[jazz_guitar] Anyone else buy the new sheet music book for Hank Garland's Velvet Guitar album?
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carl
Oct 19, 2009, 5:21:20 AM10/19/09
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What did you guys think? Seems pretty accurate to me, although I havent played through all of it yet, but what I have looks great. Contact Mike at jazzgui...@yahoo.com if you are interested!
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Bob Hansmann
Oct 19, 2009, 8:47:31 AM10/19/09
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> What did you guys think? Seems pretty accurate to me, although I
> havent played through all of it yet, but what I have looks great.
> havent played through all of it yet, but what I have looks great.
I think that at $45, I'll pass.
Bobby
carl
Oct 20, 2009, 1:33:54 AM10/20/09
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--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, Bob Hansmann <bobbybmusic@...> wrote:
>
> > What did you guys think? Seems pretty accurate to me, although I
> > havent played through all of it yet, but what I have looks great.
>
> I think that at $45, I'll pass.
>
> > What did you guys think? Seems pretty accurate to me, although I
> > havent played through all of it yet, but what I have looks great.
>
> I think that at $45, I'll pass.
Considering its worth at least twice that much, I think $42 is a steal. Youre missing out big time. Oh well.
Carl
Bob Hansmann
Oct 20, 2009, 1:52:02 PM10/20/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
> Considering its worth at least twice that much, I think $42 is a
> steal. Youre missing out big time. Oh well.
> steal. Youre missing out big time. Oh well.
Look at the bright side. It gave you a second, and now a third time to
post the ad!
best,
Bobby
carl
Oct 20, 2009, 4:23:58 PM10/20/09
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> Look at the bright side. It gave you a second, and now a third time to
> post the ad!
> post the ad!
Umm I really have nothing to gain from Mike selling more books. I just wanted to talk about it with the other people who bought it.
mike j
Nov 25, 2009, 3:24:22 AM11/25/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, "carl" <carlvaldes@...> wrote:
>
> > Look at the bright side. It gave you a second, and now a third time to
> > post the ad!
>
>
> Umm I really have nothing to gain from Mike selling more books. I just wanted to talk about it with the other people who bought it.
>
I hate to advertise myself again(so I wont mention it anymore after this), but I thought I would say that if anyone is interested in buying it for a cheaper price to send me an email.
>
> > Look at the bright side. It gave you a second, and now a third time to
> > post the ad!
>
>
> Umm I really have nothing to gain from Mike selling more books. I just wanted to talk about it with the other people who bought it.
>
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optics22000
Nov 25, 2009, 11:34:53 AM11/25/09
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Hi guys,
I'm mostly a lurker, have enjoyed the knowledge and tone of the discussion here.
As a beginning player, I have some questions about guitars that maybe someone would care to help with.
Currently I have two inexpensive guitars, a Strat clone and a semi-hollow body. Neither is horrible, but I can't help wondering what it would be like to play a better guitar.
So:
How important is it to have a hollow body guitar?
I see occasionally seen Telecasters being used for jazz, is this a good solid guitar?
Is there anything about necks that would make a guitar more suitable for jazz playing than for some other style?
What should I look for in a hollow body?
Do stores usually set up the guitar or is that negotiable?
A Gretch I looked at in a GuitarCenter was almost unplayable, you'd think if they really wanted to sell it they'd have the action set to a reasonable height.
And since I live in a small city- the music stores here carry only instruments for rock players- how can I find a guitar? LA is 2 hours away- can anyone recommend a guitar store there?
The newspaper and Craigs List haven't been much use.
Lots of questions- thanks for the help
I'm mostly a lurker, have enjoyed the knowledge and tone of the discussion here.
As a beginning player, I have some questions about guitars that maybe someone would care to help with.
Currently I have two inexpensive guitars, a Strat clone and a semi-hollow body. Neither is horrible, but I can't help wondering what it would be like to play a better guitar.
So:
How important is it to have a hollow body guitar?
I see occasionally seen Telecasters being used for jazz, is this a good solid guitar?
Is there anything about necks that would make a guitar more suitable for jazz playing than for some other style?
What should I look for in a hollow body?
Do stores usually set up the guitar or is that negotiable?
A Gretch I looked at in a GuitarCenter was almost unplayable, you'd think if they really wanted to sell it they'd have the action set to a reasonable height.
And since I live in a small city- the music stores here carry only instruments for rock players- how can I find a guitar? LA is 2 hours away- can anyone recommend a guitar store there?
The newspaper and Craigs List haven't been much use.
Lots of questions- thanks for the help
Mike Detlefsen
Nov 25, 2009, 5:19:30 PM11/25/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
optics22000 wrote:
> A Gretch I looked at in a GuitarCenter was almost unplayable, you'd think if they really wanted to sell it they'd have the action set to a reasonable height.
