GOD GOES NATIVE #4
Brother Larry
are; I can see it in their faces, as we pass on the street.
Financial, family, and weather concerns are weighing particularly
heavy on minds this year.
Imagine you, Joseph, and your young wife are on the road to your
family hometown, perhaps, even too poor to afford an animal for her to
ride. Not only that, but you know for a fact, it is not your child,
and it is a time when such things are particularly taboo. You could
have had the engagement annulled, leaving her in disgrace; or you
could go ahead and marry her. But in eyes of others, you’d be
admitting your own disgraceful behavior. You had considered breaking
it off, but then you had a dream.
You’ve had dreams before, meaningful dreams, but this was totally
different. And yet, it matched her seemingly fantastic story
completely. In it you were told that this very young, virginal woman
was going to give birth to a son, which was conceived by the Holy
Spirit. He will save His people. And His name will be ‘Jesus’.
(Matthew 1:20-21)
It all seemed very strange.
Now imagine yourself as Mary, most likely fourteen or fifteen. Wasn’t
it only last year you were playing with dolls, and learning to cook
and mend garments from your mother? Things got serious fast in your
life. The skin of your distended abdomen is taunt, stretched to its
limit, your back hurts, your feet are swollen, and you’ve been
hungrier than you’ve ever been, for the last nine months. And yet,
you are not as frightened as one might think, because you remember the
night that changed everything.
Perhaps it was prayer time, before bed. I imagine the room filled
with a pure, Heavenly light, and then an extraterrestrial appeared!
It was no less than an angel! And then he spoke those disturbing
words. “Greetings, you are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” he
exclaimed. If this wasn’t a jaw-dropping moment, I don’t know what
would be.
What, in all of creation, did that mean!? And he continued, “Don’t be
afraid! Mary, you have found favor with God. You’re going to be
pregnant, and have a son, and you’ll name him ‘Jesus’. He’ll be
great, and called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give
him the throne of his father David and he will reign over the house of
Jacob forever; His Kingdom will never end.”
Still floored, you are able to collect yourself enough to speak, “How
can that happen, I’m a virgin!” How, indeed.
He explains how the Holy Spirit will come over you, just like it did
your cousin Elizabeth, only your baby will be called “The Son of
God”. And you answer, “I am the Lord’s servant…”
Now, here you are. Nine months later, after a chilly 45 degree, rainy
evening, having passed Roman military checkpoints, you are entering
Bethlehem, and the town is packed. All of the others that could trace
their lineage back to David appear to have arrived much earlier. When
your labor pains became more frequent your husband Joseph became more
frantic, trying to find a room, or even a small corner somewhere
inside. He’s pleading with each that he speaks with, he gestures
toward you and explains that you are about to give birth.
Finally, a kind soul offers the only thing he can, a small area in a
cave, used as a barn for caravan animals. Just as you get in from the
weather your water breaks, but there is no midwife to help you.
You begin to feel the compelling urge to push, so you squat down in a
corner. Without a midwife it is up to your new groom, who you have
not had sex with, to fill the roll. Modesty would have to be
tempered.
According to Soranus, physician in 100 A.D., midwife duties would be
as follows:
Help support the mother as she squats down.
Saturate her vagina with olive oil to aid the delivery.
Insert a finger of the left hand, and then making a circular motion
gently widening the birth canal, while lubricating between
contractions with olive oil in the right hand.
When it was time for the baby to be born mom would be told to take a
deep breath and push. Then, grab the baby and pull it out, when the
uterine muscles are relaxed, and not contracted.
The umbilical cord was to be cut four finger widths from the baby,
and then tied with a piece of wool yarn.
The baby would be sprinkled with salt, rinsed with water, and
covered with olive oil, before being wrapped snuggly in cloth.
And there he lay, in an animal feeding trough. The King of Kings, The
Prince of Peace, Christ, the Messiah, The Creator of All and the
Author of Time, incarnate lay crying.
And as every mother knows her child’s cry, you know he isn’t crying
for himself.
He is crying for all the rest off us.
Mathew Enoch Mount
I would like to point out Larry that the early years of Marry
according to the Eastern Orthodox church are as follows, and I see
some theological problems with this (icons have also been made to
depict this).
"The Feast of the Entrance into the Temple of Our Most Holy Lady the
Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary is celebrated on November 21 each year.
