Proverbs 18:1
Adam Colbert
example of this is Proverbs 18:2: "A fool finds no pleasure in
understanding but delights in airing his own opinions". the other day,
however, i happened to open up the Bible to Proverbs 18:1. to say the
least, it caught me off guard and i still have yet to really
understand it. "An unfriendly man pursues selfish ends; he defies all
sound judgment" (NIV). perhaps a word study would do much good, but
allow me to look at this at face value according to the NIV Bible.
first of all, "an unfriendly man pursues selfish ends". right off the
bat it equates unfriendliness with selfishness. that seems a bit of a
jump, though not at all far fetched. unfriendly people are often
selfish, we know that from experience, but it nonetheless connects two
rather different adjectives.
but then the second half of Proverbs 18:1 says "he defies all sound
judgment". this is where it gets tricky (for me) to really put
everything together. there's really something rather mystical about
this Proverb in that it connects selfishness to be the opposite of ALL
sound judgment. again, perhaps it's the NIV translation which makes
this verse difficult, i don't know. perhaps if anyone regularly uses
KJV, NKJV, NRSV, or another version of the Bible then you could put
some input here. let me put the verse another way. friendliness = all
sound judgment. unfriendliness = COMPLETE mis-judgment. anyone else
see the large "gap" here??
let's imagine this verse "in action". suppose we're walking down the
street and we happen to see a passer-by who is obviously very
unfriendly to whoever's walking with him. or suppose we're in a public
place and a man is overtly being greedy and selfish over some matter
of sorts. and then as we keep walking, now out of his ear shot, i
happen to say to you "that man defies all sound judgment". would you
have any clue as to what i was talking about? well, that's exactly
what the Bible says, and i would like everyone who reads this to think
and even meditate on this verse because i really get that there is
something deep in this verse but i've yet to put it together.
Kevin Megill
He *who separates himself* seeks his own desire
And quarrels against all sound wisdom.
I take the phrase "he who separates himself" to refer not just to a man
who is unfriendly but to one who has an independent spirit, who sees
little value in pursuing unity with others. That he "seeks his own
desire" explains why he doesn't pursue unity -- it's too inconvenient to
have to defer to others' ways of doing things. That he "quarrels against
all sound wisdom" means that we need one another far more than we
realize. It's sort of like the other Proverbs that say "in the abundance
of counselors there is victory" and "iron sharpens iron, so one man
sharpens another". When we pretend we can function well without the input
and support and reproof of others around us, we quarrel against all good
judgment.
Rom 12:3, in context, makes the same point -- to think more highly of
ourselves than we ought to think is to think of ourselves as
independently capable of all sorts of things that God has designed us to
get only from other believers in the body of Christ. We need each other,
and are foolish when we think otherwise.
Kevin Megill
iowa...@gmail.com
Mathew Enoch Mount
Although years ago I was foolish and did stupid things that I repent
of, I must agree that proverbs 18:1 is perhaps one of the most
important proverbs of the scripture as is seen in the NASB
translation. If I would have understood this proverb a decade earlier
I would not have fled from the work that God had called me to do, and
thus cause a decade of disappointment. In my younger years for twenty
years I attended a Church that was well marked in the community as not
being Christian and I attended faithfully every Sunday, but when I
came to faith through the work of the Holy Ghost and Kevin Megill many
so called conservative Christian groups spoke condemnations against me
because I attended such a church and proclaimed to be a Christian. As
a result of the increasing discomfort I felt from such groups and from
the increasing agony that I felt from attending my own church from
child hood that slandered God by saying things such as, "Jesus was not
God", "the scripture is full of errors", "salvation is from works",
and "you can loose your salvation very easily", I thus stopped
attending the congregation and for a few years stopped attending any
church (I did this partly because other churches opposed me and would
not accept me just because of the church that I attended). Overall,
the church that I attended for twenty years had even made indications
to have me ordained into ministry of the church because I spoke out
against the corrupt teachings that came from the pulpit and because I
educated some of the clergy by me having in house visits and
explaining the scripture over multiple hour settings after college.
