>? ? ? Where did I ever bring race into the discussion?
I didn't say you bring race into the discussion but from your writings, one could tell that you do have the white supremacist syndrome. You always try to lecture the yellow ones and think you are superior than them. Well, too bad you ain't.
>No. Asians have been raping and pillaging for centuries. It was the >West that probably learned about it from the East (Ghengis Khan, >Atilla the Hun, et al.). ;)
Well, don't tell me those old colonial invaders were such good masters that they were envied by the indigenous people. Look at what's happening in USA now.
>Again, I don't think the West enjoys exclusive behavior in that >regard. Mao not only had zipper problems, he had a predilection for >teenage girls; a prominent Philippine politician was recently >arresting for soliticting sex from minors. Btw, the most numerous >customers of prostitutes in Thailand are Asian.
As if in USA, there is no politician that raped minors? grow up bugger. Look at things the way you are not just from your perspective. Just in case you haven't read the stories, most peadophiles are whites. So what does that say about your whites morals?? Quit lecturing and go and read more boy.
>#1) You've lost your argument when you bring family members into the
discussion, but that's so typically a Singaporean debate trait when all other arguments have failed;
you never did have an argument my boy. You were just bitching about how you can go about lecturing asians on their moral values. This is so typical of your mentality, loser. In case you missed my point, it was just an example of your mother probably having fucked her gardenerm I didn't say she did. Obviously your replies confirmed it.
>#2) Unless you can provide statistical data to support your claim, >it's only so much hogwash;
now you're talking about statistical data while you yourself write irresponsibly without accurate facts. Hypocrite!!
>#3) I've never made the claim in this discussion that Americans hold >the moral high-ground. On the contrary, it would appear that there are
still Singaporeans around who think *their* countrymen hold the moral high-ground.
Well at least we don;t go around telling others what they should be doing. Mind your own business. You got no right telling us on our morales while you yourself are a hypocrite.
>There're medical treatments for your kind of illness. Thankfully, >insanity is not communicable.
I was giving you facts my boy. think about it, look at the country, it' a mess. And here you are diverting my point coz you don't know how to refute this fact. LOSER!!
>Jiving? Do you even know what the word means? Wrt the KKK (and it's "Ku
Klux Klan," btw), if you can find evidence of my membership in any such organization or evidence that I have ever espoused white supremicist propoganda, I will promise not to sue you for defamation.
I don't intend to, who gives a damn on whether you are a member of KKK. For all I know if you try to lecture us on our morales with baseless statements, you basically own that nature of a KKK. By the way, in case you don't understand, one has to work to earn a living not just spreading nonsense about other people. Well, i don't really expect you to understand this.
I got nothing to hide you nitwit. I am stating the fact and proud of my country. Right or wrong, this is my country. You obviously have sthings to lose by disclosing yr ID. LOSER!! I'd take on you anytime if you pick on my country. Let us deal with our country ourselves, we don't need a foreigner telling us what we should or should not do. You don't live here, we do. So let us care for ourselves ok.
It appeared that when foreigners raised local issues, such as race discrimination in job adverts and bad treatment of shabbily looking patient in the SGS, they were taken up seriously. If these issues were raised by its people they were either not published or simply rejected with some silly excuses or anything to cow us into believing this or that that were not good for its people or the country.
This sort of things is already a discrimination. It clearly tells us something: that foreign voices are better and will be heard and changed. We are cats and they are dogs. It appears that arguments for freedom of speech and other aspects of problems, etc can only be liberalised through the voice of foreigners but not us - its people!.
Yap Yok Foo <yf...@pop.jaring.my> wrote in article <36de038e.1844...@nntp.jaring.my>... From the Singapore ST 27th February 1999
Expat opinions welcome, but let's set our own agenda LOOK BACK IN WONDER By TAN SAI SIONG
SINGAPORE'S red carpet welcome to talented foreigners has meant multi-faceted benefits from their participation: the work they put in, the money they spend here and the taxes they pay.
Just how much foreigners have been adding to the critical mass on the demand and the supply side can be gauged from the fact that the number living and working here grew by 10.9 per cent between 1997 and 1998, hitting 702,100 last year.
This means that one out of four persons residing on the island is a foreigner, not counting the casual tourist.
As a result of this huge foreign presence, it is not surprising that their views are now heard beyond the small circle of the workplace and other places where the home-grown and guest workers meet.
In particular, a couple of adverse comments from foreigners about Singaporeans in the pages of this newspaper have started much soul-searching, in one instance leading to no less than a debate in Parliament.
That is still continuing if the Manpower Minister's reminder to the Singapore Chinese Chamber of Commerce and Industry at its Chinese New Year gathering is anything to go by.
All this is due to one Ms Lori Smith, 39. She started it with a letter last month in the Forum page urging the Manpower Ministry to act against job advertisements showing race, gender or age bias.
When she arrived here with her husband in 1997, she had tried looking for a secretarial job and was shocked by what she found in the classified ads.
She said: "All I wanted was a secretarial job, but there were all these barriers. I am not Chinese, was almost 40 then, am not a graduate: but what had all these to do with my ability to be a secretary?"
She was not fobbed off by the ministry's soothing reply that biased ads were in the minority and it was better to educate the errant than hit them with legislation.
Her second letter, duly published, recounted her discovery that two in five ads specified age, gender and/or race as job requirements, after she counted the recruitment ads appearing on a particular day. But she did not analyse if there was any reason other than bias for the specifications.
Ms Smith apart, two other foreigners reminded Singaporeans recently that while they find this place not bad to work in or visit, they want more to be done to make it better.