The Feast commemorates when as a young child, the Virgin Mary entered
the Temple in Jerusalem. The birth and early life of the Virgin Mary
is not recorded in the Gospels or other books of the New Testament,
however this information can be found in a work dating from the second
century known as the Book of James or Protevangelion. When Mary was
three years old, Joachim and Anna decided that the time had come to
fulfill their promise and to offer her to the Lord. Joachim gathered
the young girls of the neighborhood to form an escort, and he made
them go in front of Mary, carrying torches. Captivated by the torches,
the young child followed joyfully to the Temple, not once looking back
at her parents nor weeping as she was parted from them. The holy
Virgin ran toward the Temple, overtaking her attendant maidens and
threw herself into the arms of the High Priest Zacharias, who was
waiting for her at the gate of the Temple with the elders. Zacharias
blessed her saying, "It is in you that He has glorified your name in
every generation. It is in you that He will reveal the Redemption that
He has prepared for His people in the last days." Then, Zacharias
brought the child into the Holy of Holies—a place where only the High
Priest was permitted to enter once a year on the Day of Atonement. He
placed her on the steps of the altar, and the grace of the Lord
descended upon her. She arose and expressed her joy in a dance as
wonder seized all who saw this happen. The Virgin Mary dwelt in the
Temple for nine years until, reaching an age for marriage, she was
taken from the Temple by the priests and elders and entrusted to
Joseph as the guardian of her virginity. The Entrance of the Theotokos
into the Temple signifies her total dedication to God and her
readiness for her future vocation as the Mother of the Incarnate Lord.
This is a feast of anticipation. As honor is shown to Mary, the
faithful are called to look forward to the Incarnation of Christ,
celebrated in a little more than a month by the Feast of the Nativity
on December 25." 1
The problem is that if we celebrated the feast day for Mary entering
the temple and bought into the story of Marry having a public display
of affection at her conception, then we would have to assume that
either Joseph was really duped as he was not told the story that
everyone else knew or Joseph was so alienated from society that he had
no clue about important events in Jewish life as what the Orthodox
church describes. Perhaps I am wrong about this point. Overall, I
find that other such literature places Mary in the temple as well in
her early years according to my knowledge, and this becomes critical
for many early Christians in explaining the conception of Jesus
Christ.
My point Larry is that your imagination to describe the early life of
Mary appears very different than the way that early Christians
envision the early life of Mary. I am glad however that you point out
the problem of Joseph having to act as a Midwife for the virgin birth
in such a way as to place him in a strange situation as Mary gives
birth to God himself. The point that could be made is that since Mary
was a virgin according to my understanding of the female anatomy
Joseph would most likely see proof of the virginity of Mary at the
birth of Jesus, and the birth would become even harder for Mary than
it would be if she was not a virgin.
Even if Joseph did want to divorce Mary and have her stoned, then the
elder would have to inspect the cloth that Joseph would lay with Mary
on in order to see if she was a virgin or not (Deuteronomy 22:13-21).
According to my understanding, Joseph would not have had the legal
right to have Mary stoned because the law appears to be written in
such a way as to indicate that in order for a man to have a woman that
he has married stoned for not being a virgin he would have to first
lay with her and prove that she is not a virgin. The point to be made
is that the law is written, in my understanding, to protect the
bridegroom form deception on the part of both the father-in-law and
the bride to indicate that a marriage is a good deal because a woman
is a virgin when in fact the in-laws could be telling a lie.
1 < http://www.goarch.org/special/listen_learn_share/vmpresentation/ >
Thank you,
Mathew Enoch Mount
mmo...@essex1.com
On Dec 22, 3:39 pm, Brother Larry
ON EARTH Ministries
The second century seems to have been a time when many rituals and writings surface in the Faith. It is my understanding that many Gnostic texts are dated from this time as well, such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel Mary Magdalene, and the still somewhat shocking Gospel of Judas, to name a few. Much of the material, I believe, was meant to exemplify the understood meaning to these believers through a sort of extrapolation. We also see many writings, in the earlier Jewish faith tradition regarding Solomon and his purported magical powers. All are considered apocryphal today, and much of it would still be judged heretical.
However, I do believe it to be good to, not only respect, but to also attempt to understand the underlying message, or meaning, of these rituals, traditions, and writings; and through this process, perhaps, catch a glimpse of the love that these unique, devout, ancient believers felt for Jesus, and our Father. This doesn’t require that I judge the author or practitioner of said ritual, doctrine, or document; only that I make a sincere effort to understand, through prayer, study, prayer, meditation and prayer, whether or not, and what place, if any, it might have in the plan our Father has for my discipleship.
Stories regarding the Joseph, as well as Jesus’ brothers and sisters, abound. Many found there origin in this second century period. I believe that this is when the idea that Joseph was an older widower; which, in a time when half of the population died before twenty, and few lived beyond fifty, was thought to explain the glaring absence of Joseph, as well as the presents of referenced “brothers and sisters” in the canonical Gospels.
