Since last try to build Jaluino v1.0 ( http://jallib.blogspot.com/2009/08/building-jaluino-v10.html), I've been thinking a lot about what could be improved and added. Here's a list of point I think it can be nice to have, though I understand not all may be doable in a homebrew version. Anyway they will be here as a reminder...
- I²C: current version isn't I²C enabled. That would be really great to have this. There are different options I can think, depending on how the PCB can get complex:
2. Two resistors, with jumpers to select whether you want to i2c enabled or not. No connector, SDA/SCL still usable via connectors.
3. Two resistors. Either you solder them, either not, whether you want I2C or not (but switching master/slave will be a pain...)
4. Last option, two resistors to solder or not, and the i2c connector.
- Being able to use 3.3V power source. I know it adds another part and use lots of precious space, but it might possible since there are some space at the bottom. Should 3.3V be produced by jack power, USB or serial source, or just jack and USB ?
- last point, and the most important IMO, increase the space between upper and bottom shield connectors. Using your measurement file, this is "16 pitch = 40.64 mm" (note I measure ~40.18mm, am I wrong ?). I think it's way too narrow, because you can't even put a mini-breadboard between them. As you said in a previous mail, if we want to have this intermediate shield, distance has to be different from Arduino (or the shield will be hard to create). What do you think about a distance a little bit bigger than Arduino. For Arduino, I measure ~49mm, what about something like 55mm ? Power connector on the left can remain uncentered IMO.
I wish I could help with the PCB, like moving these connectors, but I don't have Orcad and don't know how to use it (I may give a try with the demo version if it's not too limited).
> Since last try to build Jaluino v1.0 (
> http://jallib.blogspot.com/2009/08/building-jaluino-v10.html), I've been
> thinking a lot about what could be improved and added. Here's a list of
> point I think it can be nice to have, though I understand not all may be
> doable in a homebrew version. Anyway they will be here as a reminder...
> - I²C: current version isn't I²C enabled. That would be really great to
> have this. There are different options I can think, depending on how the PCB
> can get complex:
Depends what are you thinking. USB PIC's are not pin to pin compatible with
old 5V PICs. 3.3V PICs are almost compatible with old 5V PICs with minor
differences (+2.5V internal supply pin). If you need an universal device,
focuse on what PIC is better/cheaper for you. I do not understand why don't
you keep Ithe 2C enabled permanently and check if something is received. If
not, disable it automatically (if that is usefull for something...)
2. Two resistors, with jumpers to select whether you want to i2c enabled
> or not. No connector, SDA/SCL still usable via connectors.
> 3. Two resistors. Either you solder them, either not, whether you want
> I2C or not (but switching master/slave will be a pain...)
> 4. Last option, two resistors to solder or not, and the i2c connector.
> - Being able to use 3.3V power source. I know it adds another part and
> use lots of precious space, but it might possible since there are some space
> at the bottom. Should 3.3V be produced by jack power, USB or serial source,
> or just jack and USB ?
You can use a cheap 3.3V LDO as BA033 from Rohm, cheap and stable. Input
voltage either USB or jack power.
- last point, and the most important IMO, increase the space between upper
> and bottom shield connectors. Using your measurement file, this is "16 pitch
> = 40.64 mm" (note I measure ~40.18mm, am I wrong ?). I think it's way too
> narrow, because you can't even put a mini-breadboard between them. As you
> said in a previous mail, if we want to have this intermediate shield,
> distance has to be different from Arduino (or the shield will be hard to
> create). What do you think about a distance a little bit bigger than
> Arduino. For Arduino, I measure ~49mm, what about something like 55mm ?
> Power connector on the left can remain uncentered IMO.
> I wish I could help with the PCB, like moving these connectors, but I don't
> have Orcad and don't know how to use it (I may give a try with the demo
> version if it's not too limited).
I strongly suggest to move on SMD design (cheapper/smaller/proffesional).
When you'll have near 50 (as I'm going to...) you'll go back to DIP because
of glasses...
> Since last try to build Jaluino v1.0 (http://jallib.blogspot.com/2009/08/building-jaluino-v10.html), I've been
> thinking a lot about what could be improved and added. Here's a list of
> point I think it can be nice to have, though I understand not all may be
> doable in a homebrew version. Anyway they will be here as a reminder...
> - I²C: current version isn't I²C enabled. That would be really great to
> have this. There are different options I can think, depending on how the PCB
> can get complex:
> 2. Two resistors, with jumpers to select whether you want to i2c enabled
> or not. No connector, SDA/SCL still usable via connectors.
> 3. Two resistors. Either you solder them, either not, whether you want
> I2C or not (but switching master/slave will be a pain...)
> 4. Last option, two resistors to solder or not, and the i2c connector.
> - Being able to use 3.3V power source. I know it adds another part and use
> lots of precious space, but it might possible since there are some space at
> the bottom. Should 3.3V be produced by jack power, USB or serial source, or
> just jack and USB ?
Do you mean selection between 5V and 3.3V or add 3.3V ?
> - last point, and the most important IMO, increase the space between upper
> and bottom shield connectors. Using your measurement file, this is "16 pitch
> 40.64 mm" (note I measure ~40.18mm, am I wrong ?).
