[jazz_guitar] Hofner JS Verithin
v_lamadieu
I am thinking about getting a Hofner John Stowell Verithin. Do any of
you use this model and if so what are your opinions. On my end, I play
a lot of fingerstyle jazz as well as with a pick. Tonewise, I lean
towards the darker tone players (i.e. Pat Martino; Jim Hall;etc..) I
am using a polytone megabrute and this is what I am planning to run the
Verithin through.
Thanks for your help!
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wckoek
enquiry here and my research from the web, this model seemed to sounded
thin. It was a little dissaponting as the specs looks promising.
Regards
--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, "v_lamadieu" <v_lamadieu@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am thinking about getting a Hofner John Stowell Verithin. Do any
of
> you use this model and if so what are your opinions. On my end, I
play
> a lot of fingerstyle jazz as well as with a pick. Tonewise, I lean
> towards the darker tone players (i.e. Pat Martino; Jim Hall;etc..) I
> am using a polytone megabrute and this is what I am planning to run
the
> Verithin through.
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
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Larry Thrift
warm jazz sound. I initially set it up with D'addario 12ga half-rounds but
they seem to be just a little to bright for me. I run my guitar through a
30 watt Marshall JTM30 tube amp.
This same amp with a Aria FA 71 with stock pickups and a Vantage 335 copy
with Seymour Duncan Phat Cat P-90 pickups is just awesome. Not so with the
Verythin yet. Perhaps a set of flatwounds will help.
FWIT the SD Phat Cats are phenominal pickups. This was my first excursion
into swapping pups and I am truly delighted with the outcome. Warm with a
bite is the best way to describe them.
LarryT
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Sean Williams
mixed between liking the electronics of Very Thin
Classic versus the looks and tone of the JS Model. I
chose the latter and I am very pleased with my
desision. I believe the pickup is a Kent Armstrong.
It's not a full sized PAF or a minibucker either but
in between. It has a nice tone even though it is not
as full sounding as a Gibson PAF. Unplugged, and as
thin as they are they have good acoustic qualities but
still sound great for fusion.
Contact Jeff at www.jhalemusic.com and he can give
some more insight.
--- v_lamadieu <v_lam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am thinking about getting a Hofner John Stowell
> Verithin. Do any of
> you use this model and if so what are your opinions.
> On my end, I play
> a lot of fingerstyle jazz as well as with a pick.
> Tonewise, I lean
> towards the darker tone players (i.e. Pat Martino;
> Jim Hall;etc..) I
> am using a polytone megabrute and this is what I am
> planning to run the
> Verithin through.
>
> Thanks for your help!
Sean Williams
www.gtr4hire.com
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John Amato
way consider myself an "expert" but simply a lover of
this art we call "Jazz Guitar" ... and around it long
enough to pretty much have an opinion that is not
tossed about on the sea of "professional critics" ....
me thinks me can think for meself ...
I think "soul" has alot to do with what you
are hearing inside and how you internalize and
see/feel/figure/taste/externalize/process the beat,
the form, the unitt, and the whole piece ... "soul" is
not "how" but "who" you are musically..
... "soul" has nothing to do with amount of notes or
speed ... it's phrasing, it's rhythmic figures in your
lines, it's comp voicings, stabs, shots, and it's also
one's choice of arpeggios and scales (and
combo/interchangeability of both) to suit your musical
statement which is derivative of your "soul" ...
... good case in point: the guitarist I mentioned in
former thread on "n/soul" would repeat certain
arpeggios that fall within the form (on successive
cuts on all 3 CDs I have .. like you can almost
predict his next "fiery" arpeggiated or scale salvo)
... we all do this almost unconsciously ... like
playing a Cmaj7 arpeggio maybe starting from the
B(7th) on a low string and play it by rote: B C E G B
C E G B C E G... etc., etc... (like painting by
numbers ... or, play-by-dots ... Robbie the Robot
plays "Have You Met Miss Jones" ) ... there's a
certain good feeling when we as players feel those
dominoes start to fall and they just keep falling in
line -- we get an almost sexual urge when he hear
those clicks falling so disciplined in line -- and
there is a feedback because they bounced so well off
the chords ... "IS THAT MUSIC?" (yes, music is made up
"of it..." but)... because they fall so accordingly in
sonority, in timbre, in accordance to theory and what
is "supposed" to be jazz, etc....
