Let us welcome our new member Clea to Jesus on the Web (may she post
many articles as she is accomplished in theology). After talking with
Clea, I find that one of the large concerns that has been raised is
how spit relates to forgiveness in the scripture. Although I had
thought that spit related to forgiveness directly from Genesis, I was
wrong; moreover, I find that the administration of spit is a rather
complicated matter in scripture. Furthermore I bring this matter into
question because I had been contemplating the theological value of
having a sneeze guard over food preparation; moreover, the question
that is raised thus is what does spit mean theologically and what does
a sneeze guard testify concerning it.
In the Ancient Hebrew language the term Ruach Ha-Kodesh is used to
refer to the spirit of God (Holy Ghost) as like the breath of God or
the wind, and thus an ill wind is an evil spirit for example. The
fact thus that God gathered some clay and then breathed into it means
that he imparted his spirit into man in creation to animate him, and
this happened as God made man in his own image and likeness. Thus
consider the following text, "As he went along, he saw a man blind
from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or
his parents, that he was born blind?" "Neither this man nor his
parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of
God might be displayed in his life. As long as it is day, we must do
the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work.
While I am in the world, I am the light of the world." Having said
this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it
on the man's eyes. "Go," he told him, "wash in the Pool of
Siloam" (this word means Sent). So the man went and washed, and came
home seeing." John 9:1-7 (NIV) Notice that Christ did not just take
dirt and breath on it and then apply it to the man’s face; moreover,
my case it that this example demonstrated a very complicated but clear
example of how the light rebuked the darkness by way of God working
with his hands to form a new set of eyes.
In Kabbalistic Jewish theology God has ten invisible attributes (these
are the ten fingers of God), and these ten invisible attributes are
connected by thirty-two paths just as we have thirty-two teeth. In
the case of Jesus whom is in the first chapter of John he is the word
made flesh and the light, and notice that he from his mouth (the same
place that the breath comes out of or spirit) spat into some dirt into
his hands and then put that dirt on the man’s eyes. The man went to
the pool of Siloam meaning sent and he washed or submersed his eyes in
water (baptizing them in water), and as soon as this man baptized his
eyes in water he could see and thus was sent out to tell the good news
about Jesus Christ.
Besides the passage showing us that Christ has a divine nature the
question that emerges is, "What does such a passage tell us about the
baptism of the Holy Ghost; moreover, is this a foreshadow of it"? If
you can remember in the book of Acts Pentecost happened with the sound
like the blowing of a violent wind from heaven and then tongues of
fire came down on the people. Acts 2:1-3 Just this in itself shows us
that the baptism by fire not only is performed by the breath of God
but also by the tongue of God that carries his spit onto us.
Consider the following text, "I know your deeds, that you are neither
cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because
you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my
mouth. You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a
thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor,
blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the
fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can
cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you
can see. Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest,
and repent. Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears
my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he
with me." Revelation 3:15-20 (NIV) We learn in this passage that if
we are in Christ then in a since we are in his mouth submerged in his
spit, and not only that but the passage gives direct reference to the
blind and being refined in the fire (like the tongues of fire as like
the baptism by fire).
Let us consider this idea of being submerged in the spit of God
carefully as it relates to the circumcision of the heart and our
clothing in robes of righteousness. In Genesis 3:7 Adam and Eve sewed
fig leaves together, but we are told in Genesis 3:21 (NIV) the
following, "The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife
and clothed them." The point is that first Adam and Eve clothed
themselves, then God sacrificed an animal foreshadowing the sacrifice
of Christ on the cross, and he then clothed them.
In other words just as their is a baptism by water and then their is a
baptism by the Holy Ghost one is done by us doing a work of God, and
then God does the other by himself. For example Ephesians 6:10-20
talks about us putting on the armor of God whereas when Jesus sent out
the 72 he told them that he was sending them out ahead of him and that
nothing would harm them and that they would tread on scorpions;
moreover, this shows us that they had been clothed with that power
from God Luke 10:19. Overall, this tells us a lot about how God works
that first he has us wash with the water before he washes over us with
the fire.
Regarding how the baptism of the Holy Ghost relates to the
circumcision of the heart we must think about it in terms of the law
being written on our hearts. The law with its ten commandments or
sayings was like a guard over our ‘ten spiritual fingers’ so to speak,
and the Islamic nations today will often cut off fingers as a result
of various sins. We however through grace do not have our fingers cut
off when we sin, but the circumcision of the heart writes the law on
our heart thus guarding our interaction with the world like the 10
commandments would protect the potter’s hands so that he need be
concerned with getting cut when working the clay so to speak.
Consider the following text, "And he said, "These are they who have
come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and
made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, "they are before
the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he
who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them." Revelation
7:15 (NIV) In this passage people themselves wash their robes in the
blood of the lamb, but before the disciples could leave Jerusalem
(after Christ was crucified) they had to be clothed with power from on
High. The point is that we wash ourselves with the blood of the lamb,
but only when we are part of the body of Christ does the blood of
Christ pump throughout the entire body and as a result we put on the
fig leaves so to speak and then God gives us the garments made of
skin. As a result God must spit on us first, before he puts us into
his mouth to be completely submerged in his saliva.
Consider the following text regarding Noah’s ark, Genesis 6:14 (NIV)
"coat the inside and outside of the ark with pitch" as it was with the
basket of Moses Exodus 2:3. My understanding is that the term pitch
is used to refer to atonement and the 40 days and 40 nights at sea are
a foreshadow of the 40 days and 40 nights that Christ was tempted by
Satan. In a since being on the water was like being in God’s mouth
submerged in saliva (the baptism), but yet at the same time being
clothed so to speak in atonement. More to the point is that if you
can remember the baptism of Moses 1 Corinthians 10:2 the Israelites
when under the sea and had been brought to a new life in Moses to be a
kingdom of priests whereas the Egyptians died in the waters like those
of Noah’s day when the flood came.