>
>
I hear you. The last Gretsch I bought was a 6122-1959 (an excellent
> A Gretch I looked at in a GuitarCenter was almost unplayable, you'd think if they really wanted to sell it they'd have the action set to a reasonable height.
>
>
guitar for jazz). It was ordered for me, and I took it before GC could
mess with it and took it to a good setup guy, even though I'm a fair
setup guy. It's a dream to play and is the best playing/sounding
electric guitar I've ever played.
Mike
guit...@comcast.net
Nov 25, 2009, 5:11:47 PM11/25/09
to jazz guitar
> How important is it to have a hollow body guitar?
I see occasionally seen Telecasters being used for jazz, is this a good solid guitar?<
Having a hollow body guitar is important as you want to make it. One of the best jazz sounding guitars I ever owned was a Tele with a rosewood fingerboard and a humbucker as the neck pickup.
I see occasionally seen Telecasters being used for jazz, is this a good solid guitar?<
>Is there anything about necks that would make a guitar more suitable for jazz playing than for some other style?<
> What should I look for in a hollow body?<
> Do stores usually set up the guitar or is that negotiable?<
> A Gretch I looked at in a GuitarCenter was almost unplayable, you'd think if they really wanted to sell it they'd have the action set to a reasonable height.<
Good Luck,
Brad
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Chris Smart
Nov 25, 2009, 3:35:19 PM11/25/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Hi there.
While it is certainly true that you can play jazz on anything, that
traditional jazz guitar sound a lot of people have in mind is
almost always played on a hollow-body. Jazz is a style and an
approach, a feeling even, more than a specific type of darker
guitar sound.
that said, Ed Bickert's telecaster sounded beautiful, and many
people play telecasters with good results. A humbucking pickup in
the neck position and heavier strings will get you a lot of the way
there.
what make and model is your hollowbody? It probably just needs a
good setup, which usually isn't tricky at all. Yes, someone in a
guitar store will charge you $30 or something to do a basic
set-up. You might want to make a deal with them that they set your
guitar up, but they also explain the process so you can do most of
the simple tasks yourself in future.
You definitely are right about that Gretch you tried ... most large
guitar stores don't bother to check the playability of new
instruments. I completely agree with you - I hate picking up an
expensive guitar and finding it stiff or otherwise hard to play.
Chris
While it is certainly true that you can play jazz on anything, that
traditional jazz guitar sound a lot of people have in mind is
almost always played on a hollow-body. Jazz is a style and an
approach, a feeling even, more than a specific type of darker
guitar sound.
that said, Ed Bickert's telecaster sounded beautiful, and many
people play telecasters with good results. A humbucking pickup in
the neck position and heavier strings will get you a lot of the way
there.
what make and model is your hollowbody? It probably just needs a
good setup, which usually isn't tricky at all. Yes, someone in a
guitar store will charge you $30 or something to do a basic
set-up. You might want to make a deal with them that they set your
guitar up, but they also explain the process so you can do most of
the simple tasks yourself in future.
You definitely are right about that Gretch you tried ... most large
guitar stores don't bother to check the playability of new
instruments. I completely agree with you - I hate picking up an
expensive guitar and finding it stiff or otherwise hard to play.
Chris
JVeg...@aol.com
Nov 25, 2009, 1:09:20 PM11/25/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Here's my .02:
A hollow-body "jazz box" is great if you're going to be playing
lots of that kind of music, but even then it has limitations,
especially at higher volumes. Laminated (plywood) top guitars
of that sort tend to feed back less at louder volumes.
I do 90% of my jazz gigs with a modded Tele, and it does the
job. If I take a jazz box to a gig, more often than not it's for
the visual aspect, rather than anything sonic. I'm sure there
are lots of guys here who don't share that pov, to each his
own. I'd put my sound on the Tele up "against" just about
anything, and I think it'd hold up OK.
Neck size/width/shape and scale are personal issues. I
don't think there's any conventional "wisdom" on this stuff.
Go with what you like.
As with any guitar, look for build and material quality in a
jazz box, play it to determine whether you like the way it
feels and sounds, and like that. I also think strings can
make a big difference; sometimes just going up a gauge
or two on your current guitar can get you the tone you're
seeking, w/o having to buy another axe. Not as much fun,
but cheaper, and if it's the sound you're looking for...
I don't want to sound disparaging, but I wouldn't trust the
folks @ GC to set up an instrument. Personally, I build
the price of a good setup into the instrument price, and
Gil (my tech) gets to play my new instrument before I do.
There are a couple of good guitar stores in the LA area,
CA Vintage Guitar and Amp is pretty good, but they can
be pricy; Grayson's Tune Town is also really good, and I
do a lot of business with Charles Music in Glendale. To
be honest, though, I'd probably buy the guitar on the 'net,
then just have it set up. If for some reason you got one
that had some huge problem, it'd probably be easier to
return/exchange it as well. There are places like Jeff
Hale Music and archtop.com that are very reputable, and
easy to deal with.
Good luck, hope this helps...
