RE: Getting back to a true jBASE forum

[Jim Idle]

I think that that is the end of the group; I always resisted this move.

 

Jim

 

From: jb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Weiser
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 12:19 PM
To: jb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Getting back to a true jBASE forum

 

Hi all,

This group was originally created to provide jBASE users with an outlet to discuss issues, successes and ideas.  Over the past few years, the focus of this group has turned more toward Globus/T24.  As the original creator of this group, I have discussed this with the other managers of the group and we have come to an executive decision.

As of December 31st, 2011, we will stop accepting Globus/T24 posts on this forum.  We suggest that one of the more high profile T24 users create a forum specifically for Globus/T24 where your users can go to get the help they need for this environment.  Of course, any true jBASE questions from T24 users are still welcome.

Thank you for your cooperation and support,

Rick

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[Rick Weiser]

Jim,

I understand your concern, but isn't it the end of the group anyway if 95% of the posts are for T24?

Rick

[Pawel (privately)]

Hi,

 

I agree with Jim. I think that there are not many (pure) jBASE questions which can be asked :) Usually jBASE users are related somehow to Temenos / T24 product.

Honestly jBASE is nice and relatively efficient database (that really depends on hardware used :(), but should make bigger steps forward. Otherwise there will be no single (T24) customer using it.

 

Kind regards

Pawel

 

Dnia 15-08-2011 o godz. 21:52 Jim Idle napisaďż˝(a):

Kind regards

Pawel

[Rick Weiser]

Pawel,

While T24 makes up a large percentage of jBASE customers, there are still a lot of pure jBASE users.

Rick

[Jim Idle]

No – it is a transmogrification, and goes where it goes. Sending one group of jBASE users off on its own merely splinters it unnecessarily in my opinion. But, so be it.

 

Jim

 

 

--

[Treg Taylor]

All,

 

As a non-T24 JBase user, I find value in some of the solutions presented by the T24 users.

 

Treg

 

From: jb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Weiser

Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 1:11 PM
To: jb...@googlegroups.com

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[Tony Gravagno]

I completely agree with the decision and have been looking for this for a long time now - since most of the mail I get here is for T24 which needs to be filter out.

 

This is the ONLY group in the Pick/MultiValue community which combines application-related posts with DBMS.  I've never understood the insistence to burden one group with the concerns of the other.  The negative connotation of "splintering" can easily be replaced with a more positive vision for allowing each group to focus on concerns of greater interest.

 

jBase is a great platform, but like most MV platforms the developer base doesn't use it to its full potential.  Personally I'd rather see this forum sparked with more questions about Web Services, telephony, scanners, mobile access, GUI, integration with other products, and usage in new and creative applications.  I'd like to see more jBase sales to individuals and companies who have never seen it before, and see more queries from people who want to use this in a more mainstream context, outside of the mundane/traditional usage that stiffles the discussions here.

 

I'd like to see requests from jBase users for tools and consultation to solve new and old problems.  I'd like to see "hey has anyone done this?" kind of notes.  I'd like to see tech tips on neat ways to use jBase, things that Jim and Rick and devsup people know about but the rest of us don't.  I'd like to see all that, in addition to, but not instead of responses to site-specific problems that many here may never see.

 

If this forum does not get used better, that's just the way it is.  This community is a lot like other MV communities and that's just where we stand in life.  For reference, most of the other DBMS-specific forums in our market are quite dead.  But jBase is a different kind of platform and I'd hope that this community would have a slightly different, more forward-thinking perspective.  If not, c'est la vie.

 

While T24 has dominated 95% of this forum in the past, I believe eliminating application-specific queries can clear the way for a wide variety of new discussions.  T24 users won't suffer by moving to another forum, and this group stands to benefit from a drop in distracting traffic.  Note that T24 users can also learn from jBase tips as well as share their experience.  T24 people aren't getting pushed away, they're just being asked to use a different forum for different purposes.  Again, that's not unreasonable as that's what everyone else does.

 

Tony Gravagno

Nebula Research and Development

TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com

Nebula R&D sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue products

worldwide, and provides related development services

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Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute!

http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno

 

 

 

---

From: Jim Idle

No – it is a transmogrification, and goes where it goes. Sending one group of jBASE users off on its own merely splinters it unnecessarily in my opinion. But, so be it.

 

Jim

 

 

From: Rick Weiser
I understand your concern, but isn't it the end of the group anyway if 95% of the posts are for T24? 

 

[Nguyen Trong Dai]

Dear group,

Because T24 and Jbase have strong relationship, I think in many case we can not know exactly what is Jbase, what is T24, so I agree with Jim: "I think that that is the end of the group; I always resisted this move."

--

[Tony Gravagno]

From: Nguyen Trong Dai

> Because T24 and Jbase have strong relationship, I
> think in many case we can not know exactly what is

> Jbase, what is T24...

If a person can't tell the difference between the database and
their business application then they probably aren't the right
person to be posting to a forum on behalf of their employer.

