#241 Worst User Interface of All Time
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anon
Apr 14, 2009, 9:28:57 AM4/14/09
to The Java Posse
I just listened to 241 about user interfaces and Joe, I think, said
that the number one rule for UI design is not to expose the underlying
data structure. This got me thinking about some software I use that
does exactly that, expose its inner structure, and I would like to
nominate it for the worst UI of all time.
I wont give details of the software or suppliers because my company is
touchy about criticism of it (they spent a lot of money - according to
the previous CEO the system had cost $100 M up to the point of
deployment) and they wouldn't take kindly to public shaming of them or
their suppliers.
Everything in this system is a table, actually multiple tables to do
even the simplest thing. People in the system are not known by name;
but by a long number, I suspect this is a database key. To make
matters worse you are not always the same number, it depends what
operation you are doing. Similarly projects are numbers, very long
ones! To give you an example I will describe effort logging, I could
pick any aspect of the system, it is universally bad, but I
particularly dislike the effort logging because it is really simple to
do effort logging well and this system doesn't, so here goes.
1. You log in, which takes forever, and after many clicks and more
waiting you are presented with an empty form for that weeks effort
logging. This will have taken at few minutes to get to this empty
form!
2. You request what projects you can log to for that week.
3. Wait many seconds whilst a table is filled in with project
descriptions that are very short and hence often non-unique, I have
two called Theme Management for example, and your number for that
project (yes that's correct each person has a different number in each
project they are in - actually you need two numbers per project per
person). You can't check your numbers, you can't find out more about
projects. If you are unsure which project is which you just have to
guess.
4. Copy the lines from the first table into a second table (why it
doesn't just skip 1 - 4 and open up with the second table filled in is
beyond me). This is harder than you might think, since it only shows
five lines at a time in each table and you have to scroll to get all
the projects - scrolling takes forever (10 seconds per line or
thereabouts). There is a shortcut if you want all the projects to be
copied to the second table.
5. At this point each project from the first table is split into two,
the first line is the hours you get paid for, the second line is the
excess hours that you worked that you don't get paid for! These excess
hours are called statistical hours. You can possible find statistical
hours out for your project but I don't know how nor does anyone I have
asked (including the trainers at the 2 hour training course I went on
to learn how to fill in the time sheet - yes, really, 2 hours for the
time sheet alone).
6. Each day for the first line, paid for line, of each project has to
add up to exactly 7.35 hours (that is not 7 hours 35 mins - that is 7
hours and 35 hundredths of an hour) and each entry you make is rounded
to two decimal places (don't try anything smart like, 3.33333 hours).
I have 16 projects that I log to and have ended up developing a
spreadsheet that calculates the values correctly rounded to 2 decimal
places to enter in the table for each project.
7. You can put what you like for the statistical hours, second line
for each project - they disappear into a black hole anyway.
8. Again this table is limited to five lines and takes about 10
seconds to scroll per line. 5 lines are particularly annoying since
there are two lines per project and therefore you can only see 2.5
projects at a time. Would a 6th line have killed them - or for that
matter a whole page.
9. After you have filled in all the boxes on the second table you
press check. It then tells you if there is a problem, however it
doesn't pinpoint the cell that has a problem, just the column that has
a problem. The error message is "problem with [date]" - no hint as to
what the problem is. If you have a row wrong, say your wrong number
for that project, then it lists all columns in the table as in error,
i.e. the whole table, but does not tell you which row is wrong.
10. Then you submit the table, when check confirms everything is OK.
11. It comes back listing the time you entered for each day and each
project, i.e. the information you just fed in. Only this time it is
formatted as a list and not as a table and is particularly difficult
to follow. Actually I don't even bother looking at the list any longer
- I can't follow it anyway.
12. Assuming that you are happy with the list you hit save. If you
have anything wrong at this stage, say you forgot to hit check, step
9, and there is a problem then it bombs and you go back to 1 (do not
pass go and do not collect $200).
