Heh, and to think that as far as I understand the JavaFX movement, it
all _started_ with F3 ("Form follows function"), a scripting language
developed by Chris Oliver. F3 is to JavaFX Script as Oak is to Java,
i.e. v0.9.
On Sep 20, 8:33 pm, Kevin Wright <kev.lee.wri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On the plus side, my (and many others') prediction that Sun/Oracle > will be announcing JavaFX at JavaOne for the third year in a row has > come true!
> On Sep 20, 8:33 pm, Kevin Wright <kev.lee.wri...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Could this be true? The twitterverse certainly seems to think so right > now. > > Scala, Clojure, Groovy, JRuby, Jython, etc. all invited to the party!
> > So the question is; who'll be first with a good DSL substitute for Fx > > Script? The race is on...
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> Could this be true? The twitterverse certainly seems to think so right > now. > Scala, Clojure, Groovy, JRuby, Jython, etc. all invited to the party!
> So the question is; who'll be first with a good DSL substitute for Fx > Script? The race is on...
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I hope you have some money on the ridiculous OP. I'm guessing that
JavaFX 2.0 is what was rumored to be JavaFX 1.4 with the Prism
runtime, full data grid controls, full 3D, etc.
You can already use Scala or other JVM languages with JavaFX. You have
to use FX script for the actual interface itself, but most JavaFX apps
use another JVM-language for other application logic.
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 21:26, clay <claytonw...@gmail.com> wrote: > I hope you have some money on the ridiculous OP. I'm guessing that > JavaFX 2.0 is what was rumored to be JavaFX 1.4 with the Prism > runtime, full data grid controls, full 3D, etc.
> You can already use Scala or other JVM languages with JavaFX. You have > to use FX script for the actual interface itself, but most JavaFX apps > use another JVM-language for other application logic.
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> Unfortunately it's true.... I was in the JavaFX 2.0 session.
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Kevin Wright <kev.lee.wri...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> Could this be true? The twitterverse certainly seems to think so right >> now. >> Scala, Clojure, Groovy, JRuby, Jython, etc. all invited to the party!
>> So the question is; who'll be first with a good DSL substitute for Fx >> Script? The race is on...
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Java Posse" group. >> To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> javaposse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<javaposse%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
> -- > - Jo
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> On Sep 20, 2:13 pm, Jo Voordeckers <jo.voordeck...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Unfortunately it's true.... I was in the JavaFX 2.0 session.
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On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 21:33, clay <claytonw...@gmail.com> wrote: > wow! I would have lost that bet...
> On Sep 20, 2:13 pm, Jo Voordeckers <jo.voordeck...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Unfortunately it's true.... I was in the JavaFX 2.0 session.
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> Would there be in fact a problem to re-create the JavaFX language ? > Forbidden probably...
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 21:33, clay <claytonw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> wow! I would have lost that bet...
>> On Sep 20, 2:13 pm, Jo Voordeckers <jo.voordeck...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Unfortunately it's true.... I was in the JavaFX 2.0 session.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Java Posse" group. >> To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> javaposse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<javaposse%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
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> I was under the impression this approach had many benefits from easier > tooling to easier maintenance. What benefits does moving it to an API > that outweigh the scripting benefits?
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I'm reading this quickly (I'm eating). This sounds good for some things (reusability, which BTW sounds as a "return to the origin", since I remember that in 2007 Sun was saying in a way that JavaFX runtime could have been used by the regular JavaVM (which didn't prove true as there were not "blessed" APIs. So far so good. For the dropping of the language, it's bad. I'm curious about binding! If Oracle plans to revamp BeansBinding or such... and eventually provide some language level support. I was at the Java 7 keynote, but I didn't follow it with full attention :o) I saw Mark possibly talking about fully supported properties, so I suppose there will be something related to binding. Anybody can comment?
PS OTOH, the JavaFX script compiler is the JavaFX part that is open sourced. I suppose JavaFX script could be fully supported by aficionados if they want to keep it live.
