Just in time for the Mac app store announcement? Timing is really
suspicious, and the App store does not support deprecated
technologies, like Java!
Mac App Store Review Guidelines
"Apps must contain all language support in a single app bundle (single
binary multiple language). Apps that spawn processes that continue to
run after a user has quit the app without user consent will be
rejected. Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed
technologies (e.g., Java, [PowerPC code requiring] Rosetta) will be
rejected.
Crazy!
Crazy!
Is Oracle going to provide the JDK/JRE for Mac OX now? Is OpenJDK7
going to implement AWT/Swing/Java2D on top of Cocoa?
Please, someone do something! Don't make me have to use Windows
machines!! :-()
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 08:05, robross <rob.r...@gmail.com> wrote: > Just in time for the Mac app store announcement? Timing is really > suspicious, and the App store does not support deprecated > technologies, like Java!
> Mac App Store Review Guidelines
> "Apps must contain all language support in a single app bundle (single > binary multiple language). Apps that spawn processes that continue to > run after a user has quit the app without user consent will be > rejected. Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed > technologies (e.g., Java, [PowerPC code requiring] Rosetta) will be > rejected.
> Crazy!
> Crazy!
> Is Oracle going to provide the JDK/JRE for Mac OX now? Is OpenJDK7 > going to implement AWT/Swing/Java2D on top of Cocoa?
> Please, someone do something! Don't make me have to use Windows > machines!! :-()
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > javaposse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<javaposse%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
I'm sure they won't block a 3rd party JVM. But the current problem is,
no such (viable) 3rd party JVM exists. (There's a non-viable OpenJDK
port that runs on X-Windows on the Mac).
Is Oracle going to spend the money to develop one? If not, then who
will?
Also, since it's now a "deprecated" technology, even if there is a
viable 3rd party JVM made available, you still won't be able to
distribute any Java apps on the new Mac App store.
Rob
On Oct 20, 11:48 pm, Jan Goyvaerts™ <java.arti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Doesn't it simply mean Apple is no longer maintaining the JVM ? Or will they
> actively block Java from running on Mac OS ?
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 08:05, robross <rob.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Just in time for the Mac app store announcement? Timing is really
> > suspicious, and the App store does not support deprecated
> > technologies, like Java!
> > Mac App Store Review Guidelines
> > "Apps must contain all language support in a single app bundle (single
> > binary multiple language). Apps that spawn processes that continue to
> > run after a user has quit the app without user consent will be
> > rejected. Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed
> > technologies (e.g., Java, [PowerPC code requiring] Rosetta) will be
> > rejected.
> > Crazy!
> > Crazy!
> > Is Oracle going to provide the JDK/JRE for Mac OX now? Is OpenJDK7
> > going to implement AWT/Swing/Java2D on top of Cocoa?
> > Please, someone do something! Don't make me have to use Windows
> > machines!! :-()
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "The Java Posse" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > javaposse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<javaposse%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
I'd say neither. It just means you can't sell Java apps through the Mac store. Makes sense to me, they want quality control, and the only Java app I've ever seen that feels remotely like it belongs on OS X is Cyberduck. Two minutes with soapUI on a Mac would make anybody think twice about giving Java apps the tacit approval that comes with sale in the official store.
-Josh
On 21 October 2010 16:48, Jan Goyvaerts™ <java.arti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Doesn't it simply mean Apple is no longer maintaining the JVM ? Or will > they actively block Java from running on Mac OS ?
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 08:05, robross <rob.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Just in time for the Mac app store announcement? Timing is really >> suspicious, and the App store does not support deprecated >> technologies, like Java!
>> Mac App Store Review Guidelines
>> "Apps must contain all language support in a single app bundle (single >> binary multiple language). Apps that spawn processes that continue to >> run after a user has quit the app without user consent will be >> rejected. Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed >> technologies (e.g., Java, [PowerPC code requiring] Rosetta) will be >> rejected.
>> Crazy!
>> Crazy!
