Charting The Future Of The Pune Java User Group

[Harshad Oak]

Dear Pune Java,

I have lately had several discussions with Java enthusiasts in Pune about how the Java community in the city is scattered and inactive and how it could be revived. 

The Pune JUG has been around for a very long time and various individuals have contributed to driving the JUG activities in the past. However the current state of affairs is pretty bad. Despite 1000s of passionate Java users in Pune, not even one mail appears on the Pune Java mailing lists every week. I do not see that as a waning of interest in Java but just that considering the inaction on PJUG, developers are using other forums.

I am sure most members on this group want a vibrant Java community in Pune. So thought why not put up a PJUG revival proposal up for voting on the entire group. 

I have dropped this mail to all the 4 Pune Java groups I am aware of. To the best of my knowledge, none of the groups are active.

Here's my proposal -

Let's elect an official Pune Java managing committee for 2009-2010. I am not suggesting that we create any complicated legal entities, but just a team that will be primarily responsible for Pune Java activities. 

Designations are important as they give credit for the voluntary work these guys would put in. The designations could be -

1. President 
2. Vice-president 
3. Secretary 
4. Student Representative

As a 1000 members would have as many or more ideas on what the JUG activities should be, let's not get into that at this time. It would really be up to the elected team to decide on activities in consultation with the group.

Vote on the proposal by just replying with the Apache voting convention -

• +1 :   'Yes lets create a Pune Java managing committee'
• -1 :    'No let's not create a Pune Java managing committee'
• +0 :   'I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm okay with this.'
• -0 :   'I won't get in the way, but I'd rather we didn't do this.'
• -0.5 :   'I don't like this idea, but I can't find any rational justification for my feelings.'
• ++1 :   'Wow! I like this! Let's do it!'
• -0.9 :   'I really don't like this, but I'm not going to stand in the way if everyone else wants to go ahead with it.'
• +0.9 :  'This is a cool idea and i like it, but I don't have time/the skills necessary to help out.'

Thanks,

Harshad

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[Tushar]

+1

On Nov 19, 3:32 pm, Harshad Oak <harshad.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Pune Java,
>
> I have lately had several discussions with Java enthusiasts in Pune about
> how the Java community in the city is scattered and inactive and how it
> could be revived.
>
> The Pune JUG has been around for a very long time and various individuals
> have contributed to driving the JUG activities in the past. However the
> current state of affairs is pretty bad. Despite 1000s of passionate Java
> users in Pune, not even one mail appears on the Pune Java mailing lists
> every week. I do not see that as a waning of interest in Java but just that
> considering the inaction on PJUG, developers are using other forums.
>
> I am sure most members on this group want a vibrant Java community in
> Pune. So thought why not put up a PJUG revival proposal up for voting on the
> entire group.
>
> I have dropped this mail to all the 4 Pune Java groups I am aware of. To the
> best of my knowledge, none of the groups are active.
>
> Here's my proposal -
>
> Let's elect an official Pune Java managing committee for 2009-2010. I am not
> suggesting that we create any complicated legal entities, but just a team
> that will be primarily responsible for Pune Java activities.
>
> Designations are important as they give credit for the voluntary work these
> guys would put in. The designations could be -
>

>    1. President
>    2. Vice-president
>    3. Secretary
>    4. Student Representative

>
> As a 1000 members would have as many or more ideas on what the JUG
> activities should be, let's not get into that at this time. It would really
> be up to the elected team to decide on activities in consultation with the
> group.
>
> Vote on the proposal by just replying with the Apache

> voting<http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html>convention -

>
>    - +1 :   'Yes lets create a Pune Java managing committee'

>    - -1 :    'No let's not create a Pune Java managing committee'
>    - +0 :   'I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm okay with this.'
>    - -0 :   'I won't get in the way, but I'd rather we didn't do this.'
>    - -0.5 :   'I don't like this idea, but I can't find any rational
>    justification for my feelings.'
>    - ++1 :   'Wow! I like this! Let's *do* it!'
>    - -0.9 :   'I *really* don't like this, but I'm not going to stand in the

>    way if everyone else wants to go ahead with it.'

>    - +0.9 :  'This is a cool idea and i like it, but I don't have time/the

[Suhas Kelkar]

+1
__________________________________
Suhas A. Kelkar
Director - Innovation & Incubation Team
BMC Software

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[Harshad Oak]

Thank you all for your participation in this discussion.