If anyone in our group would understand the implications of all of this in light of Mosaic Law, I believe you would.
And as you obviously appreciate, the point of my imaginative extrapolation was to accentuate the humanity of the Nativity, and indeed, Jesus the Christ Himself. Because, I believe, without it in the forefront we loose the very substance and meaning of Jesus, and his sacrifice on our behalf.
Peace, and All Good Things,
Brother Larry Roy Woodsmall
ON EARTH MINISTRIES
mmo...@essex1.com
Hello,
Your case Larry for why we should not listen to non-canonical authors is perhaps very common and compelling, but having said that I find that much testimony of today is non-canonical. When people espouse any explanation of scripture that is not scripture itself, those people under the strictest view of cannon would be speaking outside of biblical cannon. The strictest view of biblical cannon thus teaches that the scripture does not relate to anything other than itself, and this would mean that scripture would become so far removed from our experience of reality that it can only be nothing more than a book under this view.
My point in saying this is that today many people have no quarrels with never having read the scripture during their lifetime, only listening to a church service every Sunday for a hour that makes reference to a few verses, and indulging in fantasy through television entertainment and other such resources. What is worst of all is that I have found that many of the churches that such people will attend will turn the entire scripture into just a bunch of rules that we should follow in order to keep our sanctity, and we are told that as long as we continue to attend such places of worship that involve others doing these things that we are saved or that we will be saved. Usually many churches will seek to crucify anyone that both reads the scripture and reads any other literature of the surrounding times that involves the testimony of Jesus Christ in any way, but such places will reward people that do not read the scripture and constantly indulge in fantasy.
People believe that they are safe to watch a television fantasy, but then people believe that they are at huge risk at loosing their eternal dwelling to listen to anyone talk about Jesus Christ other than the man that they see at Church that has the ‘authority’ to do such things. You are correct Larry that much writing exists during the time shortly after the crucifixion of Christ that is in grievous error, and I commend you for upholding the authority of scripture. The problem that I am talking about is that people uphold the authority of scripture so much that they are often so afraid of it that instead of turning to the scripture they turn to comedy, movies, and other such non canonical things in order to ease their troubled souls while a Holocaust of Hell is claiming victims through unbelievers entering the flames of eternal damnation just outside of the door step of the person that spends long hours seeking their own pleasure in entertaining themselves.
Many people have the attitude that they work in order to serve their pleasures later, and the idea is that people do this their entire lifetime to build much pride for themselves to show what they have earned and what their hands have made in order to demonstrate to the world their total net worth. The Golden Calf thus emerged in order that people may feel proud of themselves in what their hands had made, and many would have proclaimed that if you only follow some simple rules then everyone will be able to indulge in their own pleasures as a result of what their hard work had earned them. The ancient Israelites thus turned to fantasy because the reality is that they had been seemingly abandoned for a long time in the middle of a strange place that was almost unbearable as they abandon any trust in God in order to chase after ‘hard work’ (the making of the calf) that they could be proud of that they could use to reward themselves with the sinful pleasures of (this was made from all the golden gods of Egypt melted down and put together to make a ‘super abomination’).
Just imagine that you (I mean if you had been like some people that I know (I do not think that you are)) are about to buy a new car, and perhaps you think to yourself how proud that you are that you did all those works of yours that you will show this car off to your neighbors in order that they too may hold you in high esteem for your accomplishments. After all you earned it didn’t you, I mean the firing of all those employees during the recession that just contributed to dead weight and the sly business deals that you did just to show yourself smarter than everyone else for having tricked people out of things that had been set aside for them really sets you apart. Now you go to the dealership in order to cash in, and their is your god awaiting you as the car dealer explains how the new car will bring you all the happiness in the world and how you will be the happiest person that you know because you will have a car/god that you may drive around so that you may worship it and others may worship you too through the recognition of your greatness. Overall, you know that if others do not worship you or your car that you will have your pride stomped on, and thus you will have to show your power over them and demonstrate who is boss.
Such people may even drive their shiny new car to church in order to demonstrate to everyone how important that they have become through their hard works, and that priest or pastor may give them an extra pat on the back for having obtained such a position of prestige and power as he utters a verse or two at the pulpit in order to exemplify how blessed our works are for keeping us holy and providing us every good gift. Everyone then delights in what their hands have made, shakes each other’s hand, and goes off to fantasy land again with little to no care for the scripture. What happens when all those people go to their deaths and they are confronted by the Jewish homeless man that is God in the flesh that had such a rigger for the law of Moses that he never committed a sin but instead fulfilled the entire law to the extent of going so far as to offer himself as the sacrificial lamb for death to pass over through the cross is that people who meet this person are perhaps surprised that he does not appear as friendly or as much of a business man as the guy that they has seen their entire lifetimes every Sunday at the pulpit.