--- that is what learning by rote is like ... it just
happens because it's like a "law in nature" ...
physics of the instrument dictates that a 1-3-5-7
arpeggio will go with a I chord and will subsequently
fit a ii6/9 or a VI7 or a IV or V13, etc., etc.. the
numbers have no names or faces after awhile ... though
they are movable tonics ... we make them move in many
situations that soemtimes TO ME are not "soul"full ...
or "musically" pertinent or say absolutely noting in
relation to the piece ... but because we have learned
(and teach our students) that if it works, "use it"
...
... I teach my students to be aware of this ... and
try to remind myself all the time about the pitfalls
of "rote" ... they move in almost antithetical
musicality ... I say "antithetical" because a
predetermined figure or phrase like1 3 5 7 against a
number of situations is still "predtermined" and
cannot have a relevant musical statement against every
single situation we uuse it -- because we may actually
"over use" it ... what kind of "music" is it making
unless it is the HEAD...
..."soul" is also the antithesis of riffs and licks
... ( 'hold me back! hold me back! hold me back! on
the subject of riffs and licks ... if there was ever
anything that is NOT MUSIC or "musical" it is riffs
and licks ... and any teacher who would subscribe to a
"Licks" or "riffs" video or method should really
re-examine and re-evaluate his/her goals and
objectives ...)
...I have to catch myself all the time -- and try to
be aware of "musicality" ... it becomes so easy to
learn a form and then just use it a million times ...
like recycled arpeggios over and over again. ...
paying little attention to the score, the music, the
chart, the tune, the band, etc ...
...to me that is not "soul" ... "soul" is part of an
"inventive" schema where everything inthe tune becomes
a new approach for improv., or even everytime youo
play it ...
...John abercrombie once told me that he never plays a
tune the same way twice, especially standards ...
...so, while listening to Burrell, and h e's not alone
in this analysis, I was so refreshed by his not
relying on learned/memorized/internalized lines,
arpeggios, scales ... he is always new, always looing
to come up with a different phrase or rhythmic mix ...
yes, Kenny Burrell has his own trademark licks and
riffs ... (so do many of us .. it's only natural, it
is part of your voice as a player...) but, when you
play another number by him, he has a totally new
approach ... there are no "down pat" lines that you
"know" he wil execute ...
..."soul" involves to a large extent an artist's
exceptional "sensitivity" to his own subtleness of art
... I say, "exceptional" because he/she is an
important contriubting constituent to the effect
his/her music has on society and the culture --
albeit, unseen, but still effectuated ...
... Art is in the first place for an individual and
only indirectly for the public at large. The real
objective of art is not monetary or
self-gratification, but to give a certain spiritual
satisfaction which points to my allusion of "soul" in
music touching upon the unseen (or spiritual) -- that
has a lot to do with what I meant by being
"transported".....
Changes brought about through art are changes brought
about willingly and therefore can last almost permanently...
John Amato
Isaiah 55:11
T.Hughes
What you have written here is great so eloquently put!
I agree with you completely!
I think you really nailed it.
Best
Tony Hughes
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collegeharry2004
white girl called Joss Stone who calls herself a "Soul" singer and
makes a lot of money.IMHO every jazz musician has soul-as opposed to
"soul".It's a prerequisite for wanting to play the music.It's a common
misconception that you have to bend a lot of notes,play slurs and turn
on what Stan Freberg used to call the "Howdy - Doody Button" to play
with soul.Mr Conti - a fine player - may not have "soul" as Aretha
Franklin or Tina Turner have "soul",but I'm sure neither of thos
eestimable ladies would classify themselves as jazz artists any more
than Mr Conti would classify himself as a "soul" artist.However,and
once again only IMHO,Mr Conti plays with soul.