Thus when we go under the waters of baptism and get placed into the
tomb of Christ with death all around us to be risen with the Lord if
we do it without proper ‘clothing’ we are like the man that attended
the wedding supper of the lamb whom was not dressed in proper wedding
garments and was thrown out. In that story specifically the garments
had been supplied by the marriage party and the man just put the
garments aside and went in as he was. Consider the following text at
it instructs the disciples to stay in the city (Jerusalem) until they
are clothed with power on high, "Then he opened their minds so they
could understand the Scriptures. He told them, "This is what is
written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third
day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his
name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of
these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but
stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on
high."" Luke 24:45-49 (NIV) In other words Christ prepared the
disciples with their minds being opened by his words unlocking the
scripture and the word of God was like making the blind man see by the
spit, but not until the tongues of fire came down did the disciples
get clothed with power on high.
Consider the following text, "When the cloud lifted from above the
Tent, there stood Miriam—leprous, like snow. Aaron turned toward her
and saw that she had leprosy; and he said to Moses, "Please, my lord,
do not hold against us the sin we have so foolishly committed. Do not
let her be like a stillborn infant coming from its mother's womb with
its flesh half eaten away." So Moses cried out to the LORD, "O God,
please heal her!" The LORD replied to
...
Bring her on, its been a while since I beat up on a girl. I guess you could
say I'm salivating. I know that Jesus used spit to heal eyes in scripture
and that there may have been some basis for it.
I've never seen a healer use spit. Of course, then again - other than what
was his name on TV - Ernest Angsley? I haven't seen too many healers
period.
I should mention that I am a minority in my neighborhood, and some guys tend
to spit when they see me coming.
I do have a two year old son - and we go to sandbox daily. We've found that
if the sand is dry then it doesn't hold together. Given his thoughts on
hand washing and the latrine, this is probably the real reason why Jesus
used spit.
Know the Lord,
Pete
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Mathew Enoch Mount <mmo...@essex1.com>wrote:
> Let us welcome our new member Clea to Jesus on the Web (may she post
> many articles as she is accomplished in theology). After talking with
> Clea, I find that one of the large concerns that has been raised is
> how spit relates to forgiveness in the scripture. Although I had
> thought that spit related to forgiveness directly from Genesis, I was
> wrong; moreover, I find that the administration of spit is a rather
> complicated matter in scripture. Furthermore I bring this matter into
> question because I had been contemplating the theological value of
> having a sneeze guard over food preparation; moreover, the question
> that is raised thus is what does spit mean theologically and what does
> a sneeze guard testify concerning it.
> In the Ancient Hebrew language the term Ruach Ha-Kodesh is used to
> refer to the spirit of God (Holy Ghost) as like the breath of God or
> the wind, and thus an ill wind is an evil spirit for example. The
> fact thus that God gathered some clay and then breathed into it means
> that he imparted his spirit into man in creation to animate him, and
> this happened as God made man in his own image and likeness. Thus
> consider the following text, "As he went along, he saw a man blind
> from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or
> his parents, that he was born blind?" "Neither this man nor his
> parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of
> God might be displayed in his life. As long as it is day, we must do
> the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work.
> While I am in the world, I am the light of the world." Having said
> this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it
> on the man's eyes. "Go," he told him, "wash in the Pool of
> Siloam" (this word means Sent). So the man went and washed, and came
> home seeing." John 9:1-7 (NIV) Notice that Christ did not just take
> dirt and breath on it and then apply it to the man’s face; moreover,
> my case it that this example demonstrated a very complicated but clear
> example of how the light rebuked the darkness by way of God working
> with his hands to form a new set of eyes.
> In Kabbalistic Jewish theology God has ten invisible attributes (these
> are the ten fingers of God), and these ten invisible attributes are
> connected by thirty-two paths just as we have thirty-two teeth. In
> the case of Jesus whom is in the first chapter of John he is the word
> made flesh and the light, and notice that he from his mouth (the same
> place that the breath comes out of or spirit) spat into some dirt into
> his hands and then put that dirt on the man’s eyes. The man went to
> the pool of Siloam meaning sent and he washed or submersed his eyes in
> water (baptizing them in water), and as soon as this man baptized his
> eyes in water he could see and thus was sent out to tell the good news
> about Jesus Christ.
> Besides the passage showing us that Christ has a divine nature the
> question that emerges is, "What does such a passage tell us about the
> baptism of the Holy Ghost; moreover, is this a foreshadow of it"? If
> you can remember in the book of Acts Pentecost happened with the sound
> like the blowing of a violent wind from heaven and then tongues of
> fire came down on the people. Acts 2:1-3 Just this in itself shows us
> that the baptism by fire not only is performed by the breath of God
> but also by the tongue of God that carries his spit onto us.
> Consider the following text, "I know your deeds, that you are neither
> cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because
> you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my
> mouth. You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a
> thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor,
> blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the
> fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can
> cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you
> can see. Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest,
> and repent. Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears
> my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he
> with me." Revelation 3:15-20 (NIV) We learn in this passage that if
> we are in Christ then in a since we are in his mouth submerged in his
> spit, and not only that but the passage gives direct reference to the
> blind and being refined in the fire (like the tongues of fire as like
> the baptism by fire).
> Let us consider this idea of being submerged in the spit of God
> carefully as it relates to the circumcision of the heart and our
> clothing in robes of righteousness. In Genesis 3:7 Adam and Eve sewed
> fig leaves together, but we are told in Genesis 3:21 (NIV) the
> following, "The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife
> and clothed them." The point is that first Adam and Eve clothed
> themselves, then God sacrificed an animal foreshadowing the sacrifice
> of Christ on the cross, and he then clothed them.
