ was designed with sidewalks in front of every grave. Many graves and a lot of revenue were relinquished in order to provide the utmost of respect to the deceased. We are continually complimented for doing this. Anyone wanting a photo, please email me.
Sandy Rife
General Manager
Mt. Sinai
--
cil...@comcast.net
Apr 18, 2013, 12:42:02 PM4/18/13
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Marc -
Like many things in the Jewish world, I believe practices vary. I have been to a Reform funeral at which people walked over graves with no concern. Some people (not during a funeral) have picnics on the graves of loved ones. Other people feel uncomfortable walking on graves.
Susan
From: "Marc Barinbaum" <mach...@ryamar.com>
To: jewish-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 12:14:10 PM
Subject: [jewish-funerals] Standing on/Walking on Graves
--
Libby Bottero
Apr 18, 2013, 10:11:53 PM4/18/13
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Our Jewish cemetery is located within an older pioneer cemetery. The
cemetery has originally platted survey pins buried in the ground so the
exact plot location can be made with a metal detector, even in the snow.
Gravediggers contracted by the funeral homes try to be as respectful as
possible, laying down plywood on adjacent plots to hold the excavated
dirt for a burial, setting up a temporary tent if there is bad weather,
and a few chairs for those too elderly or weak to stand. As Kerry
wrote, all of this is done with great care and respect, and after
filling in the grave, the neighboring plots are restored as much as
possible to a natural condition. We do the best we can...
Libby
Kerry Swartz wrote:
> I'm not entirely clear about which kind of tent you mean unless it was
> pouring rain in which case it may have been to avoid having the grave
> fill with water prior to internment. Or it could have been there as
> comfort and protection from the elements for the immediate family.
> With respect to tarps and the like, some cemeteries are laid out in
> such away that digging a grave and creating a dirt pile just obliges
> one to work between, beside, around, within existing graves. We often
> lay down sheets of plywood and cover them with tarps to protect
> neighboring graves. Sometimes their markers or monuments are moved
> aside so as to protect them from damage before, during and after the
> newly interred funeral. All is done with great care to protect
> existing graves and returned to their original condition afterwards.
> Sometimes there is some wear to grass or topsoil that is attending to
> asap.
>
> Or have I missed your point completely?
>
> I just came from a funeral in central Canada where the ground was
> completely covered with a foot or more of snow. None of the graves had
> above ground markers, so how they located the plot in question was a
> mystery. When the funeral took place, a pathway had been plowed
> through the snow so people could gather around the grave. As people
> moved about and snow in certain areas eventually melted, some of us
> realized we were standing atop bronze markers from the 50s and 60s,
> others covering wide swaths of interred families.
>
>> Marc Barinbaum <mailto:mach...@ryamar.com>
cemetery has originally platted survey pins buried in the ground so the
exact plot location can be made with a metal detector, even in the snow.
Gravediggers contracted by the funeral homes try to be as respectful as
possible, laying down plywood on adjacent plots to hold the excavated
dirt for a burial, setting up a temporary tent if there is bad weather,
and a few chairs for those too elderly or weak to stand. As Kerry
wrote, all of this is done with great care and respect, and after
filling in the grave, the neighboring plots are restored as much as
possible to a natural condition. We do the best we can...
Libby
Kerry Swartz wrote:
> I'm not entirely clear about which kind of tent you mean unless it was
> pouring rain in which case it may have been to avoid having the grave
> fill with water prior to internment. Or it could have been there as
> comfort and protection from the elements for the immediate family.
> With respect to tarps and the like, some cemeteries are laid out in
> such away that digging a grave and creating a dirt pile just obliges
> one to work between, beside, around, within existing graves. We often
> lay down sheets of plywood and cover them with tarps to protect
> neighboring graves. Sometimes their markers or monuments are moved
> aside so as to protect them from damage before, during and after the
> newly interred funeral. All is done with great care to protect
> existing graves and returned to their original condition afterwards.
> Sometimes there is some wear to grass or topsoil that is attending to
> asap.
>
> Or have I missed your point completely?
>
> I just came from a funeral in central Canada where the ground was
> completely covered with a foot or more of snow. None of the graves had
> above ground markers, so how they located the plot in question was a
> mystery. When the funeral took place, a pathway had been plowed
> through the snow so people could gather around the grave. As people
> moved about and snow in certain areas eventually melted, some of us
> realized we were standing atop bronze markers from the 50s and 60s,
> others covering wide swaths of interred families.
>
Kerry Swartz
Apr 19, 2013, 1:23:57 PM4/19/13
to jewish-...@googlegroups.com
Despite precautions we
take beforehand, as Libby has also detailed, sometimes funerals have a
large number of attendees. Most of the local cemeteries have clearly
paved and/or demarcated pathways. That said, once the casket is in
place, most every Rabbi I've worked with call those in attendance to
"gather round" for final prayers, words, casket lowering and dirt
shoveling. At that point it's nearly, if not simply, impossible to
exercise "polite" crowd control as people are moving in every possible
direction.
At these points, not only do we ask the deceased for forgiveness for anything we (the CK) or those gathered may have done to disrespect their honor but many Rabbis will also ask forgiveness from those "neighbors" who have been disturbed by the funeral and its preparations.
What more can you do?
At these points, not only do we ask the deceased for forgiveness for anything we (the CK) or those gathered may have done to disrespect their honor but many Rabbis will also ask forgiveness from those "neighbors" who have been disturbed by the funeral and its preparations.
What more can you do?
Our Jewish cemetery is located within an older pioneer cemetery. The cemetery has originally platted survey pins buried in the ground so the exact plot location can be made with a metal detector, even in the snow. Gravediggers contracted by the funeral homes try to be as respectful as possible, laying down plywood on adjacent plots to hold the excavated dirt for a burial, setting up a temporary tent if there is bad weather, and a few chairs for those too elderly or weak to stand. As Kerry wrote, all of this is done with great care and respect, and after filling in the grave, the neighboring plots are restored as much as possible to a natural condition. We do the best we can...
Libby
I'm not entirely clear about which kind of tent you mean unless it was pouring rain in which case it may have been to avoid having the grave fill with water prior to internment. Or it could have been there as comfort and protection from the elements for the immediate family. With respect to tarps and the like, some cemeteries are laid out in such away that digging a grave and creating a dirt pile just obliges one to work between, beside, around, within existing graves. We often lay down sheets of plywood and cover them with tarps to protect neighboring graves. Sometimes their markers or monuments are moved aside so as to protect them from damage before, during and after the newly interred funeral. All is done with great care to protect existing graves and returned to their original condition afterwards. Sometimes there is some wear to grass or topsoil that is attending to asap.
Or have I missed your point completely?
I just came from a funeral in central Canada where the ground was completely covered with a foot or more of snow. None of the graves had above ground markers, so how they located the plot in question was a mystery. When the funeral took place, a pathway had been plowed through the snow so people could gather around the grave. As people moved about and snow in certain areas eventually melted, some of us realized we were standing atop bronze markers from the 50s and 60s, others covering wide swaths of interred families.
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April 17, 2013 12:14 pm
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