Cheers,
JV
Juan Vega
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A hollow-body "jazz box" is great if you're going to be playing
lots of that kind of music, but even then it has limitations,
especially at higher volumes. Laminated (plywood) top guitars
of that sort tend to feed back less at louder volumes.
I do 90% of my jazz gigs with a modded Tele, and it does the
job. If I take a jazz box to a gig, more often than not it's for
the visual aspect, rather than anything sonic. I'm sure there
are lots of guys here who don't share that pov, to each his
own. I'd put my sound on the Tele up "against" just about
anything, and I think it'd hold up OK.
Neck size/width/shape and scale are personal issues. I
don't think there's any conventional "wisdom" on this stuff.
Go with what you like.
As with any guitar, look for build and material quality in a
jazz box, play it to determine whether you like the way it
feels and sounds, and like that. I also think strings can
make a big difference; sometimes just going up a gauge
or two on your current guitar can get you the tone you're
seeking, w/o having to buy another axe. Not as much fun,
but cheaper, and if it's the sound you're looking for...
I don't want to sound disparaging, but I wouldn't trust the
folks @ GC to set up an instrument. Personally, I build
the price of a good setup into the instrument price, and
Gil (my tech) gets to play my new instrument before I do.
There are a couple of good guitar stores in the LA area,
CA Vintage Guitar and Amp is pretty good, but they can
be pricy; Grayson's Tune Town is also really good, and I
do a lot of business with Charles Music in Glendale. To
be honest, though, I'd probably buy the guitar on the 'net,
then just have it set up. If for some reason you got one
that had some huge problem, it'd probably be easier to
return/exchange it as well. There are places like Jeff
Hale Music and archtop.com that are very reputable, and
easy to deal with.
Good luck, hope this helps...
Cheers,
JV
Juan Vega
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rguitarjj
Nov 26, 2009, 3:02:44 AM11/26/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Here's my view. Assuming you want a steel string instrument ...
The first thing to decide is scale length. If you like the way a Strat or Tele feels (or an L5) that's 25.5. If those are too big, and you like a Les Paul or a 335, that's 24 3/4. From there, you can find some at 25.0 and some at 22.5 (I think -- I'm not certain about that measurement). Whatever you pick, there's some famous guy who sounded great with the same scale length.
After that, it gets murkier, IMO.
I guess you then have to decide whether you're going to get a hollow body, a semi, or a solid. Great jazz players have used all of them, and I don't think you can always tell which is which on a recording. Once they're amplified, they don't necessarily sound all that different. Chances are you'll want humbuckers, but you won't know which model is best.
If you can hear the difference and you want to get a certain classic jazz sound, you may be unhappy with anything but an archtop. Personally, I can't hear the difference reliably except when they're howling with feedback -- then I know it's a hollow body guitar.
Then, for me, it's ergonomics. You have to find a specific model with a good neck feel, good geometry for the body so that you can play comfortably and, this is important, pick near the sweet spot (where the 24th fret would be) -- although it actually varies with the note you're playing --12 frets up from the note seems to sound best). Archtops tend to be big and may not be comfortable. You may need a smaller one.
Then, you have to make sure you can get your sound. This is tough, since a cheaper guitar may be a pickup change away from sounding fabulous. But, there's no way to tell that in the store. Also, you can't tell what it's going to sound like with a band based on a demo in a store. You have to get a return privilege.
I'd suggest making sure the upper register sings out clearly -- a problem I've had with several guitars.
Now, to speak out of the other side of my mouth ... I bought my main instrument a D'Angelico EXDC having never seen or played one, knowing only that it was 24 3/4 and had a solid block under the bridge. I thougth it was going to be a backup, but it sounds much better than the Gibson L5S I had been playing.
And, then, after you get the perfect guitar, get back to us about searching for the perfect pick, amp, cable and effects. In my experience the amp makes more difference than the guitar.
Rick
The first thing to decide is scale length. If you like the way a Strat or Tele feels (or an L5) that's 25.5. If those are too big, and you like a Les Paul or a 335, that's 24 3/4. From there, you can find some at 25.0 and some at 22.5 (I think -- I'm not certain about that measurement). Whatever you pick, there's some famous guy who sounded great with the same scale length.
After that, it gets murkier, IMO.
I guess you then have to decide whether you're going to get a hollow body, a semi, or a solid. Great jazz players have used all of them, and I don't think you can always tell which is which on a recording. Once they're amplified, they don't necessarily sound all that different. Chances are you'll want humbuckers, but you won't know which model is best.
If you can hear the difference and you want to get a certain classic jazz sound, you may be unhappy with anything but an archtop. Personally, I can't hear the difference reliably except when they're howling with feedback -- then I know it's a hollow body guitar.
Then, for me, it's ergonomics. You have to find a specific model with a good neck feel, good geometry for the body so that you can play comfortably and, this is important, pick near the sweet spot (where the 24th fret would be) -- although it actually varies with the note you're playing --12 frets up from the note seems to sound best). Archtops tend to be big and may not be comfortable. You may need a smaller one.