> In other words just as their is a baptism by water and then their is a
> baptism by the Holy Ghost one is done by us doing a work of God, and
> then God does the other by himself. For example Ephesians 6:10-20
> talks about us putting on the armor of God whereas when Jesus sent out
> the 72 he told them that he was sending them out ahead of him and that
> nothing would harm them and that they would tread on scorpions;
> moreover, this shows us that they had been clothed with that power
> from God Luke 10:19. Overall, this tells us a lot about how God works
> that first he has us wash with the water before he washes over us with
> the fire.
> Regarding how the baptism of the Holy Ghost relates to the
> circumcision of the heart we must think about it in terms of the law
> being written on our hearts. The law with its ten commandments or
> sayings was like a guard over our ‘ten spiritual fingers’ so to speak,
> and the Islamic nations today will often cut off fingers as a result
> of various sins. We however through grace do not have our fingers cut
> off when we sin, but the circumcision of the heart writes the law on
> our heart thus guarding our interaction with the world like the 10
> commandments would protect the potter’s hands so that he need be
> concerned with getting cut when working the clay so to speak.
> Consider the following text, "And he said, "These are they who have
> come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and
> made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, "they are before
> the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he
> who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them." Revelation
> 7:15 (NIV) In this passage people themselves wash their robes in the
> blood of the lamb, but before the disciples could leave Jerusalem
> (after Christ was crucified) they had to be clothed with power from on
> High. The point is that we wash ourselves with the blood of the lamb,
> but only when we are part of the body of Christ does the blood of
> Christ pump throughout the entire body and as a result we put on the
> fig leaves so to speak and then God gives us the garments made of
> skin. As a result God must spit on us first, before he puts us into
> his mouth to be completely submerged in his saliva.
> Consider the following text regarding Noah’s ark, Genesis 6:14 (NIV)
> "coat the inside and outside of the ark with pitch" as it was with the
> basket of Moses Exodus 2:3. My understanding is that the term pitch
> is used to refer to atonement and the 40 days and 40 nights at sea are
> a foreshadow of the 40 days and 40 nights that Christ was tempted by
> Satan. In a since being on the water was like being in God’s mouth
> submerged in saliva (the baptism), but yet at the same time being
> clothed so to speak in atonement. More to the point is that if you
> can remember the baptism of Moses 1 Corinthians 10:2 the Israelites
> when under the sea and had been brought to a new life in Moses to be a
> kingdom of priests whereas the Egyptians died in the waters like those
> of Noah’s day when the flood came.
> Thus when we go under the waters of baptism and get placed into the
> tomb of Christ with death all around us to be risen with the Lord if
> we do it without proper ‘clothing’ we are like the man that attended
> the wedding supper of the lamb whom was not dressed in proper wedding
> garments and was thrown out. In that story specifically the garments
> had been supplied by the marriage party and the man just put the
> garments aside and went in as he was. Consider the following text at
> it instructs the disciples to stay in the city (Jerusalem) until they
> are clothed with power on high, "Then he opened their minds so they
> could understand the Scriptures. He told them, "This is what is
Peter you may find that this woman Clea is so powerful in truth that
when you see her sword flashing back and forth at you your evil
spirits may flee as a result of the memory of God’s angles having
driven them out of the garden of Eden and standing in guard of the
tree of life. Genesis 3:24 I think that what you will find Peter is
that this woman is clothed with power from on High, and only when your
robes have been washed in the blood of the lamb will you be able to
eat from the tree of life and enter the gates of the city. Revelation
22:14 & Revelation 7:15 Think about it Peter, when those words come
forth, how can the darkness hold its ground when the light shines upon
it. John 1.
> Bring her on, its been a while since I beat up on a girl. I guess you could
> say I'm salivating. I know that Jesus used spit to heal eyes in scripture
> and that there may have been some basis for it.
> I've never seen a healer use spit. Of course, then again - other than what
> was his name on TV - Ernest Angsley? I haven't seen too many healers
> period.
> I should mention that I am a minority in my neighborhood, and some guys tend
> to spit when they see me coming.
> I do have a two year old son - and we go to sandbox daily. We've found that
> if the sand is dry then it doesn't hold together. Given his thoughts on
> hand washing and the latrine, this is probably the real reason why Jesus
> used spit.
> Know the Lord,
Are you kidding? I got 100 bucks that say, she hasn't been through half the
crap I've been through. I've been to hell, I know they're scared of me down
there.
Know the Lord,
Pete
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Mathew Enoch Mount <mmo...@essex1.com>wrote:
> Peter you may find that this woman Clea is so powerful in truth that
> when you see her sword flashing back and forth at you your evil
> spirits may flee as a result of the memory of God’s angles having
> driven them out of the garden of Eden and standing in guard of the
> tree of life. Genesis 3:24 I think that what you will find Peter is
> that this woman is clothed with power from on High, and only when your
> robes have been washed in the blood of the lamb will you be able to
> eat from the tree of life and enter the gates of the city. Revelation
> 22:14 & Revelation 7:15 Think about it Peter, when those words come
> forth, how can the darkness hold its ground when the light shines upon
> it. John 1.
> On Nov 2, 1:06 pm, Peter VanGee <petervan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all:
> > Bring her on, its been a while since I beat up on a girl. I guess you
> could
> > say I'm salivating. I know that Jesus used spit to heal eyes in
> scripture
> > and that there may have been some basis for it.
> > I've never seen a healer use spit. Of course, then again - other than
> what
> > was his name on TV - Ernest Angsley? I haven't seen too many healers
> > period.
> > I should mention that I am a minority in my neighborhood, and some guys
> tend
> > to spit when they see me coming.
> > I do have a two year old son - and we go to sandbox daily. We've found
> that
> > if the sand is dry then it doesn't hold together. Given his thoughts on
> > hand washing and the latrine, this is probably the real reason why Jesus
> > used spit.