The question to ask yourself is "would my question apply to
anyone with this DBMS, or does it only apply to banks with this
specific software?". The question "During the replication of the
two servers which mode is best supported by jbase? " is a DBMS
question, not to be prefaced with "T24". A question like "is
there a menu option to turn on replication" is a T24 question. A
borderline case might be "my custom BASIC code failed to update a
file in a subroutine call, and I don't know if the application
restricted the update or if the DBMS did".

When in doubt, post to the T24 forum and you will either get a
response there, or someone will suggest you post to the DBMS
forum. That's not too tough is it? This happens every day in
other forums.

The alternative is that the entire jBase membership gets an
enquiry that has nothing to do with jBase - I think this actually
hurts the jBase community, giving people the impression that
jBase is now nothing more than a subset of T24. This forum has
1927 subscriptions of which "some percentage" does not use T24,
and this has been going on for 6 years. Non-T24 people don't
burden the group with their application-related questions like
"how do I run period end close", they take those questions
elsewhere. Bank IT people should be as considerate.

Is that unreasonable or too difficult?

> , so I agree with Jim: "I think that that is the end
> of the group; I always resisted this move."

Like I said, if that's the end of the jBase group, then it is
what it is. It's up to jBase people to keep their group alive
for their own reasons. If T24 is the only thing keeping this
group alive then it was dead a long time ago and people need to
start thinking about how to address that problem on its own.

[Mark Hogden]

If I had bothered to read this all the way to the bottom I would have wasted
more time than I spent all last year filtering T24 crap(jimi will no doubt
attribute this to my antipodean education and not the length of the post),
and if I added in the time spent lurking in CDP well...

As the poster implied, it's folks who don't know a correlative from a
coconut that probably stand to benefit most from this kind of hybrid group,
and they probably represent the majority of jBase seats, so WTF. And who
knows, maybe if we were nice to them they might consider another jBase
solution at some point in their bright futures.

Now if only someone would start a top posting vs bottom posting, newsreader
shootout thread, and then cross post it, I could avoid work altogether.

-----Original Message-----
From: jb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of

[Jim Idle]

Mark,

Don't Aussies always read bottom up?

Jim

[Jim Idle]

Aw blah blah. It really doesn't matter does it now? Everyone is a user and everyone has some sort of app to go with it. Just lend a hand and don't worry.

Anyway it is time to go see the Timbers slaughter Chivas.

[Kevin Powick]

On Aug 23, 11:20 pm, Nguyen Trong Dai <daint.teme...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Because T24 and Jbase have strong relationship, I think in many case we can
> not know exactly what is Jbase, what is T24

And that's the problem of a typical T24 poster. Not knowing the
difference between the database and the application.

--
Kevin Powick

[Kevin Powick]

On Aug 24, 5:55 pm, "Mark Hogden" <m...@proman.com> wrote:

> As the poster implied, it's folks who don't know a correlative from a
> coconut that probably stand to benefit most from this kind of hybrid group,
> and they probably represent the majority of jBase seats, so WTF. And who
> knows, maybe if we were nice to them they might consider another jBase
> solution at some point in their bright futures.

This is akin to saying there are a lot more passengers than pilots, so
let's have the passengers posting to an aircraft technical forum set-
up for pilots. Hey, if we're nice to them, maybe they'll fly on our
airline.

A technical forum should not be seen as a marketing device to target
end-users. If marketing is to be part of the equation at all, a tech
forum should give developers a sense that there is a thriving
developer community available as a valuable resource outside of
official support channels.

By having the passengers post to the pilot's tech forum, you're just
going to drive away the pilots because of the poor signal to noise
ratio. And that's my sense of what's happened to this jBASE group.

--
Kevin Powick

[Kevin Powick]

On Aug 15, 3:52 pm, Jim Idle <j...@temporal-wave.com> wrote:

> I think that that is the end of the group; I always resisted this move.

IMO, T24 has been the demise of the jBASE group for jBASE developers.
Too many T24 questions with no technical relevance to jBASE. I agree
with Rick W's decision.

I visit the jBASE group much less often than I used to because it has
been taken over by T24 posts. I don't want to filter through all of
those T24 "product" and "end-user" posts to maybe find the one or two
that are interesting from a jBASE/technical perspective.

--
Kevin Powick

[David Grenfell]

Hi Guys:
 
I have been retired now for a few years, but still lurk in this group.  I guess, I'm losing touch but...WHAT THE !@# IS T24.  Is it an application written in Jbase or another DBS that has replaced Jbase.  Seems like every time there is a T24 problem, it gets blamed on Jbase, so it can't be a replacement.   If it is an application, then why can't the guys and gals who wrote it be responsible for it?  All my old clients used to call me if my application had a bug.  I never blamed it on Jbase.
 
David Grenfell
 

> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 07:06:39 -0700
> Subject: Re: Getting back to a true jBASE forum
> From: kpo...@gmail.com
> To: jb...@googlegroups.com

[Simon]

David

As you may know, jBASE is owned by Temenos...

