[jazz_guitar] Invention of the vacuum tube

[JVeg...@aol.com]

Interesting:

www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2009/11/1116fleming-thermionic-valve-vacuum-t
ube

Cheers,
JV

Juan Vega



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jazz_guitar/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jazz_guitar/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
jazz_guit...@yahoogroups.com
jazz_guitar-...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
jazz_guitar...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Jay Mitchell]

JVeg...@aol.com wrote:

> Interesting:
>
> www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2009/11/1116fleming-thermionic-valve-vacuum-tube

Fleming only got part way there. His invention was a diode and could only
rectify. It did not produce voltage gain.

Lee de Forest invented and patented the triode (called the "Audion" in the
patent). See: http://www.leedeforest.org/inventor.html .

Jay

[Ron Becker]

I was just back at the link to the blue bossa page and tried to
contact the poster of the video. On going back to the page with the
video it started automatically and the commercial I was referring to
was no longer there. Maybe there were two different links. This one
just has a logo that went by in about a second. That's not what I was
bitching about. The one I saw was like a regular commercial about 30
seconds in length. I didn't have the cans on so I don't know what
they were selling. The visual was bad enough.

Ron
Living and playing outside the box.

http://www.myspace.com/ron45becker




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Arnold Millard]

The issue is whether you believe in science or not. If a scientist puts forth evolution as an explanation of certain phenomena, it is subject to test. It can be proven wrong. Those who disbelieve evolution, however, do not put forth a falsifiable explanation. There is no possible way to falsify the proposition that a god or a so-called intelligent agent is responsible. It is faith. It is not science. I can not imagine a scientist arguing that a discussion of religion must incorporate a discussion of science. Therefore it is nothing short of ludicrous that evolution deniers should receive any consideration in a discussion of science.

[JamesM]

JV,
I have committed some doozies and don'tsies in this hear internal hard drive of life, but this shit here is seriously out. I would suppose that those who do not believe in evolution (No-it-u-love) might be more compassionate... at the very least. Shouldn't one who has thought everything all the way trough and come to unalterable conclusions at least have compassion for lesser brethren. Jeeze.
How in the world did you get your fine self in this brouhaha, JV?
I am for anybody who's karma ain't run all over their dogma. And sometimes dogma's do run under karma's and the dogma's don't get up. "All we need is love: da ta daten da." I realize these silly koans don't appeal to you personally, JV, but sometimes, por moi, they are the only words that make any sense.
JV, all the best to you in the noble attempt be yourself. ;-)
What would Wes say?
"Love Walked In, Nidek Law Evol." (Well, maybe... it was more likely JS Bach.)
Sincerely,
Evol Deklawni (josh, I love this backwards/inside out thing. We can be Leonardo's in miniture!
(jim)

[Chris Mullin]

"I would guess that those that do not believe in evolution
are at least more courteous and less arrogant ..."

This is way OT, but I can't let it pass. Your "guess" is
way,
way off the mark, my friend. Too many of the folks you are
referring to are grounded in fear more than anything else,
and
this manifests itself in ways that are absolutely not
"courteous"
and often "arrogant". Doesn't apply exclusively to
evolution,
either, but to any tenet, belief, social more, etc, that
doesn't
hew to their narrow, fearful view of the world. There's
totally,
absolutely, no "fun" in "fundamentalist". Trust me.

--------------------------

Juan

This is way OT but YOU are the one that brought the topic
up. I was offended by your suggestion that those that don't
believe in evolution aren't intelligent... I have enjoyed
many of your posts in the past and perhaps out of respect
for you I should have kept my yap shut... however...*I*
could not let *YOUR* remark pass so I responded

It now appears that after implying that I am not intelligent
you now wish to cast me as being discourteous, arrogant and
living in fear. I assure you that none of these things are
true. I'm not sure what you think I may fear but my beliefs
are not based on fear. I find it somewhat ironic that were I
to think about it I might consider your beliefs to be based
on fear.

I have never been discourteous or arrogant to you or any one
else on this list. I don't post very often but when I do
post I don't insult peoples intelligence. Have you looked at
the alternatives to evolution? You seem to have the narrower
view and are trying to coerce others into your belief by
insulting them and then you add insult to injury with the
suggestion that *THEY* are arrogant, lack intelligence, and
are discourteous and fearful.

