[jazz_guitar] Re: Why contemporary music sounds terrible

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Frank Novotny

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Feb 28, 2007, 7:20:26 AM2/28/07
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I think you are missing the point with Contemporary
Christian music. It is not about the music but the
WORDS. It is the same with hymns. Many are not well
written musically, but again the emphasis in on the
words. These are prayers to our Lord put to music.
If you have ever attended a live Christian concert,
you will know exactly what I am saying. Here are
hundreds of people worshiping with a three chord song.
It is fantastic. Here are lyrics to just one such
song:
------------------------
I can only imagine , What it will be like, When I
walk By Your side, I can only imagine, What my eyes
will see, When Your face , Is before me I can only
imagine
[Chorus]:
Surrounded by Your glory, what will my heart feel
Will I dance for You Jesus or in awe of You be still
Will I stand in Your presence or to my knees will I
fall,Will I sing hallelujah, will I be able to speak
at all, I can only imagine.
-------------------------
Does it matter about music?

I love jazz but my wife, not so much. Her complaint
is that, why do you take a wonderful melody and then
jumble it up so much that you can’t remember what song
is being played. I tell her “improvisation” and she
says “mess”. I play in a contemporary band, and use
my jazz influence, but am mindful that my playing is
only to accompany the person singing the words. My
concern is that groups are jumping on the bandwagon,
for the wrong reason, because it is such a fast
growing and lucrative industry.


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will_halligan

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Feb 28, 2007, 9:21:30 AM2/28/07
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--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, Frank Novotny <fnovotny@...> wrote:
>
> I think you are missing the point with Contemporary
> Christian music. It is not about the music but the
> WORDS.

Back in the 1970s I was the guitarist for the Christian musical "Come
Together" in the UK. Pat Boon, Barry McGuire and Jimmy Owen came over
to perform in the first performance and Jimmy Owen returned to make
sure the music was right.

For me it was fresh air - at last people were taking a pride in the
musical side as well as the words.

Will

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awse...@cox.net

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Feb 28, 2007, 10:12:20 AM2/28/07
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, Frank Novotny
I am sorry but I have to take issue with this. The music is the vehicle for the words. The words are nice, but does the music glorify? Probably not, You can't expect to take a hard rock beat (no matter what words you put behind it) and expect that to glorify. Of course young people are going to those concerts, they like the music (not necessarily the words). THAT is the driving force and it is misleading to represent the words in that venue. It defeats the whole purpose other than performers making a buck.

Andy


---- Frank Novotny <fnov...@yahoo.com> wrote:

=============


I think you are missing the point with Contemporary
Christian music. It is not about the music but the

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Chris Smart

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Feb 28, 2007, 11:10:06 AM2/28/07
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Did anybody else catch the South Park episode where Cartman decided
to start a Christian rock band? *LOL*


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Chris Smart

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Feb 28, 2007, 11:09:16 AM2/28/07
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*yawn* it may be fantastic to the believer, but to the rest of us
heathens who look to the music itself for inspiration, we need some
meat on them bones.

Exception: Phil Keaggy. I might have his name slightly mispelled,
but he's a great acoustic and electric guitarist, and puts on an
entertaining show. His gimmick of choice is piling up loops in
real-time, a feit which astonishes most audience members.

Chris


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John Amato

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Feb 28, 2007, 12:03:07 PM2/28/07
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.. I think there is a misconception among musicians in
the term, "for the glory of God..."

This is no way means that (like Bach, et. al.
composers whose patrons were the church, with themes
of liturgical intent) music that pays homage to God
does not in any way exclude "virtuosity" or
"expressiveness" of emotion, or style. Music devoid of
"improvisation" can still be very virtuosic ...

The depth of musicalality in Christian music depends
on develoment of theme -- melody is straightforward,
intending to carry and express "doctrine" ... there is
far less rhythmic development because tradionally it
goes against "secular" interests in the "beat" ... (in
other words, the "beat" is not the point ... pay
attention to the foot instead of above goes back
centuries ...)