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will_halligan
away if they have it or not.
There are a lot of technically fine players but they just don't have
it - it is that magic that is impossible to define.
It is the same with all areas of music, I once returned a recording of
Rachmninov`s 2nd piano concerto to a shop and demanded that they
replace it with a different recording with more feeling in the second
movement.
Pete Townshend once said that he would rather hear a guitarist play
just one note with feeling than a whole host of technical excellence.
Will
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Dave Woods
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Amato" <jama...@yahoo.com>
To: <jazz_...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 10:44 PM
Subject: [jazz_guitar] Just What Is "Soul"?
> ... we all do this almost unconsciously ... like
> playing a Cmaj7 arpeggio maybe starting from the
> B(7th) on a low string and play it by rote: B C E G B
> C E G B C E G... etc., etc... (like painting by
> numbers ... or, play-by-dots ... Robbie the Robot
> plays "Have You Met Miss Jones" )
John has written a very deep soul searching personal analysis here on the
subject of "Soul"
In the above excerpt from his post, I think he's talking about the "ruts" we
all get into where we tend to repeat our licks. We all do this.
Coming from a composition background I learned the techniques of how to
develop a theme, and I don't think a lot of improvisers make use of this.
What they generally do is try to avoid the ways that they repeat themselves.
To me, this is a big mistake.
If you repeat a certain lick on a certain chord over and over again, it
means that you have developed a personal feeling for those notes.
In terms of "soul" we are always going to reach for what we feel in the act
of expressing ourselves. Therefore, I say don't avoid the lick, exploit it.
The notes of any lick can be played in a different order.
A lick whose range is contained within an octave, can have its notes also
transposed through higher and lower octaves. This combined with the notes in
a different order expands the development of the "lick" even more.
The notes of the lick can also be played in a different rhythm with reats
petween the notes, and embelishments can be added. I could go on and on, but
this should give you the idea. The design of the lick and its developments
can be applied to any other type of chord.
The most important aspect is that you are working from something you already
hear and feel. Don't throw the lick away or avoid it, embrace it and
develop it.
Dave Woods
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Chris Smart
>IMHO soul is playing from the heart, when I hear somebody I know
>right
>away if they have it or not.
Two non-jazzers that have it for me are Jimmy Herring and Jeff
Beck. Oops, add Derek Trucks to that as well.
Anybody have a tlist of Jimmy Herring projects available on CD,
besides Aquarium Rescue Unit?
Chris
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rayray
Like the "folksy" sound Bob Dylan or Joan Baez get,
or the "hokey" sound of Hank Williams,
or the "bluesy" sound of Elmore James or B.B. King,
or the "rock'in" sound of Bruce Springsteen,
or the "funky" sound of James Brown,
and so on...
It's that human feel that creates a "soulful" performance. The notes
are secondary. The repetition of the same harmonic and rhythmic ideas
is more an issue with a "limited vocabulary" than it is a lack of soul.
There are plenty of players with a limited vocabulary, that are very
"soulful".
But I think Dave's point on "theme" development is a really important
point from the standpoint of expanding the vocabulary. I know that I
neglect expanding on theme's before tossing them aside for another
idea. A player from the past like John Coltrane was a master of taking
a "theme" and turning it upside down and inside out for all it's worth
rhythmically, harmonically and dynamically. And all the time
interjecting plenty of "soul"!
Ray
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mel williams
Try playing a musical phrase/ lick with or without accompaniment... make it sound happy... make it sound sad, make it sound angry, make it sound joyous... try playing one note through some changes... see how many different ways you can make that one note interesting... when I listen to the GREATS... MILES, COLTRANE, GETZ, WAYNE SHORTER, JIMI HENDRIX, STEVIE RAY VAUGHAN, WES MONTGOMERY...
I hear these sorts of things and many more.