These are sentiments which no one born and bred here can fault. If those who are here perhaps temporarily expect better, surely those who are here for keeps would want no less.
Thus Ms Paola Caronni's complaint against the phenomenon of the taxi which vanishes before midnight and reappears at the witching hour, has struck a chord.
Foreigners and Singaporeans have been similarly blighted by cabbies determined to earn the midnight surcharge.
As for Mr Andrew M Whitaker who felt the pushing and shoving hoi polloi at the Istana's open house do nothing for Singapore's efforts to promote courtesy, he found instant agreement from no less than Mr Noel Hon, the Courtesy Campaign chairman.
From my recital, it is obvious that besides contributing to the economy, foreigners, other than those invited by the Government to give advice and guidance, are also contributing to debate on domestic issues, national and municipal.
Hopefully, what they say will give us a clearer picture of our shortcomings and make us try harder to overcome them.
Hopefully, however, this openness to others' opinions of ourselves will not be abused by guests or some foreign power as a fifth column to implement their own agenda.
In view of this possibility, Singaporeans should be careful about what feedback we adopt or we could end up managing our lives according to this or that foreigner's whim, which may not always serve us best. HDB RATE NATIONAL Development Minister Lim Hng Kiang has dashed all hopes that the subsidised mortgage rates of 440,000 HDB flat owners, now above market-pegged rates, will be lowered.
He told reporters this week that he regarded the movement of market-pegged rates to below subsidised rates as an anomaly that would disappear.
He also said those who "think there is no subsidy, I welcome them to switch to the market rates".
Mr Lim may have a point there. Instead of toying with the formula for calculating the subsidised rate which had worked very well when interest rates were stable, the Government should give the undertaking that subsidised owners would always pay the lower of the two rates.
So, when market-pegged rates are lower, those subsidised would pay market-pegged rates. When subsidised rates are lower, they pay those rates.
That way, everyone will be happy and the old formula can be left intact. SURE WINNER IF I have a child, I want him to grow up to be a fund manager because it is one profession where he can never lose.
My conclusion is based on the 1998 fund investment awards, which saw 10 of the 21 winners losing money for their investors.
For these 10, there was champagne as a consolation prize besides the management fees which their investors have had to pay, however abysmally their money has been managed.
Mr J.Y. Pillay, chairman of the pro-tem committee on the New Integrated Singapore Exchange, summed up neatly fund managers' weak points at the awards dinner: a not-always scintillating record, a tendency towards herd instinct and an inclination to manage funds according to an index after "having given up the struggle to evaluate the interplay of cosmic forces... "
Despite this assessment, he says the fund management industry is a vital component of the entire financial sector. Like that, how can fund managers lose?
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>and since CLOB cannot issue malaysian companies shares, those shares must be >going on trees when there is excess buying in singapore to meet the demand. >and what if there is excess supply? burn the scripts?
CDF cannot create virtual scripts for off-balance quantity mer ?
On Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:49:34 +0800, "KCL" <malu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>? ? ? Where did I ever bring race into the discussion?
>I didn't say you bring race into the discussion but from your writings, one >could tell that you do have the white supremacist syndrome.
How can that be if I never bring race into an issue?
>You always try >to lecture the yellow ones and think you are superior than them. Well, too >bad you ain't.
Are they "yellow ones" I'm holding discussions with or just people who are Singaporean? There *is* a difference, i.e. not all Singaporeans are "yellow." It's too bad, however, that *you* exhibit a racial arrogance and self-righteousness based on race.
>>No. Asians have been raping and pillaging for centuries. It was the >>West that probably learned about it from the East (Ghengis Khan, >>Atilla the Hun, et al.). ;)
>Well, don't tell me those old colonial invaders were such good masters that >they were envied by the indigenous people.
Well, the Han were certainly colonizing parts of Asia long before any European set foot on the continent.
> Look at what's happening in USA now.
Look at what? Amerind are exercising their rights as a sovereign people in numerous ways all across the country. Maybe you should read up on current events before making such a bold, brash, and false statement.
>>Again, I don't think the West enjoys exclusive behavior in that >>regard. Mao not only had zipper problems, he had a predilection for >>teenage girls; a prominent Philippine politician was recently >>arresting for soliticting sex from minors. Btw, the most numerous >>customers of prostitutes in Thailand are Asian.
>As if in USA, there is no politician that raped minors?
I've never made any claim otherwise. You, on the other hand, have appeared to believe in the mistaken impression that all Asian politicians -- and, perhaps, people -- are saints.
>grow up bugger.
Another preposterous personal attack. Why can't some Singaporeans learn to debate in a more decent manner?
>Just in case you haven't read the stories, most peadophiles are whites.
Sources, please. Based on what *I've* read in the Asian press (ST, Asiaweek, etc.) it would appear that most pedophiles in Asia are Asian. And since there are more Asians than anyone else ...
>>#1) You've lost your argument when you bring family members into the >>discussion, but that's so typically a Singaporean debate trait when >>all other arguments have failed;
>you never did have an argument my boy. You were just bitching about how you >can go about lecturing asians on their moral values.
Have I been lecturing, or have I merely been pointing out your own hypocrisy when *you* begin to lecture Westerners about their moral values?
>In case you missed my point, it was just an example >of your mother probably having fucked her gardenerm I didn't say she did. >Obviously your replies confirmed it.
You'll have to do better than mere words and taunts to prove any of the above. Photographic evidence or a deposition would qualify. Otherwise, you're walking on very thin ice wrt defamation.