Yes, it should be 40.64, maybe your printer did not print exactly 1:1
or a small slip off the drill :-)
> I think it's way too
> narrow, because you can't even put a mini-breadboard between them. As you
> said in a previous mail, if we want to have this intermediate shield,
> distance has to be different from Arduino (or the shield will be hard to
> create). What do you think about a distance a little bit bigger than
> Arduino. For Arduino, I measure ~49mm, what about something like 55mm ?
> Power connector on the left can remain uncentered IMO.
Thank you :-)
> I wish I could help with the PCB, like moving these connectors, but I don't
> have Orcad and don't know how to use it (I may give a try with the demo
don’t worry it is already finished.
1 distance is now 55,88mm (22 pitch)
2 add i2c plus connector like Joeps idea but without the Vin
I hope you are not to attached to the via’s (wire bridges), because I
managed to remove one, so only 2 left ;-).
3.3V will be added as soon as i know wat you want with it,.
you can find the files in de file section, please check so i can
change together with adding 3.3V power option (hopefully without to
many via’s)
> > - Being able to use 3.3V power source. I know it adds another part and > use > > lots of precious space, but it might possible since there are some space > at > > the bottom. Should 3.3V be produced by jack power, USB or serial source, > or > > just jack and USB ?
> Do you mean selection between 5V and 3.3V or add 3.3V ?
I mean add 3.3V, so you can use part with that voltage easily (original Arduino takes 5V and 3.3V from FTDI chip). I don't know what option is the best, maybe Vasile's suggestion about a "3.3V LDO as BA033 from Rohm" is nice. I'll let you decide ;)
> > - last point, and the most important IMO, increase the space between > upper > > and bottom shield connectors. Using your measurement file, this is "16 > pitch > > 40.64 mm" (note I measure ~40.18mm, am I wrong ?).
> Yes, it should be 40.64, maybe your printer did not print exactly 1:1 > or a small slip off the drill :-)
> > I think it's way too > > narrow, because you can't even put a mini-breadboard between them. As you > > said in a previous mail, if we want to have this intermediate shield, > > distance has to be different from Arduino (or the shield will be hard to > > create). What do you think about a distance a little bit bigger than > > Arduino. For Arduino, I measure ~49mm, what about something like 55mm ? > > Power connector on the left can remain uncentered IMO.
> Thank you :-)
> > I wish I could help with the PCB, like moving these connectors, but I > don't > > have Orcad and don't know how to use it (I may give a try with the demo
> don’t worry it is already finished.
OK!
> 1 distance is now 55,88mm (22 pitch) > 2 add i2c plus connector like Joeps idea but without the Vin > I hope you are not to attached to the via’s (wire bridges), because I > managed to remove one, so only 2 left ;-).
Awesome :)
> 3.3V will be added as soon as i know wat you want with it,.
OK, great
> you can find the files in de file section, please check so i can > change together with adding 3.3V power option (hopefully without to > many via’s)
OK I had a look but I have few time right now so I'll check deeply later, but it looks very nice. I'm afraid I won't be able to build a new one this WE, no laser printer, and, worst, no more copper board...
> > Do you mean selection between 5V and 3.3V or add 3.3V ?
> I mean add 3.3V, so you can use part with that voltage easily (original
> Arduino takes 5V and 3.3V from FTDI chip). I don't know what option is the
> best, maybe Vasile's suggestion about a "3.3V LDO as BA033 from Rohm" is
> nice. I'll let you decide ;)
Creating the 3.3V is no problem but should it only go to the spare pin
on the power connector or also go to the 18F4550 so selectable 5V or
3.3V power on the 18f4550 ?
Or maybe all the 5V on the main board (after the fuse) selectable
between 5V and 3.3V and only let 5V go to the serial connector.
> My mistake, I measured wrong...
How is that possible, in paris you have the exact Meter in Bureau
International des Poids et Mesures in Parijs thus so close to your
home :-).
> OK I had a look but I have few time right now so I'll check deeply later,
> but it looks very nice. I'm afraid I won't be able to build a new one this
> WE, no laser printer, and, worst, no more copper board...
No problem, lets wait until we are totally satisfied with the board so
no changes needing anymore.
I then will finish BOM and making a new shield base
You can have situations when you need 3.3V on your shield for a SD/MMC
card or other peripherals... You can have the regulator on shield but
is better (and cheaper) to have it on motherboard.
I think is enough for power connector.
On Aug 28, 11:00 pm, Richard <richa...@hetnet.nl> wrote:
> > > Do you mean selection between 5V and 3.3V or add 3.3V ?
> > I mean add 3.3V, so you can use part with that voltage easily (original
> > Arduino takes 5V and 3.3V from FTDI chip). I don't know what option is the
> > best, maybe Vasile's suggestion about a "3.3V LDO as BA033 from Rohm" is
> > nice. I'll let you decide ;)
> Creating the 3.3V is no problem but should it only go to the spare pin
> on the power connector or also go to the 18F4550 so selectable 5V or
> 3.3V power on the 18f4550 ?
> Or maybe all the 5V on the main board (after the fuse) selectable
> between 5V and 3.3V and only let 5V go to the serial connector.
> > My mistake, I measured wrong...
> How is that possible, in paris you have the exact Meter in Bureau
> International des Poids et Mesures in Parijs thus so close to your
> home :-).
> > OK I had a look but I have few time right now so I'll check deeply later,
> > but it looks very nice. I'm afraid I won't be able to build a new one this
> > WE, no laser printer, and, worst, no more copper board...
> No problem, lets wait until we are totally satisfied with the board so
> no changes needing anymore.