> > Know the Lord,
You might be correct Peter in saying that those in hell are afraid of
you, but that proves nothing because without the blood of the lamb you
are nothing more than their leader by force like their father.
> Are you kidding? I got 100 bucks that say, she hasn't been through half the
> crap I've been through. I've been to hell, I know they're scared of me down
> there.
"I have told you this so that you might have peace in me. In the world you
will have trouble, but take courage, I have conquered the world." Jn 16.33
From what I understand, Jesus conquered the world and therefore sin and
death during the 40 days he spent in the desert. That's why he could
forgive sins. Who needs blood atonement...i says the fly. Buzz along now.
Know the Lord,
Pete
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Mathew Enoch Mount <mmo...@essex1.com>wrote:
> You might be correct Peter in saying that those in hell are afraid of
> you, but that proves nothing because without the blood of the lamb you
> are nothing more than their leader by force like their father.
> On Nov 2, 5:20 pm, Peter VanGee <petervan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Matt:
> > Are you kidding? I got 100 bucks that say, she hasn't been through half
> the
> > crap I've been through. I've been to hell, I know they're scared of me
> down
> > there.
"All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names
have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that
was slain from the creation of the world." Revelation 13:8 (NIV)
"Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness" Hebrews 9:22
(NIV) The question is has anyone yet been saved without the blood of
the lamb? No and their never will be. If God had not made sacrifice
for Adam and Eve and the people of Nineveh, then how could they have
been saved?
> "I have told you this so that you might have peace in me. In the world you
> will have trouble, but take courage, I have conquered the world." Jn 16.33
> From what I understand, Jesus conquered the world and therefore sin and
> death during the 40 days he spent in the desert. That's why he could
> forgive sins. Who needs blood atonement...i says the fly. Buzz along now.
Thanks for explaining your position on the spit issue so fully,
Matthew, it has given me a good deal of... food for thought.
While I am flattered by your kind invitation and complimentary
estimation of my abilities, I am afraid that I cannot gracefully
accept either one. My study of theological matters has hardly been
systematic, and it would be ridiculous for me to attempt to take the
field with scholars such as yourselves.
What David learned with the killing of Goliath is that he threw the
stone, and God killed Goliath with that stone. Did David kill
Goliath? Yes he did, but without the power of God David would have
been nothing. My point in saying this is that true power does not
rest in man and his abilities but it instead it only rests in God.
When I was a lot younger in grade school, their was a large family at
church that had many children whom almost all of received almost
straight A grades. The most powerful one of them received straight
A’s all the time, and I on the other hand failed kindergarten and it
was only latter in school that I started getting good grades. One day
a woman pointed to the greatest student in the rival family and she
said, "Chad will go far, but Mathew will go much farther."
Everyone looked at the woman with astonishment especially since she
kept repeating the same truth time and time again that day. This
truth sounded like the craziest thing that a person could possibly
say, but because the message appeared so crazy it was the type of
message that could only come from God because not even the craziest
person would say such a thing in their craziness (my parents did not
expect that I would even finish High School and I got my first bible
given to me by the pastor of the church when I was eight years old
because my parents did not see any purpose in me having a bible of my
own). (Just to note I in fact never really read it because of the
translation, and it was only when I attended college that I bought my
first real bible and began reading it). Overall, today I have six
degrees, am a ordained priest, and have started one of the largest
theological news groups in the world that contains both students of
philosophy and ministers of almost every major denomination that
exists in the United States. (We also have members in India, the
Middle East, parts of Europe, and other such places that become active
from time to time).
Do not be doubtful of the power of God, but also do not be pride-full
of what God is making you into. I thus pray that God pours his spirit
onto you in such abundance that you can whisper just a word of wisdom
and topple even the greatest Tower of Babble like the wind topples a
tower of playing cards. Amen.
> Thanks for explaining your position on the spit issue so fully,
> Matthew, it has given me a good deal of... food for thought.
> While I am flattered by your kind invitation and complimentary
> estimation of my abilities, I am afraid that I cannot gracefully
> accept either one. My study of theological matters has hardly been
> systematic, and it would be ridiculous for me to attempt to take the
> field with scholars such as yourselves.
On Nov 2, 1:06 pm, Peter VanGee <petervan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all:
> Bring her on, its been a while since I beat up on a girl. I guess you could
> say I'm salivating.
seriously?? i mean, seriously???????????
"If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also."
Luke 6:29 (NIV)
i don't believe "turning the other cheek" counts when you're
anticipating throwing the first punch before someone has even met you,
let alone before they have spoken or even have been given the chance
to offer you a slice of heavenly bread to eat.
Seriously. I'll assume you're being sarcastic but since you ask: The last
time I beat up a girl, I was twelve years old. My cousin Misty - she is 7
years older than me. My parents took care of her, so she is like a sister
to me. She was kind of tough, and she got the better of me til I was 12.
After that last fight, we never fought again.
What is troubling me? Seriously, I guess you could say its saliva. I don't
know, maybe there is some basis in the old testament. You have to remember
the old testament is a shadow of things to come. Matt's biggest weakness is
that he knows scripture too well, but I'm not always sure he understands
it. He goes off willy-nilly and gushers a torrent. Someone has to keep him
in line. Faith is what healed people...some of the people in Jesus' own
neighborhood were not healed because they lacked faith. Saliva?
Remember 'The flesh is of no avail.' You might as well add the eye of a
newt and the ear of a bat. This is magic he's talking about.
Know the Lord,
Pete
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 3:27 AM, Adam Colbert <adamcolb...@hotmail.com>wrote:
> On Nov 2, 1:06 pm, Peter VanGee <petervan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all:
> > Bring her on, its been a while since I beat up on a girl. I guess you
> could
> > say I'm salivating.
> seriously?? i mean, seriously???????????
> "If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also."