--- Ronald Murray <rmu...@snet.net> wrote:

> How silly. Bach wrote all of his music, vocal and
> instrumental, to
> the glory of God. Rock beat or not, musicians
> playing to send that
> message are no less sincere. Of course, lots of
> music is terrible if
> played badly, including hymns and even Bach.
>
> On Feb 28, 2007, at 10:12 AM, <awse...@cox.net>
> <awse...@cox.net>

> wrote:
>
> > I am sorry but I have to take issue with this. The
> music is the
> > vehicle for the words. The words are nice, but
> does the music
> > glorify? Probably not, You can't expect to take a
> hard rock beat
> > (no matter what words you put behind it) and
> expect that to
> > glorify. Of course young people are going to those
> concerts, they
> > like the music (not necessarily the words). THAT
> is the driving
> > force and it is misleading to represent the words
> in that venue. It
> > defeats the whole purpose other than performers
> making a buck.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > ---- Frank Novotny <fnov...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
>
>
>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


John Amato
Isaiah 55:11



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John Amato

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Feb 28, 2007, 12:06:10 PM2/28/07
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yes, I forgot to mention ... the VChritian music
guitarist, Phil Keaggy is
an outrageous player:

http://www.philkeaggy.com/


--- Chris Smart <chr...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> *yawn* it may be fantastic to the believer, but to
> the rest of us
> heathens who look to the music itself for
> inspiration, we need some
> meat on them bones.
>
> Exception: Phil Keaggy. I might have his name
> slightly mispelled,
> but he's a great acoustic and electric guitarist,
> and puts on an
> entertaining show. His gimmick of choice is piling
> up loops in
> real-time, a feit which astonishes most audience
> members.
>
> Chris
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 -
> Release Date: 2/27/2007
>
>
>

John Amato
Isaiah 55:11



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JVeg...@aol.com

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Feb 28, 2007, 1:07:37 PM2/28/07
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"OK...here is the test in my opinion. Take any of these "contemporary" christian songs and just listen to the music. Don't take the words into consideration. How then would you classify the music?"

Well, I'd say we're getting off-point again, but I think your point is well-taken. In my opinion, "Christian rock" is another form of commercial music, nothing less, nothing more; niche marketing. In fact, I often experience a sort of cognitive dissonance when I hear stuff like "Christian speed metal", for example. Amalgamation and fusion of music done right can be a good thing, but only if there's some sort of underlying unity of principle; it's "sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll", not "Jesus, the Bible, and rock 'n roll", so it doesn't really work from either a musical or a philosophical standpoint.

Overall, my personal impression is that Jesus/Christianity have been commoditized, to the point of meaninglessness, much like Che Guevara, who is probably spinning in his grave at the thought of how he has been turned into a marketing "brand" or something to put on a t-shirt or bumper sticker. Nothing is safe from man's apparently insatiable desire for "making a buck"...

As far as Bach, et al, go, I think the fact they were producing "praise music" is more of a socio-economic construct than a philosophical or personal one. Bach was a court musician, and his patron would ask him to "write a Mass because the duke of so-and-so is coming over later this week", and so it went. The Roman Catholic church's influence in those days was not just religious, they were a political force, and a source for employment as well. Those guys were the equivalent of today's jingle writers, in a way. It was a gig.

Overall, I kind of like "praise music", but I think some people take things a bit too far, losing not only the essence of the message, but the musical integrity of the genre as well.

Cheers,
JV

Juan Vega

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Steve Sachse

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Feb 28, 2007, 2:48:13 PM2/28/07
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--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, <awseyler@...> wrote:
>
> I am sorry but I have to take issue with this. The music is the
>vehicle for the words. The words are nice, but does the music
>glorify? Probably not

I think it all depends on the situation. For a contemporary Christian
pop/rock band putting out CD's and touring, maybe you have an
argument. But for a strictly worship-only band, yes the music
glorifies for sure.

>You can't expect to take a hard rock beat (no matter what words you
put behind it) and expect that to glorify.