13. Assuming that save worked, then takes the system about 30 seconds
to a minute before you can proceed with the next weeks worth of effort
logging. Only rather than give you the next screen it takes you back
to the system home screen. So you are right back at point 1 again for
the next week - arghhhhhhhh.
14. If you forget any of these steps, e.g. save at 12, or if the
system crashes, which it regularly does, then you loose - the lot - go
back to 1 and start again.
I think almost anyone could have made filling in a time sheet easier!
And remember everyone in the company has to do this for each day of
each week (even if you are on holiday - and no you can't do your
holidays in advance or arrears you are expected to log on from holiday
via VPN and complete your time sheet!).
Well it was therapeutic for me to describe just how awful the system
is; but the question is, can you do worse?
that the number one rule for UI design is not to expose the underlying
data structure. This got me thinking about some software I use that
does exactly that, expose its inner structure, and I would like to
nominate it for the worst UI of all time.
I wont give details of the software or suppliers because my company is
touchy about criticism of it (they spent a lot of money - according to
the previous CEO the system had cost $100 M up to the point of
deployment) and they wouldn't take kindly to public shaming of them or
their suppliers.
Everything in this system is a table, actually multiple tables to do
even the simplest thing. People in the system are not known by name;
but by a long number, I suspect this is a database key. To make
matters worse you are not always the same number, it depends what
operation you are doing. Similarly projects are numbers, very long
ones! To give you an example I will describe effort logging, I could
pick any aspect of the system, it is universally bad, but I
particularly dislike the effort logging because it is really simple to
do effort logging well and this system doesn't, so here goes.
1. You log in, which takes forever, and after many clicks and more
waiting you are presented with an empty form for that weeks effort
logging. This will have taken at few minutes to get to this empty
form!
2. You request what projects you can log to for that week.
3. Wait many seconds whilst a table is filled in with project
descriptions that are very short and hence often non-unique, I have
two called Theme Management for example, and your number for that
project (yes that's correct each person has a different number in each
project they are in - actually you need two numbers per project per
person). You can't check your numbers, you can't find out more about
projects. If you are unsure which project is which you just have to
guess.
4. Copy the lines from the first table into a second table (why it
doesn't just skip 1 - 4 and open up with the second table filled in is
beyond me). This is harder than you might think, since it only shows
five lines at a time in each table and you have to scroll to get all
the projects - scrolling takes forever (10 seconds per line or
thereabouts). There is a shortcut if you want all the projects to be
copied to the second table.
5. At this point each project from the first table is split into two,
the first line is the hours you get paid for, the second line is the
excess hours that you worked that you don't get paid for! These excess
hours are called statistical hours. You can possible find statistical
hours out for your project but I don't know how nor does anyone I have
asked (including the trainers at the 2 hour training course I went on
to learn how to fill in the time sheet - yes, really, 2 hours for the
time sheet alone).
6. Each day for the first line, paid for line, of each project has to
add up to exactly 7.35 hours (that is not 7 hours 35 mins - that is 7
hours and 35 hundredths of an hour) and each entry you make is rounded
to two decimal places (don't try anything smart like, 3.33333 hours).
I have 16 projects that I log to and have ended up developing a
spreadsheet that calculates the values correctly rounded to 2 decimal
places to enter in the table for each project.
7. You can put what you like for the statistical hours, second line
for each project - they disappear into a black hole anyway.
8. Again this table is limited to five lines and takes about 10
seconds to scroll per line. 5 lines are particularly annoying since
there are two lines per project and therefore you can only see 2.5
projects at a time. Would a 6th line have killed them - or for that
matter a whole page.
9. After you have filled in all the boxes on the second table you
press check. It then tells you if there is a problem, however it
doesn't pinpoint the cell that has a problem, just the column that has
a problem. The error message is "problem with [date]" - no hint as to
what the problem is. If you have a row wrong, say your wrong number
for that project, then it lists all columns in the table as in error,
i.e. the whole table, but does not tell you which row is wrong.