> Luke 6:29 (NIV)
> i don't believe "turning the other cheek" counts when you're
> anticipating throwing the first punch before someone has even met you,
> let alone before they have spoken or even have been given the chance
> to offer you a slice of heavenly bread to eat.
I find your gleeful love for emotional violence, anger, and cruelty disgusting and nasty. If your posts are a true representation of your thought process, I think you should get your meds reevaluated. Paranoid schizophrenia is an unfortunate thing. A terrible, tormenting demon. Don't let it control you.
'You may be right, I may be crazy! But it just maybe a solartic you're
looking for.'
Meds? You honestly think I AM gonna let the 'sons of Freud' experiment on
me. I hope He don't put me to that test. I'm paranoid with good reason.
There's a demon out there alright, but it isn't what most guys out there
think it is...shall I paraphrase another song...'there's a blackbird rising
and ewe won't recognize it.'
Know the Lord,
Pete
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:42 AM, ON EARTH Ministries <
> I find your gleeful love for emotional violence, anger, and cruelty
> disgusting and nasty.
> If your posts are a true representation of your thought process, I
> think you should get your meds reevaluated.
> Paranoid schizophrenia is an unfortunate thing. A terrible, tormenting
> demon.
> Don't let it control you.
> Seriously.
> Peace and All Good Things,
> Brother Larry Roy Woodsmall
> ON EARTH MINISTRIES
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Peter VanGee <petervan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Larry:
> 'You may be right, I may be crazy! But it just maybe a solartic you're
> looking for.'
> Meds? You honestly think I AM gonna let the 'sons of Freud' experiment on
> me. I hope He don't put me to that test. I'm paranoid with good reason.
> There's a demon out there alright, but it isn't what most guys out there
> think it is...shall I paraphrase another song...'there's a blackbird rising
> and ewe won't recognize it.'
> Know the Lord,
> Pete
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:42 AM, ON EARTH Ministries
> <onearth.ministries.br.woodsm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Peter -
>> I find your gleeful love for emotional violence, anger, and cruelty
>> disgusting and nasty.
>> If your posts are a true representation of your thought process, I
>> think you should get your meds reevaluated.
>> Paranoid schizophrenia is an unfortunate thing. A terrible, tormenting
>> demon.
>> Don't let it control you.
>> Seriously.
>> Peace and All Good Things,
>> Brother Larry Roy Woodsmall
>> ON EARTH MINISTRIES
-- Brother Larry Roy Woodsmall
ON EARTH MINISTRIES
I've already done an adequate job of deconstructing your arguments on blood
atonement. You don't agree with my conclusions and I respect that. Can
you, at least, do me the same favor of telling me what is wrong with my
interpretation of scripture. All you ever do is provide a counter quote
that really doesn't relate to what I said. The fact of the matter
is...Jesus healed people without the shedding of blood.
Know the Lord,
Pete
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Mathew Enoch Mount <mmo...@essex1.com>wrote:
> "All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names
> have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that
> was slain from the creation of the world." Revelation 13:8 (NIV)
> "Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness" Hebrews 9:22
> (NIV) The question is has anyone yet been saved without the blood of
> the lamb? No and their never will be. If God had not made sacrifice
> for Adam and Eve and the people of Nineveh, then how could they have
> been saved?
> On Nov 2, 6:22 pm, Peter VanGee <petervan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "I have told you this so that you might have peace in me. In the world
> you
> > will have trouble, but take courage, I have conquered the world." Jn
> 16.33
> > From what I understand, Jesus conquered the world and therefore sin and
> > death during the 40 days he spent in the desert. That's why he could
> > forgive sins. Who needs blood atonement...i says the fly. Buzz along
> now.
I stated here in one of my first posts that since the world doesn't
understand Jesus...I'd try to put things in terms it would understand.
I mentioned my 2 year old son and our trips to the sandbox...with me...you
have to read between the lines.
Know the Lord,
Pete
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 11:14 AM, ON EARTH Ministries <
> Freud is kind of old hat. Kind of like the phrase 'old hat'. giggle
> I'm just saying that there seems that there may be something
> physically wrong that there is help for.
> i just never hear the other side of you, Brother Peter.
> Do you have love and peace in your life? I hope so.
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Peter VanGee <petervan...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Larry:
> > 'You may be right, I may be crazy! But it just maybe a solartic you're
> > looking for.'
> > Meds? You honestly think I AM gonna let the 'sons of Freud' experiment
> on
> > me. I hope He don't put me to that test. I'm paranoid with good reason.
> > There's a demon out there alright, but it isn't what most guys out there
> > think it is...shall I paraphrase another song...'there's a blackbird
> rising
> > and ewe won't recognize it.'
> > Know the Lord,
> > Pete
> > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:42 AM, ON EARTH Ministries
> > <onearth.ministries.br.woodsm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Peter -
> >> I find your gleeful love for emotional violence, anger, and cruelty
> >> disgusting and nasty.
> >> If your posts are a true representation of your thought process, I
> >> think you should get your meds reevaluated.
> >> Paranoid schizophrenia is an unfortunate thing. A terrible, tormenting
> >> demon.
> >> Don't let it control you.
> >> Seriously.
> >> Peace and All Good Things,
> >> Brother Larry Roy Woodsmall
> >> ON EARTH MINISTRIES
> --
> Brother Larry Roy Woodsmall
> ON EARTH MINISTRIES
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:14 AM, Peter VanGee <petervan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Matt:
> I've already done an adequate job of deconstructing your arguments on blood
> atonement. You don't agree with my conclusions and I respect that. Can
> you, at least, do me the same favor of telling me what is wrong with my
> interpretation of scripture. All you ever do is provide a counter quote
> that really doesn't relate to what I said. The fact of the matter
> is...Jesus healed people without the shedding of blood.