>> Is Oracle going to provide the JDK/JRE for Mac OX now? Is OpenJDK7 >> going to implement AWT/Swing/Java2D on top of Cocoa?
>> Please, someone do something! Don't make me have to use Windows >> machines!! :-()
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Java Posse" group. >> To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> javaposse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<javaposse%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > javaposse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<javaposse%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
-- "Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee."
The Mac App store is an extra. As in, all the ways you currently run
apps on a mac continue to work. Including java.
If anyone thought the mac app store was going to support java apps, I
would call that person delusional. So, nothing to see here, move
along, and for crying out loud, don't make a clearly factually wrong
titled post with 3 exclamation points in it, drama queen.
On Oct 21, 8:05 am, robross <rob.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just in time for the Mac app store announcement? Timing is really
> suspicious, and the App store does not support deprecated
> technologies, like Java!
> Mac App Store Review Guidelines
> "Apps must contain all language support in a single app bundle (single
> binary multiple language). Apps that spawn processes that continue to
> run after a user has quit the app without user consent will be
> rejected. Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed
> technologies (e.g., Java, [PowerPC code requiring] Rosetta) will be
> rejected.
> Crazy!
> Crazy!
> Is Oracle going to provide the JDK/JRE for Mac OX now? Is OpenJDK7
> going to implement AWT/Swing/Java2D on top of Cocoa?
> Please, someone do something! Don't make me have to use Windows
> machines!! :-()
And you've never seen crappy native Cocoa apps on the Mac?
This is the *exact* same argument that arose when Apple banned Flash-
ported application on the iPhone. Yes, the default behavior looks like
crap. So does the default behavior even when using Interface Builder.
It takes a skilled designer to develop a nice looking UI, regardless
of the underlying platform or technology.
And the "correct" response to the argument is, let the market decide.
Crappy apps won't sell. Great ones will. Implementation technology is
irrelevant.
But getting back to the main topic: if the only reason Apple has
decided to kill its JVM is so Java developers won't be able to submit
apps to the Mac App store, that seems pretty heavy handed to me.
Rob
On Oct 20, 11:57 pm, Josh McDonald <j...@joshmcdonald.info> wrote:
> I'd say neither. It just means you can't sell Java apps through the Mac
> store. Makes sense to me, they want quality control, and the only Java app
> I've ever seen that feels remotely like it belongs on OS X is Cyberduck. Two
> minutes with soapUI on a Mac would make anybody think twice about giving
> Java apps the tacit approval that comes with sale in the official store.
> -Josh
> On 21 October 2010 16:48, Jan Goyvaerts™ <java.arti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Doesn't it simply mean Apple is no longer maintaining the JVM ? Or will
> > they actively block Java from running on Mac OS ?
> > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 08:05, robross <rob.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Just in time for the Mac app store announcement? Timing is really
> >> suspicious, and the App store does not support deprecated
> >> technologies, like Java!
> >> Mac App Store Review Guidelines
> >> "Apps must contain all language support in a single app bundle (single
> >> binary multiple language). Apps that spawn processes that continue to
> >> run after a user has quit the app without user consent will be
> >> rejected. Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed
> >> technologies (e.g., Java, [PowerPC code requiring] Rosetta) will be
> >> rejected.
> >> Crazy!
> >> Crazy!
> >> Is Oracle going to provide the JDK/JRE for Mac OX now? Is OpenJDK7
> >> going to implement AWT/Swing/Java2D on top of Cocoa?
> >> Please, someone do something! Don't make me have to use Windows
> >> machines!! :-()
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "The Java Posse" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> javaposse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<javaposse%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com>
> >> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "The Java Posse" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
> --
> "Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee."
"As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of
Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is
deprecated.
This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at
the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X.
The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X
10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained through the
standard support cycles of those products."
On Oct 21, 6:03 pm, Reinier Zwitserloot <reini...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can we stop with the #%)(#%)@#(%#@#$* hyperbole?
> The Mac App store is an extra. As in, all the ways you currently run
> apps on a mac continue to work. Including java.