Then, you have to make sure you can get your sound. This is tough, since a cheaper guitar may be a pickup change away from sounding fabulous. But, there's no way to tell that in the store. Also, you can't tell what it's going to sound like with a band based on a demo in a store. You have to get a return privilege.
I'd suggest making sure the upper register sings out clearly -- a problem I've had with several guitars.
Now, to speak out of the other side of my mouth ... I bought my main instrument a D'Angelico EXDC having never seen or played one, knowing only that it was 24 3/4 and had a solid block under the bridge. I thougth it was going to be a backup, but it sounds much better than the Gibson L5S I had been playing.
And, then, after you get the perfect guitar, get back to us about searching for the perfect pick, amp, cable and effects. In my experience the amp makes more difference than the guitar.
Rick
thegoodwizard
Nov 26, 2009, 2:22:30 PM11/26/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, "optics22000" <optics22000@...> wrote:
>
LA is 2 hours away- can anyone recommend a guitar store there?
> The newspaper and Craigs List haven't been much use.
>
Cheers,
Doc Dosco
http://www.docdosco.com
Doc's Peerless guitar website
http://www.jazzguitarzone.com
mad...@ntlworld.com
Nov 27, 2009, 1:40:50 AM11/27/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
I am very impressed with Peerless guitars, I've been playing professionally for over 25 years (but having only just started finally getting into jazz) and as a guitar tech I see and get to play a lot of great or just plain expensive guitars. I have a Peerless Tonemaster Custom Junior (which I think is the only guitar I've bought new from a shop in the last 15 years!) and a Peerless Songbird (Tobacco finish). Both guitars are so far ahead of the competition its not funny, they are really great guitars and I'm looking at getting a Jazz City. BTW Peerless guitars are nearly impossible to find here in the UK and the new prices have gone around 50% in the last year or so.
David.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Woods
To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:24 PM
Subject: RE: [jazz_guitar] Re: Suggestions for how to buy a guitar
I second that Doc.
Over the Years I've played everything vintage and not vintage. I have to
say I'm completely happy with my Peerless Jazz City and Cremona. Another
thing everybody on this list should know is the acoustic sound of these
guitars keeps improving as you keep playing them. I don't know what kind of
lacquer they use, but it sure doesn't stop the sound from continually
evolving. The more I play them, the better they sound.
Dave Woods
_____
From: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jazz_...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of thegoodwizard
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 2:23 PM
To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [jazz_guitar] Re: Suggestions for how to buy a guitar
--- In jazz_guitar@ <mailto:jazz_guitar%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
Doc's Peerless guitar website
http://www.jazzguit <http://www.jazzguitarzone.com> arzone.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
David.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Woods
To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:24 PM
Subject: RE: [jazz_guitar] Re: Suggestions for how to buy a guitar
I second that Doc.
Over the Years I've played everything vintage and not vintage. I have to
say I'm completely happy with my Peerless Jazz City and Cremona. Another
thing everybody on this list should know is the acoustic sound of these
guitars keeps improving as you keep playing them. I don't know what kind of
lacquer they use, but it sure doesn't stop the sound from continually
evolving. The more I play them, the better they sound.
Dave Woods
_____
From: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jazz_...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of thegoodwizard
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 2:23 PM
To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [jazz_guitar] Re: Suggestions for how to buy a guitar
--- In jazz_guitar@ <mailto:jazz_guitar%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
"optics22000" <optics22000@...> wrote:
>
LA is 2 hours away- can anyone recommend a guitar store there?
> The newspaper and Craigs List haven't been much use.
>
You can always come by my place in LA some weekend and play any of the
Peerless guitars. If they are withinh your budget, you might find one you
like....
Cheers,
Doc Dosco
http://www.docdosco <http://www.docdosco.com> .com
>
LA is 2 hours away- can anyone recommend a guitar store there?
> The newspaper and Craigs List haven't been much use.
>
You can always come by my place in LA some weekend and play any of the
Peerless guitars. If they are withinh your budget, you might find one you
like....
Cheers,
Doc Dosco
Doc's Peerless guitar website
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mad...@ntlworld.com
Nov 27, 2009, 12:30:19 PM11/27/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
That is very good advice Jeff, most people buying budget guitars are simply not willing to pay for a setup, never mind a full fret dress which is a shame as the only thing that lets a lot of budget guitars down is the fretwork and general setup.
David.
David.
rjf622000
Nov 27, 2009, 2:02:10 PM11/27/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Some very good suggestions here with regards to scale and bout size (width). These are important for archtops. I also sit when I play and find a 17in bout can be a little uncomfortable. Especially if it has a 3in+ depth. Feels too much like a traditional acoustic which might suit some but not me.