>>#2) Unless you can provide statistical data to support your claim, >>it's only so much hogwash;
>now you're talking about statistical data while you yourself write >irresponsibly without accurate facts. Hypocrite!!
"Almost 200,000 girls from Nepal have been transported over the border to India, where they are forced to work in brothels. Young girls are also forced or lured to Japan into forced labour as prostitutes. A large proportion of sex tourists in South-East Asia are Japanese men."
"India's main cities of Calcutta, Bombay, Hyderabad, Bangalore, Madras and Delhi have an estimated 100,000 prostitutes, of whom some 20 - 30 per cent are children (1993 survey by the Central Welfare Board). The vast majority are Indian (94%); 2.6% are Nepalese and 2.7% Bengali. The sex exploiters are mostly local men who frequent brothels. The prostitution of children in temples in India is illegal, nevertheless the Devadasi system -- in which young girls virginity is sold and they are then used as temple prostitutes -- is still believed to induct 5,000 girls a year."
"ECPAT estimates that between 40,000 and 60,000 children are exploited in prostitution in Taiwan by local men and visiting Asian businessmen. The local industry has a long history and Taiwan has been a destination for Japanese sex tourists for decades. A significant number of young sex workers are culturally and economically marginalized aboriginal girls (1)."
"Asia Watch estimates that 10,000 Burmese women and girls are trafficked into Thailand annually. Others come from Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos. While many are kept in Thailand, large numbers are reportedly re-exported, along with local Thai girls, to other Asian cities. Some (from the Yunan province of China) are taken to Singapore and Malaysia, others to Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Taiwan, Germany and the United States (2)." [note: *Singapore*]
"Sex tours from Japan to nearby Thailand, Philippines and Taiwan are increasing as is the trafficking of women from these countries -- and in recent years from Eastern Europe and Latin America -- into Japan for prostitution."
Now, sir, can *you* provide statistical data to support *your* claims?
>>#3) I've never made the claim in this discussion that Americans hold >>the moral high-ground. On the contrary, it would appear that there are >>still Singaporeans around who think *their* countrymen hold the moral >>high-ground.
>Well at least we don;t go around telling others what they should be doing.
Really? The contrary would appear to be true from the evidence I've seen here and elsewhere. It seems that telling Malaysians, especially, how to run their affairs is a popular Singaporean activity in both the press and in this newsgroup.
On Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:57:47 +0800, "KCL" <malu...@hotmail.com> wrote: >I got nothing to hide you nitwit. I am stating the fact and proud of my >country. Right or wrong, this is my country. You obviously have sthings to >lose by disclosing yr ID.
Me hiding *my* ID? Oh, you mean the name I'm using is not the one written on my birth certificate, my passport and my driver's license?
>You don't live here,
But I once did, plus I'm married to a Singaporean, and still have a number of relatives who live in Singapore. So your problems quickly become my problems, too.
"... Shortly before our arrival, Thai immigration police had arrested two Singaporean men and five Thais running such an operation, and charged them with luring dozens of Thai bar girls to work as prostitutes in Singapore. The traffickers had been operating out of a Bangkok beauty parlor, from which the police rescued four Thai teenagers between the ages of 15 and 16. Once in Singapore, each girl would have had to have sex with 300 men to pay off her transportation expenses."
"... At the Coalition's day-long workshop on Sept. 4, Ms. Missistrano and a colleague reported that each year tens of thousands of mostly rural Chinese women are abducted or lured away from their homes by criminal networks promising work or travel. The women are then raped and beaten before being subjected to forced marriages to strangers or prostitution in Asia's sex industry centers, especially in Thailand and Taiwan."
[source: Philippine Daily Inquirer, 5 May 1996]:
"A 20-year old Mexican woman escaped from a brothel in Hirosaki, Japan. According to her, she and two others were offered work as receptionists in a nightclub or restaurant by two Japanese intermediaries in Mexico. Upon arrival in Japan, they discovered that they were expected to sell their bodies in a brothel along with other women from Thailand and China. After her escape, she alerted Mexican authorities and this led to the arrest of two Japanese men who allegedly organized the syndicate that have deceived about 3,000 young Mexican women into prostitution for the past ten years."
[source: Manila Chronicle, 6 February 1996]:
"It used to be US $7,000 seven years ago, now for just US $3,000, Taiwanese men may get a young wife in Ho Chi Minh City. According to Phu Nu, published by the Ho Chi Minh City Women’s Union, the men who come to Vietnam are mostly poor farmers, handicapped or old and dying ones. Mothers sell daughters as young as 16 years old to settle family debts. In one district, 35 of the 45 marriages involving foreigners were between Taiwanese and Vietnamese, most of which were arranged by intermediaries who took half of the money paid."
I know u are anti-chinese. Pls don't bully your Malay sahabat there for purportedly omitting their existence in Singapore. They have malay SAF's officers, malay national language, malay ministers and etc,.
On Wed, 24 Feb 1999 04:03:39 GMT, kruz...@my-dejanews.com wrote: >Hehehe, you Singaporean Chinese think you so smart can sabotage >our KLSE with your black market dealings.
On Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:59:04 GMT, SkYWaLk...@Crusade.Now!.email.com
(SkYWaLkMaN) wrote: >Hello, Uncle Yap, >why do you think the phrase's an oxymoron? >I'm sure there are dishonest Singaporeans as there are honest >Singaporeans ma?