@Saager - I am fine with creating a committee after a couple of meets and after we have put some faces to names. Thanks for the offer to host a meet in Dec.

I believe that unless there is a core team driving the thing, it is unlikely to sustain beyond 4-6 months. 

I don't quite understand why designations will be a problem. It's not like the the office bearers will be heading  BCCI and would have crores at their disposal. We can keep the office bearers term to just 1 year so that a lot of people will get an opportunity to learn & drive a community, while they also give a tiny boost to their resumes.

If one wants to contact a company for say space for a meet, free tshirts, free CDs ... or maybe the press, wouldn't it be easier if he is  'President - Pune Java' rather than 'A java developer from Pune'. 

I think the people driving the thing will get lot more done if they have designations. A very important point to note is that the office bearers will become accountable to the community. 

[Harshad Oak]

Hi,

Have shared a page with the current vote count. http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tPzF6Yqz41Da-ODoGTt7c7A&single=true&gid=0&output=html

Please note that there are votes on javapune@googlegroups as well. 

The current standing is Plus 5 & Minus 4. Not sure if Navin's vote is a plus or minus. 

Let the vote run till maybe Monday end of day and then let's take a call. 9 votes is anyway a paltry figure for a group of 1000. Our voting % are even worse than the recent state elections :-)

If we are not having a committee, there are a lot of topics we need to discuss. Perhaps starting with which web group / forum to create/keep & which ones will terminate / redirect to the main group.  Who would own  / moderate etc.

My current status is -

1) Moderator pune-java @yahoo (Moderators on yahoo have surprisingly few rights apart from message approval). 

2) Owner javapune@googlegroups 

@Saager - IMHO, if guilt were to lead to action, with over a 1000 guilty on board, the Pune JUG should never have gone inactive. I think that many regret that Pune does not have an active JUG but very very few have the time & enthusiasm to contribute to the activity. 

I would be happy if the JUG were to thrive, with committee or no committee. It's just that IMHO and based on past experiences; I believe that without a driving force, it won't sustain. 

- Harshad

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Saager Mhatre <saager...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Harshad Oak <harsha...@gmail.com> wrote:

@Saager - I am fine with creating a committee after a couple of meets and after we have put some faces to names. Thanks for the offer to host a meet in Dec.

You're welcome :)
 

I believe that unless there is a core team driving the thing, it is unlikely to sustain beyond 4-6 months. 

I disagree. I've been to a few bosug, bojug & bfpug meets and they do just fine without managerial structure.

I don't quite understand why designations will be a problem. It's not like the the office bearers will be heading  BCCI and would have crores at their disposal. We can keep the office bearers term to just 1 year so that a lot of people will get an opportunity to learn & drive a community, while they also give a tiny boost to their resumes.

Just my $0.02 of pop-psy, but I believe that designations shift guilt. Right now, about 200 Java users in the city are guilty about not having organized a meet; once you designate 4 people to be responsible for this, the remaining 196 have less of a reason to feel guilty.
 

If one wants to contact a company for say space for a meet, free tshirts, free CDs ... or maybe the press, wouldn't it be easier if he is  'President - Pune Java' rather than 'A java developer from Pune'.

Not really, most of this comes through personal contacts. TW Pune ended up hosting the OSDG, Ruby FunDay and several BarCamps out of people having met individual TWers and kept in touch with them.
 

A very important point to note is that the office bearers will become accountable to the community.

IMHO, it works better when each one of us feels individually accountable to the community.

Having personally helped organize several events at ThoughtWorks (both internal and external), I understand why you feel the need to impose specific accountability, but I've seen those structures fail all too often.

Parting note:
I've seen Conway's Law prove its case so many times that I don't shy away from using it as a guideline.
So if we, as a community, do choose to appoint a committee to manage this group, I'll be seriously disappointed.

-- 
Saager Mhatre

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:54 PM, ashishkulkarni_uk <ashishk...@hotmail.com> wrote:

 Hi Harshad,

As you can see, vast majority are opposed to the idea. And if we push something that the vast majority are opposed to, we end up alienating the majority.

As the current group owner, I would not be in favour of that.

I can see where you are coming from with regards to accountability. Yes, there needs to be some accountability.

For approaching companies for freebies, we can simply mention that their brand will be displayed by over a 1000 people. Are they interested in such free publicity? I am sure most businesses will jump at such an opportunity.