Why not? That's ridiculous to assume you can determine people's
ability to feel and worship in that situation.

>>THAT is the driving force and it is misleading to represent the
words in that venue. It defeats the whole purpose other than
performers making a buck.


Again, for a pop band, maybe. For a worship band, no. It's important
here not to generalize every form of contemporary Christian music,
just like bebop, hard bop, post bop, fusion, etc, ain't the same jazz.
It's not misleading at all for a person attending the concert for the
lyrics, despite what the beat is doing.

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Ronald Murray

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Feb 28, 2007, 4:23:36 PM2/28/07
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Do you really think God has a playlist? Or that She is a music
critic? Glorifying one's lord comes from the heart, not the chord
changes or rhythms. I don't recall anything in the Bible about
"though shall not turn up to 11" or "power chords are an
abomination". As to whether the crowd moves to the lyrics or the
music, what's the difference? Why are you obsessed with making up
silly rules like this? Jesus himself was said to have disapproved of
public displays of worship anyway, so it seems that it's all about
the earthly, not the heavenly. I happen to think that most Christian
rock is awful, but that goes for secular rock as well. And most
American Christians seem to have a deeper need for entertainment than
enlightenment, for at least the past 50 years, when folk music was
all the rage in church. Some sects speak in tongues, some handle
snakes, some use Les Pauls and Marshalls. "Make a joyful noise" seems
to me to be pretty clear.

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John Amato

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Feb 28, 2007, 4:43:35 PM2/28/07
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Since this Thread has evolved kind of off the topic, I
have to repsond
because praise & Worship, Gospel, and Hymn music is a
large part of
what I do ...

There is ABSOLUTELY no difference bewteen CCM
(Christian
Contemporary Music) and today's Rock.

Like McCluen said, The "Music is the Message" .... the
Christian
rock bands are doing exactly what the secular rock
bands are doing (same 500+ db too), only difference is
the lyrics which are SUPPOSED
to be evangelical ... but if you ask me, in trying to
"bring over," or
"win over" the secular rock crowd, the CCM bands have
diluted and watered down the evangelical message to
the point where the "message" gets lost in the "hook."

I am asked to arranged many CCM charts ... and I
refuse if they want to retain the Rock fell ... so,
what I suggest and wind up donng is either "jazzify"
them or still them down with a more calm "Folk-sih" or
light
Folk-Rock feel...

Now, today's Praise & Worship and Gospel is a
different story ... I do many arragements of Gospel
favorites ala Jazz style and harmony ... check some
out on my web site ...

--- Jim Mings <jming...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Bach was a court musician, and his patron would
> ask him to "write a
> Mass because the duke of so-and-so is coming over
> later this week", and
> so it went. The Roman Catholic church's influence
> in those days was
> not just religious, they were a political force, and
> a source for
> employment as well. Those guys were the equivalent
> of today's jingle
> writers, in a way. It was a gig.
>

> Juan, Bach was a Lutheran, I believe. Some
> significant world history to
> catch up on here. I usually dig what you say, but
> Man, you are WAY off
> base here. In what way was Bach's inspired music
> similar to jingle
> writing? This is not the time or place to discuss
> religion, but suffice
> to say, for some the words "to the glory of God" are
> not devoid of
> meaning.
> Jim
>
>


John Amato
Isaiah 55:11



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John Amato

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Feb 28, 2007, 4:47:44 PM2/28/07
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Ron ...exactly... there is absolutely no difference
between today's Rock and CCM (Con. Christian Music)
... The Music is the Message ... more than half the
times you can't even understand the lyrics ... which
are more concerned with hooks than anything elese....

--- Ronald Murray <rmu...@snet.net> wrote:

John Amato
Isaiah 55:11



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awse...@cox.net

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Feb 28, 2007, 4:47:48 PM2/28/07
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Murray
I guess it is whatever floats your boat.