I dunno perhaps I overreacted to your initial comment...
perhaps there was a hidden smiley face in there someplace
that I didn't see... judging by your follow up statements
that seems to be unlikely but ... who knows.
.


Chris

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ron Murray]

Well, the authority of science is at least provable at some point,
but that's a nice straw man you've built there.

.
On Nov 20, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Angelo wrote:

> I don't "believe" in either theory, but I do know that neither camp
> has the
> exclusivity on arrogance. The creationists back up their arrogance
> with the
> authority of god, while the evolutionists back theirs with the
> authority of
> science...
> Both are just theories and neither has been proved yet (at least to my
> satisfaction), but that doesn't stop the arrogance and name-calling
> from
> flowing freely...
> Juan is correct...
>
> Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use
> .

[Ron Murray]

Sorry, Brian, you're really wrong on the facts here. The founders
were not Christians by any means.

On Nov 20, 2009, at 9:07 PM, Brian Kelly wrote:

> I don't know why I am replying to this either other than to say
> that I really could care less what anyone believes is the correct
> history of life on earth. Both sides are allowed to promote their
> theories and the rest of us are free to decide which one we want to
> believe in. I went to Catholic school up until the eighth grade and
> evolution was taught there right alongside of evolution. The nuns
> answered the problems with dates and events of the creation theory
> by pointing out that there were numerous problems with some of the
> dating of times and events in the bible. For example Moses I think
> was said to have lived 500 years or something like that so the idea
> that evolution had happened in a period of 5,000 years was
> unlikely. Her explanation was that like so many events the times
> and dates implied in the bible are not necessarily fact but a
> matter of faith. I'm good with that.
>
> Just for the record I am not in the slightest a Christian in any
> religious sense. I have never at all been attracted to that
> religion and so my argument here is not a matter of my own personal
> religious views. My problem is that I am getting kind of tired of
> seeing people kick Christians around all of the time. In many cases
> I think this is nothing more than bigotry spelled with a capitol
> "B". No one ever recalls that it was Christians who wrote the
> America Constitution and it was Christians who gave us all freedom
> of speech and the separation of church and state. Incredibly
> advanced political concepts at the time.

[JVeg...@aol.com]

"I would guess that those that do not believe in evolution
are at least more courteous and less arrogant ..."

This is way OT, but I can't let it pass. Your "guess" is way,
way off the mark, my friend. Too many of the folks you are
referring to are grounded in fear more than anything else, and
this manifests itself in ways that are absolutely not "courteous"
and often "arrogant". Doesn't apply exclusively to evolution,
either, but to any tenet, belief, social more, etc, that doesn't
hew to their narrow, fearful view of the world. There's totally,
absolutely, no "fun" in "fundamentalist". Trust me.

Cheers,
JV

Juan Vega

[Chris Smart]

*yawn*

[Ron Murray]

Deists aren't Christians. I know that you won't deal with that, so
that's my last word on the subject. You are wrong, though.

On Nov 21, 2009, at 1:27 AM, Brian Kelly wrote:

> Ron,
>
> Sorry, you couldn't be any more mistaken on this subject. The idea
> that the
> founders weren't Christians and heavily influenced by Christian
> thought is
> ludicrous. Today it is well documented that most of the original
> signers of
> the Declaration of Independence were Freemasons. You can't get much
> more
> Christian than that.
>
> Thomas Jefferson was not the most committed Christian there ever
> was and had
> other religious views as well but in general Christianity was the
> dominant
> religious view and practice of the founding fathers. As it is the
> constitution is primarily a non-religious, political document and
> other than
> protecting all religious thought there are no other religious
> considerations. Up until about twenty years I was a huge fan of Thomas
> Jefferson and read everything about him that was in print and in
> all that
> time I don't remember ever reading anything contrary to what I
> stated in my
> first response.
>
> As I said earlier I am not much into Christianity so I don't want
> to go on
> for very long defending it so if you have a comment about any of
> this I may
> just let it go at that.
>
> Brian Kelly

[Ron Becker]

Nope the kicking around began in ernest when they started throwing
their weight around outside the walls of their church. Got nothing to
do the bigotry. It's as Chris just said. Mythology has no place in
law making.