Just once in a while Uncle Yap also must have some fun, cannot meh ? Like I have advised others, it's water over the duck :-)
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On Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:45:28 +0800, "Inuka" <in...@babybear.net> wrote:
>tke kid's a moron to lose his wallet 3 times in a month. >to cure this moronic disease, use Oxymoron -- a now >product from Oxy-5 and Oxy-10
Reminds me of the time I was asked a question in a chemistry exam about production of hydrogen peroxide The answer totally escaped me and I sat there figuring a way out until I wrote "Bubble oxygen thro water" Erh, I failed that paper :-)
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In article <36D433AA.2...@pop.jaring.my>, ari...@pop.jaring.my wrote: > I fail to understand how capital controls in Malaysia, given the bad > situation that we were in, could have worsened banking woes. I keep > hearing this claim, but can anyone explain to me, specifically how this > can be bad for Malaysia, at a time when whatever is done by the > Malaysian Government, the foreigners have only one thing in mind - to > take their money out.
Foreigners have more than one thing in their minds ---
1. Take their money out.
2. Not take their money in.
3. Not invest in Malaysia in the future.
4. Liquify their current investment in Malaysia to ease the pullout.
The Malaysian government only tells us item 1. Items 2, 3 and 4 are not being told because it will cause a sharp drop in people's confidence in the government.
People's morale is important, especially during a crisis. That is why the Malaysian government is not telling us the whole truth (but then, there is no "truth" in Malaysia anymore, but that's another matter)
> If we are talking about international confidence, then there is no loss, > since there was none anyway.
Wrong.
If there was no confidence in Malaysia, Intel, Motorola, IBM or whatever MNC wouldn't have invested in Malaysia.
The LOSS of confidence is SUBSTANTIAL !!!!
> If there was, these guys wouldn't be taking their money out right ?
The guys taking their money out because they have LOST the confidence in Malaysia. What made them invest their money _INTO_ Malaysia in the first place was they _had_ confidence in Malaysia. No more.
> I mean with the whole world criticizing the Malaysian Government then, > everybody knows that all the foreign gurus think that we would have gone > bankrupt by now.
And we are !!!
For a country to go bankrupt, it will take some time. It isn't like an overnight thingy. Malaysia _IS_ bankrupted !!!!
Look at how Malaysia is selling off all foreign assets, look at how much "divestments" that are happenings throughout the Malaysian corporate scene. Look at how much red inks ozzing out of the budgets, governments, corporate and private accounts.
Malaysia *IS* bankrupted. The thing is most Malaysians are still having difficulties to face the reality yet.
> Remember all those comments at the time of announcement ? Yet, we remain, > standing alone in the economic crisis.
May I enquire where you get the following idea from?
"we remain standing alone in the economic crisis"
It's a typical governmental brainwash. Most Malaysians are totally confused by the happenings around them. They are lost. People who are lost will want others to fill them in, and the Malaysian government is using all its propaganda aparatus to brainwash its people, and you are one fine example of how successful the brainwash campaign has been.
> So, to me, whatever the Malaysian Government do, money will keep flowing > out, with speculative activities aggravating the situation. Thus, why > shouldn't the Government take the necessary, and necessary is correct, > to stop speculative activities, at this exceptionally bad circumstance > of a situation.
In a normal situation, some money flows in, and others flows out.
In Malaysia, money are flowing out, but no new money flowing in. And guess what will that happened?
With no new foreign investment, Malaysia will have no new factories, and with none of that, no new employments be created.
With old investment being pulled out, existing factories will be closed, more people will be unemployed.
With no money left inside Malaysia, the Malaysian government can't create enough new employment slots to fill the newly unemployed, and with no money to retrain the workers, the workers in Malaysia will have no way to gain new skills, and with that, Malaysia as a whole is retreating while the rest of the world marches on.
That is what Malaysia is facing.
Do you think the Malaysia government will tell us this true fact?
Now the Malaysian government is blaming the foreigners for all our troubles. When all is done, when they run out of scapegoats, who do you think the Malaysian government will blame next?
The Chinese of course.
Already our "loyalty" to Malaysia have been questioned. It's not that far off when they blatantly accuse us of treason and all other treacherous acts. And anti-Chinese pogroms will not that far off either.
Shit, shit, shit..... such language, well I suppose one bad mouthing deserves another. And the DAP goons have been abusive on these pages. It is sad that, "discussions" if monosylibic cussin can be so grandiozed pave all discussions on Malaysian politics, particularly about DAP! What worries thinking people, is the personalization of discussions, in the last 6 months we have had an avalanche of p/releases from the DAP leader about the conditions endured by his son in prison. True, prisons are not luxury hotels, but on the other hand this episode does not justify leaving our prison conditions in this sad state, notwithstanding the exaggeration of Lim & co. Like the Anuar assault, we are missing the woods for the trees. What the commission should be doing is not to discover who assault Anuar, but if it is true, how these activities could be put a stop to. It is open secret that assaults of detainees take place in the police force, and this gives a bad name to the white sheep. Anuar as DPM, did nothing to these things, to his discredit. That is why ist is so uncomfortable when they cry "wolf"! Similarly, with Lim Kit Siang & Co. That the issue of prision conditions are only raised when their kith and Kins are victims, only then they wake up! There would be more merit in the complaints about prison conditions if it has not the person bias angle. For one thing, the legal profession who are so involved in the prison system kept quiet all these years, without any conciousness about the fate of their unluckier clients. That is why nepotism and conflict of interest politics are condemned, and people who throw stones should look themselves in the mirror. Having said that, now we stand by for the abuses........ :-) Can we trust the pot, calling the kettle ........?