You should also consider whether you are more interested in chord melody or single note/comping since scale can make a bit of a difference for some depending on your skill level and dexterity. But if your hand size is "average" then you can probably overcome this with a little time.
I have both a solid body Strat(setup for jazz - .12 flatwounds, 25.5in scale) and an archtop (24.75in scale, 16in bout, 2.75in depth) . Both sound great but slightly different.
Take your time - when I bought guitars a spend a lot of enjoyable hours in music stores!
Good Luck,
Rob
--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, "jp.bouffard" <jp.bouffard@...> wrote:
>
>
> I am similar to you...mostly a lurker on this group, and I am also not a professional or even an accomplished player. I'm an intermediate level player, bordering on advanced on a good day, and I play basically for my own amusement in my home. I play jazz and blues.
>
> I earn a good living and have spent the last 3 years tinkering with guitars and have bought several. I felt as though I wanted a real "jazz box" because when I'd see or listen to the music I liked best, it seemed that they were usually playing hollow body guitars. Here's what I have done...this isn't necessarily advice, but simply to show you my thinking so hopefully you can learn from me ;-)d
>
> 1. I bought a Gibson ES-335 about 18 months ago. I sold it about 6 months ago. It sounded great, and did the jazzy sound very well when played through my keyboard amp. But I play seated and the 335 was very uncomfortable to play seated.
>
> 2. I had a strat style guitar, and I changed the bridge pickup to a humbucker and put .11 strings on it. This sounded pretty jazzy...but I still wasn't happy.
>
> 3. I bought a Carvin guitar--custom made, reasonably priced. I bought a Holdsworth signature guitar, a hollow body. I didn't like this guitar for a number of reasons, but mainly it had a set up issue and I returned it to the factory for warranty repair, and I didn't feel like waiting a month for them to fix it so I elected to get their refund. This was probably a stupid decision as it was a beautiful guitar, but I had waited months for it to be built and was not willing to wait another month. When I got the refund, I bought the Gibson in #1 above...which of course I ended up selling.
>
> 4. I bought another Carvin about 4 months later because I liked the construction and quality of them so much. This time I bought a CT model (like a PRS, two-humbucker guitar). Again, a very nice instrument, and fairly jazzy, but still not what I considered a "real" jazz sound. Not saying I'm correct about that, it's just what my head kept telling me.
>
> 5. I felt I "needed" a hollow body, and ended up finding a used Gretsch Tennessee Rose model (6119), a 2007. It was mint condition and only about half the price of the Gibson. It was not your quintessential jazz guitar...it was a full hollow, but it has a bigsby bridge. Anyway, it was extremely comfortable to play and sounded great. I put .11 flatwound strings on it and it was definitely the jazziest sounding of my guitars...again, that's what my head told me, not necessarily my ears.
>
> 6. I've spent hours reading about jazz guitars, and have spent quite a bit of time at a local store which sells Eastman and Peerless jazz guitars. Part of me still wants a Peerless, like the Monarch, which is much like a Gibson L5.
>
> The only thing I can say that my ear tells me is truly different about a hollow body guitar, vis a vis the classic jazz sound (Wes, Grant Green, etc.), is that the decay profile of notes is different on a hollow body guitar than on a solid body. The timbral characteristics can be very similar, and are heavily influenced by the strings you use, the amp, the pickups, and your fingers mostly, but I've found that solid body guitars seem to have a tendency toward a more "even" note which sustains a bit longer...sort of like the tone of an organ versus that of a piano. Not quite that much difference, but you get the idea.
>
> I think much has to do with what you consider jazz--the specific sound you're after. Wayne Krantz plays beautiful stuff on a strat, and of course you mentioned Ted Greene's tele jazz sound.
>
> The adage that the tone is in your fingers is true, obviously, and the amp and pickups as well. I think the ergonomics of the guitar is very important to consider. I love playing my solid body guitars, but as someone who spent his first 25 years of guitar playing strumming these big, dreadnought style guitars, I am more comfortable with something that sits high on my leg, provides a place for my right arm to hang, etc.
>
> Scale is also really, really important, I think. Some people say that the difference of an inch or less in scale spread over 21-22 frets shouldn't mean much, but I think it's noticeable. If you have large hands and fingers, you might find that playing a shorter scale instrument will have you up "on your tippy toes" when playing higher on the neck. Alternately, if you have small hands, you might find a 25.5" scale fender difficult for stretches needed for some chords you'll want to play.
>
> My advice to you can be summarized in 2 points:
>
> 1. There is not "correct" answer to your question. "Jazz" is different things to different people, and people play jazz beautifully on many different types of guitar. It's a matter of preference.
> 2. You cannot learn what your preference is without playing guitars for a while. I suggest buying guitars and playing them for a while to really decide. An hour or two testing in a store doesn't do it. You need it in your house with your stuff so you can really learn if you like it or not. This costs money; you can always sell things, but you lose a little $ doing so. On the other hand, I think it's worth it to spend time and money this way. Plus it's fun.