> If anyone thought the mac app store was going to support java apps, I
> would call that person delusional. So, nothing to see here, move
> along, and for crying out loud, don't make a clearly factually wrong
> titled post with 3 exclamation points in it, drama queen.
> On Oct 21, 8:05 am, robross <rob.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Just in time for the Mac app store announcement? Timing is really
> > suspicious, and the App store does not support deprecated
> > technologies, like Java!
> > Mac App Store Review Guidelines
> > "Apps must contain all language support in a single app bundle (single
> > binary multiple language). Apps that spawn processes that continue to
> > run after a user has quit the app without user consent will be
> > rejected. Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed
> > technologies (e.g., Java, [PowerPC code requiring] Rosetta) will be
> > rejected.
> > Crazy!
> > Crazy!
> > Is Oracle going to provide the JDK/JRE for Mac OX now? Is OpenJDK7
> > going to implement AWT/Swing/Java2D on top of Cocoa?
> > Please, someone do something! Don't make me have to use Windows
> > machines!! :-()
> Can we stop with the #%)(#%)@#(%#@#$* hyperbole?
> The Mac App store is an extra. As in, all the ways you currently run
> apps on a mac continue to work. Including java.
> If anyone thought the mac app store was going to support java apps, I
> would call that person delusional. So, nothing to see here, move
> along, and for crying out loud, don't make a clearly factually wrong
> titled post with 3 exclamation points in it, drama queen.
> On Oct 21, 8:05 am, robross <rob.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Just in time for the Mac app store announcement? Timing is really
> > suspicious, and the App store does not support deprecated
> > technologies, like Java!
> > Mac App Store Review Guidelines
> > "Apps must contain all language support in a single app bundle (single
> > binary multiple language). Apps that spawn processes that continue to
> > run after a user has quit the app without user consent will be
> > rejected. Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed
> > technologies (e.g., Java, [PowerPC code requiring] Rosetta) will be
> > rejected.
> > Crazy!
> > Crazy!
> > Is Oracle going to provide the JDK/JRE for Mac OX now? Is OpenJDK7
> > going to implement AWT/Swing/Java2D on top of Cocoa?
> > Please, someone do something! Don't make me have to use Windows
> > machines!! :-()
I won't be surprised if Oracle steps in to produce a JVM for all platforms. That's more or less what Apple is forcing them to do ? I'm no Mac user, but I don't think Oracle can just ignore Java not being shipped any more for Mac. I wouldn't be surprised they'll soon send out reassuring communications that they will.
And in the meantime, everybody still has JDK6. It's not until JDK7 ships that there will be a gap. Son there's some room for patience. :-)
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 09:06, Michael Neale <michael.ne...@gmail.com>wrote:
> "As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of > Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is > deprecated.
> This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at > the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X. > The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X > 10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained through the > standard support cycles of those products."
> On Oct 21, 6:03 pm, Reinier Zwitserloot <reini...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Can we stop with the #%)(#%)@#(%#@#$* hyperbole?
> > The Mac App store is an extra. As in, all the ways you currently run > > apps on a mac continue to work. Including java.
> > If anyone thought the mac app store was going to support java apps, I > > would call that person delusional. So, nothing to see here, move > > along, and for crying out loud, don't make a clearly factually wrong > > titled post with 3 exclamation points in it, drama queen.
> > On Oct 21, 8:05 am, robross <rob.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Just in time for the Mac app store announcement? Timing is really > > > suspicious, and the App store does not support deprecated > > > technologies, like Java!
> > > Mac App Store Review Guidelines
> > > "Apps must contain all language support in a single app bundle (single > > > binary multiple language). Apps that spawn processes that continue to > > > run after a user has quit the app without user consent will be > > > rejected. Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed > > > technologies (e.g., Java, [PowerPC code requiring] Rosetta) will be > > > rejected.
> > > Crazy!
> > > Crazy!
> > > Is Oracle going to provide the JDK/JRE for Mac OX now? Is OpenJDK7 > > > going to implement AWT/Swing/Java2D on top of Cocoa?