> On 20 September 2010 21:03, Jan Goyvaerts™ <java.arti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Would there be in fact a problem to re-create the JavaFX language ? >> Forbidden probably...
>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 21:33, clay <claytonw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> wow! I would have lost that bet...
>>> On Sep 20, 2:13 pm, Jo Voordeckers <jo.voordeck...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > Unfortunately it's true.... I was in the JavaFX 2.0 session.
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "The Java Posse" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> javaposse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<javaposse%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com> >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
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I think that all this move is going to accomplish is to push even more developers toward SWT/JFace/Eclipse RCP.
Seriously, Java FX has close to zero adoption, the only times I ever hear about it are either during Java One or from Sun employees or JavaFX book authors.
-- Cédric
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Fabrizio Giudici <
fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it> wrote: > On 9/20/10 12:31 , Jan Goyvaerts™ wrote:
>> Is it going to be Swing's successor then ?
> I'm reading this quickly (I'm eating). This sounds good for some things > (reusability, which BTW sounds as a "return to the origin", since I remember > that in 2007 Sun was saying in a way that JavaFX runtime could have been > used by the regular JavaVM (which didn't prove true as there were not > "blessed" APIs. So far so good. For the dropping of the language, it's bad. > I'm curious about binding! If Oracle plans to revamp BeansBinding or such... > and eventually provide some language level support. I was at the Java 7 > keynote, but I didn't follow it with full attention :o) I saw Mark possibly > talking about fully supported properties, so I suppose there will be > something related to binding. Anybody can comment?
> PS OTOH, the JavaFX script compiler is the JavaFX part that is open > sourced. I suppose JavaFX script could be fully supported by aficionados if > they want to keep it live.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > javaposse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<javaposse%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
Well if they give JavaFX a /really/ nice Java API so one can use it from Java as easily as Swing, then there's nothing more compelling about SWT due to this announcement.
SWT has no point over Swing at this point (vs. when it was originally created) unless you or your users are /really /hung up on widgets or fonts tracking the native platforms /perfectly/. Some of us really and truly could care less. Just give us a decent UI that runs on any desktop OS without any extra native libraries, etc (which kills the notion of SWT immediately) and a reasonable API (which Swing has in my book). The rest of the Eclipse RCP might be nice -- but it's "contaminated" by SWT for those who want no part of SWT.
> I think that all this move is going to accomplish is to push even more > developers toward SWT/JFace/Eclipse RCP.
> Seriously, Java FX has close to zero adoption, the only times I ever > hear about it are either during Java One or from Sun employees or > JavaFX book authors.
> -- > Cédric
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Fabrizio Giudici > <fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it <mailto:fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it>> > wrote:
> On 9/20/10 12:31 , Jan Goyvaerts™ wrote:
> Is it going to be Swing's successor then ?
> I'm reading this quickly (I'm eating). This sounds good for some > things (reusability, which BTW sounds as a "return to the origin", > since I remember that in 2007 Sun was saying in a way that JavaFX > runtime could have been used by the regular JavaVM (which didn't > prove true as there were not "blessed" APIs. So far so good. For > the dropping of the language, it's bad. I'm curious about binding! > If Oracle plans to revamp BeansBinding or such... and eventually > provide some language level support. I was at the Java 7 keynote, > but I didn't follow it with full attention :o) I saw Mark possibly > talking about fully supported properties, so I suppose there will > be something related to binding. Anybody can comment?
> PS OTOH, the JavaFX script compiler is the JavaFX part that is > open sourced. I suppose JavaFX script could be fully supported by > aficionados if they want to keep it live.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com > <mailto:javaposse@googlegroups.com>. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > javaposse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > <mailto:javaposse%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
> -- > Cédric
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > javaposse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Jess Holle <je...@ptc.com> wrote: > Well if they give JavaFX a *really* nice Java API so one can use it from > Java as easily as Swing, then there's nothing more compelling about SWT due > to this announcement.