10. Then you submit the table, when check confirms everything is OK.
11. It comes back listing the time you entered for each day and each
project, i.e. the information you just fed in. Only this time it is
formatted as a list and not as a table and is particularly difficult
to follow. Actually I don't even bother looking at the list any longer
- I can't follow it anyway.
12. Assuming that you are happy with the list you hit save. If you
have anything wrong at this stage, say you forgot to hit check, step
9, and there is a problem then it bombs and you go back to 1 (do not
pass go and do not collect $200).
13. Assuming that save worked, then takes the system about 30 seconds
to a minute before you can proceed with the next weeks worth of effort
logging. Only rather than give you the next screen it takes you back
to the system home screen. So you are right back at point 1 again for
the next week - arghhhhhhhh.
14. If you forget any of these steps, e.g. save at 12, or if the
system crashes, which it regularly does, then you loose - the lot - go
back to 1 and start again.
I think almost anyone could have made filling in a time sheet easier!
And remember everyone in the company has to do this for each day of
each week (even if you are on holiday - and no you can't do your
holidays in advance or arrears you are expected to log on from holiday
via VPN and complete your time sheet!).
Well it was therapeutic for me to describe just how awful the system
is; but the question is, can you do worse?
karl....@googlemail.com
Apr 14, 2009, 11:25:16 AM4/14/09
to The Java Posse
Sounds self explanatory to me, whats wrong with tables?
David Linsin
Apr 14, 2009, 1:55:46 PM4/14/09
to java...@googlegroups.com
Sounds like SAP
with kind regards,
David Linsin
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
email: dli...@gmail.com
blog: http://dlinsin.blogspot.com
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Robert Casto
Apr 14, 2009, 2:19:30 PM4/14/09
to java...@googlegroups.com
You don't work for a university by chance, do you? A design like this sounds like it could have been made by students as a project.Robert Casto
www.robertcasto.com
casto....@gmail.com
www.robertcasto.com
casto....@gmail.com
Steven Herod
Apr 14, 2009, 3:51:10 PM4/14/09
to The Java Posse
I agree. Sounds exactly like sap.
On Apr 15, 3:55 am, David Linsin <dlin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sounds like SAP
>
> with kind regards,
>
> David Linsin
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> email: dlin...@gmail.com
> smime.p7s
> 3KViewDownload
On Apr 15, 3:55 am, David Linsin <dlin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sounds like SAP
>
> with kind regards,
>
> David Linsin
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> 3KViewDownload
anon
Apr 14, 2009, 4:07:56 PM4/14/09
to The Java Posse
On Apr 15, 1:25 am, "k...@kent.ac.uk" <karl.smo...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
had to go on numerous training courses to use it and there are masses
of online help systems. Which incidentally you can't access from
within the system, instead you have to manually navigate to in a
browser. Unfortunately the organization of the online help is badly
organized and no one can find the relevant pages.
> whats wrong with tables?
If I designed a time sheet program I would look at the persons diary,
the projects that are applicable to them, the allocations that the
person has against each project and produce a calendar like interface
which suggested project times much like a calendar booking might be
shown. You could have a different color for each project, show on a
separate pane all the possible projects and give statistics for each
project. I would describe people by their name and projects with the
project name and allow you to click through to see more information.
In the ideal world you would simply use your calendar, no separate app
at all.
Yes a calendar type interface is sort of like a table, but it is not a
rigid one item per box matrix. It allows for overlap, arbitrary
boundaries, and useful summary information like per day, per week, per
month, per project etc. it allows zooming in and out, clicking through
for more info, fast scrolling.
wrote:
> Sounds self explanatory to me,
The system is so self explanatory that every person in the company has
had to go on numerous training courses to use it and there are masses
of online help systems. Which incidentally you can't access from
within the system, instead you have to manually navigate to in a
browser. Unfortunately the organization of the online help is badly
organized and no one can find the relevant pages.
> whats wrong with tables?
If I designed a time sheet program I would look at the persons diary,
the projects that are applicable to them, the allocations that the
person has against each project and produce a calendar like interface
which suggested project times much like a calendar booking might be
shown. You could have a different color for each project, show on a
separate pane all the possible projects and give statistics for each
project. I would describe people by their name and projects with the
project name and allow you to click through to see more information.