Do you suppose that such a person would say, "I had no idea." Perhaps a person would say, "I did good things all of my life, and everyone honored me for all the good things that I did so why am I in this place." Perhaps people would say, "If I had only known, then I would not spend my entire lifetime indulging in my pleasures." Perhaps a person would say, "I have three brothers, so send someone back from the dead to tell them so that they do not come to this same end." Overall, in this case the rich man all of his lifetime makes everything and everyone obedient to his authority in order that his kingdom may grow and that he may glorify himself, but the poor man that sits at the gates of the rich man is the only person noted that does not fall victim to the schemes of the rich man and thus enter into his system of worship and rewards.
I knew a family years ago that was very wealthy, and the family had some Christian upbringing and in later years a minister came over to the home and the entire family ‘got saved’ according to the testimony of the minister. The man of the household however had a high position of authority in business and he always had a story about how he took advantage of someone, and his basic belief was that everyone around him could enter into his control for his own benefit if he was clever enough to know how to offer the correct system of rewards for doing his will along with the use of deception. Overall, this guy really liked me when I was younger as he tried desperately to have me marry his daughter as the man was very controlling of everyone in his family as he also made various attempts to express his control over me as well even though I only came to his house to visit with his son that was by best friend, and thus this guy went to far as to offer his daughter to me in marriage even though she did not like me in exchange for a quarter of a million dollar trust that I would be expected to use in order to found a business and thus continue the prosperity of his daughter.
What I did not realize years ago that I realize now is that instead of withdrawing from the world in order to protect our sanctity instead we should engage the world through intercession (I still would not have married the woman). The woman that I am talking about eventually entered a promiscuous lifestyle to attempt to obtain pleasure and happiness with lots of people, and she had multiple abortions as a result. The woman’s entire family has become nothing that a person would ever like to be involved with in any way, and the problems that such people often face with incredible wealth would make anyone with a reasonable perception of the world strongly detest such ways (wealth did not make them happy).
I am not saying that we should condemn wealth and prosperity nor am I saying that we should condemn the wealthy, but what I am saying is that we should not seek after anything except for God. Christ teaches us to make intercession for one another through the things that God has given us, and we should develop in others their talents as well. Having said that the place for worldly possessions along with the place for everything else in our life is not to serve ourselves but to serve God as we find the place that those things have in our life for serving God.
If for example I obtained wealth as a result of serving God, then when I am in the market for buying a car I would have to ask myself how the new car would help me to serve God better than what I currently have (I have three vehicles and have had a fourth promised to me). Lots of people, including the poor and even various ministries, will urge you to give money to them out of service, but many of those people would never lift even the slightest finger to make intercession for you or to serve God in any way but instead will only serve themselves as like their own gods. Overall, if we invest the love of God into such people or help such people be developed, then we may in fact harm ourselves in the end because everything that we have invested into those others becomes both a waste of time and is used against us in the end (like in the crucifixion of Christ).
If Christ had never performed a miraculous work or if he had never opposed the Pharisees, then everyone would have openly embraced him with open arms for the most part. If you notice carefully, every time that Jesus did any service of any kind the Pharisees had opposed him perhaps because they did not serve anyone but themselves. Even when the woman anointed the feet of Jesus it was Judas that opposed her openly, and Judas opposed the woman because she did a good work.
Today many churches will stress obedience as centered around offertory, church attendance, and ritual, but in many cases the people that run those churches would never do anything that they did not feel that they absolutely had to do out of obedience. Such people often care very little about God, care even less about serving God, and lastly oppose anyone that actually serves God out of love. The message of salvation thus becomes like a wretched thing that only people that work diligently to obtain despite their real desires are found to obtain, and when they obtain it then they hold themselves in pride over others for having worked their way into the kingdom of God to become the lords of other people that they disciple (this is not real salvation).
My point in all of this is that I find that the person of Mary the mother of Christ most likely would have abhorred the things of her time, gone to the temple for worship despite the evil that dwelled their, desired strongly to serve God with everything that she had, and lastly loved God more than most anyone else. Despite these propositions that I make, I would point out that I do not believe that Christ was born to Mary because of her works. Overall, the fact Mary would have loved God as much as she did and loved Jesus because he was her son thus the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ would have devastated her perhaps more than any other person that existed.