> SWT has no point over Swing at this point (vs. when it was originally > created) unless you or your users are *really *hung up on widgets or fonts > tracking the native platforms *perfectly*. Some of us really and truly > could care less.
You probably mean "could not care less", otherwise you're agreeing with me :-)
A lot of people care about applications looking like the host OS they are running in, and SWT/JFace/EclipseRCP is way ahead of Swing in that area.
> Just give us a decent UI that runs on any desktop OS without any extra > native libraries, etc (which kills the notion of SWT immediately)
How so? Swing uses native libraries as well (well, AWT does). They are just implementing the UI at a different level than SWT.
The whole "native libraries are evil" thing died more than ten years ago.
and a reasonable API (which Swing has in my book). The rest of the Eclipse
> RCP might be nice -- but it's "contaminated" by SWT for those who want no > part of SWT.
Sounds like a pretty arbitrary and emotional position, but whatever works for you.
On Sep 20, 10:25 pm, Fabrizio Giudici <fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it>
wrote:
[...]
> PS OTOH, the JavaFX script compiler is the JavaFX part that is open
> sourced. I suppose JavaFX script could be fully supported by aficionados
> if they want to keep it live.
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Jess Holle <je...@ptc.com> wrote:
>> Well if they give JavaFX a *really* nice Java API so one can use it from >> Java as easily as Swing, then there's nothing more compelling about SWT due >> to this announcement.
>> SWT has no point over Swing at this point (vs. when it was originally >> created) unless you or your users are *really *hung up on widgets or >> fonts tracking the native platforms *perfectly*. Some of us really and >> truly could care less.
> You probably mean "could not care less", otherwise you're agreeing with me > :-)
> A lot of people care about applications looking like the host OS they are > running in, and SWT/JFace/EclipseRCP is way ahead of Swing in that area.
i actually too do not care if they look like the native platform as long as they look decent
>> Just give us a decent UI that runs on any desktop OS without any extra >> native libraries, etc (which kills the notion of SWT immediately)
> How so? Swing uses native libraries as well (well, AWT does). They are just > implementing the UI at a different level than SWT.
the only difference is that those native libraries come with the jre. For example, on solaris / opensolaris, its a little hard to use SWT based applications - a while back i had to manually compile eclipse and the rcp in order to work (my work machine is an opensolaris)
> The whole "native libraries are evil" thing died more than ten years ago.
> and a reasonable API (which Swing has in my book). The rest of the >> Eclipse RCP might be nice -- but it's "contaminated" by SWT for those who >> want no part of SWT.
> Sounds like a pretty arbitrary and emotional position, but whatever works > for you.
> -- > Cédric
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> I think that all this move is going to accomplish is to push even more > developers toward SWT/JFace/Eclipse RCP.
> Seriously, Java FX has close to zero adoption, the only times I ever > hear about it are either during Java One or from Sun employees or > JavaFX book authors.
The latter part of the statement is not a proof of the former. For instance, I almost don't know a single person working on SWT (the exception being from the past week), and this doesn't prove that nobody is using SWT. In any case, the large increase of adoption of the NetBeans Platform in the industry is related to the fact that many don't like SWT (and hence the Eclipse Platform).
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Fabrizio Giudici <
fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it> wrote: > In any case, the large increase of adoption of the NetBeans Platform in the > industry is related to the fact that many don't like SWT (and hence the > Eclipse Platform).
At the risk of being snarky, I'll go ahead and say that just like JavaFX, the only times I ever hear about NetBeans is during JavaOne or from Sun employees...
From my experience, NetBeans has been reduced to a minuscule niche compared to IDEA and Eclipse.
> About time... now let's get some resources back to core Java.
> On Sep 20, 8:33 pm, Kevin Wright <kev.lee.wri...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Could this be true? The twitterverse certainly seems to think so right > now. > > Scala, Clojure, Groovy, JRuby, Jython, etc. all invited to the party!
> > So the question is; who'll be first with a good DSL substitute for Fx > > Script? The race is on...
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > javaposse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<javaposse%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
