I love jazz but my wife, not so much. Her complaint
is that, why do you take a wonderful melody and then
jumble it up so much that you can’t remember what song
is being played. I tell her “improvisation” and she
says “mess”. I play in a contemporary band, and use
my jazz influence, but am mindful that my playing is
only to accompany the person singing the words. My
concern is that groups are jumping on the bandwagon,
for the wrong reason, because it is such a fast
growing and lucrative industry.
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Back in the 1970s I was the guitarist for the Christian musical "Come
Together" in the UK. Pat Boon, Barry McGuire and Jimmy Owen came over
to perform in the first performance and Jimmy Owen returned to make
sure the music was right.
For me it was fresh air - at last people were taking a pride in the
musical side as well as the words.
Will
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Andy
---- Frank Novotny <fnov...@yahoo.com> wrote:
=============
I think you are missing the point with Contemporary
Christian music. It is not about the music but the
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Exception: Phil Keaggy. I might have his name slightly mispelled,
but he's a great acoustic and electric guitarist, and puts on an
entertaining show. His gimmick of choice is piling up loops in
real-time, a feit which astonishes most audience members.
Chris
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This is no way means that (like Bach, et. al.
composers whose patrons were the church, with themes
of liturgical intent) music that pays homage to God
does not in any way exclude "virtuosity" or
"expressiveness" of emotion, or style. Music devoid of
"improvisation" can still be very virtuosic ...
The depth of musicalality in Christian music depends
on develoment of theme -- melody is straightforward,
intending to carry and express "doctrine" ... there is
far less rhythmic development because tradionally it
goes against "secular" interests in the "beat" ... (in
other words, the "beat" is not the point ... pay
attention to the foot instead of above goes back
centuries ...)
--- Ronald Murray <rmu...@snet.net> wrote:
> How silly. Bach wrote all of his music, vocal and
> instrumental, to
> the glory of God. Rock beat or not, musicians
> playing to send that
> message are no less sincere. Of course, lots of
> music is terrible if
> played badly, including hymns and even Bach.
>
> On Feb 28, 2007, at 10:12 AM, <awse...@cox.net>
> <awse...@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
> > I am sorry but I have to take issue with this. The
> music is the
> > vehicle for the words. The words are nice, but
> does the music
> > glorify? Probably not, You can't expect to take a
> hard rock beat
> > (no matter what words you put behind it) and
> expect that to
> > glorify. Of course young people are going to those
> concerts, they
> > like the music (not necessarily the words). THAT
> is the driving
> > force and it is misleading to represent the words
> in that venue. It
> > defeats the whole purpose other than performers
> making a buck.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > ---- Frank Novotny <fnov...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
John Amato
Isaiah 55:11
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--- Chris Smart <chr...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> *yawn* it may be fantastic to the believer, but to
> the rest of us
> heathens who look to the music itself for
> inspiration, we need some
> meat on them bones.
>
> Exception: Phil Keaggy. I might have his name
> slightly mispelled,
> but he's a great acoustic and electric guitarist,
> and puts on an
> entertaining show. His gimmick of choice is piling
> up loops in
> real-time, a feit which astonishes most audience
> members.
>
> Chris
>
>
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>
>
>
John Amato
Isaiah 55:11
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I think it all depends on the situation. For a contemporary Christian
pop/rock band putting out CD's and touring, maybe you have an
argument. But for a strictly worship-only band, yes the music
glorifies for sure.
>You can't expect to take a hard rock beat (no matter what words you
put behind it) and expect that to glorify.
Why not? That's ridiculous to assume you can determine people's
ability to feel and worship in that situation.
>>THAT is the driving force and it is misleading to represent the
words in that venue. It defeats the whole purpose other than
performers making a buck.
Again, for a pop band, maybe. For a worship band, no. It's important
here not to generalize every form of contemporary Christian music,
just like bebop, hard bop, post bop, fusion, etc, ain't the same jazz.
It's not misleading at all for a person attending the concert for the
lyrics, despite what the beat is doing.
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There is ABSOLUTELY no difference bewteen CCM
(Christian
Contemporary Music) and today's Rock.
Like McCluen said, The "Music is the Message" .... the
Christian
rock bands are doing exactly what the secular rock
bands are doing (same 500+ db too), only difference is
the lyrics which are SUPPOSED
to be evangelical ... but if you ask me, in trying to
"bring over," or
"win over" the secular rock crowd, the CCM bands have
diluted and watered down the evangelical message to
the point where the "message" gets lost in the "hook."
I am asked to arranged many CCM charts ... and I
refuse if they want to retain the Rock fell ... so,
what I suggest and wind up donng is either "jazzify"
them or still them down with a more calm "Folk-sih" or
light
Folk-Rock feel...
Now, today's Praise & Worship and Gospel is a
different story ... I do many arragements of Gospel
favorites ala Jazz style and harmony ... check some
out on my web site ...