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Shit, shit, shit..... such language, well I suppose one bad mouthing deserves another. And the DAP goons have been abusive on these pages. It is sad that, "discussions" if monosyllibic cussin can be so grandiosed called pave all "discussions" on Malaysian politics, particularly touching the DAP! What worries thinking people, is the personalization of discussions, in the last 6 months we have had an avalanche of p/releases from the DAP leader about the conditions suffered by his son in prison. True, prisons are not luxury hotels, but on the other hand this does not justify leaving our prison conditions in this sad state, and beyond the pall of discussions, notwithstanding the exaggeration of Lim & Co. Like the Anuar assault, we are missing the woods for the trees. What the Commission should be doing is not to discover who assault Anuar, (if the police cannot determine, with its limited powers how can the Commission) but if it is true, how these mal-practises can be put a stop to. It is open secret that assaults of detainees take place in the police force, and this gives a bad name to the white sheep in the force. Unfortunately, Anuar as DPM, did nothing to stop these things, to his discredit. That is why when they cry "adioh"! it sounded like "wolf"! So, when Lim Kit Siang & Co cry about prision conditions only when the son is victim, the water is muddied, they have just woken up! There would be more merit in the complaints about prison conditions if it has not the personal bias angle. For one thing, the legal profession who are so involved in the prison system kept quiet all these years, without any conciousness about the fate of their unluckier clients. That is why nepotism and conflict of interest politics are to be condemned, and people who throw stones should look themselves in the mirror (sorry for the mix metaphors. Having said that, now we stand by for the abuses........ :-) Can we trust the pot, calling the kettle ........? It is not too late for people to learn to do unto others what they would others do unto them!
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Fearless wrote: > No true. The shares are registered under CDF nominee account at CDS. > After that all CLOB share transactions are go through Singapore > brokers ONLY and CDF itself serve as clearing house. This was hidden > fact which was never told to Singaporeans by SES prior to CLOB > closure. The transaction never go through Malaysia brokers. Where is > the question of sharing commissions ?
Why do people trade in CLOB and not directly in KLSE?
On Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:35:54 +0800, GeoL <G...@pacific.com> wrote: >Fearless wrote:
>> No true. The shares are registered under CDF nominee account at CDS. >> After that all CLOB share transactions are go through Singapore >> brokers ONLY and CDF itself serve as clearing house. This was hidden >> fact which was never told to Singaporeans by SES prior to CLOB >> closure. The transaction never go through Malaysia brokers. Where is >> the question of sharing commissions ?
>Why do people trade in CLOB and not directly in KLSE?
Because black market can always offer lower commission rate. Why pirated VCD is cheaper than original copy ? Get the answer !
In article <36D78714.4...@pop.jaring.my>, ari...@pop.jaring.my wrote: >In my opinion, the major part of the damage was already done by year 1998. >With a few exceptions who are no longer able to continue their existing >survival, most of the bank debtors have already gone through their worst >period. Whether they can recover will depend on their managment capability >and balance of resources still available.
Most of the debts are yet not fully actualized yet.
And all the potential losts are not yet being tallied.
Don't speak of the "worst" so fast, because the _real_ worst is yet to be realized.
>I think I need to restate my earlier statement, to get the right perspective. Not >completely zero confidence by everyone. :) Based on my discussions with >various people (of course views can be distorted based on who you meet, and >who their contacts are), the Taiwanese are quite keen on Malaysia, both in >the stock market and investments in factories here. The Japanese bonds also >reflect some support, although the Japanese businessmen and fund managers >have their own set of headaches, sad to say.
The Taiwanese expressed their "keen-ness" because they need to park their money somewhere elses other than Taiwan, not because of the "attractiveness" of our stock market or the investment environment in Malaysia.
The Japanese bond market is looking for some fresh blood to suck, since they themselves are in dire strait.
Both Taiwan and Japan are in trouble now. Whatever money from these two countries won't be here in the form of long-term investment.
What Malaysia needs right now are long-term money, and no one will put their money in Malaysia for the long term because the Malaysia government kept changing their rules on investment.
The flip-flop rule change the Malaysian government has done is not exactly something that entice the people with money to invest, you know?
>Naturally, the big boys from the Western countries, with all their highly paid >fund managers, have to have a good explanation as to why they lost money to >their US and European clients. :) >If we talk about foreign fund managers, namely the Westerns, then it would >probably be correct to say there was no confidence in South East Asia, not >only Malaysia.
Wrong !!
Money still flows into Singapore. And in case you do not know where Singapore is located, please look at the map.
Money is flowing into Thailand and the Philippines as well. And you better check the map and see where these two countries are located.
The only "no confidence" countries are Malaysia, Cambodia and Indonesia.
>The guys who took money out are mainly those in the stock market, and short >term funds.
There are people who physically take their money out. There are people who sell off their shares, and then there are those who cut off their ties with Malaysian businesses because they don't want the hassle no more.
And most of those people are not in the stock market or any short-term funds.
>Companies like Intel, Motorola, Hewlett Packard, etc. may have repartriated >their profits given the weakening Ringgit. Wouldn't you ? It's a business >transaction. But they may not necessarily have totally lost confidence in >Malaysia, and certainly have not closed down their factories. :)
You do not close down your factory overnight, unless you are bankrupted, and Intel, Motorola, HP, Seagate are not bankrupted.