1. Is Round Midnight a Jazz tune? If so, what makes it such? Is it the lyrics or the music?

2. If it is the lyrics, and if you just PLAY Round Midnight (without vocals)then is it still Jazz?

3. What is Round Midnight if you just play it without vocals? I think it is still Jazz due to the structure of the tune.

4. If it is the music that makes Round Midnight Jazz, then this contemporary Christian music isn't Christian, it is the lyrics that are.

That is all I was trying to say.

Andy


---- Ronald Murray <rmu...@snet.net> wrote:

=============


Do you really think God has a playlist? Or that She is a music
critic? Glorifying one's lord comes from the heart, not the chord
changes or rhythms. I don't recall anything in the Bible about
"though shall not turn up to 11" or "power chords are an
abomination". As to whether the crowd moves to the lyrics or the
music, what's the difference? Why are you obsessed with making up
silly rules like this? Jesus himself was said to have disapproved of
public displays of worship anyway, so it seems that it's all about
the earthly, not the heavenly. I happen to think that most Christian
rock is awful, but that goes for secular rock as well. And most
American Christians seem to have a deeper need for entertainment than
enlightenment, for at least the past 50 years, when folk music was
all the rage in church. Some sects speak in tongues, some handle
snakes, some use Les Pauls and Marshalls. "Make a joyful noise" seems
to me to be pretty clear.

awse...@cox.net

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Feb 28, 2007, 4:51:30 PM2/28/07
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, John Amato
Nice to hear a viewpoint from one who actually does this stuff!

Andy

---- John Amato <jama...@yahoo.com> wrote:

=============

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Chuck Botelho

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Feb 28, 2007, 4:51:50 PM2/28/07
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LOL!!!!!!!!

This is a perfect example of why off topics should not be entertained here!

This is a Jazz guitar forum!!

I am quite sure the only reason God allows threads to stray from Jazz guitar topics on this forum, is because He/She/it is spending time better served keeping priests away from altar boys, feeding the starving, sheltering the homeless, preventing war, protecting the innocent, etc,,,

A gig is a gig, and church is a business!

Bless those that are spiritual in whatever way and treat other beings and species with dignity and respect.


Chuck

"stir it up!!!!"


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Ronald Murray

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Feb 28, 2007, 5:16:44 PM2/28/07
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Round Midnight is a beautiful ballad. If sung by a cabaret singer,
it's a ballad. if played by a jazz saxophonist, it's a jazz ballad.
If done by a Christian organist in church, it might well be a
Christian song. Labels are for the lazy. Music is an abstract art
form, and the labels generally are placed by commercial interests to
make it easier to sell the music. You may think Round Midnight is
jazz because of the structure, but you'd be wrong. It's not jazz
until it is improvised on by jazz practitioners. Until then, it's
just another song. Misty isn't a jazz song, but is played by and sung
by jazz artists, of which Johnny Mathis is most decidedly not one.
Just The Way You Are by Billy Joel isn't a jazz tune, but it has a
very fine Phil Woods jazz alto solo in it, and a couple of places
where the changes are "jazzy". Jazz musicians for the past 100 years
have used popular songs as the basis for their improvs and even their
melodies. There are thousands of songs identified with jazz players
that were never intended to be jazz songs. Jazz is in the moment, not
on the paper. "Why contemporary music sounds terrible" is a real
insult to those who make beautiful contemporary music, although it is
a true statement quite often, as it always has been, since the first
log drum and reed flute. If you interested in jazz, you might want to
expand your vision just a bit, unless you think you can play 60s bop
better than Wes, Trane, Miles, Herbie, et al. If you can, more power
to you, but the prospect is unlikely.

Brian Kelly

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Mar 1, 2007, 10:02:57 AM3/1/07
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
I think I might have missed something since I don't know where this turntable discussion started but let me add my two cents.

First the Rega turntables are wonderful and are easy to set up. I have a Rega P-25 that I am finally going to sell to get out of listening to LP's (not a sales pitch just telling you where I am at) but it is not because they aren't wonderful it's that they are a hassle to handle and maintain and expensive to reproduce fully. Besides a good turntable you'll need a good cartridge and an high quality phono preamp.

