*With Matt Walsh meeting with the Commish it has become clear that the Patriots lied. Two key points were, Walsh was told not to get caught, which goes counter to BB's statement that he thought it was legal. Secondly, BB stated that they were only used for divisional opponents. Several of the teams filmed in the eight tapes that were released were not divisional opponents.
Given that he lied about these two aspects how can you believe anything that he has said. You must assume that he taped everybody that the Patriots played from 2000 onwards. He knew it was against the rules. They used the tapes during individual games to gain an advantage.
If we assume the worst and that they taped every game from the time that BB took the reins of the organization then the NFL fines and draft pick forfeiture amount to:-
Patriots organization fined $5172.41 per game ($4213.48 if you include preseason) Bill Belichick fined $3488.28 per game ($2808.99 if you include preseason)
Patriots forced to surrender the eqivalent of a 4th rounder between number 13-14 pick for each of the years that they were cheating.
To me that doesn't seem like very much...what do you think??? I am sure Pacman Jones would have been very happy to be hit this hard.
Fuhgeddiboutit Paul. This is going to be swept under the rug. You really think the league will admit to a POSSIBILITY of tainted Super Bowl wins?
Paul Lawson <palwal...@gmail.com> wrote: Spygate Revisited
With Matt Walsh meeting with the Commish it has become clear that the Patriots lied. Two key points were, Walsh was told not to get caught, which goes counter to BB's statement that he thought it was legal. Secondly, BB stated that they were only used for divisional opponents. Several of the teams filmed in the eight tapes that were released were not divisional opponents.
Given that he lied about these two aspects how can you believe anything that he has said. You must assume that he taped everybody that the Patriots played from 2000 onwards. He knew it was against the rules. They used the tapes during individual games to gain an advantage.
If we assume the worst and that they taped every game from the time that BB took the reins of the organization then the NFL fines and draft pick forfeiture amount to:-
Patriots organization fined $5172.41 per game ($4213.48 if you include preseason) Bill Belichick fined $3488.28 per game ($2808.99 if you include preseason)
Patriots forced to surrender the eqivalent of a 4th rounder between number 13-14 pick for each of the years that they were cheating.
To me that doesn't seem like very much...what do you think??? I am sure Pacman Jones would have been very happy to be hit this hard.
Seriously, it's like the wizard of oz... man behind the curtain? what man? move along, nothing to see here, move along.... the NFL is smart enough to not want the Pats to turn into their version of Barry Bonds
> From: Safyre 913 <safyre...@yahoo.com> > Subject: [Jets Digest] Re: Spygate Revisited > To: jetsdigest@googlegroups.com > Date: Thursday, May 15, 2008, 10:00 AM > Fuhgeddiboutit Paul. This is going to be swept under the > rug. You really think the league will admit to a > POSSIBILITY of tainted Super Bowl wins?
> Paul Lawson <palwal...@gmail.com> wrote: Spygate > Revisited
> With Matt Walsh meeting with the Commish it has become > clear that the Patriots lied. Two key points were, Walsh > was told not to get caught, which goes counter to BB's > statement that he thought it was legal. Secondly, BB stated > that they were only used for divisional opponents. Several > of the teams filmed in the eight tapes that were released > were not divisional opponents.
> Given that he lied about these two aspects how can you > believe anything that he has said. You must assume that he > taped everybody that the Patriots played from 2000 onwards. > He knew it was against the rules. They used the tapes during > individual games to gain an advantage.
> If we assume the worst and that they taped every game from > the time that BB took the reins of the organization then > the NFL fines and draft pick forfeiture amount to:-
> Patriots organization fined $5172.41 per game ($4213.48 if > you include preseason) > Bill Belichick fined $3488.28 per game ($2808.99 if you > include preseason)
> Patriots forced to surrender the eqivalent of a 4th rounder > between number 13-14 pick for each of the years that they > were cheating.
> To me that doesn't seem like very much...what do you > think??? I am sure Pacman Jones would have been very happy > to be hit this hard.
Sean writes: >Seriously, it's like the wizard of oz... man behind the curtain? what
man? >move along, nothing to see here, move along.... the NFL is smart enough to >not want the Pats to turn into their version of Barry Bonds
Agreed. But I also have to say how sick I am of this whole silly thing. I mean, there is no one who loves to see that arrogant SOB squirm more than me. But where exactly does Arlen Specter get off threatening to waste more taxpayer money on a "Mitchell Report-like" investigation? With the steroid thing in baseball, you could squint your way to kinda-sorta rationalizing it (even thought I thought it was BS), since there were illegal substances involved. But with this? If they cheated, they cheated by the standards set forth by the league they play in, which makes this a league issue, not a legislative one.
I would hope our elected officials have more important things to concern themselves with, but then again, it *is* an election year.
A friend just told me a guy he knows - a Giants season ticket holder - got a notice that $5000.00 PSL (per seat) is being invoiced. Not a one-time fee either - 5 or 10 years. Anyone have any reliable info on this? We padding the seats in the new stadium with cash?