> Know the Lord,
> Pete
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 7:56 PM, Mathew Enoch Mount <mmo...@essex1.com>
> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> "All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names
>> have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that
>> was slain from the creation of the world." Revelation 13:8 (NIV)
>> "Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness" Hebrews 9:22
>> (NIV) The question is has anyone yet been saved without the blood of
>> the lamb? No and their never will be. If God had not made sacrifice
>> for Adam and Eve and the people of Nineveh, then how could they have
>> been saved?
>> On Nov 2, 6:22 pm, Peter VanGee <petervan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > "I have told you this so that you might have peace in me. In the world
>> > you
>> > will have trouble, but take courage, I have conquered the world." Jn
>> > 16.33
>> > From what I understand, Jesus conquered the world and therefore sin and
>> > death during the 40 days he spent in the desert. That's why he could
>> > forgive sins. Who needs blood atonement...i says the fly. Buzz along
>> > now.
>> > Know the Lord,
>> > Pete
-- Brother Larry Roy Woodsmall
ON EARTH MINISTRIES
I never disagreed with Larry's statement, I disagree with Matt's insistance on the 'rite' of blood atonement. Faith saves, not a series of motions that lead to the spilling of blood. He had already suffered in the desert...conquered the world...so to speak.
Why did God put him to this test...I don't know...given that he said...'the flesh is of no avail'...and the statement in the Garden 'you are dirt and to dirt you will return.' I've been thinking about this and how it ultimately leads to the universal salvation. I haven't put all the pcs to together yet. I am suggesting that the final test was a humbling reminder to Jesus that he was, indeed, flesh and blood.
Know the Lord,
Pete
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 11:21 AM, ON EARTH Ministries <
The reason why Peter is ranting from the tomb is because when he was
put into the tomb with Jesus he did not believe in the blood atonement
of Christ. Thus when he comes out of the tomb it is not the spirits
that commune in the blood of the lamb that dwell within him. Overall,
I am not advocating any particular rite regarding blood atonement, but
I also am not departing from the law either regarding the
administration of blood atonement.
The fact that Christ is the lamb of God slain from the foundation of
the world according to scripture tells us that God did the atonement
of blood for the Ninevites. Also every blood sacrifice of the Jews
was a icon to the blood atonement of Jesus Christ, and if it was not
so then profits would come and God would punish the land for its
unfaithfulness. Overall, if blood does not atone for our sins, then
our sins are not atoned for.
The result is that when we are crucified with Christ some are put into
the tomb and are risen to life with the living, but others are risen
with the dead. The ones whom are risen with the living have the blood
of the body of Christ pumping through his entire body (the church)
this includes them, but the ones risen with the dead are like the man
on the cross the mocked Jesus before his death and they are not alive
at all even though they may appear alive they are really dead. The
Joan of Ark that I invited to the news group is armed with only the
sling of David, but yet with that sling I am confident that she could
topple even the greatest Tower of Babble.
> I never disagreed with Larry's statement, I disagree with Matt's insistance
> on the 'rite' of blood atonement. Faith saves, not a series of motions that
> lead to the spilling of blood. He had already suffered in the
> desert...conquered the world...so to speak.
> Why did God put him to this test...I don't know...given that he said...'the
> flesh is of no avail'...and the statement in the Garden 'you are dirt and to
> dirt you will return.' I've been thinking about this and how it ultimately
> leads to the universal salvation. I haven't put all the pcs to together
> yet. I am suggesting that the final test was a humbling reminder to Jesus
> that he was, indeed, flesh and blood.
> Know the Lord,
> Pete
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 11:21 AM, ON EARTH Ministries <
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Mathew Enoch Mount <mmo...@essex1.com>wrote:
> Hello,
> The reason why Peter is ranting from the tomb is because when he was > put into the tomb with Jesus he did not believe in the blood atonement > of Christ. Thus when he comes out of the tomb it is not the spirits > that commune in the blood of the lamb that dwell within him. Overall, > I am not advocating any particular rite regarding blood atonement, but > I also am not departing from the law either regarding the > administration of blood atonement.
Again this is an attack on me - and just so you know - I think I'm the voice of one screaming in the wilderness 'Make straight the way of the Lord.' Please tell me how the conclusions (which are based on scripture) I've come to are wrong - Need I remind you - when I brought up the teachings of the scholastics - you opted out of this particular conversation.
> The fact that Christ is the lamb of God slain from the foundation of > the world according to scripture tells us that God did the atonement > of blood for the Ninevites. Also every blood sacrifice of the Jews > was a icon to the blood atonement of Jesus Christ, and if it was not > so then profits would come and God would punish the land for its > unfaithfulness. Overall, if blood does not atone for our sins, then > our sins are not atoned for.
Actually, to counter your statement and to support mine. Jesus said they'd rise up to judge his current generation because they had faith - Like the Queen of Sheba.
> The result is that when we are crucified with Christ some are put into > the tomb and are risen to life with the living, but others are risen > with the dead. The ones whom are risen with the living have the blood > of the body of Christ pumping through his entire body (the church) > this includes them, but the ones risen with the dead are like the man > on the cross the mocked Jesus before his death and they are not alive > at all even though they may appear alive they are really dead. The > Joan of Ark that I invited to the news group is armed with only the > sling of David, but yet with that sling I am confident that she could > topple even the greatest Tower of Babble.
St. Joan is a Catholic, I got a feeling she agrees with me and St. Thomas Aquinas when it comes to blood atonement. Especially when you consider that she experienced martyrdom herself.
You are wrong Peter that Jesus just simply used spit to keep dirt
together, "Then Jesus left the vicinity of Tyre and went through
Sidon, down to the Sea of Galilee and into the region of the
Decapolis. There some people brought to him a man who was deaf and
could hardly talk, and they begged him to place his hand on the man.
After he took him aside, away from the crowd, Jesus put his fingers
into the man's ears. Then he spit and touched the man's tongue. He
looked up to heaven and with a deep sigh said to him,
"Ephphatha!" (which means, "Be opened!" ). At this, the man's ears
were opened, his tongue was loosened and he began to speak plainly."