> I then will finish BOM and making a new shield base
> > Thanks for this !
> You’re welcome, and thanks for the fast feedback.
Creating the 3.3V is no problem but should it only go to the spare pin
> on the power connector or also go to the 18F4550 so selectable 5V or > 3.3V power on the 18f4550 ?
Yes, let's put 3.3V on the spare pin of power connector (I think it's where it was originally designed to). As for powering 18F4550, I guess 5V is enough. I have a LF version which can go far lower than 3.3V, but it's another topic and quite advanced feature.
> Or maybe all the 5V on the main board (after the fuse) selectable > between 5V and 3.3V and only let 5V go to the serial connector.
Is it complicated to do this ? Does it worth it ? Can it be postpone on a next version without much changes if it becomes very important ? And maybe some serial connectors can use 3.3V. too I guess there are many options we can't cover. For now, we can stay on 3.3V on spare pin, for shields, and let the PIC be powered with 5V
> > My mistake, I measured wrong...
> How is that possible, in paris you have the exact Meter in Bureau > International des Poids et Mesures in Parijs thus so close to your > home :-).
Yes, but probably my eyes weren't so close to my orbits...
> Creating the 3.3V is no problem but should it only go to the spare pin
> > on the power connector or also go to the 18F4550 so selectable 5V or
> > 3.3V power on the 18f4550 ?
> Yes, let's put 3.3V on the spare pin of power connector (I think it's where
> it was originally designed to). As for powering 18F4550, I guess 5V is
> enough. I have a LF version which can go far lower than 3.3V, but it's
> another topic and quite advanced feature.
> > Or maybe all the 5V on the main board (after the fuse) selectable
> > between 5V and 3.3V and only let 5V go to the serial connector.
> Is it complicated to do this ? Does it worth it ? Can it be postpone on a
it is not complicated to do.
> next version without much changes if it becomes very important ? And maybe
> some serial connectors can use 3.3V. too I guess there are many options we
It is no problem to make al the 5V selectable between 5 and 3,3V and
to keep the serial connector at 5V all the time.
> can't cover. For now, we can stay on 3.3V on spare pin, for shields, and let
> the PIC be powered with 5V
> > > Or maybe all the 5V on the main board (after the fuse) selectable > > > between 5V and 3.3V and only let 5V go to the serial connector.
> > Is it complicated to do this ? Does it worth it ? Can it be postpone on a
> it is not complicated to do.
> > next version without much changes if it becomes very important ? And > maybe > > some serial connectors can use 3.3V. too I guess there are many options > we
> It is no problem to make al the 5V selectable between 5 and 3,3V and > to keep the serial connector at 5V all the time.
OK
> > can't cover. For now, we can stay on 3.3V on spare pin, for shields, and > let > > the PIC be powered with 5V
> OK i will change this in a few days
Great ! Do you have an idea about which parts you'll use for 3.3V regulation ? If so, could you tell me so I can order some, and build the board as soon as I can ?
Ok, I will only add 3.3V to spare pin of the power connector, but am
afraid i will at least need to add 1 via and maybe more :-(.
any LDO fixed output 3.3V TO220 with pin connection, Input Gnd Output
will do see below
- NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR - LM3940IT-3.3/NOPB - V REG, LINEAR, 3.3V
TO220 see www.Farnell.com artnr: 1469106 IGO
- STMICROELECTRONICS - LF33ABV - V REG LDO +3.3V, TO-220-3 see www.Farnell.com artnr: 1087184 IGO
- NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR - LM2937ET-3.3 - V REG LDO 0.5A +3.3V, 2937,
TO220 see www.Farnell.com artnr: 8207305 IGO
> Ok, I will only add 3.3V to spare pin of the power connector, but am > afraid i will at least need to add 1 via and maybe more :-(.
Do you mean it would be simpler if you put 3.3V selection and all the whistles about 3.3V ?... :)
> any LDO fixed output 3.3V TO220 with pin connection, Input Gnd Output > will do see below
> - NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR - LM3940IT-3.3/NOPB - V REG, LINEAR, 3.3V > TO220 see www.Farnell.com artnr: 1469106 IGO > - STMICROELECTRONICS - LF33ABV - V REG LDO +3.3V, TO-220-3 see > www.Farnell.com > artnr: 1087184 IGO > - NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR - LM2937ET-3.3 - V REG LDO 0.5A +3.3V, 2937, > TO220 see www.Farnell.com artnr: 8207305 IGO
OK, I'll try to find one of these. I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to receive them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> > Ok, I will only add 3.3V to spare pin of the power connector, but am
> > afraid i will at least need to add 1 via and maybe more :-(.
> Do you mean it would be simpler if you put 3.3V selection and all the
> whistles about 3.3V ?... :)
> > any LDO fixed output 3.3V TO220 with pin connection, Input Gnd Output
> > will do see below
> > - NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR - LM3940IT-3.3/NOPB - V REG, LINEAR, 3.3V
> > TO220 seewww.Farnell.comartnr: 1469106 IGO
> > - STMICROELECTRONICS - LF33ABV - V REG LDO +3.3V, TO-220-3 see
> >www.Farnell.com > > artnr: 1087184 IGO
> > - NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR - LM2937ET-3.3 - V REG LDO 0.5A +3.3V, 2937,
> > TO220 seewww.Farnell.comartnr: 8207305 IGO
> OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to receive
> them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> > Ok, I will only add 3.3V to spare pin of the power connector, but am
> > afraid i will at least need to add 1 via and maybe more :-(.