You can look on eBay for either a Rega, a Moth, a Music Hall, a Thorens or an Ariston (I am probably forgetting a few others) to get a good turntable at a reasonable price or even better check out Audiogon.com. Often these will come with a desirable cartridge already installed so that will get you started.

There is info on turntables all over the net. You should be able to find info easily.


Best
Brian Kelly


----- Original Message -----
From: Choon Boon Lee
To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 2:12 AM
Subject: [jazz_guitar] Re: Why contemporary music sounds terrible


Will replied:

"Go for it!

I know about the storage problems but what the heck, you can get some
really good decks on ebay for not a lot..."

<snip>

Will: Thanks for the encouragement! I will definitely give it a shot in the
coming months.

Ebay Singapore is out for me as the choices at ebay.com.sg are very limited.
I read good reviews about the Regar Planar 2 and Technics SL1200, so I might
give second hand models of those a shot. Turntables also seem to require
lots of tweaking and attention to set up right and maintain, another
deterrent. But in the quest for better sound quality and since I don't seem
to like cd sound, I'll give turn tables a shot and see how it goes. If you
know any dummies guide for newbies getting into turntables, could you share
them with me? Many thanks!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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JVeg...@aol.com

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Mar 1, 2007, 1:49:22 PM3/1/07
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
"Jazz is an overlooked, over-studied, over-discussed art form that brings about many answers as it does the questions, however I want to know why..."

Wasn't it Frank Zappa who said something to the effect of "jazz isn't dead, it smells funny"?


LOL,

JV

Juan Vega

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awse...@cox.net

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Mar 1, 2007, 3:39:57 PM3/1/07
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, Brian Kelly
F Y I...The national chain store TWEETER sells turntables (2 that I see online, a Denon and a Sumiko). Maybe your local store will have more or different ones. So, after you do your investigation, check them out.

http://www.tweeter.com/home/index.jsp

Andy


---- Brian Kelly <bke...@bkellyusa.com> wrote:

=============


I think I might have missed something since I don't know where this turntable discussion started but let me add my two cents.

First the Rega turntables are wonderful and are easy to set up. I have a Rega P-25 that I am finally going to sell to get out of listening to LP's (not a sales pitch just telling you where I am at) but it is not because they aren't wonderful it's that they are a hassle to handle and maintain and expensive to reproduce fully. Besides a good turntable you'll need a good cartridge and an high quality phono preamp.

You can look on eBay for either a Rega, a Moth, a Music Hall, a Thorens or an Ariston (I am probably forgetting a few others) to get a good turntable at a reasonable price or even better check out Audiogon.com. Often these will come with a desirable cartridge already installed so that will get you started.

There is info on turntables all over the net. You should be able to find info easily.

Dan Bailey

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Mar 2, 2007, 1:52:56 AM3/2/07
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Chris Smart <chris_s@...> wrote:

>
> At 04:51 PM 2/28/2007, you wrote:
>
> > This is a perfect example of why off topics should not be
> > entertained here!
>
> Yep. You know how hard it's been refraining from posting Monty
> Python quotes?
> Or Richard Dawkins, or Thomas Jefferson, or George Carlin, or
> Zappa, for that matter. :)

Chris,

Amen, Brother! Don't feel alone my friend. I would throw out some
Sam Harris quotes but I'm afraid I'd get burned at the stake. Yes,
Carlin's 'Send your donations because God is broke' routine is a
classic. LOL

I guess one of the bad things about being a non-believer is that you
don't have worship music – but then again - you can sleep in on
Sundays!

Dan


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Choon Boon Lee

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Mar 2, 2007, 4:08:31 AM3/2/07
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Thanks all, for the helpful info on turntables and for tolerating the
off-topic/tangent question. I'll be checking out the recommended sites bit
by bit.

Will: Thanks for the invite. I'll be joining the hi-fi group!