In the ideal world you would simply use your calendar, no separate app
at all.
Yes a calendar type interface is sort of like a table, but it is not a
rigid one item per box matrix. It allows for overlap, arbitrary
boundaries, and useful summary information like per day, per week, per
month, per project etc. it allows zooming in and out, clicking through
for more info, fast scrolling.
anon
Apr 14, 2009, 4:12:05 PM4/14/09
to The Java Posse
My company is touchy about the project because it hasn't gone well and
it was very expensive, so I don't want to embarrass them by saying
which software they purchased. Also the software was customized by a
third party to the specification my company gave, so I am not sure who
is to to blame for the poor design: the original vendor, the third
party customizer, my company, or all three.
it was very expensive, so I don't want to embarrass them by saying
which software they purchased. Also the software was customized by a
third party to the specification my company gave, so I am not sure who
is to to blame for the poor design: the original vendor, the third
party customizer, my company, or all three.
anon
Apr 14, 2009, 4:17:06 PM4/14/09
to The Java Posse
On Apr 15, 4:19 am, Robert Casto <casto.rob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You don't work for a university by chance, do you? A design like this sounds
> like it could have been made by students as a project.
No I don't work for a university, but funnily enough one of the guys
> You don't work for a university by chance, do you? A design like this sounds
> like it could have been made by students as a project.
at work does teach at a uni. and he describes the system as just like
the stuff he gets back in first year assignments.
anon
Apr 14, 2009, 4:17:58 PM4/14/09
to The Java Posse
On Apr 15, 5:51 am, Steven Herod <steven.he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree. Sounds exactly like sap.
So are you voting SAP as the all time worst UI> I agree. Sounds exactly like sap.
Steven Herod
Apr 14, 2009, 6:22:43 PM4/14/09
to The Java Posse
Well, it's probably just some SAP implementations and custom Lotus
Notes databases I've met that would tie for number one.
Notes databases I've met that would tie for number one.
Joshua Marinacci
Apr 15, 2009, 2:45:17 PM4/15/09
to java...@googlegroups.com
The moral of the story: humans don't think in terms of database tables
Mikael Grev
Apr 16, 2009, 11:39:25 AM4/16/09
to The Java Posse
Or, programmers don't think like humans. ;)
Joshua Marinacci
Apr 16, 2009, 11:44:47 AM4/16/09
to java...@googlegroups.com
More true than you might realize. :)
Joe Nuxoll (Java Posse)
Apr 16, 2009, 6:26:42 PM4/16/09
to The Java Posse
I had to stop at #4 due to sheer imaginary pain. That system sounds
like total pants.
- Joe
like total pants.
- Joe
Alexander Snaps
Apr 17, 2009, 12:47:41 AM4/17/09
to java...@googlegroups.com
If only (enterprise application)? developers could stop thinking in terms of database tables!
(Does that involve developers should be more like humans..?!)--
Alexander Snaps <alex....@gmail.com>
http://www.jroller.com/page/greenhorn
http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandersnaps
(Does that involve developers should be more like humans..?!)
Alexander Snaps <alex....@gmail.com>
http://www.jroller.com/page/greenhorn
http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandersnaps
Vince O'Sullivan
Apr 17, 2009, 4:31:31 AM4/17/09
to The Java Posse
On Apr 14, 2:28 pm, anon <howard.lov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> each week (even if you are on holiday - and no you can't do your
> holidays in advance or arrears you are expected to log on from holiday
> via VPN and complete your time sheet!).
Somehow it brought this page to mind...
> each week (even if you are on holiday - and no you can't do your
> holidays in advance or arrears you are expected to log on from holiday
> via VPN and complete your time sheet!).
http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2007/03/is_your_app_an_.html
anon
Apr 17, 2009, 8:01:33 PM4/17/09
to The Java Posse
I would say this app is the anal-retentive guy
> Somehow it brought this page to mind...http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2007/03/is_your...
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