Ron
Living and playing outside the box.

http://www.myspace.com/ron45becker

> As far as history goes I am more interested in who Thelonius Monk
> was listening to when he was an up and coming developing musician
> than whether or not Adam and Eve had a pet dinosaur.
>
>
> Brian Kelly
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: rguitarjj
> To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 6:11 PM
> Subject: [jazz_guitar] Re: Invention of the vacuum tube
>
> I don't know why I'm replying to this ...
>
> I accept evolution as a scientific theory which is backed up by a
> substantial body of evidence.
>
> I accept creationism as what its adherents say it is, which is a
> faith based view of the world. I have noticed that there are many
> different faiths in the world, with conflicting views. Members of
> different faiths may respect each other's views, but they make no
> effort to reconcile them. They do not require observation to
> bolster faith.
>
> Scientists are encouraged to find flaws in scientific theories and
> do attempt to reconcile the theories with real world observations.
>
> They are two different systems of dealing with reality. I have no
> problem with faith based views when they are held privately. I have
> no interest, though, in dealing with faith based views when they
> are used as a justification for changing something public.
>
> If that seems radical, bear in mind that it is one of the founding
> principles of our country.
>
> --- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Mullin"
> <nhsixstringer@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm willing to bet there are lots of 'intelligent' people on
> > the list that do not accept evolution as a fact. I
> > personally do not imply that those that do believe in
> > evolution cannot be intelligent.
> >
> > Over and above intelligence I would guess that those that do

> > not believe in evolution are at least more courteous and

> > less arrogant than at least some that do accept the
> > evolution theory.

[Dub Deklawni]

Haven' you noticed? Members of this list would rather talk about anything other than 'Jazz Guitar'

Go ahead; throw a topic in the water and watch us rise to the bait.


Ciao.

Dub

On 2009-11-20, at 19:31, "tomreynolds63" <tomrey...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Guys, Please stay on topic - jazz guitar.

Discussions about religion and politics sound be done elsewhere.

Tom





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






__________________________________________________________________
The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/

[Will]

Well that is probably true of all types of opinions
in all areas. Some people are generally more courteous
than others no matter what they believe.

Will

>
> Over and above intelligence I would guess that those that do
> not believe in evolution are at least more courteous and
> less arrogant than at least some that do accept the
> evolution theory.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Kevin]

--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, JVegaTrio@... wrote:
>
> Interesting:
>
> www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2009/11/1116fleming-thermionic-valve-v
> Juan Vega
>

Juan,
Try this related article. Sir Fleming was a CHRISTian. I had just read this article right before I saw your post, and thought, "Hmmm... radios, TV's, but most important of all: guitar amps!"

http://www.icr.org/article/4984/

[JVeg...@aol.com]

Hey, thanks! I find it fascinating that someone so intelligent could
disbelieve evolution, but to each his own. Humans are nothing if
not creatures of contradictions...

Cheers,
JV

Juan Vega


In a message dated 11/19/2009 6:17:09 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

kevr...@yahoo.com writes:

Juan,
Try this related article.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Will]

Perhaps he was intelligent enough to
not believe in evolution.

Because millions of people believe something
doesn`t make it true.

Will

--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, JVegaTrio@... wrote:
>

> Hey, thanks! I find it fascinating that someone so intelligent could
> disbelieve evolution, but to each his own. Humans are nothing if
> not creatures of contradictions...
>
> Cheers,
> JV
>
> Juan Vega

[Chris Mullin]

I'm willing to bet there are lots of 'intelligent' people on
the list that do not accept evolution as a fact. I
personally do not imply that those that do believe in
evolution cannot be intelligent.

Over and above intelligence I would guess that those that do
not believe in evolution are at least more courteous and
less arrogant than at least some that do accept the
evolution theory.

[Jeff Shirkey]

> Both are just theories and neither has been proved yet (at least to my
> satisfaction),

And you say that based upon your many years of experience as a
scientist? Or no? If you ask me, it makes all the difference in the
world.

Jeff

[Angelo]

I don't "believe" in either theory, but I do know that neither camp has the
exclusivity on arrogance. The creationists back up their arrogance with the
authority of god, while the evolutionists back theirs with the authority of
science...