What I can say from my experience is that if people get something out of a group, they are more likely to put something back in.

I heard someone was looking to organise meetings. Can we start the process with kicking off the first meeting please?

I would like people to discuss how they want to take the group forward. I am happy to nominate one person in-charge of organising the meetings. And one more person can take on the task of maintaining the online content at www.pune-java.com.

Any volunteers?

Best Regards,

Ashish.

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[Harshad Oak]

Hi,

Have shared a page with the current vote count. http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tPzF6Yqz41Da-ODoGTt7c7A&single=true&gid=0&output=html

Please note that there are votes on javapune@googlegroups as well. 

The current standing is Plus 5 & Minus 4. Not sure if Navin's vote is a plus or minus. 

Let the vote run till maybe Monday end of day and then let's take a call. 9 votes is anyway a paltry figure for a group of 1000. Our voting % are even worse than the recent state elections :-)

If we are not having a committee, there are a lot of topics we need to discuss. Perhaps starting with which web group / forum to create/keep & which ones will terminate / redirect to the main group.  Who would own  & moderate...

My current status is -

1) Moderator pune-java @yahoo (Moderators on yahoo have surprisingly few rights apart from message approval). 

2) Owner javapune@googlegroups 

@Saager - IMHO, if guilt were to lead to action, with over a 1000 guilty on board, the Pune JUG should never have gone inactive. I think that many regret that Pune does not have an active JUG but very very few have the time & enthusiasm to contribute to the activity. 

I would be happy if the JUG were to thrive, with committee or no committee. It's just that IMHO and based on past experiences; I believe that without a driving force, it is unlikely to sustain. 

- Harshad

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Saager Mhatre <saager...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Harshad Oak <harsha...@gmail.com> wrote:

@Saager - I am fine with creating a committee after a couple of meets and after we have put some faces to names. Thanks for the offer to host a meet in Dec.

You're welcome :)
 

I believe that unless there is a core team driving the thing, it is unlikely to sustain beyond 4-6 months. 

I disagree. I've been to a few bosug, bojug & bfpug meets and they do just fine without managerial structure.

I don't quite understand why designations will be a problem. It's not like the the office bearers will be heading  BCCI and would have crores at their disposal. We can keep the office bearers term to just 1 year so that a lot of people will get an opportunity to learn & drive a community, while they also give a tiny boost to their resumes.

Just my $0.02 of pop-psy, but I believe that designations shift guilt. Right now, about 200 Java users in the city are guilty about not having organized a meet; once you designate 4 people to be responsible for this, the remaining 196 have less of a reason to feel guilty.
 

If one wants to contact a company for say space for a meet, free tshirts, free CDs ... or maybe the press, wouldn't it be easier if he is  'President - Pune Java' rather than 'A java developer from Pune'.

Not really, most of this comes through personal contacts. TW Pune ended up hosting the OSDG, Ruby FunDay and several BarCamps out of people having met individual TWers and kept in touch with them.
 

A very important point to note is that the office bearers will become accountable to the community.

IMHO, it works better when each one of us feels individually accountable to the community.

Having personally helped organize several events at ThoughtWorks (both internal and external), I understand why you feel the need to impose specific accountability, but I've seen those structures fail all too often.

Parting note:
I've seen Conway's Law prove its case so many times that I don't shy away from using it as a guideline.
So if we, as a community, do choose to appoint a committee to manage this group, I'll be seriously disappointed.

-- 
Saager Mhatre

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:54 PM, ashishkulkarni_uk <ashishk...@hotmail.com> wrote:

 Hi Harshad,

As you can see, vast majority are opposed to the idea. And if we push something that the vast majority are opposed to, we end up alienating the majority.

As the current group owner, I would not be in favour of that.

I can see where you are coming from with regards to accountability. Yes, there needs to be some accountability.

For approaching companies for freebies, we can simply mention that their brand will be displayed by over a 1000 people. Are they interested in such free publicity? I am sure most businesses will jump at such an opportunity.

What I can say from my experience is that if people get something out of a group, they are more likely to put something back in.

I heard someone was looking to organise meetings. Can we start the process with kicking off the first meeting please?

I would like people to discuss how they want to take the group forward. I am happy to nominate one person in-charge of organising the meetings. And one more person can take on the task of maintaining the online content at www.pune-java.com.