Mark 7:31-35 (NIV) The point is that not only did Jesus heal without
dirt in this case, but he also touched the man’s tongue and put his
fingers in the mans ears.
> Bring her on, its been a while since I beat up on a girl. I guess you could
> say I'm salivating. I know that Jesus used spit to heal eyes in scripture
> and that there may have been some basis for it.
> I've never seen a healer use spit. Of course, then again - other than what
> was his name on TV - Ernest Angsley? I haven't seen too many healers
> period.
> I should mention that I am a minority in my neighborhood, and some guys tend
> to spit when they see me coming.
> I do have a two year old son - and we go to sandbox daily. We've found that
> if the sand is dry then it doesn't hold together. Given his thoughts on
> hand washing and the latrine, this is probably the real reason why Jesus
> used spit.
> Know the Lord,
i was just - and still am - appalled and deeply disturbed that you
immediately, and i mean IMMEDIATELY (the first sentence you even
typed) opted for hostility toward a new member before they even had
typed a single thing.
and i asked what was troubling you because i am sincerely concerned.
for someone who professes to follow the Jesus way to blatantly exhibit
words of demonic nature, that truly concerns me. i'm not saying this
with a single iota of sarcasm. we are here to help one another, Peter,
and we don't want you withholding your love (let alone actively
propagating hate). but if you see a newcomer as nothing more than
fresh meat for raking over the coals without reason and without
provocation (or even WITH reason and provocation), then the love of
Jesus is not flowing out of you. if just the thought of this group
having a new member arouses emotions of indignation and spite just for
them joining us, then the peace which passes all understanding is
surely lacking within you. if nothing was troubling you, then you
would be exhibiting peace which passes all understanding. and perhaps
you exhibit peace to all others in the rest of your life and save your
hatred and anger for this group. still, peace and agitation cannot
coexist. so as long as there is a lack of peace, then surely there are
troubles unresolved. and that is why i asked what was troubling you,
for something(s) surely is, and we, as a group, as Christians, as
followers of the Jesus way do not want that in ANY of our members. you
don't have to tell us your problems if you don't want to; you may take
the time to fix them privately and quietly. but it is only until you
are cleansed of your own inner demons, until you are able to help
yourself, that you are able to help others. we welcome all to help one
another.
adam
On Nov 3, 9:31 am, Peter VanGee <petervan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Seriously. I'll assume you're being sarcastic but since you ask: The last
> time I beat up a girl, I was twelve years old. My cousin Misty - she is 7
> years older than me. My parents took care of her, so she is like a sister
> to me. She was kind of tough, and she got the better of me til I was 12.
> After that last fight, we never fought again.
> What is troubling me? Seriously, I guess you could say its saliva. I don't
> know, maybe there is some basis in the old testament. You have to remember
> the old testament is a shadow of things to come. Matt's biggest weakness is
> that he knows scripture too well, but I'm not always sure he understands
> it. He goes off willy-nilly and gushers a torrent. Someone has to keep him
> in line. Faith is what healed people...some of the people in Jesus' own
> neighborhood were not healed because they lacked faith. Saliva?
> Remember 'The flesh is of no avail.' You might as well add the eye of a
> newt and the ear of a bat. This is magic he's talking about.
> Know the Lord,
> Pete
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 3:27 AM, Adam Colbert <adamcolb...@hotmail.com>wrote:
> > On Nov 2, 1:06 pm, Peter VanGee <petervan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi all:
> > > Bring her on, its been a while since I beat up on a girl. I guess you
> > could
> > > say I'm salivating.
> > seriously?? i mean, seriously???????????
> > "If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also."
> > Luke 6:29 (NIV)
> > i don't believe "turning the other cheek" counts when you're
> > anticipating throwing the first punch before someone has even met you,
> > let alone before they have spoken or even have been given the chance
> > to offer you a slice of heavenly bread to eat.
Am I wrong? Consider that a dog uses saliva to clean and treat his wounds.
Perhaps, given the knowledge of the day Jesus was trying to clean his ear
out. When I was little, when I'd cut myself - I'd suck my thumb. Now
days we know that human saliva doesn't cure wounds like dog saliva. I'm
not questioning the miracle. My point being that faith - not saliva
- heals.
Know the Lord,
Pete
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 11:51 PM, Mathew Enoch Mount <mmo...@essex1.com>wrote:
> You are wrong Peter that Jesus just simply used spit to keep dirt
> together, "Then Jesus left the vicinity of Tyre and went through
> Sidon, down to the Sea of Galilee and into the region of the
> Decapolis. There some people brought to him a man who was deaf and
> could hardly talk, and they begged him to place his hand on the man.
> After he took him aside, away from the crowd, Jesus put his fingers
> into the man's ears. Then he spit and touched the man's tongue. He
> looked up to heaven and with a deep sigh said to him,
> "Ephphatha!" (which means, "Be opened!" ). At this, the man's ears
> were opened, his tongue was loosened and he began to speak plainly."
> Mark 7:31-35 (NIV) The point is that not only did Jesus heal without
> dirt in this case, but he also touched the man’s tongue and put his
> fingers in the mans ears.
> On Nov 2, 1:06 pm, Peter VanGee <petervan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all:
> > Bring her on, its been a while since I beat up on a girl. I guess you
> could
> > say I'm salivating. I know that Jesus used spit to heal eyes in
> scripture
> > and that there may have been some basis for it.
> > I've never seen a healer use spit. Of course, then again - other than
> what
> > was his name on TV - Ernest Angsley? I haven't seen too many healers
> > period.
> > I should mention that I am a minority in my neighborhood, and some guys
> tend
> > to spit when they see me coming.