--- Jim Mings <jming...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Bach was a court musician, and his patron would
> ask him to "write a
> Mass because the duke of so-and-so is coming over
> later this week", and
> so it went. The Roman Catholic church's influence
> in those days was
> not just religious, they were a political force, and
> a source for
> employment as well. Those guys were the equivalent
> of today's jingle
> writers, in a way. It was a gig.
>
> Juan, Bach was a Lutheran, I believe. Some
> significant world history to
> catch up on here. I usually dig what you say, but
> Man, you are WAY off
> base here. In what way was Bach's inspired music
> similar to jingle
> writing? This is not the time or place to discuss
> religion, but suffice
> to say, for some the words "to the glory of God" are
> not devoid of
> meaning.
> Jim
>
>
John Amato
Isaiah 55:11
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--- Ronald Murray <rmu...@snet.net> wrote:
John Amato
Isaiah 55:11
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1. Is Round Midnight a Jazz tune? If so, what makes it such? Is it the lyrics or the music?
2. If it is the lyrics, and if you just PLAY Round Midnight (without vocals)then is it still Jazz?
3. What is Round Midnight if you just play it without vocals? I think it is still Jazz due to the structure of the tune.
4. If it is the music that makes Round Midnight Jazz, then this contemporary Christian music isn't Christian, it is the lyrics that are.
That is all I was trying to say.
Andy
---- Ronald Murray <rmu...@snet.net> wrote:
=============
Do you really think God has a playlist? Or that She is a music
critic? Glorifying one's lord comes from the heart, not the chord
changes or rhythms. I don't recall anything in the Bible about
"though shall not turn up to 11" or "power chords are an
abomination". As to whether the crowd moves to the lyrics or the
music, what's the difference? Why are you obsessed with making up
silly rules like this? Jesus himself was said to have disapproved of
public displays of worship anyway, so it seems that it's all about
the earthly, not the heavenly. I happen to think that most Christian
rock is awful, but that goes for secular rock as well. And most
American Christians seem to have a deeper need for entertainment than
enlightenment, for at least the past 50 years, when folk music was
all the rage in church. Some sects speak in tongues, some handle
snakes, some use Les Pauls and Marshalls. "Make a joyful noise" seems
to me to be pretty clear.
Andy
---- John Amato <jama...@yahoo.com> wrote:
=============
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First the Rega turntables are wonderful and are easy to set up. I have a Rega P-25 that I am finally going to sell to get out of listening to LP's (not a sales pitch just telling you where I am at) but it is not because they aren't wonderful it's that they are a hassle to handle and maintain and expensive to reproduce fully. Besides a good turntable you'll need a good cartridge and an high quality phono preamp.
You can look on eBay for either a Rega, a Moth, a Music Hall, a Thorens or an Ariston (I am probably forgetting a few others) to get a good turntable at a reasonable price or even better check out Audiogon.com. Often these will come with a desirable cartridge already installed so that will get you started.
There is info on turntables all over the net. You should be able to find info easily.
Best
Brian Kelly
----- Original Message -----
From: Choon Boon Lee
To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 2:12 AM
Subject: [jazz_guitar] Re: Why contemporary music sounds terrible
Will replied:
"Go for it!
I know about the storage problems but what the heck, you can get some
really good decks on ebay for not a lot..."
<snip>
Will: Thanks for the encouragement! I will definitely give it a shot in the
coming months.
Ebay Singapore is out for me as the choices at ebay.com.sg are very limited.
I read good reviews about the Regar Planar 2 and Technics SL1200, so I might
give second hand models of those a shot. Turntables also seem to require
lots of tweaking and attention to set up right and maintain, another
deterrent. But in the quest for better sound quality and since I don't seem
to like cd sound, I'll give turn tables a shot and see how it goes. If you
know any dummies guide for newbies getting into turntables, could you share
them with me? Many thanks!
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Andy
---- Brian Kelly <bke...@bkellyusa.com> wrote:
=============
I think I might have missed something since I don't know where this turntable discussion started but let me add my two cents.
First the Rega turntables are wonderful and are easy to set up. I have a Rega P-25 that I am finally going to sell to get out of listening to LP's (not a sales pitch just telling you where I am at) but it is not because they aren't wonderful it's that they are a hassle to handle and maintain and expensive to reproduce fully. Besides a good turntable you'll need a good cartridge and an high quality phono preamp.
You can look on eBay for either a Rega, a Moth, a Music Hall, a Thorens or an Ariston (I am probably forgetting a few others) to get a good turntable at a reasonable price or even better check out Audiogon.com. Often these will come with a desirable cartridge already installed so that will get you started.
There is info on turntables all over the net. You should be able to find info easily.
Chris,
Amen, Brother! Don't feel alone my friend. I would throw out some
Sam Harris quotes but I'm afraid I'd get burned at the stake. Yes,
Carlin's 'Send your donations because God is broke' routine is a
classic. LOL
I guess one of the bad things about being a non-believer is that you
don't have worship music – but then again - you can sleep in on
Sundays!