Any volunteers?

Best Regards,

Ashish.

--- In pune...@yahoogroups.com, Harshad Oak <harshad.lists@...> wrote:
>

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[Harshad Oak]

Hey, Where did that come from??? Do you really think this is about me wanting to be President Pune Java? ROTF

I dread that there might be others thinking on similar lines. Also as we are nowhere near consensus, pushing for a majority based decision anyway seems improper. So I would like to humbly withdraw my call for a vote. Thank you all for your comments & participation.

Ok... So now that the vote & committee thing is out of the way, what next?

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Ashish Kulkarni <ashishk...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi Harshad,

 

I am not sure what this voting is for. If it is to setup designations, my firm belief is that these are just for vanity and are not going to serve any real purpose. But if you want to be called the President of Pune-Java and it makes you happy, go for it.

 

Hi Saager,

 

Please feel free to kick-off meetings and do let me know if you need any help.

 

Dear all,

 

Are there any members in UK running a business and looking for help with their business? If so, please contact me.

 

Best Regards,

 

Ashish.

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From: pune...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pune...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harshad Oak

Sent: 20 November 2009 18:37
To: pune...@yahoogroups.com; Java...@googlegroups.com; Pune...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Pune-Java] Re: Charting The Future Of The Pune Java User Group

 

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[Dhananjay Nene]

Jumping in a little late on this one .. but here's my thoughts.

Activating and recharging the group : +100
Designations : Avoidable. Makes sense to go with the decision being made based on the preferences of the people who are ready to commit time, energy and effort to the activity. However I don't believe a designation is required or makes things easier (even for getting CDs, TShirts etc.) or that designation encourages either commitment or accountability. Having said that there is already a precedence where the List Administrator (for the yahoogroup) identifies one person different from everyone else and allows URLs to be inserted at the end of each mail in the mailing list. So that makes the case to treat everyone equally and not have designations and privileges a little harder ??

Dhananjay

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Harshad Oak <harsha...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Pradyumna]

++1....let's do it.

Thx,
Pradyumna

On Nov 19, 3:32 pm, Harshad Oak <harshad.li...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Pune Java,
>
> I have lately had several discussions with Java enthusiasts in Pune about
> how the Java community in the city is scattered and inactive and how it
> could be revived.
>
> The Pune JUG has been around for a very long time and various individuals
> have contributed to driving the JUG activities in the past. However the
> current state of affairs is pretty bad. Despite 1000s of passionate Java
> users in Pune, not even one mail appears on the Pune Java mailing lists
> every week. I do not see that as a waning of interest in Java but just that
> considering the inaction on PJUG, developers are using other forums.
>
> I am sure most members on this group want a vibrant Java community in
> Pune. So thought why not put up a PJUG revival proposal up for voting on the
> entire group.
>
> I have dropped this mail to all the 4 Pune Java groups I am aware of. To the
> best of my knowledge, none of the groups are active.
>
> Here's my proposal -
>
> Let's elect an official Pune Java managing committee for 2009-2010. I am not
> suggesting that we create any complicated legal entities, but just a team
> that will be primarily responsible for Pune Java activities.
>
> Designations are important as they give credit for the voluntary work these
> guys would put in. The designations could be -
>

>    1. President
>    2. Vice-president
>    3. Secretary

>    4. Student Representative

>
> As a 1000 members would have as many or more ideas on what the JUG
> activities should be, let's not get into that at this time. It would really
> be up to the elected team to decide on activities in consultation with the
> group.
>
> Vote on the proposal by just replying with the Apache

> voting<http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html>convention -

>
>    - +1 :   'Yes lets create a Pune Java managing committee'

>    - -1 :    'No let's not create a Pune Java managing committee'
>    - +0 :   'I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm okay with this.'
>    - -0 :   'I won't get in the way, but I'd rather we didn't do this.'
>    - -0.5 :   'I don't like this idea, but I can't find any rational
>    justification for my feelings.'

>    - ++1 :   'Wow! I like this! Let's *do* it!'

>    - -0.9 :   'I *really* don't like this, but I'm not going to stand in the

>    way if everyone else wants to go ahead with it.'

>    - +0.9 :  'This is a cool idea and i like it, but I don't have time/the

[Kalpesh Pande]

++1..... lets do it ...........

Regards,
Kalpesh Pande

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