> Do you mean it would be simpler if you put 3.3V selection and all the
> whistles about 3.3V ?... :)
Well, it is quit simple to make +5V selectable between 3.3V and 5V
because the traces don’t need to be changed so except for serial
connector (this better stay on 5V) all +5V when selected on 3.3V will
become 3.3V so on power connector that +5V will also become 3.3V
(spare stays unconnected).
above is easier but if you want the main board on 5V and need only
3.3V for the shield (and off course dealing with the voltage level
adjustments on the shield) this would be impossible.
But every time when you need 3.3V on a shield you also want to power
your main board with 3.3V so that you don’t have to deal with voltage
level adjustments, well than it is the easiest way.
In my opinion is 3.3V on the spare pin of the power connector AND 5V
selectable between 3.3V and 5V the most flexible option (but off
course also the most impact on the pcb)
> OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to receive
> them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
Lets hope the next one will be the final one for Jaluino Medium
homebrew
I can't guess which is the most used, which make more sens:
1. 3.3V/5V selection for board and shield, or
2. 5V on board and 3.3V shield with voltage adjustments...
If we follow Arduino design, I think (but I'm not sure it is the same on all
*duino flavors) it corresponds to just 3.3V on spare pin, that is option 2.
> > OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> > I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to
receive
> > them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> Lets hope the next one will be the final one for Jaluino Medium
> homebrew
Don't worry for me about building many boards, I expected this, and this is
a mandatory and very important step. (and I need to see it for real to
figure out what should be modified, etc...)
> > > Ok, I will only add 3.3V to spare pin of the power connector, but am
> > > afraid i will at least need to add 1 via and maybe more :-(.
> > Do you mean it would be simpler if you put 3.3V selection and all the
> > whistles about 3.3V ?... :)
> Well, it is quit simple to make +5V selectable between 3.3V and 5V
> because the traces don’t need to be changed so except for serial
> connector (this better stay on 5V) all +5V when selected on 3.3V will
> become 3.3V so on power connector that +5V will also become 3.3V
> (spare stays unconnected).
> above is easier but if you want the main board on 5V and need only
> 3.3V for the shield (and off course dealing with the voltage level
> adjustments on the shield) this would be impossible.
> But every time when you need 3.3V on a shield you also want to power
> your main board with 3.3V so that you don’t have to deal with voltage
> level adjustments, well than it is the easiest way.
> In my opinion is 3.3V on the spare pin of the power connector AND 5V
> selectable between 3.3V and 5V the most flexible option (but off
> course also the most impact on the pcb)
> > OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> > I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to
> receive
> > them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> Lets hope the next one will be the final one for Jaluino Medium
> homebrew
You're right, I never think about free samples... The only time I used them
was for Microchip, and after that (hoping not being the cause) they give up
about providing free samples on France, using their website...
> why don't you ask free samples on the NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR website?
> Regards,
> Enzo
> On 30 août, 22:57, Sebastien Lelong <sebastien.lel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Richard,
> > > Ok, I will only add 3.3V to spare pin of the power connector, but am
> > > afraid i will at least need to add 1 via and maybe more :-(.
> > Do you mean it would be simpler if you put 3.3V selection and all the
> > whistles about 3.3V ?... :)
> > > any LDO fixed output 3.3V TO220 with pin connection, Input Gnd Output
> > > will do see below
> > > - NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR - LM3940IT-3.3/NOPB - V REG, LINEAR, 3.3V
> > > TO220 seewww.Farnell.comartnr: 1469106 IGO
> > > - STMICROELECTRONICS - LF33ABV - V REG LDO +3.3V, TO-220-3 see
> > >www.Farnell.com > > > artnr: 1087184 IGO
> > > - NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR - LM2937ET-3.3 - V REG LDO 0.5A +3.3V, 2937,
> > > TO220 seewww.Farnell.comartnr: 8207305 IGO
> > OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> > I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to
> receive
> > them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
I looked again on Arduino site at their hardware specifications
starting from Nano, Diecimila to Duemilanove and Mega. All boards are
using the 5V source for powering the microcontroller and the board. If
an external source is lower than 7V can cause board instability.
The 3.3V power is provided by FTDI and can draw a maximum of 50mA. Is
provided for shield and is fragile in my opinion.
Jaluino can have a more powerful regulator. Having a 3.3V source
available for shield is a good option (very handy).
But, if others can't easily find a 3.3V voltage regulator, the board
still can be built and used because 3.3V is only for shield use (if
required - it can be soldered later). Anybody can find a 7805 5V
regulator.
My opinion...
Regards,
Vasi
On Aug 31, 10:13 pm, Sebastien Lelong <sebastien.lel...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I can't guess which is the most used, which make more sens:
> 1. 3.3V/5V selection for board and shield, or
> 2. 5V on board and 3.3V shield with voltage adjustments...
> If we follow Arduino design, I think (but I'm not sure it is the same on all
> *duino flavors) it corresponds to just 3.3V on spare pin, that is option 2.
> > > OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> > > I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to
> receive
> > > them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> > Lets hope the next one will be the final one for Jaluino Medium
> > homebrew
> Don't worry for me about building many boards, I expected this, and this is
> a mandatory and very important step. (and I need to see it for real to
> figure out what should be modified, etc...)