Both are just theories and neither has been proved yet (at least to my

satisfaction), but that doesn't stop the arrogance and name-calling from
flowing freely...
Juan is correct...

[guit...@comcast.net]

> I'm gonna ask y'all to stop, and get back to things like what kind of strings Ben Franklin used.<


I believe he employed a used metal "B" string for his famous kite/lightning experiment. He got it from his manservant, an early blues guitarist by the name of Tobias Huffner.
Brad

[tomreynolds63]

Guys, Please stay on topic - jazz guitar.

Discussions about religion and politics sound be done elsewhere.

Tom

[Brian Kelly]

Ron,

Sorry, you couldn't be any more mistaken on this subject. The idea that the
founders weren't Christians and heavily influenced by Christian thought is
ludicrous. Today it is well documented that most of the original signers of
the Declaration of Independence were Freemasons. You can't get much more
Christian than that.

Thomas Jefferson was not the most committed Christian there ever was and had
other religious views as well but in general Christianity was the dominant
religious view and practice of the founding fathers. As it is the
constitution is primarily a non-religious, political document and other than
protecting all religious thought there are no other religious
considerations. Up until about twenty years I was a huge fan of Thomas
Jefferson and read everything about him that was in print and in all that
time I don't remember ever reading anything contrary to what I stated in my
first response.

As I said earlier I am not much into Christianity so I don't want to go on
for very long defending it so if you have a comment about any of this I may
just let it go at that.

Brian Kelly


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Murray" <rmu...@snet.net>
To: <jazz_...@yahoogroups.com>

> Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest . Unsubscribe . Terms of Use

[Jeff Shirkey]

>
> Her explanation was that like so many events the times and dates
> implied in the bible are not necessarily fact but a matter of
> faith. I'm good with that.

Does anyone want to take this off list? I am tempted to chime in more,
but, of course, this stuff has no place on this list in the first place.

Jeff

[rguitarjj]

I don't know why I'm replying to this ...

I accept evolution as a scientific theory which is backed up by a substantial body of evidence.

I accept creationism as what its adherents say it is, which is a faith based view of the world. I have noticed that there are many different faiths in the world, with conflicting views. Members of different faiths may respect each other's views, but they make no effort to reconcile them. They do not require observation to bolster faith.

Scientists are encouraged to find flaws in scientific theories and do attempt to reconcile the theories with real world observations.

They are two different systems of dealing with reality. I have no problem with faith based views when they are held privately. I have no interest, though, in dealing with faith based views when they are used as a justification for changing something public.

If that seems radical, bear in mind that it is one of the founding principles of our country.





--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Mullin" <nhsixstringer@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>

[rguitarjj]

Best wishes for your son's progress.

Rick

--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, JVegaTrio@... wrote:
>

> I feel somewhat responsible for this, so I'm gonna ask y'all

> to stop, and get back to things like what kind of strings

> Ben Franklin used. Seriously, it's too easy to get sidetracked
> on stuff that doesn't pertain, and I apologize for my lack of
> good judgment.
>
> This morning, I checked my email before heading down to
> San Diego to see my son, who had a kidney removed
> Wednesday. I obviously had other things on my mind...
>
> I have a very short fuse for people who claim to be "of
> faith", and act in the quite the opposite manner, and that's
> what I tried to convey in my post, pretty poorly. My post
> wasn't directed at anybody specifically; I consider everybody
> here a friend, and whether or not we agree on things doesn't
> really figure in that estimation.
>
> This is a good forum, and I as a moderator shouldn't go
> off inappropriately, so let's get back on topic.
>
> Those of you who haven't yet listened to Petri's tracks should
> do so, they're nicely done!
>
> Cheers,
> JV
>
> Juan Vega

[Bob Hansmann]

Juan,
All prayers and wishes for your son's successful recovery.

Bobby

[Ron Becker]

Well said Chris and more diplomatic than I would be. I took most of
my replies on this subject to private emails. I appreciate your
thoughts. And you have nailed the central issue. It's the grab for
power that will bring them down. I hope. Many of the founding fathers
were dead set against religion as a part of govt. Truth be told, we
one nation under materialism.