The difference between the stock market people and MNC is the action of the stock market funds can be seen (ie, they pull their money out), but the MNC action will not be detected until it is too late (ie, they do not upgrade and/or retool the factories they have in Malaysia and when it comes the time to change production lines, they simply close down the factories that are obsolte, and the Malaysian factories owned by many MNCs are getting obsolete by the day !!!)
>Can anyone shed light as to whether there is any expansion in investments by >these biggies, to take advantage of our weakened Ringgit ?
In a sentence --- There is _NO_ new investment from those biggies, despite the obviously CHEAPER operation cost (labor, material, etc) in Malaysia.
No new investment means no factory upgrades, and when existing product lines are being phased off, the factories will be closed down.
>I mean real money flowing in, in the last few months, and not just submission of >documents to Government. :)
The only money flowing in in the industrial sense is the petrochemical field. Other than that, no new money flows into Malaysia.
>As for the foreign fund managers, it was a terrible time to invest in stock >market, and the stock market funds were withdrawing, causing the problems >to worsen. To me, that was the situation. No matter what the Gvernment say >or do at that time, their minds were fixed. Their money were leaving the South >East Asian region. How can anyone solve a problem like that ?
Let the market be open. When you have an open market, money that flows out will flows back in. Malaysia took a different approach --- Malaysia closed the barn doors AFTER the cows left, and when the cows wanting to get back in, the barn doors are closed.
So how can money be flowing back into Malaysia?
>>Well, my friend Michael taught me that we are not bankrupt because we >>hae positive Balance of Trade figures. (The whole world needs our palm oil, >>despite what US soya growers would like us to believe).
Positive balance of trade figures is but one aspect out of the MANY things we need to look.
And the so-called positive trade figures Malaysia is having will not last long --- for Malaysia hasn't been importing machineries that are necessary to upgrade the industrial fields, and when that happened, the "positive" figures will be wiped out.
And Malaysia can NOT compete with the rest of the world without importing technologies from the outside.
Aside from that, the palm oil industry will have much difficulties in regaining their position, for three reasons ---
1. Competititions from other oils (soybean) will lower palm oil prices. And the competition will last for at least 6 to 9 more months.
2. Many other countries are strating palm oil plantations. And when their trees start to produce palm kernels, Malaysia's palm oil industry will face tough competition from those countries.
3. The current palm oil production in Malaysia continues, and since the demand for palm oil is shrinking, there are a lot of palm oil being stockpiled. The stock-piled palm oil will depress the price for the palm oil for at least 3 more months _AFTER_ the soybean competition.
Taking item 1 and 3, the palm oil industry in Malaysia will see a depressed price for the next 9 - 12 months.
And if we add in item 2, by sometime next year, a lot of palm trees in Indonesia, South America and Africa will start to produce palm kernels, and when that happen, Malaysia can no longer demand high prices for the "buatan Malaysia" palm-oil products.
In other words, the goose that has been laying golden eggs for Malaysia may not lay golden eggs anymore.
>Yes, Malaysia is a blessed country. It has such a vast amount of resources, >including skilled human resources. If we can use these resources well, we can >really be a great country.
Skilled human resource is not a static resource. Skills have to be retrained and upgraded, and Malaysia is not doing enough to retrain its workforce.
Plus, the RACIST POLICIES in Malaysia are putting a lot of hindrance in tapping the full potential of Malaysian human resouces.
Braindrain and brain-retardation are the two killers of Malaysia's human resources.
>The point is, the doomsayers were wrong in saying that we would need to >succumb to the IMF in 6 months from the time we imposed the capital >controls. The 6 months will be up in March 1999. :)
Oh well.... don't say things so fast.
Wait till year 2001 or 2002, and we will see Thailand, Korea and the Philippines tapping into the next boom, while Malaysia be left behind because of the self-inflicted old wounds that are not fully healed.
>In fact, any foreign fund manager worth their salt, must start doing his >homework on Malaysia today.
Most of those fund managers are worth their salt. It's the Malaysians who are brainwashed by their government's propagandas who are not worth any salt.
>Not necessarily rush in to invest, but he should start tracking Malaysian stocks >and their management strategies and performance today, so that he can >comfortably and confidently make an investment decision tomorrow.
Malaysian's stocks are worthless because most Malaysian corporations are mismanged by morons who were "promoted" to the management circle because of a process known as "kulitfication".
Need I say more?
You think the foreign investors don't know what's happening in Malaysia?
You think the rest of the world are stupid?
>Do not worry my friends. As sure as a tiger will stark his prey vehemently at the >pungent smell of blood, so will the fund manager, when he smells the fragrant >scent of money to be made. However, as at today, it would be a hard sell to >his clients, mainly due to flock mentality.
You are right, in that the fund managers are tigers.
But you forget one thing --- the blood elsewhere in the world smells much better than those available in Malaysia, for Malaysia ain't the only place on this planet they can invest their money in.
>The Government has to curb currency speculation activities, which may >cause another crisis. There is no more such thing at present, which is a >reflection of the effectiveness of the capital controls.
You have been brainwashed, sir. Pity that most Malaysians are like you, that they always think that their government is right no matter what happened.
When and if you can regain your own objectivity, you will see that the world don't care what Malaysia does. Malaysia can go dig its own grave, but the
...
> KL blasts UN report on freedom of opinion > Accusations that freedom is being curtailed are baseless and > distorted, says minister
> KUALA LUMPUR -- Malaysia yesterday branded a United Nations report > which contended that freedom of opinion was systematically curtailed > here as "baseless and distorted".
> "I am shocked at the accusations. I consider them false and baseless," > Datuk Ibrahim Ali, Deputy Minister in the Prime Minister's Department > told AFP.