I agree that this will go away, I just wanted to put it into perspective, how small the punishment, absolutely trivial really, in comparison to the player punishments that have been handed down...
PAL
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 10:15 AM, Ferraro, Ron <ron.ferr...@neustar.biz> wrote:
> >Seriously, it's like the wizard of oz... man behind the curtain? what > man? >move along, nothing to see here, move along.... the NFL is smart > enough to >not want the Pats to turn into their version of Barry Bonds
> Agreed. But I also have to say how sick I am of this whole silly thing. > I mean, there is no one who loves to see that arrogant SOB squirm more > than me. But where exactly does Arlen Specter get off threatening to > waste more taxpayer money on a "Mitchell Report-like" investigation? > With the steroid thing in baseball, you could squint your way to > kinda-sorta rationalizing it (even thought I thought it was BS), since > there were illegal substances involved. But with this? If they > cheated, they cheated by the standards set forth by the league they play > in, which makes this a league issue, not a legislative one.
> I would hope our elected officials have more important things to concern > themselves with, but then again, it *is* an election year.
Paul writes: > I agree that this will go away, I just wanted to put it > into perspective, how small the punishment, absolutely > trivial really, in comparison to the player punishments > that have been handed down...
Because the crime is absolutely trivial. Everybody speeds down the same highway, they may have used a radar detector. BFD.
--- On Thu, 5/15/08, Alan Topal <ATo...@uamail.albany.edu> wrote:
> Because the crime is absolutely trivial. Everybody speeds > down the same highway, they may have used a radar detector. BFD.
I agree that both the MLB and any upcoming NFL investigation by the congress is a waste of time and (more importantly) tax payer money.
But the Pats taping being "absolutely trivial" is, at best, debateable. We have no idea what other teams did or didn't do, just like we don't really have any idea which MLB players (other than certain ones) were juiced. In fact we don't even know exactly what the Pats did and the NFL quickly disposed of whatever records there might have been.
And without knowing the whole truth, it's impossible to say exactly what effect the taping had.
At this point it's just as easy to make the argument that their taping was a HUGE advantage as it is that it didn't make any difference. The truth is almost certainly somewhere in between. Not much point in making either argument though given what little we'll ever know.
Sean writes: > --- On Thu, 5/15/08, Alan Topal <ATo...@uamail.albany.edu> wrote:
> > Because the crime is absolutely trivial. Everybody speeds down the > > same highway, they may have used a radar detector. BFD.
> I agree that both the MLB and any upcoming NFL investigation > by the congress is a waste of time and (more importantly) > tax payer money.
> But the Pats taping being "absolutely trivial" is, at best, > debateable. We have no idea what other teams did or didn't > do, just like we don't really have any idea which MLB players > (other than certain ones) were juiced. In fact we don't even > know exactly what the Pats did and the NFL quickly disposed > of whatever records there might have been.
Here's what the Pats did: they tried to figure out what the other team was going to do before they did it. Same as every other team in the league. That's the intent, that's the "crime". So long as they didn't steal the playbook or spy on a meeting, I don't really care what tool they used to do it.
>> --- On Thu, 5/15/08, Alan Topal <ATo...@uamail.albany.edu> wrote:
>>> Because the crime is absolutely trivial. Everybody speeds down the >>> same highway, they may have used a radar detector. BFD.
>> I agree that both the MLB and any upcoming NFL investigation >> by the congress is a waste of time and (more importantly) >> tax payer money.
>> But the Pats taping being "absolutely trivial" is, at best, >> debateable. We have no idea what other teams did or didn't >> do, just like we don't really have any idea which MLB players >> (other than certain ones) were juiced. In fact we don't even >> know exactly what the Pats did and the NFL quickly disposed >> of whatever records there might have been.
> Here's what the Pats did: they tried to figure out what the other > team > was going to do before they did it. Same as every other team in the > league. That's the intent, that's the "crime". So long as they > didn't > steal the playbook or spy on a meeting, I don't really care what tool > they used to do it.
Especially if they were doing it on the road too....this more the guy on second stealing the catcher's signals than someone at that Pilo Grounds with a telescope
--- On Thu, 5/15/08, Alan Topal <ATo...@uamail.albany.edu> wrote:
> Here's what the Pats did: they tried to figure out > what the other team > was going to do before they did it. Same as every other > team in the > league. That's the intent, that's the > "crime". So long as they didn't > steal the playbook or spy on a meeting, I don't really > care what tool > they used to do it.
How is it exactly that you know what they did? Part of Belichik's inner circle?
You have no idea just like the rest of us so it's a complete matter of opinion / speculation.
Sure, every team in the league is more than willing to bend if not completely break the rules. But we'll never know to what extent the Pats "cheated" and even if we did, we'd probably never be able to figure out how common place it is among other teams.
More importantly, as I said, you can sit here sit here saying "no biggie" while I sit here saying "put an asterisk" until we're blue in the face but it's pointless b/c we just don't know enough. That's why the whole thing (and this thread) should just go away.