If Mary was so influenced by the birth of Christ, the death of Christ, then the resurrection of Jesus Christ would have become perhaps a more joyous event for her than anyone else. If what I say is a true speculation, then Mary would have been the greatest barer of the gospel more so than everyone else that existed because the gospel originated from her very womb as God emerged from it in order to accomplish his works. Overall, I think that we should all pattern ourselves after the model of Mary as we give birth to Jesus into the world and as Jesus is born into us, and thus as a result we project the gospel into the world as the world tries desperately to destroy the gospel that we proclaim and thus crucify our lord and savior.
The seed of God thus matures in some people to produce a ‘full fledged Jesus’, but in other people the new nature never emerges because it never develops, no one ever crucifies their Christ, and the person is never risen to heavenly places to be in the direct presence of God. The seed and the ‘Jesus’ in us is not something that we make, but it is something that God plants into us as he imputes his righteousness. One could thus say that those that Christ never develops in are those that never had the righteousness of Christ imputed into them, and they would be like those that are ever hearing but never understanding because even through they may contain the very words of God in language form they do not contain the Word of God (Jesus Christ). Overall, the result is that our bodies are temples, but as we know from ancient Greece many temples existed that involved the worship of false gods that involved so much wealth that almost all of the wealth of the land went into the temple like in the case of the Pyramids.
I believe that the wealth of the temple in Jerusalem was vary modest in comparison to the wealth of the nation, and this was especially true of the second temple. When we think of your bodies as being temples of God, then we should be somewhat modest in caring for those temples. We should also take in mind that the ark could dwell in a tent without any objections from God as like a temple in itself. Overall, if you read the history of the dynasty of Herod, then you will find that a huge effort went into the glorification of the temple and the prophets speak against this work prior to it happening.
I have found that more and more ministry today dwells upon glorifying a church building when it is hardly ever used except for perhaps a hour or two a week, and these same ministries dwell more and more upon encouraging the glorification of the physical bodies of the members as the members also see this as the purpose for attending church. I have to wonder what place Jesus has in any of this, but on the other hand if people go to church three times a day like in some catholic churches, then do those people become any more loving of God as a result. Overall, I knew a man that was very devout that would have gone to church three times a day if it was open for him to do so, and the man was very poor and miserly despite the fact that he made much money (I would have to wonder if the man received anything good in his life from his lifestyle since his perceived righteousness alienated him from others to such an extant that I would have to wonder how much service that he was able to do).
The most effective person that I knew for performing intercession took everyone no matter what position that they had been in during their life and he become their servant for the sake of them entering into good relations with the lord. The man was so good at this and was so prayerful that he was able to not have even one person against him, and he had a very modest lifestyle without much concern for material wealth. In his view everything related to Christ, and if something did not relate to the Christ then he would find a way that it would relate to Christ. Having said that the man was able to for example carefully investigate non canonical writings and show how they had relationships with the scripture and he could then use the differences between the canonical and non canonical writing as a opportunity for evangelism.
My specific point in mentioning non canonical writing is that I wanted to demonstrate just one case of how many Christian groups found a necessity for Mary to have her youth at the temple in some way instead of living a ordinary life of a child that would play with toys for example. The reason why this would be necessary is because people wanted to explain how Mary was special to God through her devotion, and some stories I believe go so far as to indicate that Mary had both her parents die and that she was raised at the temple until she got to the age that the person in charge could give her away to Joseph without any guilt. Overall, thus some would believe that Mary was so devoted to God that she pledged to be a virgin all of her life, and as a result of her devotion she would conceive Jesus (this has problem because Mary would produce other children as well that would be brothers of Jesus, and not only that but also the idea of the devotion of Mary to separate from society instead of interceding for it would be very questionable).
Thank you,
Mathew Enoch Mount
mmo...@essex1.com
From : ON EARTH Ministries[mailto:onearth.ministr...@gmail.com]
Sent : 12/29/2009 2:13:13 PM
To : jesus-th...@googlegroups.com
Cc :
Subject : RE: Re: GOD GOES NATIVE #4
Larry Roy Woodsmall §§§§ Freed from Monasticism
Evan L. Hale §§§§§§§§§§§ Thankful for Whiskey
Adam Colbert §§§§§§§§§§ Jesus look alike
Mathew Enoch Mount §§§§ Conservative
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ON EARTH Ministries
Mathew Enoch Mount
I am sorry Larry that my mind sort of wonders on all kinds of related
things when I write.
Thank you,
Mathew Enoch Mount
mmo...@essex1.com
On Dec 30, 2:22 pm, ON EARTH Ministries
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