>
> The fact that you asked the question makes me think you should buy a hollow body jazz guitar of some sort, get it set up well, and play with it for a while. After a few months, you'll know. I suggest trying to find a Peerless guitar. For about $1000 you can get something really, really nice. See how you like it. If you don't just sell it (maybe I'll buy it from you ;-) ), and try a telecaster.
>
> Good luck.
You should also consider whether you are more interested in chord melody or single note/comping since scale can make a bit of a difference for some depending on your skill level and dexterity. But if your hand size is "average" then you can probably overcome this with a little time.
I have both a solid body Strat(setup for jazz - .12 flatwounds, 25.5in scale) and an archtop (24.75in scale, 16in bout, 2.75in depth) . Both sound great but slightly different.
Take your time - when I bought guitars a spend a lot of enjoyable hours in music stores!
Good Luck,
Rob
--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, "jp.bouffard" <jp.bouffard@...> wrote:
>
>
> I am similar to you...mostly a lurker on this group, and I am also not a professional or even an accomplished player. I'm an intermediate level player, bordering on advanced on a good day, and I play basically for my own amusement in my home. I play jazz and blues.
>
> I earn a good living and have spent the last 3 years tinkering with guitars and have bought several. I felt as though I wanted a real "jazz box" because when I'd see or listen to the music I liked best, it seemed that they were usually playing hollow body guitars. Here's what I have done...this isn't necessarily advice, but simply to show you my thinking so hopefully you can learn from me ;-)d
>
> 1. I bought a Gibson ES-335 about 18 months ago. I sold it about 6 months ago. It sounded great, and did the jazzy sound very well when played through my keyboard amp. But I play seated and the 335 was very uncomfortable to play seated.
>
> 2. I had a strat style guitar, and I changed the bridge pickup to a humbucker and put .11 strings on it. This sounded pretty jazzy...but I still wasn't happy.
>
> 3. I bought a Carvin guitar--custom made, reasonably priced. I bought a Holdsworth signature guitar, a hollow body. I didn't like this guitar for a number of reasons, but mainly it had a set up issue and I returned it to the factory for warranty repair, and I didn't feel like waiting a month for them to fix it so I elected to get their refund. This was probably a stupid decision as it was a beautiful guitar, but I had waited months for it to be built and was not willing to wait another month. When I got the refund, I bought the Gibson in #1 above...which of course I ended up selling.
>
> 4. I bought another Carvin about 4 months later because I liked the construction and quality of them so much. This time I bought a CT model (like a PRS, two-humbucker guitar). Again, a very nice instrument, and fairly jazzy, but still not what I considered a "real" jazz sound. Not saying I'm correct about that, it's just what my head kept telling me.
>
> 5. I felt I "needed" a hollow body, and ended up finding a used Gretsch Tennessee Rose model (6119), a 2007. It was mint condition and only about half the price of the Gibson. It was not your quintessential jazz guitar...it was a full hollow, but it has a bigsby bridge. Anyway, it was extremely comfortable to play and sounded great. I put .11 flatwound strings on it and it was definitely the jazziest sounding of my guitars...again, that's what my head told me, not necessarily my ears.
>
> 6. I've spent hours reading about jazz guitars, and have spent quite a bit of time at a local store which sells Eastman and Peerless jazz guitars. Part of me still wants a Peerless, like the Monarch, which is much like a Gibson L5.
>
> The only thing I can say that my ear tells me is truly different about a hollow body guitar, vis a vis the classic jazz sound (Wes, Grant Green, etc.), is that the decay profile of notes is different on a hollow body guitar than on a solid body. The timbral characteristics can be very similar, and are heavily influenced by the strings you use, the amp, the pickups, and your fingers mostly, but I've found that solid body guitars seem to have a tendency toward a more "even" note which sustains a bit longer...sort of like the tone of an organ versus that of a piano. Not quite that much difference, but you get the idea.
>
> I think much has to do with what you consider jazz--the specific sound you're after. Wayne Krantz plays beautiful stuff on a strat, and of course you mentioned Ted Greene's tele jazz sound.
>
> The adage that the tone is in your fingers is true, obviously, and the amp and pickups as well. I think the ergonomics of the guitar is very important to consider. I love playing my solid body guitars, but as someone who spent his first 25 years of guitar playing strumming these big, dreadnought style guitars, I am more comfortable with something that sits high on my leg, provides a place for my right arm to hang, etc.
>
> Scale is also really, really important, I think. Some people say that the difference of an inch or less in scale spread over 21-22 frets shouldn't mean much, but I think it's noticeable. If you have large hands and fingers, you might find that playing a shorter scale instrument will have you up "on your tippy toes" when playing higher on the neck. Alternately, if you have small hands, you might find a 25.5" scale fender difficult for stretches needed for some chords you'll want to play.