> > > > Ok, I will only add 3.3V to spare pin of the power connector, but am
> > > > afraid i will at least need to add 1 via and maybe more :-(.
> > > Do you mean it would be simpler if you put 3.3V selection and all the
> > > whistles about 3.3V ?... :)
> > Well, it is quit simple to make +5V selectable between 3.3V and 5V
> > because the traces don’t need to be changed so except for serial
> > connector (this better stay on 5V) all +5V when selected on 3.3V will
> > become 3.3V so on power connector that +5V will also become 3.3V
> > (spare stays unconnected).
> > above is easier but if you want the main board on 5V and need only
> > 3.3V for the shield (and off course dealing with the voltage level
> > adjustments on the shield) this would be impossible.
> > But every time when you need 3.3V on a shield you also want to power
> > your main board with 3.3V so that you don’t have to deal with voltage
> > level adjustments, well than it is the easiest way.
> > In my opinion is 3.3V on the spare pin of the power connector AND 5V
> > selectable between 3.3V and 5V the most flexible option (but off
> > course also the most impact on the pcb)
> > > OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> > > I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to
> > receive
> > > them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> > Lets hope the next one will be the final one for Jaluino Medium
> > homebrew
----- Original Message ----- From: "funlw65" <funl...@gmail.com>
To: "jallib" <jallib@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:13 PM
Subject: [jallib] Re: Jaluino next version: what could be added/improved
Hi Sebastien,
I looked again on Arduino site at their hardware specifications
starting from Nano, Diecimila to Duemilanove and Mega. All boards are
using the 5V source for powering the microcontroller and the board. If
an external source is lower than 7V can cause board instability.
The 3.3V power is provided by FTDI and can draw a maximum of 50mA. Is
provided for shield and is fragile in my opinion.
Jaluino can have a more powerful regulator. Having a 3.3V source
available for shield is a good option (very handy).
But, if others can't easily find a 3.3V voltage regulator, the board
still can be built and used because 3.3V is only for shield use (if
required - it can be soldered later). Anybody can find a 7805 5V
regulator.
My opinion...
Regards,
Vasi
On Aug 31, 10:13pm, Sebastien Lelong <sebastien.lel...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Richard,
> I can't guess which is the most used, which make more sens:
> 1. 3.3V/5V selection for board and shield, or
> 2. 5V on board and 3.3V shield with voltage adjustments...
> If we follow Arduino design, I think (but I'm not sure it is the same on > all
> *duino flavors) it corresponds to just 3.3V on spare pin, that is option > 2.
> > > OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> > > I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to
> receive
> > > them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> > Lets hope the next one will be the final one for Jaluino Medium
> > homebrew
> Don't worry for me about building many boards, I expected this, and this > is
> a mandatory and very important step. (and I need to see it for real to
> figure out what should be modified, etc...)
> > > > Ok, I will only add 3.3V to spare pin of the power connector, but am
> > > > afraid i will at least need to add 1 via and maybe more :-(.
> > > Do you mean it would be simpler if you put 3.3V selection and all the
> > > whistles about 3.3V ?... :)
> > Well, it is quit simple to make +5V selectable between 3.3V and 5V
> > because the traces dont need to be changed so except for serial
> > connector (this better stay on 5V) all +5V when selected on 3.3V will
> > become 3.3V so on power connector that +5V will also become 3.3V
> > (spare stays unconnected).
> > above is easier but if you want the main board on 5V and need only
> > 3.3V for the shield (and off course dealing with the voltage level
> > adjustments on the shield) this would be impossible.
> > But every time when you need 3.3V on a shield you also want to power
> > your main board with 3.3V so that you dont have to deal with voltage
> > level adjustments, well than it is the easiest way.
> > In my opinion is 3.3V on the spare pin of the power connector AND 5V
> > selectable between 3.3V and 5V the most flexible option (but off
> > course also the most impact on the pcb)
> > > OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> > > I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to
> > receive
> > > them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> > Lets hope the next one will be the final one for Jaluino Medium
> > homebrew
I've seen this option using LM317 on National Semiconductor site (where I
tried to get free sample, with product & shipping fees, strange "free"
definition...). It requires more parts (meaning more space), maybe Richard
you can check this if you too think it's a good option. LM3940 is hard to
find (almost nothing on eBay), it's also quite an expensive part: 1.67€
compared to 1.12€ for LM317 (farnell). On eBay, you can get 20pcs for 9$
including shipping fees (
http://cgi.ebay.fr/20pcs-LM317-Voltage-Regulator-TO-220-1-2V-TO-37V-1...)
or 5pcs for 3€ including shipping fees from a professional vendor (
http://cgi.ebay.fr/Lot-de-5-regulateurs-variables-LM317-LM317T_W0QQit... ).
Availability and price are also important criteria...
> If the 3.3 volt regulator is hard to find, why not design it with the good
> old LM317 and two resistors?
> Albert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "funlw65" <funl...@gmail.com>
> To: "jallib" <jallib@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:13 PM
> Subject: [jallib] Re: Jaluino next version: what could be added/improved
> Hi Sebastien,
> I looked again on Arduino site at their hardware specifications
> starting from Nano, Diecimila to Duemilanove and Mega. All boards are
> using the 5V source for powering the microcontroller and the board. If
> an external source is lower than 7V can cause board instability.
> The 3.3V power is provided by FTDI and can draw a maximum of 50mA. Is
> provided for shield and is fragile in my opinion.