Temenos' main business is actually supplying banking software - the latest incarnation of which is called "T24".  jBASE is the database at the heart of T24.    The forum seems to support both T24 application related issues and jBASE database issues - it would appear that many T24 users seem to not recognise a differentiation between the T24 application and the jBASE database it runs on - hence a lot of the confusing posts.

Regards
Simon

[Jim Idle]

I think he Means that some issues are not clear.

[Tony Gravagno]

Hmmm...

- jBase people don't know or care about T24.
- T24 people don't know about jBase.
- Some perceive the jBase forum has been killed by T24 dominance.
- Jim believes the jBase forum can't survive without T24.

Product Marketing for Temenos and jBase International: please
take some notes from this discussion. You have serious
communications problems that needs to be fixed, way beyond the
public forum. But we've known this for quite a long time now,
haven't we?

Regards,
T

From: Simon
> As you may know, jBASE is owned by Temenos...
>

> ...it would appear that many T24 users seem to not

> recognise a differentiation between the T24
> application and the jBASE database it runs on - hence
> a lot of the confusing posts.

[Jim Idle]

Oh shut up.

Jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf

> Of Tony Gravagno
> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 12:20 PM
> To: jB...@googlegroups.com

[Charlie Noah]

Hopefully, Jim just forgot the smiley, so he can have one of mine. :-)

Regards,
Charlie Noah

[Rick Weiser]

I have been staying out of this conversation but I do need to now put my 2 cents in.  When I first started this group it was strictly as a replacement for the never used jBASE forum.  After some time and getting many spam posts, we decided to moderate this group so that the spam didn't get to the users.  Then the Temenos/Globus/T24 users started posting.  So, now, instead of rejecting spam posts, I spend the time making sure the T24 posts are formatted correctly so that the jBase users can filter the emails.

I have received many emails from jBASE users thanking me for this decision.  Many of which have not used the forum because its over loaded with T24 posts.

I don't want anyone to feel that they are being pushed out of this forum.  They simply need to know the difference between the application and the database.  This forum gets T24 posts that frankly do not belong in any forum but should be directed to Temenos support directly.

Thank you all for your support,

Rick

[kanesolve]

The success of a database or an operating system is measured by the number of applications that are built on it.  Whoever is going to use jBase shall be using it for one application or the other. T24 is one such application and making T24 users go away from this forum will only stop us from discussing certain issues that might go unnoticed otherwise.

 

I do agree some of them are posting true T24 questions (Like how do I do this in a version or enquiry) which should be moderated, instead of making them go away.

 

Thanks,

 

Kannan

--

[Rick Weiser]

Kannan,

I don't disagree with you on this.  I have no problem with users who want to post about their successes on this forum.  However, issues/questions about an application don't belong here.  I subscribe to all of the other MV platform forums and not a single one of them has application issues/questions posted.  All posts are strictly related to the database.  This is all that I am trying to do.

Rick

[Mukanya]

May all those interested in the continuity of our good all T24 please
migrate to www.t24all.com. All your problems can be sorted there.

Regards
Concern

[VK]

Hi All,
I read this thread with great interest. My 2 cents are:

I'm T24 man but the one that can tell application level from DBMS one.
Unfortunately, Temenos recently has taken the approach that all so-
called "local" developments are done not by trained technical
consultants as it was before (and not by customer's staff), but by an
internal Temenos "coders" group where people are taken after,
possibly, 1-day training. Hence the lot of low-qualification in
questioning. Many people think that anything that is related to T24
can be asked here.

Also T24 has certain level of abstraction leading to many even
qualified T24 people not knowing, for example, what correlative is.

I agree that this group is to be cleaned - I don't think that T24
people are not welcome any more - just more moderation is necessary.
I'm often tempted to reply to some query "this isn't jbase at all" but
I'm merely a user...

After all, T24 users have another forum - http://www.t24all.com. I've
tried to stay there first but it really full of newbies not only
asking same things over and over again but also giving absolutely
wrong advices.

OK, 4 cents :))

VK

On Aug 26, 5:58 am, Rick Weiser <r...@designbais.com> wrote:

[Daniel Klein]

We could always do this democratically but then when has history recorded ANY case in which the majority was right?

Dan

On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Jim Idle <ji...@temporal-wave.com> wrote:

I think that that is the end of the group; I always resisted this move.

 

Jim

 

From: jb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Weiser

Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 12:19 PM
To: jb...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Getting back to a true jBASE forum

 

Hi all,

This group was originally created to provide jBASE users with an outlet to discuss issues, successes and ideas.  Over the past few years, the focus of this group has turned more toward Globus/T24.  As the original creator of this group, I have discussed this with the other managers of the group and we have come to an executive decision.

As of December 31st, 2011, we will stop accepting Globus/T24 posts on this forum.  We suggest that one of the more high profile T24 users create a forum specifically for Globus/T24 where your users can go to get the help they need for this environment.  Of course, any true jBASE questions from T24 users are still welcome.

Thank you for your cooperation and support,

Rick

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[Simon Verona]

We could fix that by going with the minority vote....

Simon Verona