Dan
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Will: Thanks for the invite. I'll be joining the hi-fi group!
Have a great weekend everyone! (It's fri evening at this part of the world)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I guess one of the bad things about being a
> non-believer is that you don't have worship
> music
The worst thing about being an atheist is you don't have anyone to talk to
when you have an orgasm.
;)
Jay
Chris
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Oh, oh randomness! Oh chance!
*kidding*
hahaha. thanks for posting that.
Brightened up my otherwise dull morning, snowed in, and with a bad
head cold moving into my ears.
Chris
P.S.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/carlin.htm
P.P.S. If Dawkins and his ilk are too shrill, try a book called Can
We Be Good Without God, by Robert Buckman.
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On Mar 2, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Jay Mitchell wrote:
> Dan Bailey wrote:
>
> > I guess one of the bad things about being a
> > non-believer is that you don't have worship
> > music
>
> The worst thing about being an atheist is you don't have anyone to
> talk to
> when you have an orgasm.
> ;)
>
> Jay
>
>
>
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All the stuff that will sell will have been transferred – and I can
tell you that much of it has been transferred from vinyl copies and
not from the original tapes.
One studio I knew back in the 1980s used to send out to Woolworths to
buy an LP when they got an order for a CD mastering. When I queried
this with the engineer he said it was either that or wait 6 months to
get permission to use the original tapes – and generally be refused.
In those days the transfer used to be vinyl to Betamax (converted for
audio use,) I suspect nowadays it is vinyl to PC and then processed
by Soundforge or a similar bit of software to remove surface noise
and then processed again to reduce dynamic range. However, I have
been out of the recording industry for a long time so things will
probably have changed.
Will
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Will
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Andy
---- will_halligan <wi...@post.com> wrote:
=============
The finest version of Amazing Grace I have ever heard was the Holmes
Brothers. Top notch jazz/blues musicians with rock solid superb
harmonies. I have seen them twice and each time was completely blown
away - if I needed converting these guys would have done it!
Will
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Chris,
Here's a religious song which you might like:
http://melbrooksinqusition.ytmnd.com/
"The Inquisition (what a show)
The Inquistion (here we go)
We know you're wishin' that we'd go away.
But the Inquisition's here and it's here to stay!"
Dan
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All Things Dull And Ugly lyrics by MONTY PYTHON
All things dull and ugly
All creatures short and squat
All things rude and nasty,
The lord god made the lot.
Each little snake that poisons,
Each little wasp that stings.
He made their brutish venom,
He made their horrid wings.
All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small
All things foul and dangerous
The lord god made them all.
Each nasty little hornet
Each beastly little squid
Who made the spiky urchin
Who made the shocks... he did.
All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small.
Putrid, foul and gangrenous,
The lord god made them all.
Amen.
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> When I first saw the title about terrible contemporary music in this
> here group me I thought of vapid music in general culturation. Now, am
> sore and wretchedly cornfused by turn of communal digression. Howsa
> abouts we ponder why the gittar has them things what you tune it with.
> Personally I am concerened, deeply concerened, as 2 why one note
> follows another. Also, how do you count music?
> Can anybody help? I am lost. Thanks in advance,
> Jim
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (63)Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
> Messages | Links
>
> Ch
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Daniel
www.danielmartina.com.ar
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Recording technology and overcompressing the recording so that it is
"hot" or loud with little or no true dynamics.
Wow I guess this proves the theory that if a story is repeated over
and over again it eventually strays away from the original topic...
Hmmm sounds like jazz improv to me.
Lol
Another thing: how is it that people who are against music that
doesn't serve god through lyrics or instrumentation are signed up to a
jazz guitar discussion group? doesn't make sense to me?
pEaCe
--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Botelho <gtrbot@...> wrote:
>
> LOL!!!!!!!!
>
> This is a perfect example of why off topics should not be
entertained here!
>
> This is a Jazz guitar forum!!
>
> I am quite sure the only reason God allows threads to stray from
Jazz guitar topics on this forum, is because He/She/it is spending
time better served keeping priests away from altar boys, feeding the
starving, sheltering the homeless, preventing war, protecting the
innocent, etc,,,
>
> A gig is a gig, and church is a business!
>
> Bless those that are spiritual in whatever way and treat other
beings and species with dignity and respect.
>
>
> Chuck
>
> "stir it up!!!!"
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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Hi all,
Anybody else see the inherent contradictions in the above?
It has been my thought that perhaps religion should be off topic in
every day life, but I guess we'd find something else to fight about.
Perhaps whether Bill Evans is deeper than Joe Pass or maybe the
relative seriousity re: Liszt or Chopin. At any rate sarcasm breeds
sarcasm. And in case any one cares, my little dirt road commentary
was Swiftian in intention. It is not cool to offer dignity and
respect and at the same hold George Carlin's middle finger up behind
your back.
What I'd really like to know is how in the world you can bring the
melody up front in a chord melody? Are there any suggestions as to
how to practice for this?
Thanks,
Jim
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