[jazz_guitar] Re: Practicing Chord Vocabulary Naturally

[Jay]

Hi Steve,
If you want to get more food for thought about harmony, chord-melody playing, etc., I'd suggest looking into Ted Greene's website:
http://www.tedgreene.com/
There's tons of his material on the site, plus his book, "Chord Chemistry" is a classic for all guitarists.
Check these out.
--Jay

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jazz_guitar/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jazz_guitar/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
jazz_guit...@yahoogroups.com
jazz_guitar-...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
jazz_guitar...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[stevesachse]

The farther I come as a musician, using more of my ear and natural instincts, it's hard for me to practice in a way that really ingrains some the concepts I use. I used to have really rigid routines, like I would work up all of my scales and modes in chord sonorities that had specific contents, like 2nds, 4ths, etc. But the more I progress, I see that it doesn't always necessarily equal music in the end. I just finished watching this clip of Kurt Rosenwinkel, and this is a perfect example. First off, I'm just amazed, totally humbled by this guy. His lines, his chordal vocabulary, are so advanced, yet they come out so naturally and musical. He approaches his concepts intentionally, yet he knows them so well that they come out more intuitively and naturally. This is what I'm striving for. Here's the clip if you want to watch it. The whole thing is wonderful, but just wait for the guitar solo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6vc8eAahsc&feature=related

Anyway, back to what I was saying. I've reached a point to where when it comes to chordal vocabulary, I really just practice improvising over certain combinations of specific chord types or tunes and try to make it come out musical. I can do that, but I find that I can be a bit inconsistent because when I do it, I just sort of see the chord shapes and make it up as I go. There's less and less method to it. I think that's a good thing, but when I see Kurt in that video he's doing the same thing, yet he seems to also have a method. He knows exactly what he wants to grab when he's improvising a chord melody solo. I'm trying to get there.

Another difficult part to that is the fact that there are countless ways to harmonize any particular harmonic situation, scale, etc., and they all have a different vibe that they give off in the music. On occasion I have found that these can clash in certain musical situations. However, I recently had a realization that it's really about your own voice, and if you know it well enough, you can make it work. I did a Christmas gig a few weeks ago, with a singer for a packed audience. We performed Chestnuts Over an Open Fire at a church, and it was trio + the singer, so I handled the solos and everything. I'm trying more and more to use chords as much as I use lines in my solos, especially in that kind of setting. Anyway, in the end I just did my thing, used some pretty modern and dissonant voicings, etc., and the crowd just loved it. We played two nights, and both went over really well.

Anyway, I don't really know the point of this, however, I could really use some suggestions on books or any other sources that deal with chord melody soloing/arrangements and substitutions/chord tricks. Like in that video, Kurt uses the same chord voicing and just moves it around the neck at one point. I know a lot of people do that, but knowing when to do it is the key. Stuff like that would really help me out. I'd love to discuss it.

[RONALD VITARELLI]

Steve,

Get a copy of Joe Diorio's SOLO GUITAR CONCEPTS. I study under Joe and that video (BTW: Hal Leonard) is really reflective of the way he plays. He teaches a mixed group of serious guitarists who represent a broad range of skills and abilities, but everyone has made great strides in creative playing.

Ron V
CT/USA

[stevesachse]

--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <jayv999@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Steve,
> If you want to get more food for thought about harmony, chord-melody playing, etc., I'd suggest looking into Ted Greene's website:
> http://www.tedgreene.com/
> There's tons of his material on the site, plus his book, "Chord
> Chemistry" is a classic for all guitarists.

Thanks, Jay. The website has some great stuff on it. Appreciated.

[akmbirch]

This is some general thoughts and comment, not directly on your question..

IMO, the trouble is that many players try to run the marathon before
they can even crawl, let alone walk.

Many students start right in learning four part harmony and chords
without any modicum of understanding of triads, triadic harmony, and triad stacking. They learn an arrangement of a few jazz standards, some chord "grips", and spend much time in the physical and technique aspects of these chords, often more so than their auditory understanding. While this commendable and important in their development, IMO, it is important to learn triads and their inversions both aurally and physically. I hear students all the time who come with a smattering of "jazz chords", and ask "so how do I do chord melodies on-the-fly"?

Sadly, IMO, most of the chord melody methods out there focus on the physical, formulaic, chord melody arrangements, more an intellectual approach rather than an aural approach.

IMO, I think it's important to start simply, can you for example harmonize some basic tunes on-the-fly? Start with say "Twinkle, Twinkle" then move onto other simple folk, childhood, patriotic tunes etc. IMO, learning basic triadic harmonization both aurally and physically, is the key to more advanced jazz harmony. In the end you have to put in the practice to achieve this. On the other hand, for many, it is OK to just be able to play some "set in stone" pre-worked out arrangements of jazz standards, there are many, many players, who perform and gig in this manner.