> > I do have a two year old son - and we go to sandbox daily. We've found
> that
> > if the sand is dry then it doesn't hold together. Given his thoughts on
> > hand washing and the latrine, this is probably the real reason why Jesus
> > used spit.
> > Know the Lord,
Actually, my first statement was to - 'bring her on' I enjoy a verbal joust
and was welcoming her in my own way. You may find it hard to believe but my
statements did not harbor any animosity. I am sorry that you don't like my
sense of humor.
If you all want to avoid scaring a girl away - next time - avoid the 5 page
exposition on spittle. I don't care what kind of research she's done -
she's still a girl. And If you feel the need - tell her my bark is worse
than my bite. I think we all know that if I'm the worse that she's seen -
she don't get out of the house very often.
My name is on my emails. I may very well be the only white guy in my
neighborhood. I stick out like a sore thumb. Whether your intentions are
good or evil, I am the probably the easiest guy in the world to find.
Know the Lord,
Pete
On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 5:31 AM, Adam Colbert <adamcolb...@hotmail.com>wrote:
> i was just - and still am - appalled and deeply disturbed that you
> immediately, and i mean IMMEDIATELY (the first sentence you even
> typed) opted for hostility toward a new member before they even had
> typed a single thing.
> and i asked what was troubling you because i am sincerely concerned.
> for someone who professes to follow the Jesus way to blatantly exhibit
> words of demonic nature, that truly concerns me. i'm not saying this
> with a single iota of sarcasm. we are here to help one another, Peter,
> and we don't want you withholding your love (let alone actively
> propagating hate). but if you see a newcomer as nothing more than
> fresh meat for raking over the coals without reason and without
> provocation (or even WITH reason and provocation), then the love of
> Jesus is not flowing out of you. if just the thought of this group
> having a new member arouses emotions of indignation and spite just for
> them joining us, then the peace which passes all understanding is
> surely lacking within you. if nothing was troubling you, then you
> would be exhibiting peace which passes all understanding. and perhaps
> you exhibit peace to all others in the rest of your life and save your
> hatred and anger for this group. still, peace and agitation cannot
> coexist. so as long as there is a lack of peace, then surely there are
> troubles unresolved. and that is why i asked what was troubling you,
> for something(s) surely is, and we, as a group, as Christians, as
> followers of the Jesus way do not want that in ANY of our members. you
> don't have to tell us your problems if you don't want to; you may take
> the time to fix them privately and quietly. but it is only until you
> are cleansed of your own inner demons, until you are able to help
> yourself, that you are able to help others. we welcome all to help one
> another.
> adam
> On Nov 3, 9:31 am, Peter VanGee <petervan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all:
> > Hi all:
> > Seriously. I'll assume you're being sarcastic but since you ask: The
> last
> > time I beat up a girl, I was twelve years old. My cousin Misty - she is
> 7
> > years older than me. My parents took care of her, so she is like a
> sister
> > to me. She was kind of tough, and she got the better of me til I was 12.
> > After that last fight, we never fought again.
> > What is troubling me? Seriously, I guess you could say its saliva. I
> don't
> > know, maybe there is some basis in the old testament. You have to
> remember
> > the old testament is a shadow of things to come. Matt's biggest weakness
> is
> > that he knows scripture too well, but I'm not always sure he understands
> > it. He goes off willy-nilly and gushers a torrent. Someone has to keep
> him
> > in line. Faith is what healed people...some of the people in Jesus' own
> > neighborhood were not healed because they lacked faith. Saliva?
> > Remember 'The flesh is of no avail.' You might as well add the eye of a
> > newt and the ear of a bat. This is magic he's talking about.
> > Know the Lord,
> > Pete
> > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 3:27 AM, Adam Colbert <adamcolb...@hotmail.com
> >wrote:
> > > On Nov 2, 1:06 pm, Peter VanGee <petervan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Hi all:
> > > > Bring her on, its been a while since I beat up on a girl. I guess
> you
> > > could
> > > > say I'm salivating.
> > > seriously?? i mean, seriously???????????
> > > "If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also."
> > > Luke 6:29 (NIV)
> > > i don't believe "turning the other cheek" counts when you're
> > > anticipating throwing the first punch before someone has even met you,
> > > let alone before they have spoken or even have been given the chance
> > > to offer you a slice of heavenly bread to eat.
I just want to mention that the woman whom I invited to the news group
whom Peter reacted to is very slender and about five feet tall. She
works with me and is very kind and understanding of theology. The
reason why the subject of spit arose is because she works behind a
sneeze guard as she prepares food for free samples in a retail store.
We had been questioning the theological value of the sneeze guard to
some extent, and this lead us to investigate the use of spit in
scripture. After I invited her to the news group, she requested that
I explain the spit in more detail and I did in my original post on
this subject.
I fear that due to the meekness of David the actions of Peter may have
caused her to flee combat with Peter. The fact is that because of her
Davidic qualities I think that she has the sling of David, and I think
that she can use that against Peter anytime she desires as the Jone of
Arc dragon slayer. If she speaks even one word causing the theology
of Peter to come crashing down, then we will know that like the sling
of David that killed Goliath it was the power of God and only the
power of God that brought down Goliath because David was so small
compared to Goliath.
> Actually, my first statement was to - 'bring her on' I enjoy a verbal joust
> and was welcoming her in my own way. You may find it hard to believe but my
> statements did not harbor any animosity. I am sorry that you don't like my
> sense of humor.
> If you all want to avoid scaring a girl away - next time - avoid the 5 page
> exposition on spittle. I don't care what kind of research she's done -
> she's still a girl. And If you feel the need - tell her my bark is worse
> than my bite. I think we all know that if I'm the worse that she's seen -
> she don't get out of the house very often.
> My name is on my emails. I may very well be the only white guy in my
> neighborhood. I stick out like a sore thumb. Whether your intentions are
> good or evil, I am the probably the easiest guy in the world to find.
|