Have a great weekend everyone! (It's fri evening at this part of the world)


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Jay Mitchell

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Mar 2, 2007, 9:36:34 AM3/2/07
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Dan Bailey wrote:

> I guess one of the bad things about being a
> non-believer is that you don't have worship
> music

The worst thing about being an atheist is you don't have anyone to talk to
when you have an orgasm.
;)

Jay

Chris Smart

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Mar 2, 2007, 12:27:42 PM3/2/07
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About turntables, how much great jazz hasn't been transfered to cd?
I mean truly great albums, not just stuff you would want if say,
you were a completist and had to have everything ever released by a
certain artist...

Chris


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Chris Smart

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Mar 2, 2007, 1:01:56 PM3/2/07
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>
>The worst thing about being an atheist is you don't have anyone to
>talk to
>when you have an orgasm.

Oh, oh randomness! Oh chance!
*kidding*
hahaha. thanks for posting that.
Brightened up my otherwise dull morning, snowed in, and with a bad
head cold moving into my ears.

Chris
P.S.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/carlin.htm

P.P.S. If Dawkins and his ilk are too shrill, try a book called Can
We Be Good Without God, by Robert Buckman.


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Ronald Murray

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Mar 2, 2007, 1:06:06 PM3/2/07
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Only if you have orgasms by yourself (then you'd be a trombonist)...

On Mar 2, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Jay Mitchell wrote:

> Dan Bailey wrote:
>
> > I guess one of the bad things about being a
> > non-believer is that you don't have worship
> > music
>
> The worst thing about being an atheist is you don't have anyone to
> talk to
> when you have an orgasm.
> ;)
>
> Jay
>
>
>

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will_halligan

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Mar 2, 2007, 6:08:54 PM3/2/07
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--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, Chris Smart <chris_s@...> wrote:
>
> About turntables, how much great jazz hasn't been transfered to cd?
> I mean truly great albums, not just stuff you would want if say,
> you were a completist and had to have everything ever released by a
> certain artist...
>
> Chris

All the stuff that will sell will have been transferred – and I can
tell you that much of it has been transferred from vinyl copies and
not from the original tapes.

One studio I knew back in the 1980s used to send out to Woolworths to
buy an LP when they got an order for a CD mastering. When I queried
this with the engineer he said it was either that or wait 6 months to
get permission to use the original tapes – and generally be refused.

In those days the transfer used to be vinyl to Betamax (converted for
audio use,) I suspect nowadays it is vinyl to PC and then processed
by Soundforge or a similar bit of software to remove surface noise
and then processed again to reduce dynamic range. However, I have
been out of the recording industry for a long time so things will
probably have changed.

Will

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Chuck Botelho

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Mar 2, 2007, 4:10:11 PM3/2/07
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Jazz is my worship music!!!

I can twist up "Amazing grace" decently

My lack of talent can be overlooked when people find out how passionate I am regarding making music.

I even played at THE largest church in my area for 2 years
they never so much as offered to buy strings for the bass player or I

I did my time and saw how business was business
(Used and abused no more)

LOL
Isn't "All the things you are" a hymnn?

Chuck
I don't know that I'm a non believer? Just really dissappointed that an entity that claims through organiaztion to have all the power-doesn't do a thing with it for the good of the deserving!


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will_halligan

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Mar 3, 2007, 8:20:54 AM3/3/07
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The finest version of Amazing Grace I have ever heard was the Holmes
Brothers. Top notch jazz/blues musicians with rock solid superb
harmonies. I have seen them twice and each time was completely blown
away - if I needed converting these guys would have done it!

Will

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Chris Smart

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Mar 3, 2007, 9:52:08 AM3/3/07
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Gotta love that line about saving a "wretch like me". NO thanks!
I ain't no wretch.


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awse...@cox.net

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Mar 3, 2007, 8:30:03 AM3/3/07
to jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, will_halligan
There is also a very nice Fingerstyle version done by Ricky Skaggs on the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band "Will the Circle Be Unbroken Vol. II.