> > > Please, someone do something! Don't make me have to use Windows > > > machines!! :-()
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > javaposse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<javaposse%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups .com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
Ok personally I guess I don't care, don't use Mac, don't plan to
either. But it occurs to me that there's a substantial amount of
overlap between the iPhone and the Mac rules of engagements: http://goo.gl/GnOX
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that, with Apple scoring 30%
of the revenue, eventually - let's say 3 years - the Mac store will be
the de-facto way to install and all other ways effectively deprecated.
Apple are probably smart enough not to go as far as to require users
to jail-break in order to get to another distribution channel, but a
de-facto monopoly still has massive implications for the software
ecosystem at large. It's times like this I wonder how come Apple gets
away with stuff that Microsoft never could.
On Oct 21, 9:03 am, Reinier Zwitserloot <reini...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can we stop with the #%)(#%)@#(%#@#$* hyperbole?
> The Mac App store is an extra. As in, all the ways you currently run
> apps on a mac continue to work. Including java.
> If anyone thought the mac app store was going to support java apps, I
> would call that person delusional. So, nothing to see here, move
> along, and for crying out loud, don't make a clearly factually wrong
> titled post with 3 exclamation points in it, drama queen.
> On Oct 21, 8:05 am, robross <rob.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Just in time for the Mac app store announcement? Timing is really
> > suspicious, and the App store does not support deprecated
> > technologies, like Java!
> > Mac App Store Review Guidelines
> > "Apps must contain all language support in a single app bundle (single
> > binary multiple language). Apps that spawn processes that continue to
> > run after a user has quit the app without user consent will be
> > rejected. Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed
> > technologies (e.g., Java, [PowerPC code requiring] Rosetta) will be
> > rejected.
> > Crazy!
> > Crazy!
> > Is Oracle going to provide the JDK/JRE for Mac OX now? Is OpenJDK7
> > going to implement AWT/Swing/Java2D on top of Cocoa?
> > Please, someone do something! Don't make me have to use Windows
> > machines!! :-()
On Oct 21, 12:13 am, Jan Goyvaerts™ <java.arti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I won't be surprised if Oracle steps in to produce a JVM for all platforms.
> That's more or less what Apple is forcing them to do ?
I do hope you are right. But I don't see what the financial advantage
is for Oracle to pay for a new JDK port. How do they make more money
by having a JDK on Apple machines? What is the mysterious Step #2 in
this story?
1. Oracle funds a Mac OS port
2. ??
3. Profit
> And in the meantime, everybody still has JDK6. It's not until JDK7 ships
> that there will be a gap. Son there's some room for patience. :-)
Well, according to the deprecation notice, the next Mac OS version ,
10.7 Lion, could ship without Java. And that's targeted to ship summer
of 2011, around the same time as JDK7. Even if Oracle commits to a
port, I doubt they have the resources (people-wise) to deliver a Mac
version in this timeframe.
I'm not sure that I understand the text. Is Apple no longer going to ship Java or, is it just a particular version of Java. For example, I have the 1.4.2, 1.5.0 and 1.6.0. If they were dropping 1.4.2 and 1.5.0 it's like.. who cares! If it's Java all together than I'm no longer interested in Apple hardware and I'll vote with my wallet.
> On Oct 21, 12:13 am, Jan Goyvaerts™ <java.arti...@gmail.com> wrote: >> I won't be surprised if Oracle steps in to produce a JVM for all platforms. >> That's more or less what Apple is forcing them to do ?
> I do hope you are right. But I don't see what the financial advantage > is for Oracle to pay for a new JDK port. How do they make more money > by having a JDK on Apple machines? What is the mysterious Step #2 in > this story?
> 1. Oracle funds a Mac OS port > 2. ?? > 3. Profit
>> And in the meantime, everybody still has JDK6. It's not until JDK7 ships >> that there will be a gap. Son there's some room for patience. :-)
> Well, according to the deprecation notice, the next Mac OS version , > 10.7 Lion, could ship without Java. And that's targeted to ship summer > of 2011, around the same time as JDK7. Even if Oracle commits to a > port, I doubt they have the resources (people-wise) to deliver a Mac > version in this timeframe.