>
> My advice to you can be summarized in 2 points:
>
> 1. There is not "correct" answer to your question. "Jazz" is different things to different people, and people play jazz beautifully on many different types of guitar. It's a matter of preference.
> 2. You cannot learn what your preference is without playing guitars for a while. I suggest buying guitars and playing them for a while to really decide. An hour or two testing in a store doesn't do it. You need it in your house with your stuff so you can really learn if you like it or not. This costs money; you can always sell things, but you lose a little $ doing so. On the other hand, I think it's worth it to spend time and money this way. Plus it's fun.
>
> The fact that you asked the question makes me think you should buy a hollow body jazz guitar of some sort, get it set up well, and play with it for a while. After a few months, you'll know. I suggest trying to find a Peerless guitar. For about $1000 you can get something really, really nice. See how you like it. If you don't just sell it (maybe I'll buy it from you ;-) ), and try a telecaster.
>
> Good luck.
Chris Smart
Nov 27, 2009, 10:29:44 AM11/27/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Does anybody sell them in Canada yet?
And, how do they stack up against Eastman?
I've been looking at the Eastman TM185.
chris
And, how do they stack up against Eastman?
I've been looking at the Eastman TM185.
chris
Dave Woods
Nov 26, 2009, 6:24:23 PM11/26/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
I second that Doc.
Over the Years I've played everything vintage and not vintage. I have to
say I'm completely happy with my Peerless Jazz City and Cremona. Another
thing everybody on this list should know is the acoustic sound of these
guitars keeps improving as you keep playing them. I don't know what kind of
lacquer they use, but it sure doesn't stop the sound from continually
evolving. The more I play them, the better they sound.
Dave Woods
_____
From: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jazz_...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of thegoodwizard
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 2:23 PM
To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [jazz_guitar] Re: Suggestions for how to buy a guitar
--- In jazz_guitar@ <mailto:jazz_guitar%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
Over the Years I've played everything vintage and not vintage. I have to
say I'm completely happy with my Peerless Jazz City and Cremona. Another
thing everybody on this list should know is the acoustic sound of these
guitars keeps improving as you keep playing them. I don't know what kind of
lacquer they use, but it sure doesn't stop the sound from continually
evolving. The more I play them, the better they sound.
Dave Woods
_____
From: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jazz_...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of thegoodwizard
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 2:23 PM
To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [jazz_guitar] Re: Suggestions for how to buy a guitar
--- In jazz_guitar@ <mailto:jazz_guitar%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
"optics22000" <optics22000@...> wrote:
>
LA is 2 hours away- can anyone recommend a guitar store there?
> The newspaper and Craigs List haven't been much use.
>
You can always come by my place in LA some weekend and play any of the
Peerless guitars. If they are withinh your budget, you might find one you
like....
Cheers,
Doc Dosco
http://www.docdosco <http://www.docdosco.com> .com
>
LA is 2 hours away- can anyone recommend a guitar store there?
> The newspaper and Craigs List haven't been much use.
>
You can always come by my place in LA some weekend and play any of the
Peerless guitars. If they are withinh your budget, you might find one you
like....
Cheers,
Doc Dosco
Doc's Peerless guitar website
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jp.bouffard
Nov 27, 2009, 7:30:18 AM11/27/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
I am similar to you...mostly a lurker on this group, and I am also not a professional or even an accomplished player. I'm an intermediate level player, bordering on advanced on a good day, and I play basically for my own amusement in my home. I play jazz and blues.
I earn a good living and have spent the last 3 years tinkering with guitars and have bought several. I felt as though I wanted a real "jazz box" because when I'd see or listen to the music I liked best, it seemed that they were usually playing hollow body guitars. Here's what I have done...this isn't necessarily advice, but simply to show you my thinking so hopefully you can learn from me ;-)d
1. I bought a Gibson ES-335 about 18 months ago. I sold it about 6 months ago. It sounded great, and did the jazzy sound very well when played through my keyboard amp. But I play seated and the 335 was very uncomfortable to play seated.
2. I had a strat style guitar, and I changed the bridge pickup to a humbucker and put .11 strings on it. This sounded pretty jazzy...but I still wasn't happy.
3. I bought a Carvin guitar--custom made, reasonably priced. I bought a Holdsworth signature guitar, a hollow body. I didn't like this guitar for a number of reasons, but mainly it had a set up issue and I returned it to the factory for warranty repair, and I didn't feel like waiting a month for them to fix it so I elected to get their refund. This was probably a stupid decision as it was a beautiful guitar, but I had waited months for it to be built and was not willing to wait another month. When I got the refund, I bought the Gibson in #1 above...which of course I ended up selling.
4. I bought another Carvin about 4 months later because I liked the construction and quality of them so much. This time I bought a CT model (like a PRS, two-humbucker guitar). Again, a very nice instrument, and fairly jazzy, but still not what I considered a "real" jazz sound. Not saying I'm correct about that, it's just what my head kept telling me.