Andy

---- will_halligan <wi...@post.com> wrote:

=============


The finest version of Amazing Grace I have ever heard was the Holmes
Brothers. Top notch jazz/blues musicians with rock solid superb
harmonies. I have seen them twice and each time was completely blown
away - if I needed converting these guys would have done it!

Will


Jim Mings

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Mar 3, 2007, 12:14:13 PM3/3/07
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When I first saw the title about terrible contemporary music in this
here group me I thought of vapid music in general culturation. Now, am
sore and wretchedly cornfused by turn of communal digression. Howsa
abouts we ponder why the gittar has them things what you tune it with.
Personally I am concerened, deeply concerened, as 2 why one note
follows another. Also, how do you count music?
Can anybody help? I am lost. Thanks in advance,
Jim

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Jim Mings

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Mar 3, 2007, 12:28:05 PM3/3/07
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Excuse me, but i me have thought of one more question: Why did they
play that note?
And again I ofer my thanks,
Jim

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Dan Bailey

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Mar 3, 2007, 4:05:19 PM3/3/07
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Chris Smart wrote:
>
> Gotta love that line about saving a "wretch like me". NO thanks!
> I ain't no wretch.
>
>

Chris,

Here's a religious song which you might like:

http://melbrooksinqusition.ytmnd.com/

"The Inquisition (what a show)
The Inquistion (here we go)
We know you're wishin' that we'd go away.
But the Inquisition's here and it's here to stay!"

Dan

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Chris Smart

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Mar 3, 2007, 7:15:37 PM3/3/07
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Thanks Dan! That's right up there with "Every Sperm is Sacred", and
the lesser-known "All Things Dull and Ugly", both of which can be
heard on the album Monty Python sings, among other places.

All Things Dull And Ugly lyrics by MONTY PYTHON
All things dull and ugly
All creatures short and squat
All things rude and nasty,
The lord god made the lot.
Each little snake that poisons,
Each little wasp that stings.
He made their brutish venom,
He made their horrid wings.
All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small
All things foul and dangerous
The lord god made them all.
Each nasty little hornet
Each beastly little squid
Who made the spiky urchin
Who made the shocks... he did.
All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small.
Putrid, foul and gangrenous,
The lord god made them all.
Amen.


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Ronald Murray

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Mar 4, 2007, 1:37:31 AM3/4/07
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Jim, you have misconceptions. For instance, one note actually
preceeds another, and, of course, every beat is 1. And, fiddle as you
will, those turny knobs on the end never get you there anyway. Tune
the guitar. You funny.

On Mar 3, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Jim Mings wrote:

> When I first saw the title about terrible contemporary music in this
> here group me I thought of vapid music in general culturation. Now, am
> sore and wretchedly cornfused by turn of communal digression. Howsa
> abouts we ponder why the gittar has them things what you tune it with.
> Personally I am concerened, deeply concerened, as 2 why one note
> follows another. Also, how do you count music?
> Can anybody help? I am lost. Thanks in advance,
> Jim
>
>
>

> Messages in this topic (63)Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
> Messages | Links
>
> Ch

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Jim Mings

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Mar 4, 2007, 10:23:11 AM3/4/07
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Jim, you have misconceptions. For instance, one note actually
preceeds another, and, of course, every beat is 1. And, fiddle as you
will, those turny knobs on the end never get you there anyway. Tune
the guitar.
My Dear Mr. Ronald Murray,
Thank you Sir for sharing my misconceptions, whatever they be. Alas, as
somebody used to say, i am still a little bitty cornfused as to whether
a note comes before ore after another one. Do one count from the start
or the end? Also i have decided that saying "one" at every count is too
much botheration so i have decided to say "duh dud duh" and so on. Is
that proper you think? Also thank you for telling me about the fiddle.
i had just been using a stick up to now. the fiddle helps very much.
And last, gosh darn it, you mean you have to tune the thing oneself? I
bet and suspect that makes playing the gittar pretty dad gum hard,
don't it? I thought it comed tune. well now you tell me! How do one
tell if it be in tun-ed? It seems that is a hole other sore subject so
that will have to wait.
Your friend of the gittar, Jim

Chris Smart

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Mar 4, 2007, 1:38:09 PM3/4/07
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Yousa yousa yousa. Yo is sho edumucated folks.