> Rob
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to javaposse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
It means that as of 10.7 (scheduled for summer 2011), the Apple JDK
could simply disappear, as in, NO Java on your Mac at all, no 1.4,
1.5, 1.6. 1.7 - nothing.
And since there are *currently* no 3rd party JDKs that could replace
Apple's JDK, this means if you need to develop Java apps, you'd have
to move to a supported OS, like Windows Vista, or some unix/linux
variant. (The SoyLatte OpenJDK port is in an "experimental" state at
best.)
Rob
On Oct 21, 12:53 am, Kirk <kirk.pepperd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure that I understand the text. Is Apple no longer going to ship Java or, is it just a particular version of Java. For example, I have the 1.4.2, 1.5.0 and 1.6.0. If they were dropping 1.4.2 and 1.5.0 it's like.. who cares! If it's Java all together than I'm no longer interested in Apple hardware and I'll vote with my wallet.
> Kirk
> On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:36 AM, robross wrote:
> > On Oct 21, 12:13 am, Jan Goyvaerts™ <java.arti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I won't be surprised if Oracle steps in to produce a JVM for all platforms.
> >> That's more or less what Apple is forcing them to do ?
> > I do hope you are right. But I don't see what the financial advantage
> > is for Oracle to pay for a new JDK port. How do they make more money
> > by having a JDK on Apple machines? What is the mysterious Step #2 in
> > this story?
> > 1. Oracle funds a Mac OS port
> > 2. ??
> > 3. Profit
> >> And in the meantime, everybody still has JDK6. It's not until JDK7 ships
> >> that there will be a gap. Son there's some room for patience. :-)
> > Well, according to the deprecation notice, the next Mac OS version ,
> > 10.7 Lion, could ship without Java. And that's targeted to ship summer
> > of 2011, around the same time as JDK7. Even if Oracle commits to a
> > port, I doubt they have the resources (people-wise) to deliver a Mac
> > version in this timeframe.
> > Rob
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to javaposse+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
My Mac is just a tool, it may be a favourite one right now. But when a tool is no longer useful you replace it. If they actually do remove the jdks without a decent alternative then I will regretfully move on.
On 21 Oct 2010 09:02, "robross" <rob.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
It means that as of 10.7 (scheduled for summer 2011), the Apple JDK could simply disappear, as in, NO Java on your Mac at all, no 1.4, 1.5, 1.6. 1.7 - nothing.
And since there are *currently* no 3rd party JDKs that could replace Apple's JDK, this means if you need to develop Java apps, you'd have to move to a supported OS, like Windows Vista, or some unix/linux variant. (The SoyLatte OpenJDK port is in an "experimental" state at best.)
Rob
On Oct 21, 12:53 am, Kirk <kirk.pepperd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure that I understand the t... > > For more options, visit this group athttp://
groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" grou...
> And since there are *currently* no 3rd party JDKs that could replace > Apple's JDK, this means if you need to develop Java apps, you'd have > to move to a supported OS, like Windows Vista, or some unix/linux > variant. (The SoyLatte OpenJDK port is in an "experimental" state at > best.)
So the "community" instead of chatting about forking the whole OpenJDK for every possible operating system could start prove how good is at that job by focusing on SoyLatte. Right?
It kind of sounds like Java in general will no longer be supported...
"As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of
Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is
deprecated."
It isn't terribly surprising, to be honest. With the "Back to Mac"
event today, it became crystal clear that Apple's vision for computers
(desktop/laptop) is to make it as much like iOS as they can get away
with. This gives them more control which allows them to create a
better experience for (some percentage of) users and (perhaps more
importantly) make more money, since they now will be able to get a cut
of money spent on applications. Java doesn't really fit anywhere in
that, and it doesn't seem to make much business sense for them to
continue spending resources to maintain it.
This makes me wonder a few things...