5. I felt I "needed" a hollow body, and ended up finding a used Gretsch Tennessee Rose model (6119), a 2007. It was mint condition and only about half the price of the Gibson. It was not your quintessential jazz guitar...it was a full hollow, but it has a bigsby bridge. Anyway, it was extremely comfortable to play and sounded great. I put .11 flatwound strings on it and it was definitely the jazziest sounding of my guitars...again, that's what my head told me, not necessarily my ears.
6. I've spent hours reading about jazz guitars, and have spent quite a bit of time at a local store which sells Eastman and Peerless jazz guitars. Part of me still wants a Peerless, like the Monarch, which is much like a Gibson L5.
The only thing I can say that my ear tells me is truly different about a hollow body guitar, vis a vis the classic jazz sound (Wes, Grant Green, etc.), is that the decay profile of notes is different on a hollow body guitar than on a solid body. The timbral characteristics can be very similar, and are heavily influenced by the strings you use, the amp, the pickups, and your fingers mostly, but I've found that solid body guitars seem to have a tendency toward a more "even" note which sustains a bit longer...sort of like the tone of an organ versus that of a piano. Not quite that much difference, but you get the idea.
I think much has to do with what you consider jazz--the specific sound you're after. Wayne Krantz plays beautiful stuff on a strat, and of course you mentioned Ted Greene's tele jazz sound.
The adage that the tone is in your fingers is true, obviously, and the amp and pickups as well. I think the ergonomics of the guitar is very important to consider. I love playing my solid body guitars, but as someone who spent his first 25 years of guitar playing strumming these big, dreadnought style guitars, I am more comfortable with something that sits high on my leg, provides a place for my right arm to hang, etc.
Scale is also really, really important, I think. Some people say that the difference of an inch or less in scale spread over 21-22 frets shouldn't mean much, but I think it's noticeable. If you have large hands and fingers, you might find that playing a shorter scale instrument will have you up "on your tippy toes" when playing higher on the neck. Alternately, if you have small hands, you might find a 25.5" scale fender difficult for stretches needed for some chords you'll want to play.
My advice to you can be summarized in 2 points:
1. There is not "correct" answer to your question. "Jazz" is different things to different people, and people play jazz beautifully on many different types of guitar. It's a matter of preference.
2. You cannot learn what your preference is without playing guitars for a while. I suggest buying guitars and playing them for a while to really decide. An hour or two testing in a store doesn't do it. You need it in your house with your stuff so you can really learn if you like it or not. This costs money; you can always sell things, but you lose a little $ doing so. On the other hand, I think it's worth it to spend time and money this way. Plus it's fun.
The fact that you asked the question makes me think you should buy a hollow body jazz guitar of some sort, get it set up well, and play with it for a while. After a few months, you'll know. I suggest trying to find a Peerless guitar. For about $1000 you can get something really, really nice. See how you like it. If you don't just sell it (maybe I'll buy it from you ;-) ), and try a telecaster.
Good luck.
Ron Becker
Nov 27, 2009, 2:51:28 PM11/27/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
One thing about sitting and playing. It may be more comfortable to
play the 17" size if you rest the base bout between your legs as
opposed to the more casual treble bout hanging over your right thigh.
It's how they recommend holding a CG in all the lesson lit. It's
taking me some time to get used to my 17, it rests against my zipper
area from coronary bypass surgery. But so far the sound and feel is
worth the adjustment.
Ron
Living and playing outside the box.
http://www.myspace.com/ron45becker
play the 17" size if you rest the base bout between your legs as
opposed to the more casual treble bout hanging over your right thigh.
It's how they recommend holding a CG in all the lesson lit. It's
taking me some time to get used to my 17, it rests against my zipper
area from coronary bypass surgery. But so far the sound and feel is
worth the adjustment.
Ron
Living and playing outside the box.
http://www.myspace.com/ron45becker
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
houseofcharm2
Nov 27, 2009, 11:14:09 AM11/27/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
All great replies. Some specific models suggestions. Starting off cheaply, an epiphone 175, used even, and have it set up to taste for starters; Epiphone Joe Pass, or any recent Epiphone archtop and go with a complete setup, fret dressing, bridge leveling, etc. That's a good way to get a feel for a basic jazzbox. If it works out for you and you have the lolly, step up to the corresponding Gibson or really whatever suits your fancy.
As has been said, you can play jazz on nearly anything with a good sized string. I also love running in my Rockport wingtips(really!) but if you want the whole package experience starting out, try a cheap but decent archtop-they are the kings og guitardom.
Just my recessionary 2c.
Jeff
Rod Ellard
Nov 27, 2009, 1:27:02 PM11/27/09
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
I don't think you can go too far wrong with one of the basic Ibanez AK or AF models, expecially if you buy off of, for example, Craigslist. I found an AK75 and an AF75 and would have like to buy them both. All either really needed was a fresh set of strings. ~$350.
R
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