So I think it's possible to play with "soul" by playing free of restraints, and by playing merely licks. Try it both ways...
But please work towards playing with "soul", with feeling, emotion, musicality... the true purpose of music is to communicate something/ anything that may or may not be able to be expressed merely with words....
But man music does it so much better........
Besides no one cares if you're using the 7th mode of melodic minor... please understand this is coming from a COMPLETE THEORY OBSESSED PLAYER...
I'm still aiming for these things myself... always will be.
Just my two cents......
Mel
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brian Kelly
You're a man after my own heart. I don't know what version of the
Rachmaninov 2nd you have but Martha Argerich's Rachmaninov 3rd is of the
charts. It is not just my opinion either. Many people refer to this as the
definitive take on the piece and I can say without question that it is
absolutely is wonderful. And, yes, Martha definability has soul. In fact,
to me she is on par with anyone I can think of in any field of music.
Another classical musician I like with tones of soul is violinist Maxim
Vengerov. His version of Prokoviev's 2nd Violin concerto is off the charts.
He won both record of the year and artist of the year for that performance.
It is with the London Symphony Orchestra with Rostropovich conducting.
Good to meet someone who like Hendrix and classical music and jazz guitar
all at the same time.
Best
Brian
_____
From: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jazz_...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of will_halligan
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 6:39 AM
To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [jazz_guitar] Re: Just What Is "Soul"?
IMHO soul is playing from the heart, when I hear somebody I know right
away if they have it or not.
There are a lot of technically fine players but they just don't have
it - it is that magic that is impossible to define.
It is the same with all areas of music, I once returned a recording of
Rachmninov`s 2nd piano concerto to a shop and demanded that they
replace it with a different recording with more feeling in the second
movement.
Pete Townshend once said that he would rather hear a guitarist play
just one note with feeling than a whole host of technical excellence.
Will
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ray East
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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T.Hughes
What you say here is very true concerning repetition!
ie Coltrane for instance used quite a bit of repetition in his solos's with
embellishments. The giant steps solo come to mind here.
I also find the variations on a theme to be very effective device for solo
development.
Your post's mean alot to me
Thanks
Tony hughes
Dave Woods
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will_halligan
I have several versions of Rach 2 including a very old vinyl with
Eileen Joyce who played it for Brief Encounter. Thanks for your
recommendations I will go to Amazon and order them - I have just
ordered a performance of Rach 3 by Horowitz from the 1940s. I also
have ten different recordings of Tchaikovsky`s first piano concerto
which for me is nothing short of spectacular.
Like you, I see no problem in liking Hendrix, a host of classical,
rock and jazz players and a load of classical music. Why limit
oneself?
I always used to think that Rach piano concerto no 2 had been
inspired by Tchaikovsky`s no 1. Then I read that when Rachmaninov
toured as a pianist Tchaikovsky`s no 1 was a favourite performance
piece of his.
Rachmaninov and Tchaikovsky had soul - just like Hendrix had it.
Best wishes,
Will
--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Kelly" <bkelly@...> wrote:
>
> Will,
>
> You're a man after my own heart. I don't know what version of the
> Rachmaninov 2nd you have but Martha Argerich's Rachmaninov 3rd is
of the
> charts.
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Brian Kelly
The Horowitz is great. Not, in my opinion, on quite the same level as
Martha but very close. I am not an expert at classical music only a big fan
and so I am unfamiliar with Eileen Joyce. If she is very, very good, and
you recommend her, I will chase down her recordings.
I love the Russian composers. Prokoviev is probably my favorite but they
are all very dear to me. For a surprise check out Nikolai Medtner. He was
Tchaikovsky favorite composer and is said to be the Chopin of Russia. I
love his music but then again I love Chopin so it may just suite my tastes.
If the two CD's I recommended don't blow you away I will gladly purchase
them from you and give them to friends.
Since this post may quickly get too far off topic so please consider
emailing me at bke...@bkellyusa.com.
Best
Brian
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]