> Jaluino can have a more powerful regulator. Having a 3.3V source
> available for shield is a good option (very handy).
> But, if others can't easily find a 3.3V voltage regulator, the board
> still can be built and used because 3.3V is only for shield use (if
> required - it can be soldered later). Anybody can find a 7805 5V
> regulator.
> My opinion...
> Regards,
> Vasi
> On Aug 31, 10:13pm, Sebastien Lelong <sebastien.lel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Richard,
> > I can't guess which is the most used, which make more sens:
> > 1. 3.3V/5V selection for board and shield, or
> > 2. 5V on board and 3.3V shield with voltage adjustments...
> > If we follow Arduino design, I think (but I'm not sure it is the same on
> > all
> > *duino flavors) it corresponds to just 3.3V on spare pin, that is option
> > 2.
> > > > OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> > > > I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to
> > receive
> > > > them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> > > Lets hope the next one will be the final one for Jaluino Medium
> > > homebrew
> > Don't worry for me about building many boards, I expected this, and this
> > is
> > a mandatory and very important step. (and I need to see it for real to
> > figure out what should be modified, etc...)
> > > > > Ok, I will only add 3.3V to spare pin of the power connector, but
> am
> > > > > afraid i will at least need to add 1 via and maybe more :-(.
> > > > Do you mean it would be simpler if you put 3.3V selection and all the
> > > > whistles about 3.3V ?... :)
> > > Well, it is quit simple to make +5V selectable between 3.3V and 5V
> > > because the traces dont need to be changed so except for serial
> > > connector (this better stay on 5V) all +5V when selected on 3.3V will
> > > become 3.3V so on power connector that +5V will also become 3.3V
> > > (spare stays unconnected).
> > > above is easier but if you want the main board on 5V and need only
> > > 3.3V for the shield (and off course dealing with the voltage level
> > > adjustments on the shield) this would be impossible.
> > > But every time when you need 3.3V on a shield you also want to power
> > > your main board with 3.3V so that you dont have to deal with voltage
> > > level adjustments, well than it is the easiest way.
> > > In my opinion is 3.3V on the spare pin of the power connector AND 5V
> > > selectable between 3.3V and 5V the most flexible option (but off
> > > course also the most impact on the pcb)
> > > > OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> > > > I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to
> > > receive
> > > > them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> > > Lets hope the next one will be the final one for Jaluino Medium
> > > homebrew
> If the 3.3 volt regulator is hard to find, why not design it with the good
> old LM317 and two resistors?
> Albert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "funlw65" <funl...@gmail.com>
> To: "jallib" <jallib@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:13 PM
> Subject: [jallib] Re: Jaluino next version: what could be added/improved
> Hi Sebastien,
> I looked again on Arduino site at their hardware specifications
> starting from Nano, Diecimila to Duemilanove and Mega. All boards are
> using the 5V source for powering the microcontroller and the board. If
> an external source is lower than 7V can cause board instability.
> The 3.3V power is provided by FTDI and can draw a maximum of 50mA. Is
> provided for shield and is fragile in my opinion.
> Jaluino can have a more powerful regulator. Having a 3.3V source
> available for shield is a good option (very handy).
> But, if others can't easily find a 3.3V voltage regulator, the board
> still can be built and used because 3.3V is only for shield use (if
> required - it can be soldered later). Anybody can find a 7805 5V
> regulator.
> My opinion...
> Regards,
> Vasi
> On Aug 31, 10:13pm, Sebastien Lelong <sebastien.lel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Richard,
> > I can't guess which is the most used, which make more sens:
> > 1. 3.3V/5V selection for board and shield, or
> > 2. 5V on board and 3.3V shield with voltage adjustments...
> > If we follow Arduino design, I think (but I'm not sure it is the same on
> > all
> > *duino flavors) it corresponds to just 3.3V on spare pin, that is option
> > 2.
> > > > OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> > > > I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to
> > receive
> > > > them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> > > Lets hope the next one will be the final one for Jaluino Medium
> > > homebrew
> > Don't worry for me about building many boards, I expected this, and this
> > is
> > a mandatory and very important step. (and I need to see it for real to
> > figure out what should be modified, etc...)
> > > > > Ok, I will only add 3.3V to spare pin of the power connector, but am
> > > > > afraid i will at least need to add 1 via and maybe more :-(.
> > > > Do you mean it would be simpler if you put 3.3V selection and all the
> > > > whistles about 3.3V ?... :)
> > > Well, it is quit simple to make +5V selectable between 3.3V and 5V
> > > because the traces dont need to be changed so except for serial
> > > connector (this better stay on 5V) all +5V when selected on 3.3V will
> > > become 3.3V so on power connector that +5V will also become 3.3V
> > > (spare stays unconnected).
> > > above is easier but if you want the main board on 5V and need only
> > > 3.3V for the shield (and off course dealing with the voltage level
> > > adjustments on the shield) this would be impossible.
> > > But every time when you need 3.3V on a shield you also want to power
> > > your main board with 3.3V so that you dont have to deal with voltage
> > > level adjustments, well than it is the easiest way.