When I came to faith, hearing the message of the church that I
attended for twenty years enraged me so much because I had been
deceived for such a long period of time and because many of us had
been deceived for as many as four generations that whenever people
would slander God at the pulpit I felt like taking the largest family
bible that man had made and slamming it into the minister’s skull time
and time again until they, "KNEW the LORD." As a result during
testimony time at church I opened my bible, and read out of the
profits the condemnations given to unfaithful Israel in tremendous
hostility, and what I said in the spirit was far more impacting than
anything that I could have ever done in the flesh. Overall, this
persisted for about a year or more, and whenever I would speak people
would be paralyzed with fear (I now realize the importance of the
gospel as being the good news).
The point of Proverbs 18:1 is that if we find something to be wrong,
then we should make intercession and make things right and that we
should not give up until we are driven out. This is the process that
occurred with the early church in Jerusalem and it is the process that
occurred in Egypt when Pharaoh woke Moses in the middle of the night
and said, "get out." (We should be a lot more loving than I was)
Overall, I have thus learned that any voice that says, "go separate
yourself from your brothers as a result of their sin" is the voice of
a demon.
Everything that causes division in the body of Christ will be brought
to damnation because it is against the very words of the prayer of
Jesus Christ that says, "make them one just as you and I are one."
Every denominational doctrine that man has made up as a delusion of
his own mind in rebellion to the body of Christ will parish as
worthless idols smashed with the iron scepter. Then the New Jerusalem
will emerge as a virgin bride in her glory, a kingdom of priests, whom
are eternally united to the Lamb of God.
When Saint Paul found divisions in the church as some would follow one
teacher and another would follow another teacher in opposition, he was
glad that he never baptized any of them because of how much of an
abomination that had been to him. The following is thus said, "I
appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that
all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions
among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.
My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there
are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, "I
follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas";
still another, "I follow Christ." Is Christ divided? Was Paul
crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? I am
thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. (Yes, I also
baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if
I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but
to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of
Christ be emptied of its power." 1 Corinthians 1:10-17 (NIV) Overall,
the case is clear that he who separates himself seeks his own desire
and quarrels against all sound wisdom, and this is why everyone whom
protests against God’s government seeks his own desire and quarrels
against all sound wisdom. NASB
"NASB Proverbs 18:1 reads this way:
He *who separates himself* seeks his own desire
And quarrels against all sound wisdom." - Kevin Megill
Thank you,
Mathew Enoch Mount
mmo...@essex1.com
Adam Colbert
digging up a post over two years old? lol. i saw my name as the
original poster, and i was like "i don't remember posting this!". of
course, now i do remember.
Adam Colbert
first of all, i get what you're saying about not separating ourselves
from others because of their sins. but i must ask, and this is VERY
important, would you say - would scripture say - that this distinction
is made apart from those who are not saved? for instance, although we
shouldn't look on fellow brethren in Christ and say/think "you have
committed such and such sins, therefore i will have nothing to do with
you," we should also be wary of commonly associating with "the wrong
crowd" so to speak. i just think that there is both healthy and
unhealthy separation, and this scripture verse speaks of the latter.
as for the former.......yes, it is true that one must get their boots
muddy if they are entering the mission field (i.e. going amongst
unbelievers to preach the message), but at the same time, the "crew"
you hang out with shouldn't be completely counterproductive to
spiritual growth. get what i'm saying? how might you say scripture
addresses this?
Mathew Enoch Mount
1) Their are several ways to access our records of discussions on
Jesus on the Web. The most efficient way is to go to our Web Address
http://groups.google.com/group/jesus-the-christ?hl=en then click on
"View more" by the word discussions. Next click on "View by Topic
List", and look at the topics and then continue clicking on the
"Older" link until you arrive at the topic you would like to view.
2) You can also search the web for our posts (this is very limited),
or you can use the "Search this group" feature (this is a little less
limited but still limited).
3) You can also go to the box titled Group info, and click on "more
group info." From this screen you see a bunch of numbers in a chart
of months and years, and you can click on any of those numbers to see
all the posts for that month.
4) You can also go to the box titled Group info, and click on "more
group info." Then click on a name under the "top poster" category
then you can see the recent activity and you can see some of the posts
sorted by month and year that the person made.
Overall, method number one will give you access to all of the posts to
my knowledge as well as method three to some extent, but method two
and four will usually only give you what is popular or relevant.