--
Alisdair MacRae Birch
Guitarist/Bassist/Educator/Arranger
http://www.alisdair.com

[Petri]

Hey Steve,

I think I know what you're after and I understand the feelings you're going through. My advice is simple: be patient and keep at it. You have the ingredients; the perspective and the ability to use them in the right proportions comes only through doing it - gigging and then gigging some more.

Also, I often try to get deeper into a feeling such as "he does it so that it seems that somehow there's a method within that spontaneity" - I like to get concrete on issues like this. If you hear a difference between your and so-and-so's playing it can usually be analyzed, at least to a degree where you can learn from it. How's the use of space? Phrasing (as in where the phrases are located in relation to the song structure)? How's the time feel? The sound of the instrument? The relationship of the solo to the tune itself? Are there voicings you have never used or didn't know existed?

For me, that kind of breaking it down is what makes all the difference. Be concrete since this is your field of speciality - knowing the difference doesn't exclude spontaneity and intuitive playing in any way.

Best wishes,

Petri

www.petrikrzywacki.com

[stevesachse]

Alisdair, very insightful thoughts from clearly a very experienced teacher. I agree 100% with everything you said. I think also though that it's hard to get the ears going without listening to the music. I know a guy that only does the chord melody thing. He's never played jazz in a combo group with a bass player before. He has some great arrangements, but he can't tell you half of what he's playing, other than, "oh I hear x on a Wes album, or y on a Kenny Burrell album, etc." He has some great ears for that approach. By the same token, I have students come to me all the time asking me to help them with jazz band tryouts, or just to learn jazz. It's funny when I ask them, "well, what jazz guitarists do you really like?" Many of them don't even listen to the music. As with any style, it's about more than the notes, it's the approach and the execution, the expression, rhythmic phrasing, etc., etc. So yeah, I know exactly what you mean.

(BTW, I have played jazz for 8 years and have a degree in traditional acoustic/electronic composition. ;>) Not that it means anything other than that I understand the concepts you're talking about. I still have a lifetime of learning ahead of me. I'm not even close yet!)

[Brian Kelly]

Guys who want to play jazz but who don't listen to it sort of kill me. I see it pretty often and I don't make a big deal out of it but I feel sort of sorry for these guys. I'll be first to admit that the study of the techniques and technology that goes into playing jazz is truly very interesting. However it pales in comparison to studying jazz by listening to it's greatest players. Even if jazz isn't truly your thing and you just want to use the technology of the music to "hip up" your hillbilly licks you should still listen to the guys who made this music special otherwise you won't know what you are missing.

Brian Kelly

----- Original Message -----
From: stevesachse
To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 3:17 AM
Subject: [jazz_guitar] Re: Practicing Chord Vocabulary Naturally

Alisdair, very insightful thoughts from clearly a very experienced teacher. I agree 100% with everything you said. I think also though that it's hard to get the ears going without listening to the music. I know a guy that only does the chord melody thing. He's never played jazz in a combo group with a bass player before. He has some great arrangements, but he can't tell you half of what he's playing, other than, "oh I hear x on a Wes album, or y on a Kenny Burrell album, etc." He has some great ears for that approach. By the same token, I have students come to me all the time asking me to help them with jazz band tryouts, or just to learn jazz. It's funny when I ask them, "well, what jazz guitarists do you really like?" Many of them don't even listen to the music. As with any style, it's about more than the notes, it's the approach and the execution, the expression, rhythmic phrasing, etc., etc. So yeah, I know exactly what you mean. < br>

(BTW, I have played jazz for 8 years and have a degree in traditional acoustic/electronic composition. ;>) Not that it means anything other than that I understand the concepts you're talking about. I still have a lifetime of learning ahead of me. I'm not even close yet!)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bob Hansmann]

> Guys who want to play jazz but who don't listen to it sort of kill me.
> I see it pretty often and I don't make a big deal out of it but I feel

> sort of sorry for these guys....

Welcome to the world of the multi-taskers. ("multi-tasking" = "A.D.D.")
For these folks, music (and common conversation, for that matter) is a
background thing, to be quasi-listened to while doing whatever else it
is that they are not paying attention to either.

best,
Bobby

[Angelo]

I think that just listening won't do it. You have to pointed into the
direction of WHAT to listen for...
I've been in classes where the listening is concentrated on figuring out
what chords and or notes the performer is playing, rather than on how he's
playing them. More like ear training.
To me the key to all the great jazz players is a sense of relaxation in
their approach...
Nowadays, with all the emphasis on learning every chord in every key (mode)
and every technical aspect of the instrument, there results a frenetic
approach with a million notes per second and what I call "finger" jazz...
One example I like to use is the approach of Milt Jackson vs. that of Terry
Gibbs...
Both have command over their instrument, but the feeling I get from Terry is
a wild, frenetic energy, whereas Milt gives the feeling of complete
relaxation, as though he has all the time in the world to get through the
solo. Another comparison would be Art Farmer with Don Ellis...
I could give many more examples, but I think you guys get the idea...
Feel free to disagree...