> > > In my opinion is 3.3V on the spare pin of the power connector AND 5V
> > > selectable between 3.3V and 5V the most flexible option (but off
> > > course also the most impact on the pcb)
> > > > OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> > > > I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to
> > > receive
> > > > them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> > > Lets hope the next one will be the final one for Jaluino Medium
> > > homebrew
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Seb
> > > Greetz
> > > Richard- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
I hope you can find the LF33CV because implementing this one (or any
LDO with case TO220 and pinning: Input Ground Output) will be no
problem, don’t even have to add a via.
To give you an impression, I uploaded the new drawings in the file
section.
Don’t worry, if the LF33CV is not easy to get then I will change the
pcb to an other one.
> In our situation I would like to use a LDO because the dropout voltage
> of the LM317 can exceed the 1.7V (I >= 500mA Tamb < 25degree).
> What about the LM2937ET-3.3? or the LF33CV (seewww.rs-components.com > artnr: 355-4128)
> -Greetz
> Richard
> On 31 aug, 23:30, "a.faber" <a.fa...@chello.nl> wrote:
> > If the 3.3 volt regulator is hard to find, why not design it with the good
> > old LM317 and two resistors?
> > Albert
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "funlw65" <funl...@gmail.com>
> > To: "jallib" <jallib@googlegroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:13 PM
> > Subject: [jallib] Re: Jaluino next version: what could be added/improved
> > Hi Sebastien,
> > I looked again on Arduino site at their hardware specifications
> > starting from Nano, Diecimila to Duemilanove and Mega. All boards are
> > using the 5V source for powering the microcontroller and the board. If
> > an external source is lower than 7V can cause board instability.
> > The 3.3V power is provided by FTDI and can draw a maximum of 50mA. Is
> > provided for shield and is fragile in my opinion.
> > Jaluino can have a more powerful regulator. Having a 3.3V source
> > available for shield is a good option (very handy).
> > But, if others can't easily find a 3.3V voltage regulator, the board
> > still can be built and used because 3.3V is only for shield use (if
> > required - it can be soldered later). Anybody can find a 7805 5V
> > regulator.
> > My opinion...
> > Regards,
> > Vasi
> > On Aug 31, 10:13pm, Sebastien Lelong <sebastien.lel...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Hi Richard,
> > > I can't guess which is the most used, which make more sens:
> > > 1. 3.3V/5V selection for board and shield, or
> > > 2. 5V on board and 3.3V shield with voltage adjustments...
> > > If we follow Arduino design, I think (but I'm not sure it is the same on
> > > all
> > > *duino flavors) it corresponds to just 3.3V on spare pin, that is option
> > > 2.
> > > > > OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> > > > > I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to
> > > receive
> > > > > them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> > > > Lets hope the next one will be the final one for Jaluino Medium
> > > > homebrew
> > > Don't worry for me about building many boards, I expected this, and this
> > > is
> > > a mandatory and very important step. (and I need to see it for real to
> > > figure out what should be modified, etc...)
> > > > > > Ok, I will only add 3.3V to spare pin of the power connector, but am
> > > > > > afraid i will at least need to add 1 via and maybe more :-(.
> > > > > Do you mean it would be simpler if you put 3.3V selection and all the
> > > > > whistles about 3.3V ?... :)
> > > > Well, it is quit simple to make +5V selectable between 3.3V and 5V
> > > > because the traces dont need to be changed so except for serial
> > > > connector (this better stay on 5V) all +5V when selected on 3.3V will
> > > > become 3.3V so on power connector that +5V will also become 3.3V
> > > > (spare stays unconnected).
> > > > above is easier but if you want the main board on 5V and need only
> > > > 3.3V for the shield (and off course dealing with the voltage level
> > > > adjustments on the shield) this would be impossible.
> > > > But every time when you need 3.3V on a shield you also want to power
> > > > your main board with 3.3V so that you dont have to deal with voltage
> > > > level adjustments, well than it is the easiest way.
> > > > In my opinion is 3.3V on the spare pin of the power connector AND 5V
> > > > selectable between 3.3V and 5V the most flexible option (but off
> > > > course also the most impact on the pcb)
> > > > > OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> > > > > I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope to
> > > > receive
> > > > > them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> > > > Lets hope the next one will be the final one for Jaluino Medium
> > > > homebrew
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Seb
> > > > Greetz
> > > > Richard- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
> > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
Everything depends on the project status volume. For 100pcs an LDO of 1euro
is damn expensive.
At volume LDO (at 100pcs) must be in 0.15-0.2euro/pcs
If wrong choosed, 3.3V and 5V are an issue, you can see this after the first
100 programming times... when need to switch jumpers. No probnlem with one
hobby board.
Thermal dissipation on 3.3V could be also a problem. Imagine a communication
bus at 120mA (maybe you don't need it, like RS485) and a common unstabilised
power supply of 9V input (need 4V dropout on common/inexpensive 5V LDO). The
3V3 stab will dissipate 9V-3.3V =5.7V*0.12A = 0.7W
Size can be another problem if 10% of your board is occupied with a TO220
which is loaded with 1W.
For hobby it's good, but those hobby projects will be someday production
projects... I see this based on your complicated code.
> Hi Richard,
> Maybe use a LD1117, not too expensive 0.5..1 Euro, not too hard to
> find (local electronics shop) and available in TO220 housing (homebrew
> friendly_)
> On 1 sep, 11:04, Richard <richa...@hetnet.nl> wrote:
> > Hoi Seb and Albert,
> > In our situation I would like to use a LDO because the dropout voltage
> > of the LM317 can exceed the 1.7V (I >= 500mA Tamb < 25degree).