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daniel martina

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Mar 4, 2007, 9:19:27 PM3/4/07
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because ordinary people is out contemporary music I think..
cheers

Daniel
www.danielmartina.com.ar


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walrus_2000

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Mar 4, 2007, 9:28:50 PM3/4/07
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Also i have decided that saying "one" at every count is too
> much botheration so i have decided to say "duh dud duh" and so on.
Is
>
Don't feel bad iget in trubble at werk bekuz i can only cownt to 4 and
it takes me 5 minitz to put 60 of them pepperoknees on a peetza?


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Mel Williams

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Mar 4, 2007, 10:10:37 PM3/4/07
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I just want to say for the record I agree with you... the original
post had nothing to do with contemporary music or with Christian
music... it had to do with...

Recording technology and overcompressing the recording so that it is
"hot" or loud with little or no true dynamics.

Wow I guess this proves the theory that if a story is repeated over
and over again it eventually strays away from the original topic...

Hmmm sounds like jazz improv to me.

Lol


Another thing: how is it that people who are against music that
doesn't serve god through lyrics or instrumentation are signed up to a
jazz guitar discussion group? doesn't make sense to me?

pEaCe

--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Botelho <gtrbot@...> wrote:
>
> LOL!!!!!!!!
>
> This is a perfect example of why off topics should not be
entertained here!
>
> This is a Jazz guitar forum!!
>
> I am quite sure the only reason God allows threads to stray from
Jazz guitar topics on this forum, is because He/She/it is spending
time better served keeping priests away from altar boys, feeding the
starving, sheltering the homeless, preventing war, protecting the
innocent, etc,,,
>
> A gig is a gig, and church is a business!
>
> Bless those that are spiritual in whatever way and treat other
beings and species with dignity and respect.
>
>
> Chuck
>
> "stir it up!!!!"
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


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Jim Mings

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Mar 5, 2007, 9:40:23 AM3/5/07
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Hmmm sounds like jazz improv to me.
Another thing: how is it that people who are against music that
doesn't serve god through lyrics or instrumentation are signed up to
a jazz guitar discussion group? doesn't make sense to me?
pEaCe
This is a Jazz guitar forum!!
I am quite sure the only reason God allows threads to stray from
Jazz guitar topics on this forum, is because He/She/it is spending
time better served keeping priests away from altar boys, feeding the
starving, sheltering the homeless, preventing war, protecting the
innocent, etc,,,
A gig is a gig, and church is a business!

Bless those that are spiritual in whatever way and treat other
beings and species with dignity and respect.

Hi all,
Anybody else see the inherent contradictions in the above?
It has been my thought that perhaps religion should be off topic in
every day life, but I guess we'd find something else to fight about.
Perhaps whether Bill Evans is deeper than Joe Pass or maybe the
relative seriousity re: Liszt or Chopin. At any rate sarcasm breeds
sarcasm. And in case any one cares, my little dirt road commentary
was Swiftian in intention. It is not cool to offer dignity and
respect and at the same hold George Carlin's middle finger up behind
your back.
What I'd really like to know is how in the world you can bring the
melody up front in a chord melody? Are there any suggestions as to
how to practice for this?
Thanks,
Jim

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Ronald Murray

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Mar 5, 2007, 9:55:42 AM3/5/07
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Well, finally a serious question. According to Bill Leavitt, when
playing chord melody with a pick, the pick describes an arc, so the
best way to bring the melody note out is to make sure that the lowest
point of the arc (nearest the guitar) strikes the melody string.
Also, I learned from my classical studies, if you have a melody note
on a string not the first, you can make a rest-stroke against the
adjacent string, and that will give you a slight accent on the melody
note. I think it's important to move the pock through the strings
quickly, so the arc theory really works. Johnny Smith would be a
great model for chord-melody playing in terms of highlighting the
melody.
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