Ron
Living and playing outside the box.

http://www.myspace.com/ron45becker

[JVeg...@aol.com]

I feel somewhat responsible for this, so I'm gonna ask y'all
to stop, and get back to things like what kind of strings
Ben Franklin used. Seriously, it's too easy to get sidetracked
on stuff that doesn't pertain, and I apologize for my lack of
good judgment.

This morning, I checked my email before heading down to
San Diego to see my son, who had a kidney removed
Wednesday. I obviously had other things on my mind...

I have a very short fuse for people who claim to be "of
faith", and act in the quite the opposite manner, and that's
what I tried to convey in my post, pretty poorly. My post
wasn't directed at anybody specifically; I consider everybody
here a friend, and whether or not we agree on things doesn't
really figure in that estimation.

This is a good forum, and I as a moderator shouldn't go
off inappropriately, so let's get back on topic.

Those of you who haven't yet listened to Petri's tracks should
do so, they're nicely done!

Cheers,
JV

Juan Vega

[Ron Becker]

> If you ask me, it makes all the difference in the
> world.
>

Sure does Jeff. Right on. Doubt is the chief product of the people
Doc was talking about today. It's very wide spread in certain
demographic entities. Throw in a little guilt and you could start
your own,.... nevermind. Another place another time.

Ron
Living and playing outside the box.

http://www.myspace.com/ron45becker

On Nov 20, 2009, at 4:29 PM, Jeff Shirkey wrote:

>
>
> > Both are just theories and neither has been proved yet (at least
> to my
> > satisfaction),
>
> And you say that based upon your many years of experience as a
> scientist? Or no?
>

> Jeff

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Brian Kelly]

I don't know why I am replying to this either other than to say that I really could care less what anyone believes is the correct history of life on earth. Both sides are allowed to promote their theories and the rest of us are free to decide which one we want to believe in. I went to Catholic school up until the eighth grade and evolution was taught there right alongside of evolution. The nuns answered the problems with dates and events of the creation theory by pointing out that there were numerous problems with some of the dating of times and events in the bible. For example Moses I think was said to have lived 500 years or something like that so the idea that evolution had happened in a period of 5,000 years was unlikely. Her explanation was that like so many events the times and dates implied in the bible are not necessarily fact but a matter of faith. I'm good with that.

Just for the record I am not in the slightest a Christian in any religious sense. I have never at all been attracted to that religion and so my argument here is not a matter of my own personal religious views. My problem is that I am getting kind of tired of seeing people kick Christians around all of the time. In many cases I think this is nothing more than bigotry spelled with a capitol "B". No one ever recalls that it was Christians who wrote the America Constitution and it was Christians who gave us all freedom of speech and the separation of church and state. Incredibly advanced political concepts at the time.

As far as history goes I am more interested in who Thelonius Monk was listening to when he was an up and coming developing musician than whether or not Adam and Eve had a pet dinosaur.

Brian Kelly


----- Original Message -----
From: rguitarjj
To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com

[Chris Smart]

Ok, I wasn't going to contribute to this but:

"The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian
doctrine." George Washington

"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty
gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
Thomas Jefferson

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by
the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the
Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of, My own mind is
my own church."
Thomas Paine

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
Thomas Jefferson

"The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I
could never give assent to the long, complicated statements Of
Christian
dogma."
Abraham Lincoln

Anyway, can we please get back to discussing music, at the very least?

Or, if we're going to go right off the rails, heck, let's throw
abortion, gun control, same sex marriage, healthcare reform, and
euthanasia into the discussion somehow. *LOL*

[chasjazzbo]

Hello Juan,

I just wanted to wish a speedy recovery to you son.

Take care,
-Chas

--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, JVegaTrio@... wrote:
>

> <snip>

>
> This morning, I checked my email before heading down to
> San Diego to see my son, who had a kidney removed
> Wednesday. I obviously had other things on my mind...
>

> <snip>

[Will]

Like the recent threads on baseball, this thread
will die it`s own death.

Also - as with sport - people rarely change
their view.

Will

[Will]

I have just got home from watching
John Williams and John Etheridge together
in concert.

I was going to post some detailed info about
their technical expertise and many other
aspects of a truly great classical/jazz fusion
concert.

However, my enthusiasm drained away when I read
the latest posts.

So, you stick to your infantile squabbles and
I will go and practise my guitar.

Will