Also Adam if you would like to reply to a very old conversation from
years ago and if Google does not give you a "Reply" option but instead
only uses "Reply to author", then just Forward the discussion to our
news group mail address and in the subject line take out the "FW:
symbol." Such a process will reactive the discussion bring it to the
top of our home page.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mathew Enoch Mount
I understand what you are saying Adam, and I will explain with a
answer that is perhaps one of the most unpopular although it is the
most truthful. Scripture shows that at times such as at the baptism
of Jesus and at the Transfiguration light shined from Jesus Christ
that everyone could see, but what is said about the parables is that
"by seeing they do not see and by hearing they do not hear." The
point is that we should like Jesus learn how to restrict and unveil
the light such that we maximize spiritual fruit (this is sort of a
work of our hands approach that we take until the Holy Ghost does this
for us).
When the Holy Ghost takes lead in our life, he will only give us what
is appropriate to say (thus God does the restricting and unveiling for
us). If you find yourself in the wrong crowd so to speak, then it is
time for Jesus to clear the temple and for the word of God to come out
of our mouth to smash some idols. When this happens Adam, then soon
enough people may crucify you, and the gospel will be made real in
your flesh so that everyone whom sees may believe (this may not be a
physical crucifixion or a physical smashing of idols).
When you are crucified or driven out of Egypt, then that is when God
raises you from the wrong crowed to be in heavenly places.
Unfortunately with the laws in this land, what I am talking about is a
practice that has a very high price because our nation requires that
believers and unbelievers be yoked together in the work place under
one so called "In God we trust" dollar that is paid out to both the
believer and the unbeliever for their ‘harmony’ of labor. Overall,
any institution that will yoke a unbeliever with a believer to work
together to build the pyramids of Egypt for its gods while paying with
the note of "in God we trust" is in fact pinning the Christian into
crucifixion, and that is why I do not believe in the separation of
church and state.
Adam Colbert
finding posts, but each approach has its own particular set of
advantages (and disadvantages).
but you still didn't answer my question: HOW did YOU find the post of
mine which was over two years old? that's all.
Adam Colbert
must realize that this pertains to when the place/atmosphere itself is
being tainted by those within it. what i was referring to was more
along the lines of Sodom and Gomorrah..........sometimes things are
gonna come crashing down, and it's best to get out while you still
can. that's closer to the "healthy separation" that i was talking
about. i suppose it would've been better had i thought of Sodom and
Gomorrah at the time of posting.
mmo...@essex1.com
What I did is I went through our member lists by clicking on "Members", and
then I clicked on a member name that has posted content. From that screen I
clicked on either a subject written to under recent activity or I clicked on a
month of member activity under Posted activity. By this process you can even
see what members have written in other news groups, and I did this to see if
there was any reason why we frightened off people whom do not post very often
(I mean that sometimes we might frighten people off whom are new to posting
for stupid reasons). I then noticed our discussion, and I decided to reply to
it because I suddenly had something to say.
Also note that the ordered list can go back all the way to the beginning if
you keep pressing the link marked "Older."
------- Original Message -------
From : Adam Colbert[mailto:adamc...@hotmail.com]
Sent : 11/19/2009 6:55:54 PM
To : jesus-th...@googlegroups.com
Cc :
Subject : RE: Re: Proverbs 18:1
Mathew Enoch Mount
Their is only one problem with your Sodom and Gomorra example of
fleeing before everything is destroyed. In Genesis 13 Abraham and Lot
separate causing Lot to live among Sodom and Gomorra, in Genesis 14
Lot got is carried away with a bunch of stuff from Sodom as a result
of men taking plunder from war. In Genesis 14 what also happened is
that Abraham entered the world war to rescue lot and won then he was
given communion and blessed by the King of what is now Jerusalem (lot
returned to Sodom and Gomorra). Genesis 15-18 then tells about God’s
covenant with Abraham (In chapter 18 Abraham pleaded for Sodom among
the three visitors whom told of Sara having a son and whom God spoke
through). Overall, it is only then in Genesis 19 that two angels
appear in Sodom and Gomorra as they rescue lot.
If God rescued lot from Sodom and Gomorra even though he was not
really a part of the covenant with Abraham and Isaac, then how much
more will God rescue you from Sodom and Gomorra if you continue to do
what it right? The point in talking about this story is that if
Abraham entered the world war to rescue lot, then why would Christ not
enter the war of heaven to rescue those whom are his regardless of the
covenant with Isaac? Christ did enter that war, and he won with the
cross, but the full effects have not yet been realized and the
apostles are on the boat while it is sinking and Christ will come,
rebuke the storm, and say so to speak "have you no faith."