You should stop lying. Look what is happening now..
> He said the statement by UN special rapporteur Abid Hussain, who paid > a five-day visit to Malaysia in October, was not substantiated with > hard facts.
> "No doubt, we have the Internal Security Act, but it is not abused. It > is to ensure law and order in Malaysia's multiracial society," he > said.
It is not abused? I suppose what happened to Mr.Anwar was an accident, eh!!
> The core element of the law is detention without trial. It allows the > Minister of Home Affairs to order indefinite detention without charge > or trial of any person suspected of threatening national security.
There is no threat to national security. A lame excuse to frighten people into submission.
> Mr Abid had said in a report that freedom of opinion was > systematically curtailed in Malaysia, where the domestic press was > muzzled and demonstrators, arrested.
Very true.
> The charges were listed in a damning report only weeks after former > Deputy Premier Anwar Ibrahim was fired by Prime Minister Datuk Seri Dr > Mahathir Mohamad and subsequently arrested on charges of sexual > misconduct.
> The UN expert said he was "deeply concerned" at the extent to which > laws such as the ISA, the Sedition Act and the Printing and Presses > and Publication Act were used to suppress or repress expression and > curb peaceful assembly.
So malaysia admits there is communism and hence the emergency rule.
> He added that he had been told at least 126 people were arrested by > police in demonstrations on Sept 20 and 21 to protest against the > arrest of Anwar and his detention.
> Though most were later released, they are still being charged with > participating in an illegal assembly, which carries a maximum penalty > of up to six months in prison, said the report on civil and political > rights, including the question of freedom of expression.
> Responding to the charge, Datuk Ibrahim said that Malaysia could > ill-afford to practise "100 per cent democracy", as it could spark off > demonstrations and riots.
Give it a try. You can't fool the people all the time.
> "We do not want 100 per cent democracy because it could kill democracy > itself," he added.
> The minister, who oversees legal and judicial affairs in the > government, extended an invitation to Mr Abid to visit Malaysia again > to have an inside account of government policies.
> **************From Uncle Yap************** > The Malaysian News & Discussion Group > ===================================== > Read or subscribe to this group at http://www.eGroups.com/list/beritamalaysia/ > To subscribe by e-mail, send e-mail to > beritamalaysia-subscr...@egroups.com > To unsubscribe by e-mail, send e-mail to > beritamalaysia-unsubscr...@egroups.com
> Just The Malaysian News > ======================= > Please go to http://www.onelist.com/ > Click on Find a list > Type in bmalaysia in the search box > Click on bmalaysia > Click on Subscribe to this list > Register
> Once registered and subscribed, you will get the daily articles about > Malaysia delivered to your e-mail box
> >I went to my archive and found this article originally posted > >on 1st October 1998
> From SCMP, HK > 1st Oct 1998 > PM casts doubt on Anwar's injuries > BARRY PORTER in Kuala Lumpur
> Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad said yesterday Anwar > Ibrahim's injuries may have been self-inflicted to garner public > sympathy and not the result of a police beating as he claimed.
> But Anwar's wife, Wan Azizah Ismail, mocked the suggestion.
In article <36D78714.4...@pop.jaring.my>, ari...@pop.jaring.my wrote: > In my opinion, the major part of the damage was already done by year 1998. > With a few exceptions who are no longer able to continue their existing > survival, most of the bank debtors have already gone through their worst > period. Whether they can recover will depend on their managment capability > and balance of resources still available.
Most of the debts are not fully actualized yet.
And all the potential losts are not yet being tallied.
Don't speak of the "worst" so fast, because the _real_ worst is yet to be realized.
> I think I need to restate my earlier statement, to get the right perspective. Not > completely zero confidence by everyone. :) Based on my discussions with > various people (of course views can be distorted based on who you meet, and > who their contacts are), the Taiwanese are quite keen on Malaysia, both in > the stock market and investments in factories here. The Japanese bonds also > reflect some support, although the Japanese businessmen and fund managers > have their own set of headaches, sad to say.
The Taiwanese express their "keen-ness" because they need to park their money somewhere elses other than Taiwan, not because of the "attractiveness" of our stock market or the investment environment in Malaysia.
The Japanese bond market is looking for some fresh blood to suck, since they themselves are in dire strait.
Both Taiwan and Japan are in trouble now. Whatever money from these two countries won't be here in the form of long-term investment.
What Malaysia needs right now are long-term money, and no one will put their money in Malaysia for the long term because the Malaysia government kept changing their rules on investment.
The flip-flop rule change the Malaysian government has done is not exactly something that entice the people with money to invest, you know?
> Naturally, the big boys from the Western countries, with all their highly paid > fund managers, have to have a good explanation as to why they lost money to > their US and European clients. :) > If we talk about foreign fund managers, namely the Westerns, then it would > probably be correct to say there was no confidence in South East Asia, not > only Malaysia.
Wrong !!
Money still flows into Singapore. And in case you do not know where Singapore is located, please look at the map.
Money is flowing into Thailand and the Philippines as well. And you better check the map and see where these two countries are located.
The only "no confidence" countries are Malaysia, Cambodia and Indonesia.
> The guys who took money out are mainly those in the stock market, and short > term funds.
There are people who physically take their money out. There are people who sell off their shares, and then there are those who cut off their ties with Malaysian businesses because they don't want the hassle no more.
And most of those people are not in the stock market or any short-term funds.