1) People are already joking about this, but I wonder what the chances
of 'jailbreaking' your new iMac or MacBook Pro becoming a common thing
are in the next 5 years or so? I'm starting to wonder...
2) I'm kind of with Casper on this - how does Apple continually get
free passes for stuff like this? I'm not really a huge Microsoft fan,
but if they were to try something like this, people would be going
crazy. I don't think the Mac AppStore is a bad idea, but the level of
control one company could have over your computing experience is a
little scary.
- Spencer
On Oct 21, 1:53 am, Kirk <kirk.pepperd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure that I understand the text. Is Apple no longer going to ship Java or, is it just a particular version of Java. For example, I have the 1.4.2, 1.5.0 and 1.6.0. If they were dropping 1.4.2 and 1.5.0 it's like.. who cares! If it's Java all together than I'm no longer interested in Apple hardware and I'll vote with my wallet.
> Kirk
> On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:36 AM, robross wrote:
> > On Oct 21, 12:13 am, Jan Goyvaerts™ <java.arti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I won't be surprised if Oracle steps in to produce a JVM for all platforms.
> >> That's more or less what Apple is forcing them to do ?
> > I do hope you are right. But I don't see what the financial advantage
> > is for Oracle to pay for a new JDK port. How do they make more money
> > by having a JDK on Apple machines? What is the mysterious Step #2 in
> > this story?
> > 1. Oracle funds a Mac OS port
> > 2. ??
> > 3. Profit
> >> And in the meantime, everybody still has JDK6. It's not until JDK7 ships
> >> that there will be a gap. Son there's some room for patience. :-)
> > Well, according to the deprecation notice, the next Mac OS version ,
> > 10.7 Lion, could ship without Java. And that's targeted to ship summer
> > of 2011, around the same time as JDK7. Even if Oracle commits to a
> > port, I doubt they have the resources (people-wise) to deliver a Mac
> > version in this timeframe.
> > Rob
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group.
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> 2) I'm kind of with Casper on this - how does Apple continually get > free passes for stuff like this? I'm not really a huge Microsoft fan, > but if they were to try something like this, people would be going > crazy. I don't think the Mac AppStore is a bad idea, but the level of > control one company could have over your computing experience is a > little scary.
... especially considering that now the AppStore for Mac OS X is just another way to install applications... maybe in Apple's plan there's the idea of making it the _only_ way (as you said, there's a sort of convergence to the iOS style). Looks like it's really time to move on? Too bad Linux on the desktop is being declared dead by some, including Gosling: http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/desktop_linux_the_dream_is
If nothing else, this might push efforts to improve Linux drivers for the trackpad, magic mouse, etc.
Personally, I think I'll be abandoning Macbooks now, just can decide what to use as a replacement The HP Envy's seem to have the screen quality and sold-metal body that I've grown to love, but I've read about problems installing Ubuntu on then.
>> 2) I'm kind of with Casper on this - how does Apple continually get >> free passes for stuff like this? I'm not really a huge Microsoft fan, >> but if they were to try something like this, people would be going >> crazy. I don't think the Mac AppStore is a bad idea, but the level of >> control one company could have over your computing experience is a >> little scary.
> ... especially considering that now the AppStore for Mac OS X is just > another way to install applications... maybe in Apple's plan there's the > idea of making it the _only_ way (as you said, there's a sort of convergence > to the iOS style). Looks like it's really time to move on? Too bad Linux on > the desktop is being declared dead by some, including Gosling: > http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/desktop_linux_the_dream_is
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... in any case, I do hope Oracle says something official soon: "We're going to / we're not going to" provide an official version of Java 7 for Mac OS X". As somebody pointed out in an Apple mailing list, the release notes describe some improvements in the way Mac OS X supports Java implementations "by third parties". I don't know how much Oracle would gain from that (even though I suppose they have at least a tiny fraction of customers running Mac OS X), but it would be a really good move for the relationship with the community.
> If nothing else, this might push efforts to improve Linux drivers for > the trackpad, magic mouse, etc.
