[jazz_guitar] Bb Blues, Just Inversions
Dave Woods
stay out of every body's way. The bass player can walk chromatically, and
you won't butt heads with him.
Because you're playing three note chords, the Piano player is free to use
any extensions he chooses. You won't butt heads with him either. Here
we're talking about swing time era music. If the setting id Be Bop,
everybody will hate you because 4 to the bar "stiffens up" Be Bop time, and
allows for less "give and Take". It has a tendency to force players to play
"on the beat", and hampers hanging back and catching up. However, the
devices used in 4 to the bar can be played in interjected rhythm phrases
that fit the "Bop" feeling.
Because 4 to the bar is a "pulse" thing, only use the walking and other
embellishing techniques when you've established a good swinging rapport with
the rest of the band. If the groove weakens, drop back and simplify
immediately.
Dave Woods
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Brian Kelly
This is one of the most intelligent things I have ever seen about the application of 4 to the bar style playing. It is for the most part unsuitable for Be-bop or anything beyond the era it was developed in. However there are tons of guys who try to employ it on everything. It's nuts to do that.
Same with the harmonic movement of modern jazz. I completely disagree with the idea or concept of staying out of anybody's way or for that matter them staying out of mine. Play you best stuff is my rule. After 1945 jazz becomes both poly-rhythmic and poly-harmonic. You need to listen to what others are playing and contribute to whatever is happening but everything else is up for grabs as far as I'm concerned. If a piano player ever says anything to me about my getting in his way I just tell them if they've got a problem with that then lay out. After that I loose their number. I don't want to play with guys who can't respond to what is happening on the gig but instead of listening and responding they want to make up rules. The only reason you would need rules like that is if you have no sense of taste and if you don't get off the bandstand.
I'm the same way with guys who claim the drummer is too busy. If they play good it's no problem for me. Ever hear what the Africans are doing with the percussion. Sounds kind of busy to me and they are considered the number one guys for percussion.
Same with the guys who whine about guys playing too many notes. It's pure lunacy and nothing but a self-imposed limitation to me. Tell that to Charlie Parker, John Coltrane or Oscar Peterson.
Alright. That's enough for me for awhile.
Brian Kelly
John Amato
Brian,
I think it's a matter of individual judgment, or what I call "Taste" -- not so much a matter of "getting in the way" but more a matter of super-concern for the music and music making, not "I-Me-or-Mine" but more the Ensemble ... and that involves the much abused and over-used term "artistic" sensibility -- knowing when and where to play and/or not play and/or play this or that ... AND having the right ears in order to compliment the unit ...
... playing with musicians you have often played with sets a groove you've learned what/how to compliment them and fall into a comfort zone that permits more leeway for different roads and paths of expression ... in other words to "experiment" in the units interaction ....
First time playing with another musician, I usually stay right in the pocket until I get used to the other player ... then I'll open up rhythmically and harmonically ...
Yes, I agree with your statement that "everything else is up for grabs" just as long what one "grabs" or reaches for is contributory to "making music" the ultimate and primary goal .. a.k.a no showboating ... we are on the same page ....
Enough said...
John Amato
In a similar vein of 3 and 4-note voicings that "swing" I have 2 studies I wrote for my students based on Denzil Best's "Move" -- written for a Be-bop feel:
3-Voice:
http://chordmelody.org/doc/MoveOn2/._,_
4-Voice:
http://chordmelody.org/doc/MoveOn/
John Amato
Again -- we're on the same page ... meet 'ya at the CODA my man!
John Amato
Isaiah 55:11
________________________________
From: Brian Kelly <bke...@bkellyusa.com>
To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 12:02:06 AM
Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] Bb Blues, Just Inversions
John,
I think we do agree on this. I am just a little more adamant about it since there is a whole group of musicians here that are sort of "jazz Nazis" but they are not protecting the purity of jazz like they claim. Instead, they are really promoting the music a bygone era and at the same time suppressing anything that came later than the swing era. That stuff was old 50 years ago.
I know that good music is timeless but by that definition timeless covers the music of NOW and THEN.
Believe me when I tell you that good judgment and taste are a large part of what I do when I am playing and in the way I respond to others. Also if I am playing with someone I am unfamiliar with I don't just charge ahead until I first try to hear what they are hearing and in the way that they are hearing it. I love to listen to other musicians personal musical vision and I will definitely try to support them but if they turn around and try to throw the handcuffs on me I can get pretty ugly quick. I absolutely won't tolerate it.
Brian
Brian Kelly
I think we do agree on this. I am just a little more adamant about it since there is a whole group of musicians here that are sort of "jazz Nazis" but they are not protecting the purity of jazz like they claim. Instead, they are really promoting the music a bygone era and at the same time suppressing anything that came later than the swing era. That stuff was old 50 years ago.
I know that good music is timeless but by that definition timeless covers the music of NOW and THEN.
Believe me when I tell you that good judgment and taste are a large part of what I do when I am playing and in the way I respond to others. Also if I am playing with someone I am unfamiliar with I don't just charge ahead until I first try to hear what they are hearing and in the way that they are hearing it. I love to listen to other musicians personal musical vision and I will definitely try to support them but if they turn around and try to throw the handcuffs on me I can get pretty ugly quick. I absolutely won't tolerate it.
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: John Amato
To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 10:11 PM
Brian Kelly
I couldn't get this link to work but I looked around on your website and listened to a bunch of your stuff. Very,very nice. Keep up the good work.
Brian
Angelo
guitar and bass. I noticed that on bass when the soloist would go into
something busy, maybe some double-time figure, my friend would also start
playing all these figures, which would push everything to this frenetic
feeling. The reverse was also true. When the soloist was playing long legato
phrases, so was my friend. :-)
What he needed to do was to lay back when the soloist was busy and get busy
when the solist was laying back.
It's like a see-saw. If both people are on the same end, they just sit
there...
John Amato
Try these ... somehow two periods were added to the links (?)
Brian
In a similar vein of 3 and 4-note voicings that "swing" I have 2 studies I wrote for my students based on Denzil Best's "Move" -- written for a Be-bop feel:
3-Voice:
http://chordmelody. org/doc/MoveOn2
4-Voice:
http://chordmelody. org/doc/MoveOn/
John Amato
Isaiah 55:11
________________________________
From: Brian Kelly <bke...@bkellyusa.com>
To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 4:00:11 PM
Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] Bb Blues, Just Inversions
John,
I couldn't get this link to work but I looked around on your website and listened to a bunch of your stuff. Very,very nice. Keep up the good work.
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: John Amato
To: jazz_guitar@ yahoogroups. com
Cc: Brian Kelly ; Dave Woods
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] Bb Blues, Just Inversions
Brian
In a similar vein of 3 and 4-note voicings that "swing" I have 2 studies I wrote for my students based on Denzil Best's "Move" -- written for a Be-bop feel:
3-Voice:
http://chordmelody. org/doc/MoveOn2
4-Voice:
http://chordmelody. org/doc/MoveOn/