> > What about the LM2937ET-3.3? or the LF33CV (seewww.rs-components.com > > artnr: 355-4128)
> > -Greetz
> > Richard
> > On 31 aug, 23:30, "a.faber" <a.fa...@chello.nl> wrote:
> > > If the 3.3 volt regulator is hard to find, why not design it with the
> good
> > > old LM317 and two resistors?
> > > Albert
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "funlw65" <funl...@gmail.com>
> > > To: "jallib" <jallib@googlegroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:13 PM
> > > Subject: [jallib] Re: Jaluino next version: what could be
> added/improved
> > > Hi Sebastien,
> > > I looked again on Arduino site at their hardware specifications
> > > starting from Nano, Diecimila to Duemilanove and Mega. All boards are
> > > using the 5V source for powering the microcontroller and the board. If
> > > an external source is lower than 7V can cause board instability.
> > > The 3.3V power is provided by FTDI and can draw a maximum of 50mA. Is
> > > provided for shield and is fragile in my opinion.
> > > Jaluino can have a more powerful regulator. Having a 3.3V source
> > > available for shield is a good option (very handy).
> > > But, if others can't easily find a 3.3V voltage regulator, the board
> > > still can be built and used because 3.3V is only for shield use (if
> > > required - it can be soldered later). Anybody can find a 7805 5V
> > > regulator.
> > > My opinion...
> > > Regards,
> > > Vasi
> > > On Aug 31, 10:13pm, Sebastien Lelong <sebastien.lel...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi Richard,
> > > > I can't guess which is the most used, which make more sens:
> > > > 1. 3.3V/5V selection for board and shield, or
> > > > 2. 5V on board and 3.3V shield with voltage adjustments...
> > > > If we follow Arduino design, I think (but I'm not sure it is the same
> on
> > > > all
> > > > *duino flavors) it corresponds to just 3.3V on spare pin, that is
> option
> > > > 2.
> > > > > > OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> > > > > > I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope
> to
> > > > receive
> > > > > > them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> > > > > Lets hope the next one will be the final one for Jaluino Medium
> > > > > homebrew
> > > > Don't worry for me about building many boards, I expected this, and
> this
> > > > is
> > > > a mandatory and very important step. (and I need to see it for real
> to
> > > > figure out what should be modified, etc...)
> > > > > > > Ok, I will only add 3.3V to spare pin of the power connector,
> but am
> > > > > > > afraid i will at least need to add 1 via and maybe more :-(.
> > > > > > Do you mean it would be simpler if you put 3.3V selection and all
> the
> > > > > > whistles about 3.3V ?... :)
> > > > > Well, it is quit simple to make +5V selectable between 3.3V and 5V
> > > > > because the traces dont need to be changed so except for serial
> > > > > connector (this better stay on 5V) all +5V when selected on 3.3V
> will
> > > > > become 3.3V so on power connector that +5V will also become 3.3V
> > > > > (spare stays unconnected).
> > > > > above is easier but if you want the main board on 5V and need only
> > > > > 3.3V for the shield (and off course dealing with the voltage level
> > > > > adjustments on the shield) this would be impossible.
> > > > > But every time when you need 3.3V on a shield you also want to
> power
> > > > > your main board with 3.3V so that you dont have to deal with
> voltage
> > > > > level adjustments, well than it is the easiest way.
> > > > > In my opinion is 3.3V on the spare pin of the power connector AND
> 5V
> > > > > selectable between 3.3V and 5V the most flexible option (but off
> > > > > course also the most impact on the pcb)
> > > > > > OK, I'll try to find one of these.
> > > > > > I've ordered more copper clad boards & more stuff on eBay, I hope
> to
> > > > > receive
> > > > > > them this week so I can build this upcoming board next WE.
> > > > > Lets hope the next one will be the final one for Jaluino Medium
> > > > > homebrew
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Seb
> > > > > Greetz
> > > > > Richard- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
> > > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
> For hobby it's good, but those hobby projects will be someday production
As far as I understood, this board is targetted for the hobiiest (i.e. single sided boards, thru hole, easy to obtain components, not too expensive). If it becomes a success and a someone will create a (small) batch, I would redesign the board based on SMD components
> projects... I see this based on your complicated code.
On 1 sep, 20:15, vasile surducan <vsurdu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Everything depends on the project status volume. For 100pcs an LDO of 1euro
> is damn expensive.
> At volume LDO (at 100pcs) must be in 0.15-0.2euro/pcs
> If wrong choosed, 3.3V and 5V are an issue, you can see this after the first
> 100 programming times... when need to switch jumpers. No probnlem with one
> hobby board.
This is targeted for hobbiest, hoping that if it's a success, another
double sided pro board would be designed.
> Thermal dissipation on 3.3V could be also a problem. Imagine a communication
> bus at 120mA (maybe you don't need it, like RS485) and a common unstabilised
> power supply of 9V input (need 4V dropout on common/inexpensive 5V LDO). The
> 3V3 stab will dissipate 9V-3.3V =5.7V*0.12A = 0.7W
> Size can be another problem if 10% of your board is occupied with a TO220
> which is loaded with 1W.
Can't we get 3.3V out from 5V ? I've read most regulator accept at
least 4.75V as input.
> For hobby it's good, but those hobby projects will be someday production
> projects... I see this based on your complicated code.
Do you mean that our code is so good that it gets used in production
projects ? :)