> Personally, I think I'll be abandoning Macbooks now, just can decide > what to use as a replacement > The HP Envy's seem to have the screen quality and sold-metal body that > I've grown to love, but I've read about problems installing Ubuntu on > then.
> What's a developer to do?
For sure there are valid alternatives for hardware, and possibly cheaper. I'm not thinking of me as a developer; after all I feel much more efficient with Linux that Mac OS X. I'm trying to understand what's the future of deploying Java applications to Mac OS X. Curiously, if I switch to a primary Linux environment (which doesnt' cost anything to me, in addition to virtual boxes I already have also native partitions), I'll lose ZFS (OpenSolaris went away, and currently the only option is the open ZFS port to Mac OS X).
I love the Apple hardware and their GUI, but the (lack of) Java support is really starting to wind me up.
I'm wondering if Oracle couldn't side-step the the whole issue, not bother with releasing an OSX JVM, and push resources into improving the OSX feature set + performance for VirtualBox instead.
Perhaps I should be buying shares in Parallels Holdings Ltd. about now.
On 21 October 2010 10:00, Fabrizio Giudici <fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it>wrote:
>> If nothing else, this might push efforts to improve Linux drivers for the >> trackpad, magic mouse, etc.
>> Personally, I think I'll be abandoning Macbooks now, just can decide what >> to use as a replacement >> The HP Envy's seem to have the screen quality and sold-metal body that >> I've grown to love, but I've read about problems installing Ubuntu on then.
>> What's a developer to do?
>> For sure there are valid alternatives for hardware, and possibly cheaper. > I'm not thinking of me as a developer; after all I feel much more efficient > with Linux that Mac OS X. I'm trying to understand what's the future of > deploying Java applications to Mac OS X. Curiously, if I switch to a primary > Linux environment (which doesnt' cost anything to me, in addition to virtual > boxes I already have also native partitions), I'll lose ZFS (OpenSolaris > went away, and currently the only option is the open ZFS port to Mac OS X).
I must admit I had a feeling that Apple would drop Java as Steve has
been posturing about how no-one uses Java for some time now. It is a
blow.
I am writing this on my first MacBook Pro. As a primarily Java
developer it may well be the sad reality that if there is no Java on
the Mac that this MacBook could be both my first and my last Mac.
I am annoyed that Apple is being allowed to get away with this. The
irony of Apples original Macintosh advert in 1984. Because Apple
doesn't think it needs to be like 1984 and yet here we are. Apples
developer world is 1984 hell with Big Brother Steve watching over your
shoulder "To ensure quality of software". That will be the reason
given but not the whole story.
What if Apple changes the rules to block Flash and Flex from running
on the Mac too?
What is wrong with the world! When did write once run anywhere turn
into fragment to the max? Perhaps things will go full circle again.
Once we are back to having to develop for each O/S individually then
maybe it will occur to people why technologies like Java were good in
the first place.
Whether Oracle produces Java for the Mac is critical to whether I
continue using a Mac. No Java = No Mac.
I note that Java survived on Windows even after Microsoft pulled it
but Windows was more dominant and Sun was less profit centric.
This won't be the end of Java but certainly a big annoyance to Java
developers. It could be like Flash where Apple says Flash doesn't fit
into their vision so the iOS users have to live without it but most
others happily go on using it on other platforms which don't take such
draconian steps.
I will just finish by saying...GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!
GAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!
> What if Apple changes the rules to block Flash and Flex from running
> on the Mac too?
They are close according to rumors: "Amusingly enough, you know what's
missing from the new MacBook Air models? Adobe Flash Player. While
preloaded on Apple's past hardware, out of the box here it just says
missing plugin, with no click to install option."
> I note that Java survived on Windows even after Microsoft pulled it
> but Windows was more dominant and Sun was less profit centric.
Small but not insignificant note, Microsoft funded at lot of this
effort indirectly though the $1.6bn they payed Sun over patent and
antitrust issues. I really wonder whether Oracle will see the
importance of client Java enough to overtake the work on the JRE,
there's no money in it for them catering to measly end-users.