> Companies like Intel, Motorola, Hewlett Packard, etc. may have repartriated > their profits given the weakening Ringgit. Wouldn't you ? It's a business > transaction. But they may not necessarily have totally lost confidence in > Malaysia, and certainly have not closed down their factories. :)
You do not close down your factory overnight, unless you are bankrupted, and Intel, Motorola, HP, Seagate are not bankrupted.
The difference between the stock market people and MNC is the action of the stock market funds can be seen (ie, they pull their money out), but the MNC action will not be detected until it is too late (ie, they do not upgrade and/or retool the factories they have in Malaysia and when it comes the time to change production lines, they simply close down the factories that are obsolte, and the Malaysian factories owned by many MNCs are getting obsolete by the day !!!)
> Can anyone shed light as to whether there is any expansion in investments by > these biggies, to take advantage of our weakened Ringgit ?
In a sentence --- There is _NO_ new investment from those biggies, despite the obviously CHEAPER operation cost (labor, material, etc) in Malaysia.
No new investment means no factory upgrades, and when existing product lines are being phased off, the factories will be closed down.
> I mean real money flowing in, in the last few months, and not just submission of > documents to Government. :)
The only money flowing in in the industrial sense is the petrochemical field. Other than that, no new money flows into Malaysia.
> As for the foreign fund managers, it was a terrible time to invest in stock > market, and the stock market funds were withdrawing, causing the problems > to worsen. To me, that was the situation. No matter what the Gvernment say > or do at that time, their minds were fixed. Their money were leaving the South > East Asian region. How can anyone solve a problem like that ?
Let the market be open. When you have an open market, money that flows out will flows back in. Malaysia took a different approach --- Malaysia closed the barn doors AFTER the cows left, and when the cows wanting to get back in, the barn doors are closed.
So how can money be flowing back into Malaysia?
> > Well, my friend Michael taught me that we are not bankrupt because we > > hae positive Balance of Trade figures. (The whole world needs our palm oil, > > despite what US soya growers would like us to believe).
Positive balance of trade figures is but one aspect out of the MANY things we need to look.
And the so-called positive trade figures Malaysia is having will not last long --- for Malaysia hasn't been importing machineries that are necessary to upgrade the industrial fields, and when that happened, the "positive" figures will be wiped out.
And Malaysia can NOT compete with the rest of the world without importing technologies from the outside.
Aside from that, the palm oil industry will have much difficulties in regaining their position, for three reasons ---
1. Competititions from other oils (soybean) will lower palm oil prices. And the competition will last for at least 6 to 9 more months.
2. Many other countries are strating palm oil plantations. And when their trees start to produce palm kernels, Malaysia's palm oil industry will face competition from those countries.
3. The current palm oil production in Malaysia continues, and since the demand for palm oil is shrinking, there are a lot of palm oil being stock-piled. The stock-piled palm oil will depress the price for the palm oil for at least 3 more months _AFTER_ the soybean competition.
Taking item 1 and 3, the palm oil industry in Malaysia will see a depressed price for the next 9 - 12 months.
And if we add in item 2, by sometime next year, a lot of palm trees in Indonesia, South America and Africa will start to produce palm kernels, and when that happen, Malaysia can no longer demand high prices for the "buatan Malaysia" palm-oil products.
In other words, the goose that has been laying golden eggs for Malaysia may not lay golden eggs anymore.
> Yes, Malaysia is a blessed country. It has such a vast amount of resources, > including skilled human resources. If we can use these resources well, we can > really be a great country.
Skilled human resource is not a static resource. Skills have to be retrained and upgraded, and Malaysia is not doing enough to retrain its workforce.
Plus, the RACIST POLICIES in Malaysia are putting a lot of hindrance in tapping the full potential of Malaysian human resouces.
Braindrain and brain-retardation are the two killers of Malaysia's human resources.
> The point is, the doomsayers were wrong in saying that we would need to > succumb to the IMF in 6 months from the time we imposed the capital > controls. The 6 months will be up in March 1999. :)
Oh well.... don't say things so fast.
Wait till year 2001 or 2002, and we will see Thailand, Korea and the Philippines tapping into the next boom, while Malaysia be left behind because of the self-inflicted old wounds that are not fully healed.
> In fact, any foreign fund manager worth their salt, must start doing his > homework on Malaysia today.
Most of those fund managers are worth their salt. It's the Malaysians who are brainwashed by their government's propagandas who are not worth any salt.
> Not necessarily rush in to invest, but he should start tracking Malaysian stocks > and their management strategies and performance today, so that he can > comfortably and confidently make an investment decision tomorrow.
Malaysian's stocks are worthless because most Malaysian corporations are mismanged by morons who were "promoted" to the management circle because of a process known as "kulitfication".
Need I say more?
You think the foreign investors don't know what's happening in Malaysia?
You think the rest of the world are stupid?
> Do not worry my friends. As sure as a tiger will stark his prey vehemently at the > pungent smell of blood, so will the fund manager, when he smells the fragrant > scent of money to be made. However, as at today, it would be a hard sell to > his clients, mainly due to flock mentality.
You are right, in that the fund managers are tigers.
But you forget one thing --- the blood elsewhere in the world smells much better than those available in Malaysia, for Malaysia ain't the only place on this planet they can invest their money in.
> The Government has to curb currency speculation activities, which may > cause another crisis. There is no more such thing at present, which is a > reflection of the effectiveness of the capital controls.
You have been brainwashed, sir. Pity that most Malaysians are like you, that they always think that their government is right no matter what happened.
When and if you can regain your own objectivity, you will see that the world don't care what Malaysia does. Malaysia can go dig
...
